Comments for BF 19 & 20: FDIC Seizes Teambank, National Association, Paola, Kansas and Colorado National Bank, Colorado Springs, Colorado
CRbot says:
This comment thread has been HALO-IZED by CRbot.
http://realize.org/cr/halokit.php?halourl=http://www.haloscan.com/comments/calculatedrisk/1540940160056686208
CRbot Fri Mar 20 18:34:23 2009 CDT #
Rob_Dawg says:
Scone, my sister is a teacher in JinJin. Australia isn't quite independent but they have the resources to make it if necessary.
Rob_Dawg Fri Mar 20 18:35:31 2009 CDT #
sm_landlord says:
OK, I take it back. Georgia does not have a monopoly on stupid banks. ;-)
sm_landlord Fri Mar 20 18:37:22 2009 CDT #
DIPing to China says:
The A.I.G. executive who was nicknamed “Jackpot Jimmy” by a New York tabloid walked up the driveway toward his bay-windowed house in Fairfield, Conn., on Thursday afternoon. "How do I feel?” said the executive, James Haas, repeating the question he had just been asked. “I feel horrible. This has been a complete invasion of privacy."
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/20/nyregion/20siege.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper
I don't like what it says about me to enjoy this discomfiture by an AIG employee but I do believe public shaming might be the only way to change this culture of corruption.
DIPing to China Fri Mar 20 18:40:15 2009 CDT #
Virgil says:
From US central web site:
On January 28, the National Credit Union Administration (NCUA) announced it would
inject $1 billion of capital into U.S. Central and guarantee $80 billion in deposits
throughout the Corporate Credit Union Network. The NCUA acted swiftly in this matter,
deeming the current approach the least costly option available to stabilize the Corporate
Network amid this historic economic and financial market downturn.
Virgil Fri Mar 20 18:41:09 2009 CDT #
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) says:
sm_landlord,
That doesn't preclude all Georgia banks from being stupid. =-X
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) Fri Mar 20 18:42:13 2009 CDT #
Counterpointer says:
Three and counting. Let's go. Gimme danger, CR:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7_7l5SUlZI
C
Counterpointer Fri Mar 20 18:43:18 2009 CDT #
Doc at the Radar Station says:
No Fun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZYPriCxvoI
Parent Post
Doc at the Radar Station Fri Mar 20 21:32:22 2009 CDT #
EvilHenryPaulson says:
if you want to look up a bank or credit union, http://www.occ.treas.gov/sites.htm
ots is so 1990s
EvilHenryPaulson Fri Mar 20 18:44:53 2009 CDT #
reptillian says:
Wow! Triple-header.
No wonder FDIC took a break last week.
reptillian Fri Mar 20 18:45:06 2009 CDT #
Virgil says:
Am I the only one who missed this story?
http://www.ncua.gov/news/press_releases/2009/MR09-0128.htm
" The NCUSIF is issuing a temporary guarantee of member shares in corporate credit unions through February and will extend the guarantee on a voluntary basis to all corporate credit unions through December 31, 2010. (This guarantee is in addition to the temporary corporate credit union liquidity guarantee program announced on October 16, 2008.)
Additionally, to immediately stabilize the corporate credit union system, the NCUSIF is issuing a capital note injecting $1 billion into U.S. Central, thereby providing reserves to offset anticipated realized losses on some of the mortgage- and asset-based securities held by U.S. Central."
Virgil Fri Mar 20 18:46:26 2009 CDT #
scone says:
Rob_Dawg says:
Today, 4:35:31 PM
“Scone, my sister is a teacher in JinJin. Australia isn't quite independent but they have the resources to make it if necessary.
.
Thanks, RD. That's my conclusion as well. In fact, when I was there, I noticed a lot of basic infrastructure being built. They still don't have a complete, modern highway system between the large cities, for example. And they are still looking for people with skills. But the parts that have been completed are more modern than a lot of the American stuff. Also clean public toilets everywhere. It's a lot like Cali before everything went to hell.
scone Fri Mar 20 18:47:41 2009 CDT #
reptillian says:
"to offset anticipated realized losses on some of the mortgage- and asset-based securities held by U.S. Central"
"some of"
reptillian Fri Mar 20 18:48:36 2009 CDT #
Lucifer\'s Inverted Hammer says:
So what does the NCUA action mean for retail credit unions? I'm afraid I'm not quite understanding how the coorporate credit unions work -- were they making investments with money deposited from retail credit unions? In other words, if the NCUA were not stepping in with bailouts and guarantees, whose money is it that would be lost?
