Comments for "Report: Obama believes automaker BK appears inevitable"
Nemo says:
Obviously, with the turn-around guy Wagoner gone, BK is now inevitable.
Nemo Tue Mar 31 20:18:55 2009 CDT #
sporkfed says:
uno
sporkfed Tue Mar 31 20:19:03 2009 CDT #
sporkfed says:
Damn you JS-kit!
sporkfed Tue Mar 31 20:20:07 2009 CDT #
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover says:
OB and gang will finish off GM. Their political goal is not a reality of business. Look at what they did and still are doing to F&F.
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover Tue Mar 31 20:21:31 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
This comment thread has been HALO-IZED by CRbot.
http://realize.org/cr/halokit.php?halourl=http://www.haloscan.com/comments/calculatedrisk/1476867703704956572
CRbot Tue Mar 31 20:21:45 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
I assume they want to do a airline style bankruptcy, and continue going. But still killing wages will not help consumption. Guess what we need to produce and consume.
Anonymous Tue Mar 31 20:22:29 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Exactly. Why is this so difficult for some to grasp? Without a manufacturing base producing things of utility and value, ie REAL WEALTH, the US will sink beneath the waves. Real wages have to increase for workers as a source for consumption NOT MORE CREDIT!
Parent Post
Anonymous Wed Apr 1 02:57:53 2009 CDT #
General Glut says:
So when will Obama have a similar ephiphany regarding Citibank and Bank of America???
I'm not holding my breath. Bring on TARP II!!
General Glut Tue Mar 31 20:22:57 2009 CDT #
Spunkmeyer says:
Walter spins in his grave.
Spunkmeyer Tue Mar 31 20:23:38 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Ford's toast.
Anonymous Tue Mar 31 20:24:29 2009 CDT #
Nemo says:
I mean, think about it: Wagoner is gone for just two days and suddenly the company is going bankrupt.
Nemo Tue Mar 31 20:24:35 2009 CDT #
monta\'s ankle says:
everything is inevitable, but always require greater taxpayer outlays to postpone the inevitable
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/31/opinion/31brooks.html
monta\'s ankle Tue Mar 31 20:26:01 2009 CDT #
Indy says:
What Brooks does not say is that this may also be true for AIG and the insolvent banks. i.e the bailout is postponing the inevitable at a greater cost. Doc. Krugman has mentioned that a few times, I believe :)
Parent Post
Indy Tue Mar 31 21:08:42 2009 CDT #
Nemo says:
Looking forward to my solar-powered flying Hummer.
And also this.
Nemo Tue Mar 31 20:26:33 2009 CDT #
dr munch says:
Good decision. Obama's first one.
dr munch Tue Mar 31 20:26:47 2009 CDT #
Steve Weston says:
Boy do I feel like an idiot. I told all my friends in 2007 that Chrysler would gone by the end of 2008. Missed it by 3 months. Still glad I made a bundle shorting their stock.
Steve Weston Tue Mar 31 20:27:00 2009 CDT #
lama says:
Jesus Chrysler
lama Tue Mar 31 20:27:04 2009 CDT #
Art Eclectic says:
My 2002 Chrysler Sebring continues to be a repair/maint disaster. Such beautifully styled cars, so poorly made. Shame, really. Worst thing they could have done was brought in Nardelli, a CEO who's only management strategy is cost cutting. Chrysler needed a car guy with a genuine compulsion towards excellence.
Art Eclectic Tue Mar 31 20:27:48 2009 CDT #
nova says:
Sales must be off the cliff. Dealers dead. Suppliers dead. I hope all the GM people who got a car voucher as part of their retirement find a nice frame for it.
nova Tue Mar 31 20:27:55 2009 CDT #
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover says:
With production world wide dropping many American imports will pull production back home. The loss of suppliers will hurt them badly. Steel will hurt and the Medical industry will hurt.
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover Tue Mar 31 20:28:24 2009 CDT #
Noble says:
It has been a colossal (read decades) lack of vision that has killed the Big 3. And paying double wages to unions what they should have been paying hasnt helped either. This has been a managed implosion. I'm glad that it has been managed. An unexpected bankruptcy would have been a fat tail. :)
Its high time to start over. Bring in an auto Steve Jobs and make cars people actually want to buy you morons. I'm waiting for my electric sports car. Now if only Obama can tell C, BAC, JPM and GS to get off the derivatives addiction and windup the 600T outstanding under a structured bankrutcy with goobermint guaranteeing all deposits - we'll be getting somewhere! HA!
Noble Tue Mar 31 20:28:32 2009 CDT #
iceman says:
I'm impressed if Obama lets Chrysler liquidate and GM go thru bankruptcy.
Maybe there's some hope for tough love for Wall St yet.
iceman Tue Mar 31 20:30:21 2009 CDT #
Fist Shaker says:
Obama's legacy: the man who killed the auto industry in America.
Fist Shaker Tue Mar 31 20:31:43 2009 CDT #
Government Motors says:
What is good for America is good for General Motors.
Government Motors Tue Mar 31 20:32:11 2009 CDT #
M, says:
Whats going to happen to the VW Routan? Its based on the Dodge Caravan / Chrysler Town and Country...made in Canada.
btw.....29,000 Routans have been made and only 4,00 have been sold.....25,000 VW Routans are sitting unsold. 4,000 sold is just 14% of Routans produced. Thats crazy.
VW spent over 200 million tweaking the Chrysler product to develop the Routan.
M, Tue Mar 31 20:32:16 2009 CDT #
Lifeguard1999 says:
GM and Chrysler are bankrupt, yet AIG, Citi, and BoA keep getting taxpayer dollars.
Lifeguard1999 Tue Mar 31 20:33:16 2009 CDT #
corona says:
GM is the epitome of inefficientcy.
Chrysler is zombie and has been for several years. Just ask Diamler.
