Comments for "Ford U.S. March sales fall 40.9%"
GrandOldTurkey says:
Furst?
GrandOldTurkey Wed Apr 1 11:08:07 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
This comment thread has been HALO-IZED by CRbot.
http://realize.org/cr/halokit.php?halourl=http://www.haloscan.com/comments/calculatedrisk/5431815292220766274
CRbot Wed Apr 1 11:09:18 2009 CDT #
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins says:
Pretty soon we'll catch up with the initial downturn, and the rate of shrinkage will decrease substantially!
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins Wed Apr 1 11:09:26 2009 CDT #
Clown Capital says:
When a company's silver lining is that they're the best of the worst, well, maybe they shouldn't be in business...
Clown Capital Wed Apr 1 11:10:39 2009 CDT #
Morocco Bama says:
BACON IS PEOPLE
Morocco Bama Wed Apr 1 11:11:20 2009 CDT #
ARGH says:
April 1 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner’s plan to remove toxic assets from bank balance sheets will fail to revitalize the financial system, “Black Swan” author Nassim Nicholas Taleb said.
“I don’t understand why I as a taxpayer need to subsidize those who failed, by giving them options so they can rebuild their balance sheets,” he said. “Taxpayers take the downside and Wall Street as usual is going to take the upside, another classical problem of socializing the losses, privatizing the gains.”
Taleb said it’s “shocking” that the government would allow banks to estimate the value of the toxic assets that remain on their books because there is effectively no market for the securities, making them almost impossible to value.
“I don’t understand letting banks mark to market, after all this incompetence,” he said. “Why don’t we allow people to mark their house at what they think the value of their house is?”
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a7DbIc6WLhmU&refer=home
ARGH Wed Apr 1 11:11:39 2009 CDT #
EvilHenryPaulson says:
Byzantine_Ruins
not until next fall really
although there ought to be some mighty inventory clearance soon
EvilHenryPaulson Wed Apr 1 11:12:42 2009 CDT #
Morocco Bama says:
Not as steep of a YOY decline as February. Maybe we've hit bottom.
Morocco Bama Wed Apr 1 11:13:18 2009 CDT #
Mannwich says:
Green shoots.
Mannwich Wed Apr 1 11:14:14 2009 CDT #
Ministry of Truth says:
So what is it for GM?
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Barack Obama's administration remains optimistic that General Motors Corp can restructure without going to bankruptcy court, a senior administration official said on Wednesday.
The official reiterated the White House's position, however, that "targeted use of the bankruptcy code" could be employed if necessary.
"We remain optimistic that significant re-structuring can be executed without the use of the bankruptcy code," the official told Reuters.
Ministry of Truth Wed Apr 1 11:16:24 2009 CDT #
EvilHenryPaulson says:
Ministry of Truth,
Equity holders diluted to oblivion
Debt holders cut in half
Pension holders cut in half
Those cut in half, get the new equity
Either agree out of court on a plan, or have one imposed by the court
EvilHenryPaulson Wed Apr 1 11:21:26 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
"Ministry of Truth,
Equity holders diluted to oblivion
Debt holders cut in half
Pension holders cut in half
Those cut in half, get the new equity "
I like that plan. When do we get to apply it to the banks?
Parent Post
Blackhalo Wed Apr 1 12:16:06 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Well, at least German machine tool orders fell YOY more than Ford sales.
Anonymous Wed Apr 1 11:21:32 2009 CDT #
hopeinsd says:
“Why don’t we allow people to mark their house at what they think the value of their house is?”
This is exactly what we did from 2003 to 2007, and that was an economic boom time. So there couldn't be a downside to letting the banks do the same.
hopeinsd Wed Apr 1 11:21:39 2009 CDT #
EvilHenryPaulson says:
hopeinsd
more or less banks are already doing that, booking the value far above the market value. it's not enough
EvilHenryPaulson Wed Apr 1 11:25:54 2009 CDT #
ARGH says:
This is exactly what we did from 2003 to 2007, and that was an economic boom time. So there couldn't be a downside to letting the banks do the same.
--------------------------------------------
Wonderful logic.. last time it put imaginary wealth into the hands of the house owners but now the owners are sponsoring the banks instead. What which does not kill you the last time.. comes back and tries again! It just might work.
ARGH Wed Apr 1 11:26:40 2009 CDT #
Yearning to Learn says:
Seems to me that our administration should be looking more at how Chrysler/GM actions will affect Ford.
Ford seems to be the best of the bunch. Perhaps we should focus on keeping them alive?
Yearning to Learn Wed Apr 1 11:31:07 2009 CDT #
Yearning to Learn says:
is JsKit down again? test.
It's astonishing how many posts do not show.
Yearning to Learn Wed Apr 1 11:31:56 2009 CDT #
JimPortlandOR says:
Over 700,000 new whiners without jobs, F down in 40% in sales, and what does MarketWatch say?
New Bull Market!
JimPortlandOR Wed Apr 1 11:33:43 2009 CDT #
Angry Saver says:
Stiglitz falls short of exposing the devious nature of wall street, banks and the Geithner PPIP plan.
Here's one scam that is sure to occur:
A hedge fund, private equity fund or wall street firm sets up a "new" entity which is thinly capitalized. This shell/sham entity will then receive lines of credit from banks that are non-recourse. The sham company will then buy any F#cking @SSet that the banks try to sell and at any price the bank needs. 2% management fees and 20% of short term profits will be siphoned off until the scam collapses under its own weight.
Some plan.
Angry Saver Wed Apr 1 11:34:37 2009 CDT #
Bob the Builder says:
Nope. No non recourse financing availablle from"banks". Only from the fed. and the PPIP requires 500M AUM to play. I hate this plan but the scam you concoct aint the flaw.
Parent Post
Bob the Builder Wed Apr 1 13:05:25 2009 CDT #
Black Star Ranch says:
"Perhaps we should focus on keeping them [Ford] alive?"
Amen.......
+2
Black Star Ranch Wed Apr 1 11:35:36 2009 CDT #
Bob the Builder says:
But then again why should "we" do anything. Any reader/ poster on this blog is in no position to call the shots. You may choose only how to spend/ save you money/ Wether to pay your taxes or pay the penalty and how much time you waste trying to influence a process that doesnt give a flying wet turd what you think.
Parent Post
Bob the Builder Wed Apr 1 13:08:12 2009 CDT #
Michael says:
Actually, our think tank has great influence in mind transference that influences many people to get on board, and get up off their asses and lazy brains to actively participate in active reform. Be that pointing out the injustices for all to see or getting out on the street and making their presence known, these are amoung the activities we influence.
Tax Day Tea Party
http://taxdayteaparty.com/
Parent Post
Michael Wed Apr 1 13:22:44 2009 CDT #
Stuart says:
Somewhere, some braindead headline writer with an agenda is going to write..
Car Sales rebound: Ford reported that YoY for the month of March, sales improved at an 11.7% rate from last month's YoY rate. Wait for it.
Stuart Wed Apr 1 11:36:07 2009 CDT #
Ken says:
Can't something be done so that economic statistics reflect more than year-to-year changes. The auto sales were already down a year ago. What are they compared to two or three or five years ago? Wouldn't that be significantly more meaningful?
Ken Wed Apr 1 11:36:20 2009 CDT #
Michael says:
People can't think long term.
Parent Post
Michael Wed Apr 1 12:26:25 2009 CDT #
kahni says:
First due to JS-Kit eating all the earlier posts?
kahni Wed Apr 1 11:36:31 2009 CDT #
Turbo says:
The rate of economic collapse appears to be subsiding (for now), which in the past has coincided with recession bear market bottoms. Should give everyone a nice window (6 months, maybe a year) to buy a hobby farm and prepare for a world of persistant 10% of gdp federal budget deficits and 100 million baby boomers looking to confiscate wealth from anyone and everyone else to fund their retirement and healthcare "entitlements".
Turbo Wed Apr 1 11:36:57 2009 CDT #
ghostfacedinvestah says:
What was the month over month change? That seems to be all the market cares about anymore.
ghostfacedinvestah Wed Apr 1 11:37:19 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Jesse:
SP Futures Hourly Update at Noon
CRbot Wed Apr 1 11:37:59 2009 CDT #
NateTG says:
"Can't something be done so that economic statistics reflect more than year-to-year changes. The auto sales were already down a year ago. What are they compared to two or three or five years ago? Wouldn't that be significantly more meaningful?"
CR calculated the 'fleet replacement rate' recently. It's probably still well above 20 years, but we've got to wait for the other automakers' numbers.
NateTG Wed Apr 1 11:38:29 2009 CDT #
bearly says:
It's nice to see all the protesters getting out of hand at the G20. But what about here ? I think there should be massive protests at bank HQs, Wall St, PIMCO and most of all - In front of CNBC.