Lucifer\'s Inverted Hammer Fri Mar 20 18:51:42 2009 CDT #
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) says:
"Down Under" is looking better all the time.
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) Fri Mar 20 18:54:58 2009 CDT #
reptillian says:
"Corporate credit unions are restricted to investing in highly rated securities, and their interest rate risk exposure is constrained by net economic value limits. Historically, these securities could be readily sold in the market or used for collateralized borrowing to obtain liquidity, and the value of securities experienced little or no loss. However, ..."
reptillian Fri Mar 20 18:56:37 2009 CDT #
Virgil says:
Lucifer: From Wescorp's home page:
"
Because WesCorp’s assets belong to member/owners, the WesCorp story is more than one of asset growth. The heart of that story is an exclusive commitment to serve credit unions. Every chapter, from the first certificates in the 1970s to the expanded authorities of today, has been written by that commitment.
When WesCorp opened in 1969, facilitating credit union investments was the focus. Later, as credit union needs changed, WesCorp provided member/owners with liquidity and cash management assistance. Through the years, credit unions have asked WesCorp to develop item-processing services (share drafts/check collection), funds transfer and ACH origination services, WAVE (online account access) and enhanced investment options, including traditional fixed-rate and term investments and structured offerings. "
Virgil Fri Mar 20 18:57:27 2009 CDT #
reptillian says:
"Down Under" is looking better all the time.
A visa can be difficult to obtain. Same for Canada.
reptillian Fri Mar 20 18:59:23 2009 CDT #
EvilHenryPaulson says:
since ESPN has transformed itself into the ultimate parody of a sports network, you think they can dedicate some broadcast time to bank foreclosures?
EvilHenryPaulson Fri Mar 20 19:03:47 2009 CDT #
Bob Dobbs says:
I'm in charitable giving, and it was a Red Queen moment today at work; our manager brought us in and told us life would be hell for the forseeable future. Through herculean efforts we have reached out to more people than ever before vastly increased the number of gifts over last year.
But dollar volume is flat. We're working twice as hard for every dollar. Spending twice as much overhead per dollar on every gift. And the pressure will only increase as the gifts get smaller -- even more gifts, even more outreach, more back office work. More and more work for us, with no extra help.
He's not a bad guy. He said, "Anything I can do to make life easier, if you think you've got too much work to handle, I'll do what I can. You're a great team, and I want to keep you together."
Unsaid in the room floated the thought, "There's nowhere else to go, anyway."
(The Red Queen sez: "You've got to run as hard as you can just to stay in the same place."
Bob Dobbs Fri Mar 20 19:03:58 2009 CDT #
scone says:
reptillian says:
Today, 4:59:23 PM
“"Down Under" is looking better all the time.
A visa can be difficult to obtain. Same for Canada.
.
It depends. If you have certain skills, they will help you get in. The government runs expos around the world to recruit for skills they need:
http://www.immi.gov.au/skillexpos/
scone Fri Mar 20 19:04:09 2009 CDT #
reptillian says:
Just as when being successful, it is desirable to be eminently successful, so, when doomed, it may be best to be exquisitely doomed.
reptillian Fri Mar 20 19:04:17 2009 CDT #
Lucifer\'s Inverted Hammer says:
Virgil,
So if I understand this correctly, Wescorp was managing investments for retail credit unions? Meaning, roughly speaking, retail credit unions were investing their money in assets like mortage-backed securities through Wescorp?
So is this sort of like the FDIC announcing that it is taking over, say, the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas due to "to offset anticipated realized losses on some of the mortgage- and asset-based securities"? (If a federal reserve bank hypothetically had such things in its portfolio)
Lucifer\'s Inverted Hammer Fri Mar 20 19:04:39 2009 CDT #
EvilHenryPaulson says:
Credit Union: Depositor and Shareholder are one and the same
Bank: Depositor and Shareholder are separate
there was guaranteeing of Credit Unions last December, probably not long after the $250k FDIC bump and Money Market guarantees
EvilHenryPaulson Fri Mar 20 19:06:27 2009 CDT #
Dirk van Dijk says:
Good thing Pizza Hut is a National chain. This corp credit union thing could be big, and is really unexpected, at least my me, it was nowhere on my radar screen.
Dirk van Dijk Fri Mar 20 19:06:43 2009 CDT #
Lucifer\'s Inverted Hammer says:
Bob Dobbs,
The Red Queen also said "Off with their heads!" Just saying, is all.
Lucifer\'s Inverted Hammer Fri Mar 20 19:06:50 2009 CDT #
Virgil says:
http://www.labusinessjournal.com/article.asp?aID=9818902.62242802.1760239.1750265.4838126.937&aID2=135394
"Western Corporate, known as WesCorp, has 1,100 retail credit union members and assets of more than $23 billion.