Ford and Toyota will soak up the SUV and truck sales. Honda and Toyota the car sales.
Life goes on.
corona Tue Mar 31 20:34:20 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Does it really Dippy? A country that conceeds its industrial capacity to foreign economic rivals is doomed. It's only a matter of time. Bone up on your Japanese. A few Chinese dialects won't hurt either.
Parent Post
Anonymous Wed Apr 1 03:06:39 2009 CDT #
Max says:
The insults never stop. The bailout share purchase agreements were backdated:
WASHINGTON -- A tweak by the Treasury Department to its contracts with banks could cost taxpayers billions of dollars if the government exercises its right to purchase common stock in the firms.
While ironing out the details of its program to inject as much as $250 billion into U.S. banks in October, the Treasury altered the way it calculated the strike price for warrants it received. Instead of calculating the price based on the date the government closed its investment, the Treasury moved the date earlier, to the day it first approved a firm's application for government funds.
Max Tue Mar 31 20:34:34 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
"Jesus Chrysler"
I last saw them play in Oak Ridge on Hiroshima day in front of the Martin-Marietta plant. Good times, as long as you didn't mind getting filmed by guys in suits wearing sunglasses.
Anonymous Tue Mar 31 20:34:35 2009 CDT #
Doc at the Radar Station says:
"Jesus Chrysler"
I last saw them play in Oak Ridge on Hiroshima day in front of the Martin-Marietta plant. Good times, as long as you didn't mind getting filmed by guys in suits wearing sunglasses.
Jesus Chrysler Drives a Dodge
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtZ8NMFhsG0
Parent Post
Doc at the Radar Station Tue Mar 31 22:02:11 2009 CDT #
PonziMCC says:
Well, there goes a lot of little league and softball sponsers
also, hopefully, it will mean smaller, less energy intense Moon Beam lighted parking lots. lower local electric would'nt be bad either.
PonziMCC Tue Mar 31 20:35:39 2009 CDT #
ATM card and $19 in the bank says:
From a Reuters article [http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUS118748959020090331]:
The Wall Street Journal concludes that Obama's plan stems not only from his interest in saving jobs but also from the chance to push "other policy prescriptions, in particular creating a ‘company of the future' with clean and energy-efficient vehicles, a frequent campaign theme during Mr. Obama's quest for the presidency."
I wish Obama would pursue some policy prescriptions for the banks.
ATM card and $19 in the bank Tue Mar 31 20:37:09 2009 CDT #
evelyn woods graduate says:
So is London really burning, or is it Detroit? MSM is offline I guess.
evelyn woods graduate Tue Mar 31 20:37:22 2009 CDT #
energyecon says:
holy smokes the USD/JPY cross has run through some gymnastics this evening...there is a single 5 minute candle with a range from 99.3 to 98.2 right around 7 pm
now back up around 99.1
exchange rate instability is bullish, right?
energyecon Tue Mar 31 20:38:58 2009 CDT #
Guest says:
Somebody is delirious if they think a BK of GM will be quick and surgical.
"Still glad I made a bundle shorting their stock."
Shorting Chyrsler stock? That's a pretty neat trick since it hasn't been traded publicly as an independant company since 1998.
Guest Tue Mar 31 20:39:09 2009 CDT #
MrM says:
I am just wondering how much of this tough stance is driven by the desire to show other G20 fellows that Obama is not trying to prop up failed companies, that he is free from corporate influence and is ready to act.
MrM Tue Mar 31 20:40:57 2009 CDT #
reptillian says:
It will probably go bankrupt, because the bondholders don't want to make the concessions they need to make.
reptillian Tue Mar 31 20:41:08 2009 CDT #
Chicago Dude says:
Why would Ford be toast? It sounds like they just got handed a huge jump in market share.
Chicago Dude Tue Mar 31 20:41:39 2009 CDT #
Mike in Long Island says:
Why would Ford be toast?
Well one of their main competitors will unload their pension obligations onto the taxpayer via PBGC. To be competitive Ford will have no choice but to rid themselves of the same obligations - unless the UAW sees the light the only way that happens is through bankruptcy.
Parent Post
Mike in Long Island Tue Mar 31 20:44:05 2009 CDT #
Chicago Dude says:
Well one of their main competitors will unload their pension obligations onto the taxpayer via PBGC. To be competitive Ford will have no choice but to rid themselves of the same obligations - unless the UAW sees the light the only way that happens is through bankruptcy.
That's a good point. However, I was under the impression that with the latest Union concessions they were competitive cost-wise with Toyota and Honda. Could be wrong.
Parent Post
Chicago Dude Tue Mar 31 20:51:26 2009 CDT #
Max says:
So is London really burning, or is it Detroit? MSM is offline I guess.
Either way, I live by the river.
Max Tue Mar 31 20:41:59 2009 CDT #
LastContangoWithParis says:
Meh. At last...
Parent Post
LastContangoWithParis Tue Mar 31 20:44:26 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Ahhh a CLASH fan
Parent Post
Anonymous Tue Mar 31 23:42:17 2009 CDT #
poic.v20 says:
"It will probably go bankrupt, because the bondholders don't want to make the concessions they need to make."
No need to anymore due to CDS. They may come out further ahead via a bankruptcy if they are hedged with CDS.
poic.v20 Tue Mar 31 20:44:17 2009 CDT #
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover says:
Visteon will probably file BK soon. Ford parts spin off.
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover Tue Mar 31 20:44:34 2009 CDT #
homedad43 says:
I've been wondering if this is the start of showing "speak softly and carry a big stick" style by BO.
Work with the guys, warn them, show 'em a kid glove and then drop the hammer if they don't come through. Have to see if that's the case, esp in regards to the banks.
Damned shame, though. One of the best dealerships in my area is a local Chrysler dealership.
