Comments for "Mortgage Fraud in 2008"

bobnbot (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 8:49am.

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Arbitrage Macht Frei wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 8:51am.

The Celebrated Jumping Fraud of San Diego County?

dfshhs wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 8:52am.

I think McConville should incorporate and IPO. He made a profit!

Ministry of Truth wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 8:54am.

Wonder how they found the straw buyers, a seminar on real estate investing perhaps?

Tim waiting for 2012 wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 8:54am.

Fraud Can be used to describe so many things, so many people. Flippers will get caught holding the burning bag of doodoo.
Anyways adding to my losing (mostly) short positions. XLF, time to go down

Elmer Fudd wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 8:55am.

didn't the name get them suspicious (McConville)?

Tim waiting for 2012 wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 8:55am.

Can't short XLF... Damn

Cinco-X (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 8:56am.

"Wonder how they found the straw buyers, a seminar on real estate investing perhaps? "

They probably got them from credit ratings agencies using a particular profile. Ya' know, folks with good credit, high incomes, and apparently more money than sense;-)

Effective Demand (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 8:57am.

Like most, I can't wait for the day where lenders actually care about to whom they lend money.

http://effectivedemand.blogspot.com

Yearning to Learn (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 8:57am.

Ken/CR:

test.

not sure if this is everybody, but when I post a comment there is no "send" or "post" button, only a "save" button. it looks like hitting "save" sends the post to CR, but it is confusing.

may want to rename the button "send" or "post"

thanks in advance.

Tim waiting for 2012 wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 8:59am.

24 indicted in mortgage fraud scheme allegedly led by gang member

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/apr/07/bn07loans-street-gang/

CR, is this the same story???

No XLF... Zombie BAC it is then. Will the market do a Monster Mash this week?

Cinco-X (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 8:59am.

"may want to rename the button "send" or "post""

Once you "save" a post, you can go back in and edit it, and then "save" it again with the edits. Save may actually be more appropriate.

some investor guy (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 8:59am.

I'm just speculating here. Maybe some of those straw buyers were in financial trouble due to a job loss, but had not yet missed any payments. Or, maybe they intended to walk away on their own homes and didn't care about an even worse blast to their credit scores.

KevinM wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:00am.

"McConville bought distressed condos from developers in bulk, and then sold them to straw buyers (individuals with solid credit records who agreed to sign for the loans for a fee). "

Then what? Are those same signers still on the hook for the defaults? McConville walks away unscathed?

1 currency now -yogi (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:00am.

So where did the 12.5 million go, and where are the claws?

MEL wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:01am.

Are the straw buyers criminally liable? Fools like them deserve to be behind bars. All fraudsters need pawns.

Cinco-X (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:02am.

"I'm just speculating here. Maybe some of those straw buyers were in financial trouble due to a job loss, but had not yet missed any payments. Or, maybe they intended to walk away on their own homes and didn't care about an even worse blast to their credit scores."

Maybe they viewed it as a sort of REIT with a rental income? Remember, "more money than sense".....

Yal (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:03am.

This post makes me miss Tanta even more....

hc wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:04am.

Response to an earlier topic by Yearning to Learn (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 6:23am:

I honestly think that it does take 2 to tango. In this case it took almost the entire world to two-step.

I agree with YTL that the blame is not American only. However, I disagree that the blame should be equally shared by American and rest of the world.

I would go so far as to actually accuse the global savings glut as the culprit for some kind of crisis.

Because of the insistent policy to export their way into prosperity and offloading their country's economic development into someone else's problem; these countries have created an unstable system no matter what America does.

The excess recycled dollars over 20 or 30 years would've caused massive problems no matter what we do with real estate or not.

The global savings glut is real. It's also extremely destabilizing. I believe that once you've exceeded a system's ability to absorb additional savings and capital reasonably, it is inevitable that it becomes fluff. 2001 it was dot com; today it's RE and CRE. Underlying current is too much dollars chasing after too few opportunities.

People in Wall Street, FNM, FRE are paid to chase these opportunities; but what happens when there's still MORE money coming, even after all the safe and reasonable investment choices have been bought? Would they say "STOP! No More Investments" ??? That illustrates the crux of the dilemma!

If USA did not even exist; or another country had the reserve currency status, and the same mindless, relentless recycling into that currency still exist -- another crisis will start somewhere, in something.