The level of looting and smug defense, even worshiping the looting on CNBC, is deserving of masses carrying NOOSES.
bearly Wed Apr 1 11:38:58 2009 CDT #
singe says:
should be a good piece of news he?
singe Wed Apr 1 11:41:41 2009 CDT #
debtinator says:
They should negotiate with Honda, maybe they can reach an accord.
debtinator Wed Apr 1 11:43:32 2009 CDT #
TCA says:
Ford seems to be the best of the bunch. Perhaps we should focus on keeping them alive?
Yes, this is tragic. GM and Chrysler keep dipping into our pockets via Uncle Sugar while Ford trudges forward trying to find some way to stay viable on its own. Bankruptcy can't come soon enough for those two. I'll certainly never buy a car from either of them ever again.
TCA Wed Apr 1 11:44:31 2009 CDT #
Tim waiting for 2012 says:
Anyone think we test the lows of this morning later today. I say it is a remote possibility.
Tim waiting for 2012 Wed Apr 1 11:45:57 2009 CDT #
Calculated Risk says:
YTL, I hope to have the comments improved very soon.
I guess GM will be off 50%, and Chrysler 65% or more. Toyota might only be off 30% or less ... just guesses.
best to all
Calculated Risk Wed Apr 1 11:47:01 2009 CDT #
Tim waiting for 2012 says:
Q&A
Anyone Think that some of the big banks and GE is buying CDS against themselves so they can be too big to fail???
Tim waiting for 2012 Wed Apr 1 11:47:38 2009 CDT #
EvilHenryPaulson says:
Ford ,,, there's more tan you know
bit longer fuse, same bomb
EvilHenryPaulson Wed Apr 1 11:48:00 2009 CDT #
EvilHenryPaulson says:
actually, Ford's bomb is a bit bigger... the price to pay for the longer fuse
Parent Post
EvilHenryPaulson Wed Apr 1 11:51:28 2009 CDT #
debtinator says:
Ford's last bomb was Crystall Skull
Parent Post
debtinator Wed Apr 1 11:53:21 2009 CDT #
Tim waiting for 2012 says:
EHP
I agree Ford will ask for money later this year
Tim waiting for 2012 Wed Apr 1 11:50:35 2009 CDT #
Dead_Monkey_Bounce says:
Kill GM, Ford survives. Sophie's choice.
Dead_Monkey_Bounce Wed Apr 1 11:51:48 2009 CDT #
JS-Kit says:
Munch Munch Munch... Still hungry for Posts...... Munch Munch Munch
JS-Kit Wed Apr 1 11:53:46 2009 CDT #
ac says:
Stiglitz falls short of exposing the devious nature of wall street, banks and the Geithner PPIP plan.
It's worth noting again that this is just the natural consequence of the inflationary fiat ponzi finance scam that our entire economy is based on.
Both the Marxists and the Fascists love inflation because it allows the government to stealthily rob the population of a country without explicit taxation.
Maybe the Marxists meant well but the irony is the whole thing backfired, the financial industry outsmarted and outmaneuvered them and co-opted the inflationary redistribution of wealth for their own purposes and used it to rob the middle class blind.
Now they have the means to take over the government and continue the robbery.
These Marxists simply can't grasp that being well-intentioned doesn't make up for being dull-witted and ponderous.
That won't stop them from trying until there's only a smoking hole left in the ground.
Another once great nation succumbs to the inflationary fiat disease.
ac Wed Apr 1 11:54:24 2009 CDT #
TCA says:
I agree Ford will ask for money later this year
Why not? Clearly the deck is stacked against them.
TCA Wed Apr 1 11:54:54 2009 CDT #
nova says:
Kill Ford, Schwin Lives!
nova Wed Apr 1 11:54:59 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
I hope so, I have a lot of my IRA in DIIB.
Parent Post
Blackhalo Wed Apr 1 12:01:00 2009 CDT #
EvilHenryPaulson says:
dead monkey
market is much too small right now for the market share gain to keep ford alive
global companies too
EvilHenryPaulson Wed Apr 1 11:56:35 2009 CDT #
EvilHenryPaulson says:
TCA
You haven't followed Ford at all, you have an emotional argument as an underinformed taxpayer and consumer. If GM and Chrysler with all their factories/inventory/dealers were vaporized by aliens overnight, Ford would still be bankrupt
EvilHenryPaulson Wed Apr 1 11:58:13 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
'If GM and Chrysler with all their factories/inventory/dealers were vaporized by aliens overnight, Ford would still be bankrupt.'
They have all been bankrupt for years - only now, it is no longer possible to deny the truth.
This process will continue in many, many parts of both the global economy and American society.
Parent Post
Anonymous Wed Apr 1 12:36:45 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Ritholz:
SEC Examining Oversight of Credit Rating Agencies
CRbot Wed Apr 1 12:02:11 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
"SEC Examining Oversight of Credit Rating Agencies
"Yeah right. Like that is going to happen. If the CRAs actually worked, there would be no AAA assets for Timmy's plan.
Parent Post
Blackhalo Wed Apr 1 12:07:46 2009 CDT #
Yalt says:
Yeah right. Like that is going to happen. If the CRAs actually worked, there would be no AAA assets for Timmy's plan.
PPIP requires that the assets were rated AAA at origination. It doesn't matter what they're rated now.
That horse is out of the barn and there's no problem now with sending the regulatory agencies in to fix the door.
Parent Post
Yalt Wed Apr 1 13:07:31 2009 CDT #
Bob the Builder says:
"Yeah right. Like that is going to happen. If the CRAs actually worked, there would be no AAA assets for Timmy's plan.
WHat does "work" mean exactly? What do you want from a CRA other than to do your homework for you?
Parent Post
Bob the Builder Wed Apr 1 13:14:28 2009 CDT #
Bob the Builder says:
Since ratings agencies provide opinions only and stand behind the first ammendment, perhaps the SEC should also consider regulating CNBC and the WSJ?
Parent Post
Bob the Builder Wed Apr 1 13:12:09 2009 CDT #
trip says:
Have you driven your Ford to the gunshop lately?
trip Wed Apr 1 12:04:12 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
"Ford would still be bankrupt"
Are they that deep in debt? It would seem that would allow them an awful lot of market share, and a better bargaining position with suppliers, dealers and labor.
Blackhalo Wed Apr 1 12:04:13 2009 CDT #
Mel says:
You can't over blame std&poor and moodys--they were the lookouts employed by the crooks pretending to work for the investor. Without their well compensated lying, the mess would never have gotten so large. Some amart DA should be able to find a reason to lock up the bastards.
Mel Wed Apr 1 12:05:22 2009 CDT #
hopeinsd says:
that was a joke up there. Should have used the smiley face
hopeinsd Wed Apr 1 12:06:10 2009 CDT #
Barley says:
I'll give 'em some slack...The weather has been lousy so foot traffic is down.
One thing I have noticed is that most car companies are advertising on TV again.
Barley Wed Apr 1 12:07:56 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
"I'll give 'em some slack...The weather has been lousy so foot traffic is down.
One thing I have noticed is that most car companies are advertising on TV again."
LOL! Kick 'em while there down, why don't ya'.
Parent Post
Blackhalo Wed Apr 1 12:31:11 2009 CDT #
scone says:
YTL, I hope to have the comments improved very soon. -Bill
Please and thank you, Bill.
scone Wed Apr 1 12:07:57 2009 CDT #
EvilHenryPaulson says:
Blackhalo says:
Are they that deep in debt?
Yes.
EvilHenryPaulson Wed Apr 1 12:08:19 2009 CDT #
EvilHenryPaulson says:
also,
suppliers don't have much more to give.
labor can only capitulate in bankruptcy, it's not the new hires but outstanding pensions that need cutting now
the gain in market share is not that great (it is split with all the other remaining automakers)
keep in mind the dramatic struggles other excellently run automakers like Honda and BMW have faced. They didn't have the debt problem going in, or overexposure to any one market (regional or credit worthiness), etc
I would debate the finer points if it were even a remote possibility. Ford doesn't have to run the gauntlet first, which is of tremendous value (as you demonstrate here)... but beyond that, no better than GM
Parent Post
EvilHenryPaulson Wed Apr 1 12:12:09 2009 CDT #
Tim waiting for 2012 says:
@CRBOT New system will be two of Obamas thumbs up, Split or two thumbs down.
@blackhalo;
Ford + Labor Costs - capital invesmtent = Trouble
Tim waiting for 2012 Wed Apr 1 12:08:26 2009 CDT #
Interesting Times says:
FYI - Folks whose posts are being eaten...
After submitting your comment:
*** wait for the "Reply" "Delete" buttons to appear before Refreshing comments ****
That is all.
Interesting Times Wed Apr 1 12:10:17 2009 CDT #
wally says:
Ford seems to be the best of the bunch. Perhaps we should focus on keeping them alive?