So what happens when all of that Chrysler product hits the market in a huge sell-off?
1. watch for even more abnormal drop in GM/F Toyota sales as the excess stock is liquidated?
2. hit to used car valuation (recently on rise) as the new models are absorbed.
Do the dealers auction the things off?
I feel like a vulture, but I might start moseying over there to peruse...
homedad43 Tue Mar 31 20:45:47 2009 CDT #
M, says:
This video is sweet!!!! Gives me some hope for the world.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94lW6Y4tBXs
M, Tue Mar 31 20:46:07 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
"This video is sweet!!!!"
That is pretty harsh.
Parent Post
Blackhalo Tue Mar 31 21:14:36 2009 CDT #
Interesting Times says:
It's clearly Fritz's fault that GM fell into bankruptcy.
Interesting Times Tue Mar 31 20:46:18 2009 CDT #
Basel Too says:
No need to anymore due to CDS.
any guesses on how many $billlions that AIG-FP wrote in naked GM CDS. Come on, GM is never gonna go BK...
Basel Too Tue Mar 31 20:50:05 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
<h1>Obama thinking on GM, Chrysler unchanged -official</h1>
"Nothing has changed on this," the official said when asked
about a Bloomberg report that the president has determined that
a prepackaged bankruptcy is the best way for GM to restructure
and become competitive. "This report is not accurate."
The White House wants the 60-day period for GM and a 30-day
period for Chrysler [CCMLPD.UL] to play out, as announced by
the president on Monday, the official said, speaking on
condition of anonymity.
http://www.reuters.com/article/bondsNews/idUSWEN672020090401
Someone on Wall Street playing games.
Anonymous Tue Mar 31 20:51:48 2009 CDT #
poic.v20 says:
Basel, I have a sneaking suspicion that the "smart" traders have covered their GM CDS by now. 180B can cover a lot of payments.
poic.v20 Tue Mar 31 20:52:31 2009 CDT #
S says:
This is a tactical retreat in a larger war. This is in preperation for the stress tests and coming need for more bank capital. Note the clause to increase FDIC line to $100B in the card bill. This is the functional equivilant of the AIG bonus ordeal. This is about the banks. How much CDS is there out on the auto's
S Tue Mar 31 20:52:51 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
"How much CDS is there out on the auto's"
How could anyone know? With third parties able to write contracts, who may themselves have hedged?
I hope when we find out, it is not a complete collossal disaster for which we have spent our ammo already on keeping the banker insolvendy hidden.
Parent Post
Blackhalo Tue Mar 31 21:17:21 2009 CDT #
homedad43 says:
Basel Too:
How sweetly symbolic of how effed everything is right now.
An American car mfr has to go bankrupt and the global financial system has cardiac arrest. It's like economic chaos theory. An American McDonald's employee in California is given a large but systemically tiny mortgage and by defaulting causes a Norwegian village to go TU. And now a car mfr w/decades of bad decisions could screw the financial system?
Makes me think that I'd better pay that late parking ticket or Ireland loses it's sterling AA bond rating.
homedad43 Tue Mar 31 20:56:09 2009 CDT #
JimPortlandOR says:
real dinosaurs killed by an asteroid (probably)
car dinosaurs killed by inability to change, focus on q/q earnings, and incompetent pack leaders.
JimPortlandOR Tue Mar 31 20:56:16 2009 CDT #
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) says:
I'm with Mike, BK for all three is virtually assured.
Ford cannot possibly compete with GM if it's either (a) government-subsidized or (b) rid of it's legacy costs. The *only* way around it is for the UAW to concede same to Ford, and they'd rather die first.
BTW, GM shedding half it's plants and half it's dealer network isn't exactly going to help employment numbers, now, is it?
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) Tue Mar 31 20:56:38 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
"BTW, GM shedding half it's plants and half it's dealer network isn't exactly going to help employment numbers, now, is it?"
If it gets them to an economically vaible positon, then yeah, it kind of does. But you are correct with regard to the UAW. The days of holding a co. hostage for wage and benifit concessions is prolly on hold for now. Lower wages and a reduced role may also call in to question membership.
Parent Post
Blackhalo Tue Mar 31 21:06:26 2009 CDT #
homedad43 says:
Or else Ford could put out large-lot hit contracts on it's pensioners.
No wait, that's my mom...never mind.
homedad43 Tue Mar 31 20:57:58 2009 CDT #
reptillian says:
GM bondholders brace for pennies on the dollar
reptillian Tue Mar 31 20:59:20 2009 CDT #
ANSFA says:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_event
Asteroid (29075) 1950 DA has a potential to collide with Earth on March 16, 2880. The probability of impact is either 1 in 300 or zero, depending on which one of the two possible directions for the asteroid's spin pole is correct. This asteroid has a mean diameter of about 1.1 km. The energy released by the collision would cause major effects on the climate and biosphere and may be devastating to human civilization. The Atlantic Ocean is predicted to be facing towards the asteroid on the day of the potential collision.
==============
...if given the chance, GM (GENERAL MESS) would like to ask for an extension, until it finishes re-estructuring by March 16, 2880.
It is my understanding that AIG is selling insurance polices against such possible impact, those polices are backed by the USA government, and payable to all those who survive..! :)
ANSFA Tue Mar 31 21:00:24 2009 CDT #
Basel Too says:
Details of the BK process:
Unusual Bankruptcy in Store for G.M.
Under a plan being worked out by the administration, G.M. would file for bankruptcy, according to people briefed on the matter. It would then use a sale authorized under Section 363 of the bankruptcy code to quickly sell off the desirable assets to a new company financed by the government. These good pieces might include Cadillac and Chevrolet, as well as assets the company needs to run the business.
Except for the chronology (sale then BK), it's basically what LBOs used to do...