Cinco-X (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:04am.

"Fools like them deserve to be behind bars."

There's no crime for being a fool, and I suspect that many here have benefited from that fact on at least one or more occasions, including me. A criminal act usually requires intent, and there's no way to discern that from the article.

lama wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:04am.

"So where did the 12.5 million go, and where are the claws?"

Ask Angelo Mozilo. He's sitting on some tanning bed in a mansion right now laughing at all of us.

Blackhalo (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:05am.

"The individuals had pristine credit."

Are the credit applicants on the hook for fraud for allowing McConville to use their scores or are they on the hook for the loans? Or both?

Did they commit a crime? What about the FICO raters? Sure would be nice to see them discredited .

awgee wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:06am.

Obama ought to hire this guy to help out Geithner and Summers. It sounds like they all went to the same school of finance.

sdfdf wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:08am.

Credit Suisse To US Clients: Get Your Money Out Now Or We'll Call IRS

Hubbert wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:08am.

"We just need to get the banks to start lending again."

Mr.Sparkle (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:08am.

Rob Dawg had a funny little post about a guy on Craigslist trying to do basically this exact same thing - renting someone's credit to get a lower re-fi rate that he didn't qualify for because of an income drop.

Wonder if they are related. If I remember correctly, it was from the same area...

------------------------------------
"I am disrespctful to dirt!"

Cinco-X (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:08am.

"People in Wall Street, FNM, FRE are paid to chase these opportunities; but what happens when there's still MORE money coming, even after all the safe and reasonable investment choices have been bought? Would they say "STOP! No More Investments" ??? That illustrates the crux of the dilemma!"

The problem is that these clowns passed off garbage as AAA investments. If the real risk would've been known, it's possible that this money would've stayed in China or elsewhere, and gone into their economy instead of extracting the wealth from ours.

hc wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:10am.

In a proper economic system, if you export too much, the importer's economic becomes poorer; which is reflected in a decreasing currency for the importer -- which yields in a lessening of the exporters profits.

At the margin (where everything matters), this could contribute to signals of 5% or 10% less profit or more pain, which should curb the excess exports. Similarly, the "poorer" importer's labor would be 5 to 10% less expensive, which prompts investment and jobs at the margin.

So it all balances out.

You can't then peg the system; such that you cause perpetual impoverishing of the importing economy, and then refuse to let the currencies correct and thereby the poorer nation to EARN THEIR WAY out of the hole. You can't on one hand give someone debt; and then on the other hand reduce his ability to earn back his debt!

That's exactly what the crazy currency pegs and dollar cycling system is doing.

Americans, if you think why jobs are getting scarcer -- THIS IS WHY!!!! If the currencies have been allowed to float freely, the exodus of jobs would've slowly balanced over the last 30 years, instead of having all exodus and no reciprocal flowing back.

Currencies must be allowed to float freely!!!

Currencies is bigger than any one policies. It's so powerful, that destabilizing it by 2-3% annually builds tremendous stress that now is all exploding at the same time.

Black Star Ranch (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:10am.

........remember the "moral hazard" argument? I think we're just now starting to see the beginning of it being played out. I'll add that to the previous list:

I can understand that for "the worst to be behind us", unemployment can still be negative, as it is a lagging indicator. That doesn't account though for the following problems still to be played out:

  • The CRE crash
  • Corresponding regional bank failures
  • Underfunded Pension Plan Defaults
  • Multiple city & county bankrupties due to decreased revenues from property taxes
  • States unemployment insurance fund insolvencies
  • Major US$ currency devaluations
  • Skyrocketing Medicare, Medicaid, & private medical services
  • Increased upcoming military costs
  • Exhausted Social Security "Slush Fund"
  • Upcoming unknown "Moral Hazard" Losses

Unfortunately, I'd say the worst is still ahead of us. There's much that isn't even listed above - how about our debt and its consequences?.........

- - - - -

Black Star Ranch

Lobbyi$t Ben Dover wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:12am.

They are not "FOOLS" the proper PC term is Victim! This is not their fault Bush made them do it!

Dagny wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:12am.

I can't figure out how he found 20 people with good credit to participate. With a crook like this, why would you trust him to make the mortgage payments? How long would you have an identity of any value to sell? I would really like to know their definition of a solid credit record.

hc wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:17am.