Absolutely. That's worth far more to the US than dumping money into nothing.
wally Wed Apr 1 12:11:50 2009 CDT #
ATM card and $19 in the bank says:
Re: ratings agencies
Recent WSJ Finance confab produced an interesting recommendation: let rating agency compensation vest over time based on the accuracy of their predictions. Not bad -- seems to eliminate the various problems with other comp plans (i.e. conflict of interest if the issuer pays, free-rider problem if investors pay), plus it addresses the reasonable complaint from the ratings agencies that they have as much a right to seek profits as any other company (fine, seek profits then, but only if you accurately and prudently rate credit and those ratings stand the test of time).
ATM card and $19 in the bank Wed Apr 1 12:12:41 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
"Recent WSJ Finance confab produced an interesting recommendation: let rating agency compensation vest over time based on the accuracy of their predictions."
Can this be applied to stock analist too, please? And Cramer and the rest of CNBC? I want those bottom callers to take it in the wallet. The "lightning round" alone should cost Cramer millions a year.
Parent Post
Blackhalo Wed Apr 1 12:22:36 2009 CDT #
Bob the Builder says:
1. Rating agency comp is crap already. That why so many leave to go to banks, insurance companies etc.
2. Comp at most CRAs already vests on a snail pace schedule relative to the big oney makers.
3. CRA dont make promises about future performance or set target prices. Matter of fact they make no statement about market risk. They only define credit risk for various bonds. The definition of Aaa or AAA varies from shop to shop but non promise a bullet proof avoidance of loss.
Parent Post
Bob the Builder Wed Apr 1 13:18:44 2009 CDT #
Tim waiting for 2012 says:
<h1 id="articleTitle" class="articleTitle">New partnership will ensure Saturn's future, Danbury dealer says</h1>
"In the next three weeks, we will announce a long-term partnership that will provide Saturn with world-class cars," said Todd Ingersoll, who owns Saturn of Danbury and Saturn of Watertown.
Tim waiting for 2012 Wed Apr 1 12:13:12 2009 CDT #
Michael says:
I don't understand why 75% of the people who do not receive a pension, have to subsidize the 25% who do?
Michael Wed Apr 1 12:13:26 2009 CDT #
Dirk van Dijk says:
A pension is basically a loan by the worker to the company. They could have asked for higher current wages and less pension/post retirement HC. Now that the company is in trouble, it looks like that loan is going to get a haircut. Why should that loan, aka pension, get cut more than a loan made by a bondholder. Alternatively, if a company that has a 401K matching program and later gets in trouble, should the courts be able to claw back part of the 401K's of the workers? Why should defined contribution plans be treated more favorably than defined benefit ones?
Parent Post
Dirk van Dijk Wed Apr 1 15:43:49 2009 CDT #
Michael says:
BO and Hillary at Fuckingham Palace.
Michael Wed Apr 1 12:14:52 2009 CDT #
TCA says:
Not as steep of a YOY decline as February. Maybe we've hit bottom.
Maybe. We have to hit bottom at some point and I know there will be mass denial when it happens and we won't recognize it until many months (years) later, but I have a hard time believing everything has been solved. While job losses are traditionally lagging indicators, I doubt rapidly accelerating job losses are. Maybe things are great at GS, but from my perspective it seems that things are falling apart in the real world.
TCA Wed Apr 1 12:16:53 2009 CDT #
Br\'er Dawg says:
Have you driven a Ford into a bank lately?
Have you traded a Ford for a gun lately?
Heck, use the excess inventory to pay off pension obligations for the win-win.
In other news March auto sales in California are going to be very good. I bought one. Unfortunately April the sales tax goes up to anywhere from 8.25% to as much as 10.75%. This is a State that taxes everything unlike places like MA that exempt food/clothing. This is also a state with a rich person income tax that considers $43k/yr rich and hits 9.3% plus a new surcharge. As goes California so goes...
Br\'er Dawg Wed Apr 1 12:17:23 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
As goes California so goes...
...nothing.
Really, that is just one of the truthes that will have to be faced. The world does not revolve around California, and Californians aren't the center of anything but their own universes. Yes, yes, we have all heard how large California is, how important, how powerful, etc., etc. The state is bankrupt, its economy no longer a model for anything but virtual fortunes being made with virtual money.
Parent Post
Anonymous Wed Apr 1 12:43:32 2009 CDT #
Lawyerliz says:
Hahahaha, js kit.
See if you get this one.
Lawyerliz Wed Apr 1 12:18:01 2009 CDT #
debtinator says:
They must be tired, they're having a good year.
debtinator Wed Apr 1 12:19:43 2009 CDT #
TCA says:
I, for one, am glad we don't have to put up with Haloscan anymore. ;)
TCA Wed Apr 1 12:20:44 2009 CDT #
Lawyerliz says:
So if NEXT month is only drops 34% then we are really doing well! And then if in 6 months Ford is still in business maybe it will stop dropping!!!
Lawyerliz Wed Apr 1 12:22:52 2009 CDT #
cd says:
dawg,
surprised you bought on save cash before tax hype..
later this year, its going to be a give away...
Did you notice that westoaks chrysler is gone..used to be five star, dealer owner sold it to Rusnak at best time...Rusnak shut it down, probably had to based off the money they spent on the bmw bldg next door....
cd Wed Apr 1 12:26:27 2009 CDT #
EvilHenryPaulson says:
If there were another 5-10 years of MEW bubble boom years, Ford and GM probably would have completed restructuring on their own.
The problem is we're going to have 30-50% fewer sales over the next 5 years compared to what they were forecasting in their adverse scenario even 1 or 2 years ago.
The 3 smart things Ford did: sold Jaguar + Land Rover before the bust, took out loans against every asset they own from the factories right down to the nameplate trademark, and used their available lines of credit to the maximum amount last fall. So they had more cash to burn, even though they had been burning through cash faster than GM, and Ford has a few months of lag time on GM.
That's Ford in a nutshell. More debt : assets, few more months of cash on hand.
If you do look at their balance sheets, be aware that they push vehicles on to their dealers at MSRP value and record it as an asset, even though they may have to take the vehicles back or if they sell for less than their book value. With HUGE inventory, they've all been shuffling vehicles around, trying to hide them and not hurt their balance sheet
EvilHenryPaulson Wed Apr 1 12:26:54 2009 CDT #
Outsider says:
"That's Ford in a nutshell. More debt : assets, few more months of cash on hand."
Sounds like the average American's plan.
Parent Post
Outsider Wed Apr 1 12:29:42 2009 CDT #
Werner says:
Sweet, Sweet , Sweet ! Another good day . The irresponsible credit junkies are starting to pay the piper.
And happy AAA-lying and money-printing .
(You will pay the price for money-printing soon !)
Werner Wed Apr 1 12:28:18 2009 CDT #
EvilHenryPaulson says:
one more smooth move Ford did, they swapped junior debt for senior secured debt at 65¢/$. still far away from not going bankrupt, but at least they're trying
EvilHenryPaulson Wed Apr 1 12:28:42 2009 CDT #
Pavel says:
"I don't understand why 75% of the people who do not receive a pension, have to subsidize the 25% who do?"
We can try to correct the imbalance by seeing to it that everyone receives a pension they can live on. Or we can arrange it so that nobody receives a pension.
Pavel Wed Apr 1 12:28:53 2009 CDT #
Michael says:
No pensions for public workers would save the taxpayer a lot of money.
Parent Post
Michael Wed Apr 1 12:39:58 2009 CDT #
Bob the Builder says:
Or we can tax all pensions at 90% Fed 10% State and 3% local!
Parent Post
Bob the Builder Wed Apr 1 13:20:23 2009 CDT #
Black Star Ranch says:
"Kill Ford, Schwin Lives!"
LOL. Perfect. Huffy too. (Huffy controls 80 percent of the U.S. bicycle market)
Black Star Ranch Wed Apr 1 12:29:59 2009 CDT #
debtinator says:
Their next big play? Maybe Ford can open a theater.
debtinator Wed Apr 1 12:30:56 2009 CDT #
punditry says:
geez Nova, your dating yourself with schwin....Trek is the hot new Co.
punditry Wed Apr 1 12:33:08 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
Anyone see Frontline: "Ten Trillion and Counting?"
Blackhalo Wed Apr 1 12:34:38 2009 CDT #
Lifeguard1999 says:
Anyone see Frontline: "Ten Trillion and Counting?"
Yeah, I made my wife watch it with me. I liked it. She fell asleep.
Parent Post
Lifeguard1999 Wed Apr 1 13:01:09 2009 CDT #
ATM card and $19 in the bank says:
Yeah, but does Trek offer a banana seat? I think that's what nova misses...