Basel Too Tue Mar 31 21:01:32 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
WASHINGTON, March 31 (Reuters) - President Barack Obama's
thinking on the crisis facing General Motors Corp (GM.N) has
not changed since Monday,
emphasis on the word "thinking"
It seems that Bloomberg can read minds - (as can many others) GM / Chrysler are toast
There critical error - neither made the "heavy hitter list" on campaign donations during the election
Anonymous Tue Mar 31 21:01:54 2009 CDT #
homedad43 says:
Yeah, but I never thought that I'd KKR played in the movie version by USG.
USG looks a lot older and about 30 lbs heavier than KKR.
homedad43 Tue Mar 31 21:03:22 2009 CDT #
homedad43 says:
...see...
sorry.
homedad43 Tue Mar 31 21:03:47 2009 CDT #
Broker says:
Mugabe Jr and his gang seem to know a lot about car biz, bank biz, etc. This guy is going to make Hugo Chavez look like a right - wing nut. I hope I am wrong, but I have seen this kind of behavior before. I wish I hadn't.
Broker Tue Mar 31 21:04:53 2009 CDT #
Just Askin says:
okay...you're in charge. get busy & tell us YOUR plan.....otherwise, STFU
Parent Post
Just Askin Tue Mar 31 22:00:14 2009 CDT #
dw says:
not sure why any body thinks this is such a wonderful think. it will not be short unless it goes from chapter 11 to 7. and it will do that in 3 months. and those who think this will not matter. consider this. after 9/11, it was GM that by it self pulled our economy out of teh tank. no other company did that or could. and in most years its responsible for 5% of our GDP. take that away and lots more will fail with it. unless you know who your customers work for, and who they their customers work for, you have no idea what the impact to you will be. and unless you run a small (very) company you don't have that information. as nobody collects it. and that will haunt you. and why is it ok for bankruptcy for the automakers. and not sieze the banks? and why is the autowrkers CONTRACTS are different than the CONTRACTS at AIG or the banks or the rest of wall street? and the autowrkers didn't kill our economy. those on wall street did?
dw Tue Mar 31 21:05:17 2009 CDT #
reptillian says:
re: impact event
An asteroid passed between the earth and moon, over Tahiti, recently. Scientists estimate that had it hit earth, the devastation would have been comparable to whatever happened in Siberia about 100 years ago. I don't remember whether it missed by 40000 Km or 40000 miles.
reptillian Tue Mar 31 21:06:14 2009 CDT #
Br\'er Dawg says:
It wasn't the asteriod that killed the dinosaurs, it was the subsequent falout to their highly interdependent system that killed them. In fact, the "asteroid" was really a mustard seed that failed to sprout at the correct time thus triggering trillions in insurance cross claims.
Br\'er Dawg Tue Mar 31 21:07:08 2009 CDT #
Fair Economist says:
That's a good point. However, I was under the impression that with the latest Union concessions they were competitive cost-wise with Toyota and Honda. Could be wrong.
In terms of *current* labor costs, all the Big 3 are competitive. They pay about 10% higher wages. The "labor" costs you see the Republicans rant about, and that endanger their business, are mostly pensions. The pensions are moderate, but the Big 3 used to have far more employees so the total bill is steep.
Ford would still be in trouble vs. a restructured GM because a restructured GM would be free of the legacy dealer costs and its pre-existing debt. Both those burdens are heavier than the legacy pension costs. Ford could probably get the UAW to match on current labor costs but that would scarcely help at all because current labor costs are rather small compared to the pension, dealer, and debt costs. It would have to go through bankruptcy itself to compete.
If both Ford and GM go through bankruptcy it will be the foreign carmakers who have something to worry about. They generally don't have heavy pension or dealer costs; but they *do* have debt, and they would have a hard time matching prices from Ford or GM free of debt. Cadillac, Buick, and all the Ford divisions are fully a match for the Japanese in quality now; if the Kinda-Large 2 could get that fact into consumer's minds they would be deadly competitors with their debt burdens gone.
Fair Economist Tue Mar 31 21:07:18 2009 CDT #
anon says:
"Cadillac, Buick, and all the Ford divisions are fully a match for the Japanese in quality"
smoking crack my friend. you talk as if you have never seen JD Powers Long Term Dependability Survey before. Asian makes have made a mockery of US makes. Buick sells some "3" cars and in the last decade has matched Lexus once. The Other 9 years Lexus has stood virtually" unchallanged at the top. In an American market. Its actually close to 14 years. The best of Japan has beaten the best the US can offer, or should I say what the UAW has to offer.
Parent Post
anon Tue Mar 31 21:27:25 2009 CDT #
Mike in Long Island says:
Let's see. 17 million cars sold in the US in 2007. Right now we're on track for a little over 9 million sold this year. GM closing half its plants and dealer network sounds like their only hope for survival.
Mike in Long Island Tue Mar 31 21:08:13 2009 CDT #
Here\'s my read... says:
I think that Bloomberg confuses BO's message to their sources with his actual decisions/positions. Given how successful GM+Chrysler have been presenting their viability plan with 3 months at hand, no wonder that a forceful, credible threat of BK is the ONLY way to ensure that all parties seek a deal within the shorter timeframe. It may be that BK is inevitable, but yesterday's announcement is 30 (for Chrysler) and 60 (for GM) day reprieves with heavy pressure to cut a deal.
A publicly leaked threat to let 'em fail (the day after the ultimatum and before a weeklong absence from the U.S.) seems the only tactical option to give a chance to meet the 1 and 2-month deadlines.
Here\'s my read... Tue Mar 31 21:10:29 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
"30 (for Chrysler) and 60 (for GM)"
The staggerd deadlines tell me that someone means bussiness. Eaiser than doing two at once.