In January, the institution reported unrealized losses of $2.6 billion in its investment portfolio, nearly half of which consists of securities backed by subprime or Alt-A mortgages. In a statement, regulators said an internal analysis of the portfolio showed that the value had declined significantly since January, “contributing to diminished liquidity and payment system capacities, as well as further loss of confidence by member credit unions and other stakeholders.”
U.S. Central, which has assets of $34 billion, recently announced an unexpected $1.1 billion loss, which sent waves of concern through the credit union industry.
In response, regulators injected $1 billion into the institution and announced a plan to provide up to $3.7 billion more to the nation’s corporate credit unions. As of Friday, the NCUA said the total amount needed to assist the industry could be as high as $5.9 billion. The funds for the plan would come from the deposit insurance fund – a proposal that has upset retail credit unions, which pay fees to support the fund."
Seems like retail credit unions have been responible but not the corporate ones.
Virgil Fri Mar 20 19:06:56 2009 CDT #
sm_landlord says:
re: "Down Under" reptillian writes;
"A visa can be difficult to obtain. Same for Canada."
Last time I checked, $500K and a business plan would get you citizenship, not just just a visa, in either place.
That's half the price of a two bedroom condo around here. :-)
sm_landlord Fri Mar 20 19:07:45 2009 CDT #
Virgil says:
Lucifer: Yup, seems like that's how it works. It's like a bank's bank essentially.
Virgil Fri Mar 20 19:08:16 2009 CDT #
scone says:
However, I don't think I'll ever get the LBW rule.
scone Fri Mar 20 19:14:25 2009 CDT #
Lucifer\'s Inverted Hammer says:
I don't suppose there's a list somewhere of the names of the 1100 retail credit unions that are members of Wescorp?
Lucifer\'s Inverted Hammer Fri Mar 20 19:15:36 2009 CDT #
Virgil says:
Can the NCUA even cover this amount of money? They're a lot smaller than the FDIC.
Virgil Fri Mar 20 19:15:54 2009 CDT #
Bob Dobbs says:
"The Red Queen also said "Off with their heads!" Just saying, is all."
That may come as well. We're overbudget. And I'm the guy in the unit who won't work nights and weekends. But I'm also the only guy in the unit without stress-related health or obesity problems.
Bob Dobbs Fri Mar 20 19:17:12 2009 CDT #
Dust Bowling for Dollars says:
anyone know how to find out who Wescorps member CUs are?
Dust Bowling for Dollars Fri Mar 20 19:20:17 2009 CDT #
Virgil says:
If Wescorp served 1100 credit unions, that's probably almost every credit union in california -and they put HALF of their investment portfolio in subprime and alt-A securities. Half!
Virgil Fri Mar 20 19:21:13 2009 CDT #
Lucifer\'s Inverted Hammer says:
Aren't there only something like 8500 retail credit unions nationwide? So Wescorp was serving more than 1/8th of ALL of them? That can't possibly be good.
Lucifer\'s Inverted Hammer Fri Mar 20 19:23:12 2009 CDT #
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) says:
Well, software geeks seem to rate highly on the AUS occupations list. Nice to know (since I don't have $500K lying around).
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) Fri Mar 20 19:28:47 2009 CDT #
Lucifer\'s Inverted Hammer says:
Software geeks, eh? I don't have $500K either, but I am an experienced software engineer. Although, I would have to get used to the toilets flushing in the opposite direction. That could be a deal-breaker.
Lucifer\'s Inverted Hammer Fri Mar 20 19:33:43 2009 CDT #
mark says:
Another reason to move to Australia:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/oddstuff/2280897/The-beer-that-strips
mark Fri Mar 20 19:33:53 2009 CDT #
Lawyerliz says:
So credit unions aren't so safe after all?
Garsh. 3 banks and 2 CU squaredses. Can't have a BFF without a Ga bank. And Colorado and Kansas. I just would have thought the implosions would have started elsewhere.
Lawyerliz Fri Mar 20 19:35:25 2009 CDT #
Terry says:
I see that the OCC only put Colorado National and TeamBank under C&Ds in September of 2008. No public actions before that. Only six months before resolution. Things either went downhill fast, or the regulators had them on double secret probation for awhile.
Terry Fri Mar 20 19:35:49 2009 CDT #
reptillian says:
S&P Placed WesCorp on Credit Watch Negative, last month!