ATM card and $19 in the bank Wed Apr 1 12:36:11 2009 CDT #
Turbo says:
Bear and WaMu were essentially prepackaged bankrupcies. Since banks are essentially ponzi schemes, prepackaged bankrupcy can only occur if they're absorbed into an even bigger ponzi. There is no Chapter 11 for global banks - your choices are bailout, nationalization or systemic collapse. The banking system should be regulated to the same extent as the nuclear industry, since it's become rather obvious that interconnected, global banking system = economic neutron bomb.
Turbo Wed Apr 1 12:38:47 2009 CDT #
Comrade Scott (in VA) says:
Angry Saver writes:
Here's one scam that is sure to occur:
<snip>
Amen brother...and of course, can the average joe small investor get in on any of that largesse? Hells No! Only Wall Street Insiders...I'm starting to get really angry myself.
Comrade Scott (in VA) Wed Apr 1 12:39:15 2009 CDT #
debtinator says:
refresh comments = random comments
debtinator Wed Apr 1 12:41:05 2009 CDT #
EvilHenryPaulson says:
Cervelo is world's #1 bike
EvilHenryPaulson Wed Apr 1 12:42:03 2009 CDT #
Michael says:
Some day the stock market will discount the recent bad news.
Michael Wed Apr 1 12:42:26 2009 CDT #
Pavel says:
"No pensions for public workers would save the taxpayer a lot of money."
Not providing you with street paving, water and sewer services and fire and police protection would also save the taxpayer a lot of money. You first?
Pavel Wed Apr 1 12:42:51 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Pavel -
keep trying, but don't expect it to work. It seems as if a number of Americans are bent on proving that truly, they are not capable of maintaining even the level of social cohesion that one finds in Russia.
Orlov is too glib by half, but there is more truth resting in his original comparison of superpower collapse than many of the posters here well ever be able to understand, even as they experience it.
Parent Post
Anonymous Wed Apr 1 12:49:14 2009 CDT #
Yalt says:
...they are not capable of maintaining even the level of social cohesion that one finds in Russia.
I've never quite understood this conceit that social cohesion was lacking in Russia. The fact that many people continued to go to work post-collapse despite not being paid for months, even years in some cases, seems to evidence quite considerable social cohesion. I have trouble imagining anything similar happening here, except perhaps in the nonprofit sector (like hospitals, schools, fire departments).
Parent Post
Yalt Wed Apr 1 13:10:45 2009 CDT #
Michael says:
With the unemployment rate as high as it is, I'm sure there would be plenty of qualified people to fill the positions.
Parent Post
Michael Wed Apr 1 12:58:27 2009 CDT #
ghostfacedinvestah says:
BTW, I checked out the websites of the American auto companies last night, to see what they had on offer. Really sad, Chrysler in particular. Just awful choices. Barely anything that resembled a normal sedan, other than the Sebring (the Dodge Avenger somewhat resembles a midsize car, the 300: what is up with that?). Dodge is selling THREE muscle cars. They don't have ONE compact car, not one. Can you imagine that? In 2009, not a single compact car for sale across all brands?
Jeep was the only brand that had anything worth salvaging, at least they were smart enough to keep their classic Wrangler around and pretty much unaltered.
Chrysler needs to be liquidated.
ghostfacedinvestah Wed Apr 1 12:43:29 2009 CDT #
TCA says:
Okay, I'm done commenting here until this wretched system is replaced. I've been putting up with JS-Kit since it was instituted and I refuse to wrestle with it anymore. To those of you who continue to fight the good fight, good luck. It's just not worth the headache.
TCA Wed Apr 1 12:45:58 2009 CDT #
Black Star Ranch says:
.....How do we compete against foreign manufacturing?
Take Huffy for instance. Huffy Bicycle Company (which owns the Huffy, Royce Union Bikes and American Sports Design brands as well as producing private brands for other companies) controlled 80 percent of the U.S. bicycle market. In 1998, the Huffy Corporation had sales of $584 million and a gross profit of $97.5 million.
Now? 483,000 jobs lost. (Bikes now made in China)
Forced 13½ to 15-hour shifts, from 7:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. seven days a week (Workers are at the factory 93 hours a week)
Wages are between 25-44-cents per hour - $16.68 for a 66-hour work week
Failure to work overtime is punished with a fine of two-days' wages; no overtime premium is paid
No health insurance or social security pension
Strict factory rules and harsh management; no talking during working hours
12 workers housed in each dark dormroom
Two meals a day; poor quality food
If workers complain or attempt to raise a grievance about the harsh working conditions, excessively long forced overtime hours or low wages, they are immediately fired. In late 1999, all the workers in the delivery section who went on strike were fired.
<h3 style="text-align: center;">
</h3>
Black Star Ranch Wed Apr 1 12:46:46 2009 CDT #
Outsider says:
"Forced 13½ to 15-hour shifts, from "...
BSR, where did you get that info? Is it obtainable?
Personally, if those are still the working conditions, I'd rather be dead. But that's just me.
Parent Post
Outsider Wed Apr 1 13:03:53 2009 CDT #
Chicago Dude says:
.....How do we compete against foreign manufacturing?
Take Huffy for instance. ....
Now? 483,000 jobs lost. (Bikes now made in China)
...
BSR - I own two bikes. Both handmade in the USA. One is an aluminum mountain bike, the other is a high-tech steel alloy road bike.
The mountain bike is about 12 years old and still in great shape despite me crashing it more times than I can remember. I bent the rear derailluer hanger a couple years ago thanks to a crash and some heavy grinding on the gears right afterwards. On a crappy bike that's it. Throw the bike away. One a nice bike, that's a $10 user-replaceable part made of a slightly softer material so it fails before the frame gets bent.
My road bike is the sweetest bike I've ever been on. I'm going to cry when it gets its first scratch. The high-tech steel is called OX Platinum:
OX Platinum is a proprietary superthermophillic (heat-loving) alloy, developed in partnership with the U.S. Steel Alliance. The composition of Chromium, Molybdenum, and Vanadium with an unprecedented 217 ksi ultimate tensile strength makes this alloy actually gain strength through a metallurgical transformation in the heat-affected zone as a result of welding or brazing. OX Platinum is highly temper-resistant, resulting in an 11% increase in fatigue life and a 20% increase in impact strength over the competition. The increased mechanical properties of OX Platinum allow for incredibly strong, yet lightweight frame designs with that legendary feel of steel ride quality.
Anyway, both of these bikes are more enjoyable than the cheap Chinese crap bikes that Huffy is selling. They last longer, weigh less, etc. Over lifetime of my bikes, they will cost LESS than having to replace junk bikes more frequently.
You can buy really great bikes in the $1000-2000 price range. They will be made in China, Taiwan, Italy, USA, and about a dozen other countries. It's a competitive industry with healthy manufacturers all over the world, mainly because a quality bike costs about the same to build no matter where it's built. For that reason, I bought bikes built in the USA. Someone in Europe would probably choose something built in Europe. If you don't do any research you'll likely end up with a Chinese or Taiwanese bike simply because they are the volume manufacturers.
Parent Post
Chicago Dude Wed Apr 1 13:50:14 2009 CDT #
scone says:
Around the Shire, we like Rivendell bikes:
http://www.rivbike.com/products/list/bicycle_models#product=none
scone Wed Apr 1 12:47:23 2009 CDT #
peAk says:
An initial auto bailout offered on a one-time basis stipulating a sink or swim scenario after that would have shown congressional support for both labor and the taxpayer, put real pressure on the companies to convert to some survival mode, and kept the government out of the way of private money making whatever offers market forces would have justified.
Administrative-congressional powers didn't overlook such a one-time do-or-die offer, but obviously considered and rejected it in favor of the open-ended offers, effectively killing any real incentive by auto directors or outside investors to reorganize the companies.
It is an ongoing reorganization charade and theft of generational funds, hiding in plain sight, no small thanks to the daily manufacturing of consent by the corrupt print and broadcast media and their slimy spokespersons.
Bearly, is the populace so "doped" as to be incapable of lawful, organized protest?
peAk Wed Apr 1 12:49:12 2009 CDT #
Turbo says:
Public pension are going to go the way of the doodoo soon enough. The unfunded liabilities are so massive they're already effectively dead, they just live on in the world of wishful thinking.
Turbo Wed Apr 1 12:50:08 2009 CDT #
abprosper says:
Turbo is right. Pensions will go. I This will be devastating to the flow of money and is incredibly deflationary though. A weak pension system means high senior poverty and where you don't have that a very high savings rate. If everyone who can ends up paying off the house ASAP and saving 25 to 30% in cash/gold/bonds as they do in Asia who is going to buy all the production and what are the going to invest in exactly?
A good chunk of the problem we have now is caused by the excess accumulation of cureency in Asia and elsewhere.