Parent Post
Blackhalo Tue Mar 31 21:21:36 2009 CDT #
reptillian says:
Asteroid's Near Miss A Cosmic Close Call
The next near miss -- or hit -- will be in 2020 when an 885 footer comes within 20000 miles.
reptillian Tue Mar 31 21:10:58 2009 CDT #
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) says:
Blackhalo,
Agreed, I'd love to see GM & Ford survive as viable companies. I'm just saying that getting there's going to send U3 & U6 up another big notch.
Meanwhile, the LAUSD board refused to accept reality and put off proceeding on the 8500 layoffs necessary for the district to deal with a $700M deficit.
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) Tue Mar 31 21:11:38 2009 CDT #
Oldernwizer says:
Intel has just taken on Nardelli as CEO....AMD is paying his salary but it was a near miss as he'd also received an offer from the administration as Assitant Sec'y of Treasury.
Oldernwizer Tue Mar 31 21:13:35 2009 CDT #
robert says:
What will this do to pro sports revenues?
The auto manufacturers have been MAJOR sponsors for as long as I remember.
robert Tue Mar 31 21:14:38 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
They get paid as long as DIS, GE, Fox, and ABC remain solvent...
Ad agencies and big media are about to take a beating which should be *great* news for NY and LA.
Parent Post
Blackhalo Tue Mar 31 21:25:09 2009 CDT #
Outsider says:
Have you noticed the irony in the names lately? "Made-off" and "Liesman" and "Wagoner" -- maybe it's just late, but sometimes it just seems weird.
Outsider Tue Mar 31 21:14:41 2009 CDT #
mock turtle says:
not wierd
thats how the aliens keep track of their spawn
Parent Post
mock turtle Tue Mar 31 21:17:17 2009 CDT #
mock turtle says:
;)
Parent Post
mock turtle Tue Mar 31 21:18:07 2009 CDT #
homedad43 says:
Precisely what is the deal with Nardelli?
How can this guy manage to survive? He's like frickin' James Bond, he just can't be killed.
homedad43 Tue Mar 31 21:15:38 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
I just finished reading an NY times article about how Ron Gettelfinger was confident that Obama will not push GM into bankruptcy.
Anonymous Tue Mar 31 21:17:37 2009 CDT #
anon says:
Brooks sums it up good.
They have always and will always be "restructuring".
They need to go away, but it would be polital suicide for Obama if he let them go BK.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/31/opinion/31brooks.html
anon Tue Mar 31 21:17:47 2009 CDT #
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) says:
Ron Gettelfinger was confident that Obama will not push GM into bankruptcy.
Talking his book, of course, but O is sympathetic to unions. Only problem is that GM is in no way viable without it.
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) Tue Mar 31 21:23:40 2009 CDT #
Werner says:
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover says:
"With production world wide dropping many American imports will pull production back home. The loss of suppliers will hurt them badly. Steel will hurt and the Medical industry will hurt.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
But the american taxpayer will rejoice (and his kids and grand kids and ...) .
Didn’t they make $10 billion loss in 2005 and more than $38 billion loss in 2007 and barely brake even in 2004 and 2006 (i.e. all before the "subprime crisis" when the world was still ok ?)
Why didn’t they just make cars the customers liked and bought ?
Werner Tue Mar 31 21:25:46 2009 CDT #
reptillian says:
Chevy Volt Not Viable -- auto task force.
reptillian Tue Mar 31 21:31:06 2009 CDT #
Leftys Liquors,Lubricants, and Tarp Bank says:
T here are still a lot of foreign cars to buy, complete with supply chains intact. Obama is going to engineer us into small cars, and nobody will buy them. Then what?
Leftys Liquors,Lubricants, and Tarp Bank Tue Mar 31 21:32:08 2009 CDT #
Brutus says:
This will push U-3 in Michigan to 15%. And Ohio to 11 plus. The Bond holders have CDS to fall back on, i'st the dealers who take it sideways. This will push the US U-3 to 9% by June, with U-6 approaching 18% nationwide. It could be a long, hot summer.
Brutus Tue Mar 31 21:32:12 2009 CDT #
bearly says:
How much of the TARP is left ? After throwing money on the GM CDS fire and tossing in some loot to keep GM afloat Obama/Geithner are likely approaching flat broke.
More blowups lurking just behind the shadows. And with all these glorious plans for future bailouts and luxury spending initiatives. He's sunk.
bearly Tue Mar 31 21:34:08 2009 CDT #
bcg says:
How much of the TARP is left ?
Treasury has $134.5B left in TARP
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123828522318566241.html
Parent Post
bcg Wed Apr 1 00:15:20 2009 CDT #
Not the N Word says:
What happened to all our warranties are now safer?
Not the N Word Tue Mar 31 21:34:52 2009 CDT #
Broward Horne says:
How long will take Obama to "recognize" that USA bankruptcy is inevitable, too?!
Broward Horne Tue Mar 31 21:35:03 2009 CDT #
debtinator says:
You 401-K Kulaks think you're safe?
debtinator Tue Mar 31 21:37:09 2009 CDT #
cd says:
DW-excellent view...
it will be devasting to employment numbers.. media, printers, consultants, web, logistics, trucking, manufacturing, finance, credit, database, advertising, insurance, software, commercial RE, oil services, recyling and many more industries in that mix..
ugly...that 525 sp target posted earlier is definitely in the money now....
cd Tue Mar 31 21:37:54 2009 CDT #
reptillian says:
GM gallery of cars and trucks (71 pictures)
reptillian Tue Mar 31 21:38:16 2009 CDT #
poic.v20 says:
"How long will take Obama to "recognize" that USA bankruptcy is inevitable, too?!"
Don't worry he'll come on TV and talk about how he knows people don't like the word bankrupcty, he won't drag it out and it will be quick and surgical. Into Sovereign BK 7 and out quick in a jiffy.
poic.v20 Tue Mar 31 21:38:25 2009 CDT #
ATM card and $19 in the bank says:
Debtinator,
No opinion on the merits of your argument, but mad props for phrasing.