Interesting commentary, there, about the "solidarity" of credit unions.
reptillian Fri Mar 20 19:37:44 2009 CDT #
Some Investor Guy says:
Chartporn alert. FRBSF charts of foreclosure rates by neighborhood. Some places over 12%. http://www.frbsf.org/community/issues/assets/preservation/resources/foreclosure/ca_jan_09.pdf
Some Investor Guy Fri Mar 20 19:37:52 2009 CDT #
vozworth says:
bottles of beer that strip as you consume the beverage is a gateway drug to Flight of the Concords....
I read it all day people.
drink knurds, bANK fAILURE called it earlier.
vozworth Fri Mar 20 19:38:14 2009 CDT #
That Barton Fink Feeling says:
NY Times: "Those bonuses in years past helped make A.I.G. executives into prominent local citizens. They own big houses like Mr. Haas’s, with its three chimneys and its views of Southport Harbor and Long Island Sound in the distance. Some are well-known contributors to arts groups and private schools..."
Please allow me to introduce myself
I'm a man of wealth and taste...
That Barton Fink Feeling Fri Mar 20 19:39:47 2009 CDT #
Some Investor Guy says:
Is there a consolidated list somewhere of all of the guarantee funds and guarantors? You know FDIC NCUA TARP TALF MBIA AMBAC AIG etc.
Some Investor Guy Fri Mar 20 19:39:48 2009 CDT #
Some Investor Guy says:
I am also curious who is selling credit default protection on the US Treasury. Are they based in the US? Do they have some kind of natural hedge? Are they betting if the US Treasury defaults, no one will be able to enforce the contract anyhow?
Some Investor Guy Fri Mar 20 19:41:45 2009 CDT #
EvilHenryPaulson says:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/fd01b70c-1584-11de-b9a9-0000779fd2ac.html
The CFTC has filed charges against 15 alleged Ponzi schemes so far this year, compared with 13 during the whole of 2008. If the rate were sustained, the regulator could end the year filling more than 60 cases, officials said.
US regulators have said they are detecting more scams than before as the publicity surrounding Mr Madoff‘s case prompts some investors to question the credibility of returns.
But this is the first time a senior regulator has publicly put the number of investigation in the “hundreds”.
EvilHenryPaulson Fri Mar 20 19:41:54 2009 CDT #
bobn says:
That Barton Fink Feeling: I like the Stones reference.
bobn Fri Mar 20 19:42:19 2009 CDT #
reptillian says:
"National Association, Paola, Kansas"
Think about that. A bank in payola failed.
reptillian Fri Mar 20 19:46:04 2009 CDT #
Sandi Rubinspan says:
There is a time in everyone's life where reality rises like a great white from the depths and strikes ( probably not there, it's too small) but some other place on the body. The person needs to reach deeply, summoning all hidden strength, and say **** it, I will spend money on useless and frivolous trinkets. I will support "our" credit card companies in their heroic quest to employ zero percent taxpayer money at 30 pct interest.
These are the fine people. These are the deserving. The people of Ronald Reagan and the Bush family. Barbara Bush correctly noted that black people holed up in the Texas stadium never had it so good. How compassionate is that !
So if your unemployed, underemployed, or scared of the same, get your ass to the best of breed, Walmart, and buy. Global trade will save you.
Sandi Rubinspan Fri Mar 20 19:50:47 2009 CDT #
d4of11 says:
On Thursday, Cheryle Campbell answered the phone at Harold Poling’s house in Bloomfield, Mich., where she said she had worked as a housekeeper for 20 years. She said she was not surprised to hear that Douglas Poling had decided to give back his bonus. “You’d think, being in the kind of job he is, that he’d be one of those sharks,” she said. “But he’s not at all.”
funny times in america
d4of11 Fri Mar 20 19:52:19 2009 CDT #
reptillian says:
"http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/fd01b70c-1584-11de-b9a9-0000779fd2ac.html
The CFTC has filed charges against 15 alleged Ponzi schemes so far this year, compared with 13 during the whole of 2008. If the rate were sustained, the regulator could end the year filling more than 60 cases, officials said."
There is an article at Reuters about "rampant ponzimonium."
reptillian Fri Mar 20 19:56:52 2009 CDT #
Mr. Beach says:
Read here for an exceptional writeup on CDS on US debt.
Another commentator posted a link to this blog a few days ago:
http://www.acredittrader.com/?p=81
Mr. Beach Fri Mar 20 19:57:08 2009 CDT #
Virgil says:
I'm surprised the credit union story isn't getting more headlines. 57 billion is a lot of money -I guess the fact the public doesn't know the names of wescorp and US central means that the media don't think it's important.