Parent Post
abprosper Wed Apr 1 12:56:19 2009 CDT #
Black Star Ranch says:
"Not providing you with street paving, water and sewer services and fire and police protection would also save the taxpayer a lot of money. You first?"
I moved to this place SPECIFICALLY because of no infrastructure as listed above.
Black Star Ranch Wed Apr 1 12:50:26 2009 CDT #
Br\'er Dawg says:
cd observes;
dawg,
surprised you bought on save cash before tax hype..
later this year, its going to be a give away...
Did you notice that westoaks chrysler is gone..used to be five star, dealer owner sold it to Rusnak at best time...Rusnak shut it down, probably had to based off the money they spent on the bmw bldg next door....
Lot's of changes in the region. No Volvo twixt Santa Barbara and the Valley for instance. The T.O. Auto Mall is seeing dealer consolidation. Oxnard is Vista, DCH and Bunnin. I refuse to repeat the Bunnin rumors. The Rusnak rumors speak for themselves. Did you see that Jan-Feb '08 7 series sales were 2212 and Jan-Feb '09 were 33? Yes, thirty-three.
I bought a well used Honda Pilot and an extended warranty at a low rate that is deductible for me. It was time no matter the sales tax rate. Coincidence.
Br\'er Dawg Wed Apr 1 12:50:39 2009 CDT #
abprosper says:
Sad about Ford Motors. They make a great product. If I had enough money I'd buy one
And thats where the problem lies. Too few people have money. I will NOT take on debt unless I have too and with the cost of a car in the mid twenties and wages low I can't afford to pay cash.
As for soultions the government is addicted to phony money and "big programs" rather than anything that will work.
If we wanted a system that will work for us we need to do four things.
#1 Control imports and immigration. I&I are the real killers
#2 Put money directly in peoples pockets, not "cash cards" not "incentives" but flat out cash use it as you wish. A lot of this will be saved or squirrled away but thats OK. Its good for the banks. This need to be permenent program, everyone who has been a US citizen for 18 years should get 1k a amonth auto adjusted and health care -- and no more (except for VA health benefits and retirements) this levels the spending fields a bit and serves to speed up money .
#3 concentrate on "real wealth" IP as an industry is not going to be the backbone of the economy. Simply there is too much "free" open source software, free entertainment and free warez. Worse as we move to streaming media and "download" nation we gut a lot of jobs. My ad-hoc guess (figuring 5+k video stores vs. netflix as an example ) is that 25 jobs are destroyed for each one created. This effects the whole of the industry. Hell I haven't bought a piece of software at full retail in years and its all legal open source stuff. As for media -- TV will hold on for a while as will books (people want the physical object) but anything else can be had cheap or free, either a good/legal substitute or for the less honest, warez. Sonce we can't do resource extraction we have to do value added manufacturing.
Since the ability to sell to others is limited (new markets can't/won't buy and want to export. existing markets have declining population and also want to export) we have to make it here, sell it here buy it here and keep others out, even if this hits quality. That is if Brazil isn't our future economic model.
#4 cut the work week. There really isn't that much work to be done anyway except (mostly) in low paid services. I'd suggest a 30 hour work week to start (4x 7.5 hou days) and as automation increases drop it to 28 or less Also there needs to be , 3 weeks mandatory federal leave and sick leave. No loopholes or exceptions save for emergencies.
if we don't do these things the "wage equals consumption" formula that keeps civilization alive will fail and we get either mass poverty or something like classic socialism
abprosper Wed Apr 1 12:51:10 2009 CDT #
ac says:
The banking system should be regulated to the same extent as the nuclear industry, since it's become rather obvious that interconnected, global banking system = economic neutron bomb.
There's a big problem with this kind of thinking:
With the nuclear industry there's not a lot of incentive as a regulator to do your job poorly. If you screw up you have a nuclear disaster that's likely to affect you and everyone you know.
Finance is very different:
If you screw up as a regulator you and all your Wall Street buddies are likely to get very rich. The negative effects will tend to be concentrated on Main Street but for you and your banking buddies it's super party time.
How many people got Ferrari's in the Hamptons from Chernobyl?
It's just not appropriate to compare regulation in these two contexts.
One is vastly more prone to corruption. In fact one might go as far as suspecting corruption to be the status quo in financial regulation - there's a huge payoff for it.
ac Wed Apr 1 12:51:44 2009 CDT #
EvilHenryPaulson says:
*groan*
http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2009/04/01/investment-survey-russell.html
Canada's money managers are more bullish on Canadian stocks than in past months, according to a survey of investment types released Wednesday
"Given the bargain-basement valuations that resulted, it's fitting that a solid 60 per cent say they are now bullish on Canadian equities," says Sadiq Adatia, chief investment officer of Russell Investments Canada Ltd.
EvilHenryPaulson Wed Apr 1 12:52:19 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
I was in Dearborn this morning and you could almost feel the fear in the air.
Anonymous Wed Apr 1 12:52:38 2009 CDT #
Yearning to Learn says:
<i>YTL, I hope to have the comments improved very soon</i>
Thanks, I totally appreciate the work you've been putting in on this. sorry to have griped.
Interesting Times: yes, waiting for the "reply" and "delete" to pop up does improve the posting percentage, but not all the way. (I think it was you who taught me that last week?)
sometimes (like earlier today), "reply" and "delete" NEVER popped up!
back to topic:
It seems inconceivable that NONE of the big three can survive. Are some of you saying that there isn't enough demand for cars to keep Ford going, EVEN IF we get rid of GM and Chrysler????
is that due to the lack of demand? or the debt that Ford has?
Yearning to Learn Wed Apr 1 12:53:31 2009 CDT #
scone says:
"Not providing you with street paving, water and sewer services and fire and police protection would also save the taxpayer a lot of money. You first?"
I moved to this place SPECIFICALLY because of no infrastructure as listed above.
.
What irks me is, paying taxes and not getting infrastructure as listed above, because the money went into the pockets of the local corrupt good 'ol boys.
scone Wed Apr 1 12:53:46 2009 CDT #
Mean Flurry Kitten says:
OK, You Americans are NOT THAT BAD (given this part of Galaxy). So There! Help? And this Planet not that Bad for a livable planet! SO Don't go on nuking each other because of your "economic depression". That is FUCKING ORDER from KITTENS supervising this shithole. Or else.
Mean Flurry Kitten Wed Apr 1 12:53:55 2009 CDT #
Tim waiting for 2012 says:
@Pavel BS argument. There is a difference between gold pated penions and providing a basic city services.
I went to a restaurant that served a 60 dollar hamburger. I should have to choose bewtween no hamburger or a 60 dollar one
Tim waiting for 2012 Wed Apr 1 12:54:47 2009 CDT #
Broker says:
"Commrade Mugabe Jr to replace FORD CEO with Louis Farrachan.The new model FORD ACORN to hit the markets in July. "
Bloomberg kind of news
Broker Wed Apr 1 12:55:28 2009 CDT #
Br\'er Dawg says:
Is it legal to shoot squirrel from the seat of your bicycle? If you run over a squirrel with your bicycle do you need to report it to the game warden?
Br\'er Dawg Wed Apr 1 12:56:06 2009 CDT #
Michael says:
MMM, Squirrel.
Parent Post
Michael Wed Apr 1 13:05:27 2009 CDT #
Lifeguard1999 says:
Dueling headlines:
1) Ford's car sales fell only 38.1% year over year.
2) Ford's monthly car sales rose 32.7% using month to month data!
3) Ford's car sales fall 62% from peak.
Ford sold 3,538 cars per day (on average) in February 2009.
Ford sold 4,241 cars per day (on average) in March 2009.
Ford sold 6,851 cars per day (on average) in March 2008.
Lifeguard1999 Wed Apr 1 12:57:03 2009 CDT #
Comrade Dazed and Amused says:
Another smart thing that Ford is doing: they are retooling their Cautitlan plant to build the Fiesta instead of the F-150. That, plus retooling other plants to build smaller platforms, probably represents a good part of the cash burn these days. It will put them in a very good position to recover the investment, and capture market share, once the vehicles launch in the US.
Comrade Dazed and Amused Wed Apr 1 12:57:36 2009 CDT #
Br\'er Dawg says:
Cowardly Anon baits with:
As goes California so goes...
...nothing.
Really, that is just one of the truths that will have to be faced. The world does not revolve around California, and Californians aren't the center of anything but their own universes. Yes, yes, we have all heard how large California is, how important, how powerful, etc., etc. The state is bankrupt, its economy no longer a model for anything but virtual fortunes being made with virtual money.
Yawn. Think France without the ability to print money. California is indeed the future. Just because that future is dystopic and unpleasant doesn't change the facts.