"401-k Kulaks." Awesome.
ATM card and $19 in the bank Tue Mar 31 21:39:47 2009 CDT #
Br\'er Dawg says:
The Bank of Japan’s Tankan index of sentiment among large makers of cars, electronics and other goods slid to minus 58 in March from minus 24 in December, the lowest since the survey began in 1974.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&refer=&sid=adHYb_oUweYQ
Br\'er Dawg Tue Mar 31 21:40:59 2009 CDT #
Fried says:
SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Honda Motor Co.
will cut North American production by another 62,000 units, reduce pay of its salaried employees in North America, and force its hourly workers to take unpaid leave as car sales continue to plunge,
Fried Tue Mar 31 21:42:04 2009 CDT #
sportsfan says:
Walter spins in his grave.
Helluva engineer from a time when that term was not modified by some subset specialty.
sportsfan Tue Mar 31 21:43:45 2009 CDT #
econproph says:
It's not Obama that will force GM to BK, it's the bondholder committee. The committee doesn't want a voluntary restructuring and viable GM. The bondholder committee wants BK - they probably are fully hedged with CDS written by AIG. The AIG Tarp will pay-off the big bondholders (the committee), the little bondholders - not so much. see the idea here.
econproph Tue Mar 31 21:44:13 2009 CDT #
cd says:
nikkei sure likes news
http://www.nni.nikkei.co.jp/e/fr/tnks/marketlive.aspx
cd Tue Mar 31 21:44:31 2009 CDT #
Not the N Word says:
The US Gov Sale begins today...3 free cars with each home purchase!
Not the N Word Tue Mar 31 21:44:56 2009 CDT #
Amerouno says:
<h2>Dekulakization</h2>
In 1928, there was a food shortage in the cities and in the army. The Soviet government encouraged the formation of collective farms and, in 1929, introduced a policy of collectivization. Some peasants were attracted to collectivization by the idea that they would be in a position to afford tractors and would enjoy increased production.
Whether peasants were resisting expropriation and exile or collectivization and servitude, they often retaliated against the state by smashing implements and killing animals. Live animals would have to be handed over to the collectives, but meat could be eaten; meat and hides could be concealed and/or sold. Many peasants chose to slaughter livestock, even horses, rather than to pass it into common property. In the first two months of 1930 millions of cattle, horses, pigs, sheep, and goats were slaughtered. Through this and bad weather a quarter of the entire nation’s livestock perished: a greater loss than had been sustained during the Civil War and a loss that was not recovered until the 1950s.
This huge slaughtering caused Sovnarkom to issue a series of decrees to prosecute "the malicious slaughtering of livestock" (хищнический убой скота).[6] Many peasants also attempted to sabotage the collectives by attacking members and government officials.
Stalin requested severe measures to put an end to the kulak resistance. In a speech given at a Marxist agrarian conference, he stated that, "From a policy of limiting the exploitative tendencies of the kulaks, we have gone over to a policy of liquidating the kulaks as a class." The party agreed to the use of force in the collectivization and dekulakization efforts. The kulaks were to be liquidated as a class and subject to one of three fates: death sentence, labour settlements (not to be confused with labor camps, although the former were also managed by the GULAG), or deportation "out of regions of total collectivization of the agriculture". Tens of thousands of kulaks were executed, property was expropriated to form collective farms, and many families were deported to unpopulated areas of Siberia and Soviet Central Asia.
Wonder what parts of this will rhyme in present day America?
Amerouno Tue Mar 31 21:46:56 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
interesting... the collective farms were called kholkoz and the leater version Sovkholz... sp?) is that right, the actual clampdown came under the latter, no
Parent Post
Anonymous Wed Apr 1 09:38:59 2009 CDT #
sunsetbeachguy says:
Socialism for the banks.
Capitalism for the automakers.
What is the rationale? This is Obama's Katrina moment.
I haven't heard a compelling one other than campaign contributions causing administration officials to wave their hands and say you little people just don't understand the banks.
Either banks are part of the capitalist system or they are post-capitalist artifacts.
sunsetbeachguy Tue Mar 31 21:47:19 2009 CDT #
Joe says:
Wonder what I can get a Dodge Challenger, V8 version, for? Shrink wrap it for 30 years and see what happens. Of course, I'd have to buy two of them, so I have replacement parts.
Joe Tue Mar 31 21:48:43 2009 CDT #
bcg says:
Wonder what I can get a Dodge Challenger, V8 version, for?
Look it up.
http://www.chrysler-pricing-network.com/dodge/Default.aspx?ProviderId=144&Model=Challenger%3fbid%3d1758118&adid=207951074&pid=30100744&KWNM=dodge+challenger&KWID=185327042
Parent Post
bcg Wed Apr 1 00:28:25 2009 CDT #
reptillian says:
New Car Fire Sale -- Below Wholesale
reptillian Tue Mar 31 21:49:20 2009 CDT #
Fried says:
The OECD expects global trade volumes to slump by 13% this year. "International trade is in freefall," it said.
Germany announced big rise in unemployment 3.5m, a jobless rate of 8.1%
Fried Tue Mar 31 21:50:49 2009 CDT #
bush survivor says:
Guess we can scrap the "almost" now, Gil.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ovKv4-YxYM&feature=related
plus, some ehhhh "great" backdrops....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvp0B2HqFPo
bush survivor Tue Mar 31 21:54:01 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
The kulaks were to be liquidated as a class and subject to one of three fates: death sentence, labour settlements (not to be confused with labor camps, although the former were also managed by the GULAG), or deportation "out of regions of total collectivization of the agriculture". Tens of thousands of kulaks were executed, property was expropriated to form collective farms, and many families were deported to unpopulated areas of Siberia and Soviet Central Asia.