Cinco:

The problem is that these clowns passed off garbage as AAA investments. If the real risk would've been known, it's possible that this money would've stayed in China or elsewhere, and gone into their economy instead of extracting the wealth from ours.

Their valuation systems flawed, no doubt. Their financial modeling is limited as we all see now, but to say it's completely evil intent from the get go is wrong too. *AT THE BEGINNING*, the idea of spreading risk across tranches does yield some marginal improvement in the securities' stability rings true. At some volume level, it would still make sense as the risk/reward is panned out.

The only fatal flaw is overleveraging that slight improvment and cranking up the volume. I submit that if you crank up enough volume on ANYTHING, you'll make it risky no matter how safe it was to start with. Lets practice this with Gold if you don't think we can get a bubble in Gold.

If we had stayed with low capital availability (instead of this excess craziness), the bundling method may actually have done some good to improve market efficiency. Overload it, and it becomes a systemic problem.

That's my anger: the excess savings glut causing everything to volume beyond what's sustainable. That's the root of all these.

CDS, MBS, CDO, UST, Debt, etc are all just symptoms!!!

Cinco-X (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:19am.

" * The CRE crash
1Corresponding regional bank failures
2 Underfunded Pension Plan Defaults
3 Multiple city & county bankrupties due to decreased revenues from property taxes
4 States unemployment insurance fund insolvencies
5 Major US$ currency devaluations
6Skyrocketing Medicare, Medicaid, & private medical services
7Increased upcoming military costs
8 Exhausted Social Security "Slush Fund"
9 Upcoming unknown "Moral Hazard" Losses
"

1-CR has posted many charts showing that CRE is a lagging indicator, so this would be expected, even during a recovery.
2-Pension funds caught in a "squeeze" due to withdrawals while the market was down AND current contributions are down due to increased unemployment, another lagging indicator of recovery.
3- Due to increased unemployment, again a lagging indicator.
4-Due to increased unemployment, again a lagging indicator.
5-Which we need to be more competitive, but is being thwarted by the Chinese.
6-A problem, but not that different than over the last 20 years.
7-A great opportunity for "stimulus"
8-We knew that was coming, but we booted the guys that tried to "fix" it. I'll be joining the AARP this year anyway....
9-There's no longer any such thing as "moral hazard" /snark

Paulo wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:19am.

The sentiment about banks going back to business as usual

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Rescue-economy-Try-SEALs/story.aspx?guid={E3A45585-E746-4A07-B22B-1166E0C1BFB7}
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/163c85c4-2789-11de-9b77-00144feabdc0.html

It is starting to pile up, and popular discontent will force more regulation, is that a remedy, or are politicians going to just take the relay and sprint away with it.

Blackhalo (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:21am.

"Unfortunately, I'd say the worst is still ahead of us."

For me, the question is, how long can the bankers and their minions, in the administration, keep the facade from falling down. How much time and money will be wasted and how much additional suffering must we endure in their mad quest to sell the public on the insolvent being solvent.

Cinco-X (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:23am.

"Their valuation systems flawed, no doubt. Their financial modeling is limited as we all see now, but to say it's completely evil intent from the get go is wrong too. *AT THE BEGINNING*, the idea of spreading risk across tranches does yield some marginal improvement in the securities' stability rings true"

The reality is that while your argument rings true for the well intentioned, the ratings agencies threw all propriety out the window at the behest of the "Banksters" as many are wont to call them, and at that point, it became "our" fault. If you're a diabetic, and you simply cannot pass up a piece of candy, it's your fault, not the fault of the candy, and not the fault of the candy maker. Period.

Rob Dawg (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:24am.

Mr. Sparkle. Here's my blog post:
I'm looking to rent someone's credit and make it worth your while. I will pay $7,000 if you can buy my house and I will continue making all the payments after the purchase. I will remain the owner and a contract will be in place, and eventually transfer the house back to my name. I make enough to where I cannot get help but received a pay cut that I'm in a bit of trouble so I'm left with looking to make a short sale.

McConville was just a REIT without incorporation.

hc wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:25am.

Some saving is good, but too much savings is just as bad as spending too much. They're both sides of the same coin!