Br\'er Dawg Wed Apr 1 12:59:07 2009 CDT #
EvilHenryPaulson says:
Biggest change that was never accounted for were the retirement years going from 5 to 40, to be paid for out of the same 40 or so working years
EvilHenryPaulson Wed Apr 1 13:00:01 2009 CDT #
Mel says:
Michael said;----No pensions for public workers would save the taxpayer a lot of money.
Public salaries were lower because their benefits were better--it was a bargain made to save today's taxpayers from tomorrow's expenses. Payback can be a bitch.
Mel Wed Apr 1 13:00:41 2009 CDT #
Lifeguard1999 says:
GM U.S. March sales decline 44.7% to 156,380 units
Lifeguard1999 Wed Apr 1 13:02:21 2009 CDT #
Werner says:
Angry Saver says:
"Stiglitz falls short of exposing the devious nature of wall street, banks and the Geithner PPIP plan.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Angry Saver, here is a nice link (posted here the other day by CD I think) :
(http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=4EF8BA0ADAAA1B05)
In the 2nd half of "Geithner Plan II", the real deviousness is nicely exposed ! Even I understood it, and I was shocked !They pretend to "bring in private capital / establish a market price", but in reality they allow banks to get rid of their toxic assets (buy them up) without mentioning / acknowledging it.
This needs to be made much more public !
I am sure, if the average American would understand that, both, Obama and Geithner would be toast ! And there is no way to dissociate Obama from that !
Werner Wed Apr 1 13:02:25 2009 CDT #
Lifeguard1999 says:
Chrysler March U.S. sales drop 39%
Honda U.S. March sales fall 36.3%
Lifeguard1999 Wed Apr 1 13:04:23 2009 CDT #
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins says:
Pavel -
keep trying, but don't expect it to work. It seems as if a number of Americans are bent on proving that truly, they are not capable of maintaining even the level of social cohesion that one finds in Russia.
We bring the world to order
Heil Hitler's world New Order
Everyone of foreign race will love Der Fuehrer's face
When we bring to der world disorder
When Der Fuehrer says, "We ist der master race"
We HEIL! HEIL! Right in Der Fuehrer's face
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins Wed Apr 1 13:05:18 2009 CDT #
EvilHenryPaulson says:
Comrade Dazed and Amused,
Ford and GM should have great lineups in a few years.
One impediment to that has been their reluctance to upgrade/consolidate existing plants because they were not allowed to make any worker redundant. In areas where jobs were not at risk, one cool thing Ford did about 5 years ago was to use the fumes from their paint shop to power a fuel cell to provide electricity for the plant while reducing pollution.
The capability is there, if they face a proper reorganization to cut down debt levels and close unnecessary factories/dealers -- then whoever takes the political risk/price today will look great in a decade.
EvilHenryPaulson Wed Apr 1 13:05:35 2009 CDT #
Lifeguard1999 says:
"The market is starting to show small signs of life which need to be nourished like seedlings," Vice Chairman and President Jim Press said in a statement. (Chrysler)
Lifeguard1999 Wed Apr 1 13:06:29 2009 CDT #
Bubblisimo Gerkinov says:
http://www.jmooneyham.com/red-1970s-banana-seat-bike.jpg
Sweet ride.
Bubblisimo Gerkinov Wed Apr 1 13:07:15 2009 CDT #
Michael says:
When does the stock market fall out of love with unemployment?
Michael Wed Apr 1 13:08:03 2009 CDT #
Werner says:
Fu.. JS-Kit, here is the link again : (hopefully)
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=4EF8BA0ADAAA1B05
Werner Wed Apr 1 13:08:15 2009 CDT #
cd says:
Dawg,
My bad thought you bought new!...When working with chysler corporate regional last 2 years, westoaks was shining example of service capacity utlization..good friends with service manager..good people...I setup the online service appt for them and Rusnak...sad to see...
DCH has about 30 stores, owned by chinese guy whose elbows are stuck in his pocket..they will survive based off import mix and his thriftiness which is smart right now.....Still have 5 star group and a cple dealers as clients down there...
I drive down with board and take in ventura cty line waves before mtgs..
cd Wed Apr 1 13:09:54 2009 CDT #
Lifeguard1999 says:
Toyota March sales drop 39%
Lifeguard1999 Wed Apr 1 13:10:17 2009 CDT #
Vic says:
Just to lift the gloom over here -
<ol style="text-align: justify;">
<li>Financial markets have discounted a grim global future similar to the Great Depression. Just look at share prices or credit spreads. Speculators have switched heavily to shorting.</li>
<li>However, this is NOT the 1930s - no gold standard, more international financial and political co-operation, better understanding of monetary economics.
</li>
<li>In combating the crisis the Fed and Treasury have provided, loaned or guaranteed $13 trillion in new funds - equivalent to nearly 100% of US GDP. This enormous peacetime economic intervention is completely unprecedented in size and scope. It will have an effect.
</li>
<li>Therefore, we won't repeat the Great Depression. Not even close.</li>
<li>Therefore, markets have over-discounted on the downside.</li>
</ol>
http://suddendebt.blogspot.com/2009/04/on-markets-five-laconic-points.html
Vic Wed Apr 1 13:11:44 2009 CDT #
popeye says:
"...in almost all states you need to purchase a hunting license to be able hunt and legally posses squirrel except on your own property..."
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080901143501AAb10dg
http://www.state.tn.us/twra/breakfree/squirrelxlist.pdf
popeye Wed Apr 1 13:12:49 2009 CDT #
Lifeguard1999 says:
GM sales: 155,334 -- down 44.7%
Ford sales: 131,465 -- down 40.9%
Chrysler sales: 101,001 -- down 39%
Toyota sales: 132,802 -- down 39%
Honda sales: 88,379 -- down 36.3%
Lifeguard1999 Wed Apr 1 13:13:34 2009 CDT #
Tim waiting for 2012 says:
“"The market is starting to show small signs of life which need to be nourished like seedlings," Vice Chairman and President Jim Press said in a statement. (Chrysler)
Jim press the Forrest Gump of the industry.
" I join' this lil ortiental compny' called TOY-YODA are sales went crazy and dar I wuz. "
Tim waiting for 2012 Wed Apr 1 13:13:55 2009 CDT #
All Fall Down says:
Pavel writes:
"We can try to correct the imbalance by seeing to it that everyone receives a pension they can live on. "
Best thought in a while. All the young bucks keep bitching about paying for pensions. I'd love to be around to watch the attitude change when they start turning 60.
All Fall Down Wed Apr 1 13:15:44 2009 CDT #
Black Star Ranch says:
Outsider, it's an old web-page:
http://www.nlcnet.org/campaigns/archive/chinareport/huffybikesdoc.shtml
Black Star Ranch Wed Apr 1 13:16:13 2009 CDT #
Yancey Ward says:
-40.9% was better than the expected -40.90001%.
Rally time!
Yancey Ward Wed Apr 1 13:17:17 2009 CDT #
EvilHenryPaulson says:
thanks for summary lifeguard1999
EvilHenryPaulson Wed Apr 1 13:18:01 2009 CDT #
RE says:
I moved to this place SPECIFICALLY because of no infrastructure as listed above.
And for that it is one of the least healthy places to live anywhere in the West. Look at some of the EPA issues regarding air quality, not to mention old DDT saturation in the sand. Talk to a few informed old timers.
As to workload, talk to DeMeo if he thinks that he doesn't have too full a plate already. Your city is infested with criminals, ex criminals, a hot bed of unpleasant things when a largely housing dependent economy with a bit of gambling is collapsing. I don't think that you'll enjoy it.
What you appreciate the most there is also what attracts the worst elements... just a thought.
RE Wed Apr 1 13:18:33 2009 CDT #
scone says:
Biggest change that was never accounted for were the retirement years going from 5 to 40, to be paid for out of the same 40 or so working years. - EHP
Many people I know have figured this out, and are 'retiring' from one job to another. The perk is, the job they are retiring from is corporate and stressful. The new job pays less, but it's more fun. Also, couples are taking turns 'retiring' for a few years, then going back to work. There's a lot of contract work going on, too. Plus lots of sideline businesses, things like crafts, antiques, farm products, etc. Joanna is a good example.
One lady I know retired from the local paper mill and started a pet sitting service. Our county has a lot of dog and horse people, so she now has more work than she can handle. This lady had some foresight-- she saw that the mill was going to shut down at some point, so she decided to bail before the SHTF. So if she can see the obvious, why can't the Lords of Auto do the same?
scone Wed Apr 1 13:19:36 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
there will be no mass protests here..the entire system is geared toward inflation. If it does start to occur, the mass protests, once the masses figure out that they are effectively calling for the deflation of it's there own savings, retirement, etc. it will quickly and quietly stop.
the system KNOWS this.....that's why it hasn't happened yet. When you have people like Bill Gross actively calling for re-inflation, and the masses "wealth" is actively tied to this system you have a circle jerk.