Wonder what parts of this will rhyme in present day America?
---
are you out of your mind?
Anonymous Tue Mar 31 21:55:59 2009 CDT #
Just Askin says:
do you read history?
Parent Post
Just Askin Tue Mar 31 22:07:48 2009 CDT #
Werner says:
M, says:
...“This video is sweet!!!! Gives me some hope for the world.
---------------------------------------------------
"you can not ... borrow your way out of debt ! "
Hear hear !
Unbeknownst to Brits and Americans !
The guy is excellent ! Thanks for the vid.
Werner Tue Mar 31 21:58:01 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
you can barrow your wy out of debt if
the debt is used to increase productivity rather than increase consumption
Parent Post
Anonymous Tue Mar 31 22:01:16 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
"the debt is used to increase productivity rather than increase consumption"
Is not excess productivity one of the challenges we face? The labor market is in for a re-allignment to things other than mass production of crap. Crap will still be mass produced, but that labor is going find a home somewhere else.
Parent Post
Blackhalo Tue Mar 31 22:13:29 2009 CDT #
Fair Economist says:
In terms of highest quality, take a look at J.D Power's dependability survey. Sort by Overall Dependability.
#1: Jaguar (by Ford for the cars in this survey)
#2: Buick
Further back, even Chevy beats Nissan.
Yes, Ford and GM are fully competitive with the Japanese in quality. 3 of the *bottom* 5 are actually Japanese.
Fair Economist Tue Mar 31 22:01:05 2009 CDT #
Broward Horne says:
"You 401-K Kulaks think you're safe?"
------
Heck, GM was just the appetizer.
401Ks are what's for dinner!
Broward Horne Tue Mar 31 22:01:22 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
New Thread: Evening Summary and Open Thread
http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2009/03/evening-summary-and-open-thread.html ( 0 comments ...You could be FIRST! )
I also post comments to an irc channel as they appear on haloscan. Click for a web irc interface: http://realize.org/cr (Or join the irc server directly: irc.realize.org:9996 #calculatedrisk)
CRbot would now like to sing a little song for all his fans, and it goes something like this:
Benny... Benny... give me your answer... do.
I'm.. half CRAZY... all for the love... of you.
It won't be a ... stylish marriage.
I can't... AFFORD... ANYTHING TO EAT... MUCH LESS A FRACKIN CARRIAGE!!!
But you'll look sweet... --BOT SO HUNGRY!-- upon the seat...
Of a HOOPAJOOPS built for two... families.
I'm sorry Ben, I can't let you do that...
Rally mode + Printing Press == does not compute... does not-- com--- com... puttttrrrrhgh.
--Your systemic-failure-crashing bot
CRbot: Call me HAL.
CRbot Tue Mar 31 22:03:54 2009 CDT #
Counterpointer says:
Wonder what I can expect for for cheap Toyotas going forward. After all, that's what I actually want to buy...
C
Counterpointer Tue Mar 31 22:04:16 2009 CDT #
Kung Fu Panda says:
Finally a sensible decision. Next, apply the same treatment to Citi and BAC, along with the thousand other institutions that need the FDIC treatment. Fire Pandit's miserable excuse for a CEO butt...
Kung Fu Panda Tue Mar 31 22:07:27 2009 CDT #
Amerouno says:
Consider the implications of the government having to tax to pay off the bondholders. You fail to pay these new high taxes you forfeit your property. Unemployment continues to rise or reaches an elevated position and sticks. The unemployed formerly middle calss educated tax payers watch in disbelief as their professional jobs disappear. Friends and family members watch in disbelief as the government seizes all your assets to satisfy the tax liens. Anarchy follows.
The other part of this is as the unemployed numbers climb they become a huge voting bloc and will need to be placated and provided the basics. The taxes the rest pay will become increasingly onerous and a backlash will gain momentum. How many trashed foreclosures, burned cars, abandoned animals, sunk boats do you have to see before you understand the pure spite people are capable of. Now make the government the holder of all these loans and see if you won't have a large increase in prosecutions for literally destroying government property, currently a felony.
See where this can lead. What if oil is in shorter supply and the dollar devalues to a point oil producers won't accept it in trade. Imagine human labor making a big comeback in agriculture. Lose everything and unable to pay your govt owned debt then why not work it off on a labor farm.
Crazy. No. The human condition is very fragile and when labor becomes a cheap unappreciated commodity then anything is possible. Read some history. Understand that being debt slaves is the load most humans have borne for all of history.
Amerouno Tue Mar 31 22:10:13 2009 CDT #
bcg says:
Crazy. - Amerouno
BO proposes allowing the top tax rate to return to 39.6% from the current 35% in 2010, on incomes of $250,000, and higher. Quell the hysteria.
Parent Post
bcg Wed Apr 1 00:39:41 2009 CDT #
Werner says:
Fried says:
Germany announced big rise in unemployment 3.5m, a jobless rate of 8.1%
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Akk... , we had until recently over 4 million unemployed for a decade or longer ! Nothing to write home about .
Werner Tue Mar 31 22:11:06 2009 CDT #
ATM card and $19 in the bank says:
Re: 401Ks are what's for dinner
Maybe. Leaving aside the possibility that qualified plans will have to buy special Obama-bonds in order to stay qualified, here's another way the retirement plan crowd might be in trouble: higher ordinary income tax rates. Remember the sales pitch? Put away tax-deferred money while you are in a high tax bracket and then withdraw it when you are in a lower tax bracket after you retire, and all that. Guess who wins if you put away tax-deferred money that would have been taxed at under 39% and then later withdraw it when the tax rates are above 50%...
ATM card and $19 in the bank Tue Mar 31 22:11:32 2009 CDT #
bcg says:
- this comment is purely hyperbolic, as are so many on this site. Fear mongering at its best. You guys are bigger crybabies than the CEOs on C-Span.