Too much savings, it also means you're consuming way below what you should be; which distorts the consumer demand information available in the system. It makes the system think there's much less demand then there really is.

Sinomania! wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:26am.

The red flag all along should've been the fact that these condo conversions were in places like Escondido and San Marcos! The idea that people would pay high rents to live in the crappiest parts of San Diego was always the biggest fiction.

snacky wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:27am.

There are many flaws in the way MBS's work. On one side is, yes, how they're valued and rated. But the fulcrum is on the other side - capital requirements. The way the regs work, you can expand better & get more leveraged by buying $1m of MBS's vs originating $1m in mortgages the old fashioned way.

sdtfs (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:27am.

24 indicted in mortgage fraud scheme allegedly led by gang member

http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/apr/07/bn07loans-street-gang/

CR, is this the same story???

No this is a different story.
In my opinion these came about because of the silly dependence on the appreciation of San Diego real estate and foolish credulous get rich quick investors. Now I have a much better plan for making money, but it's not a get rich quick scheme,...it will take a whole year. Please send me your personal information and I will see if it fits my criteria for my "Gold Circle of Investors". Iwill not accept just anybody!!! Hint: It involves real estate in Spain! Imagine yourself as a Spanish landowner in the land of Don Quixote! Hurry, I only have five openings left.

Rob Dawg (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:28am.

Also McConville timed the multiple applications perfectly so the lender wouldn't see the other loans apps when they performed a credit check - that is pretty amazing. - CR

What's amazing? That somebody sees Casey Serin and learns that there are no consequences? Repeat after me; moral hazard.

snacky wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:29am.

I should elaborate on that slightly. The capital requirements treat highly rated MBS's as if they're MUCH safer than carefully underwritten non-securitized mortgages. Actually, they may be less safe because the securitization fad promotes worse underwriting practices... On one side banks load up on asset risk (riskier lending) and on the other side they hold less capital, so they have less room for error. This is true in Europe too.

Borocco Mama wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:30am.

We should expect nothing less in a system that preaches Greed is Good.

It's not illegal until you get caught.

Mr.Sparkle (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:31am.

@Dawg - good line.

He clearly went wrong with the promise of issuing of cash dividends. He should have gone with stock dividends just like with real-life REITs lately.

------------------------------------
"I am disrespctful to dirt!"

Zantage (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:34am.

One of the fundamental architectural characteristics of human beings is to find patterns. Without that ability, we'd perceive only the lowest level differences. But since we find patterns so readily, we also need to be suspicious of that trait. Otherwise, it is too easy to follow it into excess. I find these discussions valuable, but it is difficult sometimes to "condense fact from the vapor of nuance" (to quote Neal Stephenson) especially from the more radical comments.

I don't know what will happen next, but I think it will be worse than many think but not apocalyptic. Our system has some feedback elements that work, and some that have been dismantled or are otherwise ineffective. But to protest against self-serving actions, within legal constraints, is to deny a fundamental driver of what works in our system.

sdtfs (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:38am.

What's amazing?

I'm surprised that CR finds this amazing. I've done it. It's not that hard. It's not like they deviate form the bureaucratic timetable.

Borocco Mama wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:39am.

China to USA......"you should prepare yourself for bankruptcy."

hc wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:39am.

Cinco-X:
The reality is that while your argument rings true for the well intentioned, the ratings agencies threw all propriety out the window at the behest of the "Banksters" as many are wont to call them, and at that point, it became "our" fault. If you're a diabetic, and you simply cannot pass up a piece of candy, it's your fault, not the fault of the candy, and not the fault of the candy maker. Period.

I'm not trying to redeem the Wall Street slime for their wrongdoing. It's wrong to rate as they did no matter the scenario.

But I don't believe that just greed can get us where we are. This is too big. This is structual imbalance.

Throughout this decade, there has been undeniably pressure to manufacture tranches to sell, because there's the unending demand for them.

If available capital was limited, after selling a enough securities, the dollars available should get less, and thus it should be less profitable to sell them as the cost of capital should climb. There's should be less need to pressure rating agencies then.

Also, if capital had dried up sooner, when the bubble was much smaller, then the securities would still be revealed to be bad; but the pop would've not been systemic.

Why did the system run, until the bubble is roughly the scale of trades of China, Japan and the Petro-Nations? Why did it take FOURTEEN interest rate raises by the feds, over TWO YEARA, before the market rate responded?