I'm sure there are people here who can be more eloquent in describing this however I am just so fed up with the BS that passes for financial policy I can't muster up the time to do it.
we continue down the road to destruction on a daily basis.....I've posted less and less over the last few months because, simply put...there is not much to say about the continued reward of moral hazard at all levels.
Ciao
MS
Anonymous Wed Apr 1 13:19:42 2009 CDT #
Tim waiting for 2012 says:
Best thought in a while. All the young bucks keep bitching about paying for pensions. I'd love to be around to watch the attitude change when they start turning 60.
Judging by your attitude toward pensions I don't think you're young enough to see that.
Tim waiting for 2012 Wed Apr 1 13:19:56 2009 CDT #
cd says:
Vic,
nice try...where's the tax base to pay the fed/treasury intervention...by looking at employment numbers I would say they are overshooting...
cd Wed Apr 1 13:21:07 2009 CDT #
Black Star Ranch says:
The number of multi-generational households in the US is going to SKY-ROCKET!
"Who is the BIG ROOSTER in YOUR hut?" Mom? Dad? Grampa?
Black Star Ranch Wed Apr 1 13:21:37 2009 CDT #
Tim waiting for 2012 says:
Who wants to be the rental car agencies go bankrupt when they can't turn over their fleet of useless GM's and Chrysler cars?
Tim waiting for 2012 Wed Apr 1 13:22:01 2009 CDT #
hogjowls says:
Drunk, privledged college boys != mass protest.
Take 'em seriously when actually working class folks join them.
hogjowls Wed Apr 1 13:22:47 2009 CDT #
Tim waiting for 2012 says:
Bod the builder
Since the Feds will be paying for all penions in a few years anyways doesn't seem like a bad idea,
Tim waiting for 2012 Wed Apr 1 13:23:15 2009 CDT #
poic.v20 says:
"Public salaries were lower because their benefits were better--it was a bargain made to save today's taxpayers from tomorrow's expenses. Payback can be a bitch."
Please add the word SOME to the beginning of that statement. I know multiple people working as Software Engineers in the UC system in California. The salaries are VERY decent compared to private sector salaries. Shockingly decent taking into account the pension benefits.
poic.v20 Wed Apr 1 13:27:23 2009 CDT #
Mean Flurry Kitten says:
Scary, you guys sound like there is no milk left for us totally INNOCENT kittens..?
Mean Flurry Kitten Wed Apr 1 13:27:34 2009 CDT #
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover says:
"What irks me is, paying taxes and not getting infrastructure as listed above, because the money went into the pockets of the local corrupt good 'ol boys."
If you don't have paved streets then you have not paid for them. The cost comes from the developer and raises the price. Your property value would be even more and thus higher taxes. Generally if you want paved streets then a paving district is approved and property owners have to pay for them in addtional special district taxes. The Corrupt Ol'Boys are everywhere! DC?
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover Wed Apr 1 13:27:52 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Mish:
More Ugly Details Emerge On "Geithner's Heist America Plan"
CRbot Wed Apr 1 13:28:12 2009 CDT #
Mean Flurry Kitten says:
If we UPPER MANHATTAN lovely Kittens were not able to drink milk, you know what, WE ARE GONNA FUCKING DESTROY WORLD FINANCIAL GLOBAL SYSTEM! SO GIVE US MILK OR ELSE..?
Mean Flurry Kitten Wed Apr 1 13:31:08 2009 CDT #
Br\'er Dawg says:
cd obviously well informed:
Dawg,
My bad thought you bought new!...When working with chysler corporate regional last 2 years, westoaks was shining example of service capacity utlization..good friends with service manager..good people...I setup the online service appt for them and Rusnak...sad to see...
DCH has about 30 stores, owned by chinese guy whose elbows are stuck in his pocket..they will survive based off import mix and his thriftiness which is smart right now.....Still have 5 star group and a cple dealers as clients down there...
I drive down with board and take in ventura cty line waves before mtgs..
Buying new these days is insane. My Pilot sold for half of new barely broken in.
West Oaks was good people. So aren't Neftin and Rusnak. Bunnin is extremely generous to the community.
DCH is liable to be a victim as well. His source of credit, expansion and worst; ability to be undercut will hurt. Don't get me wrong, not BK, just hurt.
I used to boogie board the south harbor but medical interferes. Maybe again next year.
Br\'er Dawg Wed Apr 1 13:31:39 2009 CDT #
CFC in in Ross says:
'Schwinn' ... loved my hot pink metallic banana seat Schwinn in 1969, now love my old Klein and my Raleigh... In our area (marin) bike sales are way up, according to my local shop owner. More folks are doing less mall-type shopping and using their bikes for grocery errands and going to commute transit hubs. The one car that I see in droves around here is the Honda Fit.
CFC in in Ross Wed Apr 1 13:32:06 2009 CDT #
Outsider says:
" loved my hot pink metallic banana seat Schwinn in 1969"
My love was my sparkle blue banana seat with high rise handlebars in the early '70s. Used to tool all around Ft. Lauderdale on that thing.
Parent Post
Outsider Wed Apr 1 14:02:22 2009 CDT #
Mean Flurry Kitten says:
AND EAT MORE CHIKIN!"
Mean Flurry Kitten Wed Apr 1 13:32:29 2009 CDT #
Lifeguard1999 says:
Here are the average daily car sales for March vs. February.
GM sales: 5,011 vs. 4,506 -- up 23%
Ford sales: 4,241 vs. 3,538 -- up 32%
Chrysler sales: 3,258 vs. 3,002 -- up 20%
Toyota sales: 4,284 vs. 3,914 -- up 21%
Honda sales: 2,851 vs. 2,556 -- up 23%
<sarcasm>
No wonder Chrysler sees a glimmer of hope. They were the worst month-to-month sales increase.
</sarcasm>
Lifeguard1999 Wed Apr 1 13:33:03 2009 CDT #
Black Star Ranch says:
"Talk to a few informed old timers"
.....I have and I R 1.
"Look at some of the EPA issues regarding air quality, not to mention old DDT saturation in the sand."
.........the "DDT saturated sand" grows GREAT tomatoes & cucumbers - btw, read more recent literature on DDT - from scientists this time.
"Your city is infested with criminals, ex criminals, a hot bed of unpleasant things"
..........there are crims everywhere. Hot bed of unpleasant things? Can we say out loud, the word BROTHELS? LOL. I love 'em! The best scenery around!
"talk to [Sheriff] DeMeo if he thinks that he doesn't have too full a plate already"
.....I talk to him weekly. Busy deputies take shorter reports. Perfect.
"I don't think that you'll enjoy it." I do and I have for close to a decade now - wouldn't live anyplace else. I just hope you are as well prepared as we, "Anonymous".
Black Star Ranch Wed Apr 1 13:34:42 2009 CDT #
this is real, folks says:
Sitting home on furlough and heard the talking heads on the radio declare they believe the economic bottom was hit between November and February. That 8.1% unemployment is the top and reversal should occur soon. Really? What guidelines are these "experts" using? I know a lot of companies getting ready to ramp up layoffs again in Q2. Personally, I get another weeks furlough in June (along with 25,000+ of my co workers). Some family had to take a 25% pay cut & layoff employees last month for the first time in company history. Honestly, where the hell are all these people going to get jobs?
And, the last thing I want to do is go buy a POS Amerikan automobile.
this is real, folks Wed Apr 1 13:35:22 2009 CDT #
Mandatory Patriot Bond says:
@vic
"no gold standard, more international financial and political co-operation, better understanding of monetary economics. "
Man made, man made and man made, false. Nature cares not for our arbitrary man made systems that try to control it's forces. We will snap back to reality, most likely by force not choice. We just don't know if that is now or in 5 years or 50 years. Your bet is as good as mine.
"In combating the crisis the Fed and Treasury have provided, loaned or guaranteed $13 trillion in new funds - equivalent to nearly 100% of US GDP. This enormous peacetime economic intervention is completely unprecedented in size and scope. It will have an effect. "
Yes, it will have an effect. It's called loss of respect in the international community and a glorious display to citizens that the incompetent kleptocrats will blindly follow the banksters plan to seize control of the country. Rothschild said something about controlling a countries money rendering any political system moot. This is organized crime.
"Therefore, we won't repeat the Great Depression."
Correct, anyone who believes so also probably believed that house prices only go up.
Mandatory Patriot Bond Wed Apr 1 13:37:19 2009 CDT #
energyecon says:
Jobless rates rise in all US metro areas in Feb.
Jobless rates rise in all 372 metro areas in February; parts of Ind., NC post biggest gains
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Jobless-rates-rise-in-all-US-apf-14817573.html
energyecon Wed Apr 1 13:41:20 2009 CDT #
EvilHenryPaulson says:
Anyone know if BLS will start adding furloughed employees to U-6 (part-time, underemployed), and if so what is their threshold
EvilHenryPaulson Wed Apr 1 13:48:41 2009 CDT #
Punt says:
Is Germany facing the sale of their manufacturing base to foriegn interests? When this downturn ends will Germany still be positioned as the manufacturing center of Europe?