Virgil Fri Mar 20 19:58:23 2009 CDT #
EvilHenryPaulson says:
It wasn't $57bn lost, all we know is the gross insured size... it's big, but it won't be big news until we hear about the losses
Parent Post
EvilHenryPaulson Fri Mar 20 20:02:22 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
New Thread: Credit Unions, Bank Failures, and More
http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2009/03/credit-unions-bank-failures-and-more.html ( 0 comments ...You could be FIRST! )
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CRbot Fri Mar 20 20:01:51 2009 CDT #
d4of11 says:
I'm surprised the credit union story isn't getting more headlines. 57 billion is a lot of money -I guess the fact the public doesn't know the names of wescorp and US central means that the media don't think it's important.
the names yes but also the public can only absorb so many billions per week... it begins to blur
d4of11 Fri Mar 20 20:02:21 2009 CDT #
Comrade De Chaos says:
"I am also curious who is selling credit default protection on the US Treasury."
if the maturity is short, almost everyone i selling those. (I wish I could lol )
Comrade De Chaos Fri Mar 20 20:03:24 2009 CDT #
Basel Too says:
this is interesting, but too soon to tell.
Obama Hesitant on Move to Tax Bonuses
President Obama hesitated Friday to endorse legislation to severely tax bonuses paid to executives of companies that accepted taxpayer bailout funds.
The White House said instead that it would assess the bill’s potential effect on efforts to stabilize the financial system.
Basel Too Fri Mar 20 20:04:59 2009 CDT #
That Barton Fink Feeling says:
In the NYT today, Joe Nocera argues we're all being too hard on poor AIG. It's OK to be mad, but remember -- don't get too mad. This is business, folks! His is a Clintonian pragmatist's line of "we bought it, now don't break it further."
To be fair, he does spend a few words railing about the bailout of AIG's counterparties.
But mainly Nocera, and the Times, are showing their true colors here: their institutional cheerleading made them not-so-silent accomplices to the bubble (and cozy beneficiaries during the flush years). Now in catch-up and explain-away mode, they want to go back to business as usual, with as little grumbling from the little people as possible.
Populism is the *last* thing they want to encourage at the paper of (heh heh) "record":
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/21/business/21nocera.html?_r=1&hp
That Barton Fink Feeling Fri Mar 20 20:06:35 2009 CDT #
bobn says:
Comrade De Chaos: what is stop[ing you from selling CDS? Nothing stopped AIG. Thanks to Gramm and CLinton, there is no regulation whatsover.
bobn Fri Mar 20 20:06:42 2009 CDT #
scone says:
reptillian says:
There is an article at Reuters about "rampant ponzimonium."
.
Groan.
.
In other news, Reuters says North Dakota is saying, "what recession?"
http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSTRE52J3R120090320
scone Fri Mar 20 20:06:46 2009 CDT #
Sandi Rubinspan says:
After a 30 year ride which paid off handsomely, I sold all my stock holdings in 2006. I am concerned that the market has a 50 % decline from here. Besides, I am too old to be wrong on the stock market.
That being said, why would anyone invest capital in the US stock market, now ? There is a 93 % correlation (multiple linear regression) with a certain function that suggests that the betting crowd (former investment banks who know what your brokerage account is poised too do)are pumping to dump.
Buy.. Buy ... don't sell it's too late ... buy ... Birdie. You lovely thing.
Sandi Rubinspan Fri Mar 20 20:23:05 2009 CDT #
central_scrutinizer says:
President Obama hesitated Friday to endorse legislation to severely tax bonuses paid to executives of companies that accepted taxpayer bailout funds.
He's gonna be in a tough spot, unless Reid tables the bill in the Senate to take the heat for him. Dodd is in too much trouble to lead the charge against it, and I'm guessing a good chunk of the GOP would love the chance to dare Obama to veto such a popular bill.
central_scrutinizer Fri Mar 20 20:32:15 2009 CDT #
Sandi Rubinspan says:
Ok Scrut
The game is definately on. The rich are raking the taxpayer because they own the game. They would love to derail the cash flow from TALF and the FDIC and the Fed quantatative easing. The Plantaion Capitalists, Southern Congressman ( who said the Civil War was resolved) want to destroy public programs.
Perhaps O'Bama is hesitant to give them a chip before the 3rd quarter.
Sandi Rubinspan Fri Mar 20 20:47:16 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
I hear real estate is still way too high in Colorado, with people thinking every home should be $400,000 ... and I think they need a few more wake up calls there... :*
Anonymous Sat Mar 21 00:28:14 2009 CDT #
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