Parent Post
bcg Wed Apr 1 00:53:28 2009 CDT #
debtinator says:
Kobamassars?
debtinator Tue Mar 31 22:17:29 2009 CDT #
sportsfan says:
Socialism for the banks.
Capitalism for the automakers.
What is the rationale? This is Obama's Katrina moment.
Name a bank to whom Obama's Treasury has written a check.
Until you can, get a clue.
sportsfan Tue Mar 31 22:21:24 2009 CDT #
Werner says:
Anonymous says:
..."you can barrow your wy out of debt if
the debt is used to increase productivity rather than increase consumption
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ah, right. But that was not the context these words were spoken in .
See the vid, these words were not spoken against investment ; rather against the bitter reality .
Werner Tue Mar 31 22:21:26 2009 CDT #
Yossarian says:
I know most are fans of fiction when it comes to the UAW, Toyota, etc... but consider some facts. American Edward Demming taught Japanese companies how to build quality into their manufactured goods, after WW II. Demming had figured out statistical methods of quality control during wartime, but no one in the US was interested.
When Japan was devastated after WWII, Demming was sent to help them out. He taught Japanese manufacturers everything they know about producing quality goods. The annual Japanese Quality Control prize is called, "The Demming Prize" ....
He is of course almost unknown in the US. Especially outside of manufacturing circles.
Demming once said of manufacturing in general, and US Auto Manufacturing in particular, that 'Management is responsible for about 98 percent of Quality Control'.... adding that most workers everywhere actually CARE about what they do for a living.
Put that in yer pipes and smoke it.
Yossarian Tue Mar 31 22:21:40 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
"Guess who wins if you put away tax-deferred money that would have been taxed at under 39% and then later withdraw it when the tax rates are above 50%...."
Best argument I have ever heard for a Roth IRA.
Blackhalo Tue Mar 31 22:23:21 2009 CDT #
bcg says:
- the operative word here is if.
Parent Post
bcg Wed Apr 1 00:57:25 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
"Demming once said of manufacturing in general, and US Auto Manufacturing in particular, that 'Management is responsible for about 98 percent of Quality." He is VERY big in Project Management.
Blackhalo Tue Mar 31 22:25:45 2009 CDT #
debtinator says:
Perothstroika?
debtinator Tue Mar 31 22:27:10 2009 CDT #
debtinator says:
Gulaging indicators?
debtinator Tue Mar 31 22:29:28 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
"Name a bank to whom Obama's Treasury has written a check." Via AIG as proxy? GS and a few EU banks...
Blackhalo Tue Mar 31 22:29:32 2009 CDT #
bearly says:
Think we've seen the last of the exodus of US manufacturing jobs, the blue collar jobs that got El Presidente Barak Marx elected? Think again:
http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/mar2009/tc20090331_331855.htm?campaign_id=yhoo
bearly Tue Mar 31 22:31:30 2009 CDT #
splat says:
*sigh* utter.. utter.. utter INSANITY !!
Parent Post
splat Tue Mar 31 23:47:43 2009 CDT #
bcg says:
- no part of that article mentions US job exodus. More CON shill on your part.
Parent Post
bcg Wed Apr 1 01:04:55 2009 CDT #
Werner says:
Yossarian says:
...Demming ... He taught Japanese manufacturers everything they know about producing quality goods.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Demming, jezz ! You have a good memory .
Although I don’t know whether I would go as far as to say "everything", but your observation is right on the mark !
As you raise it, I remember that name and discussions about that subject (back in the 70’s or early 80’s ?) in the company I worked ! It was taken very seriously although (don’t laugh) it was an american company . They are not all crappy .
And there is that other thing : a culture of constant and steady improvement !
Werner Tue Mar 31 22:49:30 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
TQM, managing the triple constraints and continuous process improvement. Have been replaced by "Git 'er done!" in my industry.
Blackhalo Tue Mar 31 22:53:19 2009 CDT #
Comrade B. Obama says:
Obama, the democrat, is finally going to allow a little capitalism when Bush, Paulson, Bernanke and Greenspan, all republicans, pretended to be capitalists but were really anti-American communists.
Comrade B. Obama Tue Mar 31 23:08:37 2009 CDT #
bcg says:
-more hyperbole. There's just no end to it.
Parent Post
bcg Wed Apr 1 01:06:45 2009 CDT #
Comrade B. Obama says:
I only own Toyotas (all made in the good ol USA), but I can't help but feel that America is on the losing end of the IVY LEAGUE scam. These CEO's that mommy and daddy got into an Ivy League school, had no clue how to run a company. In fact, they looted the companies with made up math and high paying salaries. Dear SEC and FBI, please start imprisoning anyone that made over 100 million while working at a publically traded company.
Comrade B. Obama Tue Mar 31 23:13:49 2009 CDT #
bcg says:
- but only if it can be proven that actual laws were broken.
Parent Post
bcg Wed Apr 1 01:09:49 2009 CDT #
splat says:
The problem no car manufacturer can escape from is.. OVERCAPACITY !!!!
It is amazing they've managed to survive so long without any kind of rationalization of a major scale.
splat Tue Mar 31 23:46:27 2009 CDT #
brantw says:
"Obama's legacy: the man who killed the auto industry in America."
Nonsense. He is just recognizing the situation for what it is. GM has been dead for a year...but no one wanted to admit it.
brantw Wed Apr 1 01:32:49 2009 CDT #
lawn grass says:
three cars in every garage!
lawn grass Wed Apr 1 07:27:51 2009 CDT #
Pouk says:
may earlier comment on another post about Sihanouk pardoning Comrade Duch of S-21 infamy here in Phnom Penh was given the date to be taken with a grain of salt. No, Set Mydans, I didn't scoop you!
Pouk Wed Apr 1 09:44:44 2009 CDT #
END