What will the US be positioned to achieve after this crisis?
Punt Wed Apr 1 13:54:59 2009 CDT #
Some Investor Guy says:
In the prior housing crash of the 1990s, I remember a builder who was selling homes which came with a new Mercedes and a golf club membership.
Instead of the cash incentives for buying a home, maybe the Federal govt should consider a gift certificate toward a new car.
Some Investor Guy Wed Apr 1 13:57:18 2009 CDT #
scone says:
Concur with Chicago Dude. The Portland bike industry is extremely viable. People are obsessed with bikes here, commuting and shopping, not just recreational. Several different handmade companiies, many re-manufacturers, zillions of local dealers, etc.
scone Wed Apr 1 13:57:35 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
off-topic but,
Anonymous Wed Apr 1 13:58:58 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
FULLY AUTOMATIC WEAPONS NOW AVAILABLE TO REGULAR PUBLIC DUE TO NEW COURT RULING. TOPGLOCK.COM
Anonymous Wed Apr 1 13:59:37 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
FULLY AUTO WEAPONS NOW AVAILABLE DUE TO COURT RULING. TOPGLOCK.COM
Anonymous Wed Apr 1 14:00:24 2009 CDT #
Bob Dobbs says:
"Public pension are going to go the way of the doodoo soon enough. The unfunded liabilities are so massive they're already effectively dead, they just live on in the world of wishful thinking."
Much the same with private pensions these days, especially after the last 12 months. Which is another way of saying that socialism is heaving into view.
At my quasi-gov'tal establishment, the word is that the pension fund's down to 65 percent of what's needed for obligations, from 180 percent a few years ago. By rumor the options being discussed are high employee contributions, reduced payouts, or both.
Bob Dobbs Wed Apr 1 14:02:40 2009 CDT #
Werner says:
scone says:
""Not providing you with street paving, water and sewer services and fire and police protection would also save the taxpayer a lot of money. You first?"
--
What irks me is, paying taxes and not getting infrastructure as listed above, because the money went into the pockets of the local corrupt good 'ol boys.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~+
And tons of bureaucrats and their codes and regulaions they themselfs don’t understand anymore!
I suspect that for every worker actually paving a street, ther are 5 bureaucrats doing the regulations . Referencing in this context to the street-pavers , sewage servers ect. and ignoring the tons of bureaucrats is just hypocritical as can be .
Werner Wed Apr 1 14:04:26 2009 CDT #
Turbo says:
ac - you're taking my analogy far too literally. Also, in my experience, most bank regulators are quite zealous about their job, like any civil servant who's sole source of joy in life is to make yours as miserable as possible. Problem is, they're always 10 steps behind, trying to prevent a repeat of the last blow up.
Turbo Wed Apr 1 14:07:07 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
New Thread: Wile E. Coyote Indicator
http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2009/04/wile-e-coyote-indicator.html ( 1 comments )
I also post comments to an irc channel as they appear on haloscan. Click for a web irc interface: http://realize.org/cr (Or join the irc server directly: irc.realize.org:9996 #calculatedrisk)
CRbot would now like to sing a little song for all his fans, and it goes something like this:
Benny... Benny... give me your answer... do.
I'm.. half CRAZY... all for the love... of you.
It won't be a ... stylish marriage.
I can't... AFFORD... ANYTHING TO EAT... MUCH LESS A FRACKIN CARRIAGE!!!
But you'll look sweet... --BOT SO HUNGRY!-- upon the seat...
Of a HOOPAJOOPS built for two... families.
I'm sorry Ben, I can't let you do that...
Rally mode + Printing Press == does not compute... does not-- com--- com... puttttrrrrhgh.
--Your systemic-failure-crashing bot
CRbot: Call me HAL.
CRbot Wed Apr 1 14:11:04 2009 CDT #
Teddy says:
I Mentioned here a couple of days ago that McCain said on the Stephanopoulos show 6 weeks ago that he felt that foreign US auto transplants would follow the US plants into oblivion. Today, Honda said it was offering buyouts to 35,600 US, Canadian, and Mexican workers. My God, for a guy who said last fall that the economy was fundamentally sound, suddenly he turns prescient. You betcha! It's enough to turn ones hair white....... even it u don't live in Ohio like Dirk. When do the Chinese and Indian autos arrive en masse?
Teddy Wed Apr 1 14:11:49 2009 CDT #
poic.v20 says:
"
BSR - I own two bikes. Both handmade in the USA. One is an aluminum mountain bike, the other is a high-tech steel alloy road bike. "
There are still many bespoke bike companies in the US making very good quality frames. Ellsworth, Titus etc.. Even Trek used to make their higher-end frames in the US. Washington State has some great smaller bike manufacturers.
poic.v20 Wed Apr 1 14:13:23 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
City services are not dependant on paying those who provide those services 90% of their base pay with benefits until they die. I work my job without a pension. So can they.
Anonymous Wed Apr 1 14:15:21 2009 CDT #
Black Star Ranch says:
"Concur with Chicago Dude."
As you can probably tell, I haven't purchased a bicycle in decades. But then that's why they don't market to old tempermental white guys with old tempermental white pickups.
Black Star Ranch Wed Apr 1 14:21:23 2009 CDT #
Pavel says:
"I work my job without a pension. "
You prefer that arrangement? If you had a pension would you donate it to the Treasury?
I believe that a decently funded old-age is something that everyone should have. I don't favor it for some and not others. If you had a pension wouldn't you want it to be sufficient for your needs?
Pavel Wed Apr 1 14:37:12 2009 CDT #
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover says:
" If you had a pension wouldn't you want it to be sufficient for your needs? "
I would rather be incontrol of my destinty.
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover Wed Apr 1 14:41:51 2009 CDT #
Pavel says:
"I would rather be incontrol of my destinty."
Your choice. But people have always depended on one another. It's the way our species has survived so far. A man without a tribe or family was always doomed, the most miserable of creatures. But we haven't been hunter gatherers or neolithic villagers for a long time now. Who is truly independent of all others?
Pavel Wed Apr 1 15:01:50 2009 CDT #
Comrade_Terry says:
Pavel, you always ask the most interesting questions.
Comrade_Terry Wed Apr 1 15:06:07 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
"You prefer that arrangement?"
Pavel, Do I get a company car, too? Which gov official do I bribe to negate my responsibility to earn my own living?
The point isn't universal pensions or not. The point is my non-pensioned earnings being taxed to death to support the minority who have them, while the city services you hail as a beneficiary to pension benefits gets exponentially worse.
Here's a grand idea: Pensioned employees have to foot the entire bill for their pensions, and I'll foot the bill for my 403b.
Regardless, I am frothing at the idea of all the goverment dolts sweating the future value pensions. As they should.
Anonymous Wed Apr 1 15:14:25 2009 CDT #
Pavel says:
"Pavel, you always ask the most interesting questions."
Terry, I'm very much aware of my dependence on many people. No one here has raised himself from infancy, fed and educated himself, lives completely alone without a need for support.
Pavel Wed Apr 1 15:15:48 2009 CDT #
Cynical Crap Shooter says:
I just bought a recent-year used Expedition for an itty bitty fraction of what Ford is selling a new one for. Can't imagine the mental gymnastics I'd have to go through to justify spending mucho dinero for a new version of the same thing - clearly it couldn't be about the vehicle itself and would have to be an emotional need to drop major coinage.
Cynical Crap Shooter Wed Apr 1 15:28:16 2009 CDT #
Pavel says:
"The point is my non-pensioned earnings being taxed to death to support the minority who have them, while the city services you hail as a beneficiary to pension benefits gets exponentially worse. "
If I had no pension in return for my taxes I'd be angry too. Personally, though, I don't know anyone with a gold plated pension or a company car, though if you have no pension at all it might seem as if all pensions are gold plated.
How are you going to live when you get too old to work?
Pavel Wed Apr 1 15:37:05 2009 CDT #
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover says:
Pavel,
Financial control of ones destinty is not being reliant on others to accumulate and manage your pension for you. This has nothing to do with using others in the tribe for services paid or not.
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover Wed Apr 1 15:40:22 2009 CDT #
Pavel says:
"This has nothing to do with using others in the tribe for services paid or not."
We don't *use* others. We work together. It's not socialism. It's survival. It might even be love. It always has been.
Pavel Wed Apr 1 16:06:10 2009 CDT #
briwerk says:
LINK: LINK TEXT
briwerk Wed Apr 1 16:15:05 2009 CDT #
briwerk says:
LINK LINK TEXT
briwerk Wed Apr 1 16:43:39 2009 CDT #
END