Volume definitely exacerbated the problem.

Tim waiting for 2012 wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:39am.

Borocco

A quick and orderly bankruptcy...

That's Ballgame, Goat Herders wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:40am.

Question: We currently have fixed mortgate rate of 6.7 percent, set in 2005.

What should we be shooting for, in terms of a new fixed rate for refinancing?

Think we could get 5.2, or should we be content with just getting to 5.7 (which would lop about $350 off our monthly payment)

We have not missed any payments at this point and have fair credit.

Bob Dobbs (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:49am.

"I don't know what will happen next, but I think it will be worse than many think but not apocalyptic. Our system has some feedback elements that work, and some that have been dismantled or are otherwise ineffective. But to protest against self-serving actions, within legal constraints, is to deny a fundamental driver of what works in our system."

It's not working now, because it has no restraints. Or rather, the self-interest of a few trumps the self-interest of the many. That's what fascism is, and that's what regulation and the separation of power was supposed to stop. None of this is working.

http://www.talesfromthecoast.blogspot.com

Borocco Mama wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:48am.

National Propaganda Radio was really pushing Green and Recovery today. Ridiculously transparent of them. Battery powered ride-on lawnmowers from Toro. That's the ticket. They cost hundreds more, still, and what happens to all those batteries when they get tossed? That's right, they end up in your drinking water, or your food.......and, they required more coal-fired power plants to keep them juiced, thus adding filth from antiquated technology to the air. It should be called Gray....not Green, but this is 1984, and Green it will be, and we'll like it, or else.

Tim waiting for 2012 wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:51am.

Move Over, MoveOn: Tea Parties Spark Conservative Insurgency Online

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/04/13/pub-moveon/

Too Bad no Republicans are involved... Next Election will be a four way race Green, Libertarian, Dem, Rep.
Let the Race to the bottom in 2012 begin!

barkingtribe wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:51am.

McConville..heh,heh, he said, McConville, (apologies to Beavis and Butthead)

Tim waiting for 2012 wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:54am.

Borocco Nickel batteries not that great but if we are talking about Lithium batteries most large batteries are recycled.
Just ask the people around Richmond, CA and the fisheries by the bay how bad the Gasoline Refineries are for the water. You like flame retardant with your crab?

Dead_Monkey_Bounce wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:58am.

Straw buyers and the real borrowers are both guilty of mortgage fraud.

I think you'll find that it's a very common practice in immigrant communities though (including legal immigrants). There's a culture of gaming the system that has grown up because so many people wanted to come to this country and the regulations were pretty onerous. I know people who came in on "sham" marriages, had other people "purchase" cars etc for them...

It's illegal, it's fraud, but it's the way that things are done in a lot of neighborhoods in this country.

Anonymouss wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:58am.

The unit that all but destroyed AIG has failed to sign up for the overhaul of the global derivatives market which was given added impetus by the troubles at the US insurance group.

AIG confirmed that its financial products unit, whose soured bets on credit default swaps forced the company into government hands last year, did not adopt the "Big Bang" protocol that has been signed by more than 2,000 market participants.

-The Financial Times

Borocco Mama wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:59am.

Tim, I'm not defending the current state, but I'm also not going to defend what's being proposed because it's woefully inadequate and just another scam. Prove to me that most large batteries are recycled, and done so isustainably with minimal ecological impact. I want to believe, but experience has taught me to beware.

Zantage (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:00am.

Bob Dobbs: You're right that it isn't working as well as it should. But isn't the current situation better described by a curve than a toggle? Rather than working or not working, we're seeing problems. And they're coming out. And we have people like you to say "enough is enough." I know people in finance whose biggest surprise is how quickly the pendulum swung from "anything goes" to "you don't deserve a 'mere' $400K bonus" [I added the quotes around 'mere.'] The system is working as well as it ever has, but that isn't saying it is working well. Just that it works, and the times when it feels like it is headed off the cliff are often the times when in hindsight it has turned around. The problem I see is that too many are too ready to think it has turned. I think it will need to get worse before it gets better. I just don't know how much.

warlock (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:00am.

snacky

I believe you were right first time. MBS/ABS etc., actually anything that let's banks sell loans outside of the regulated banking system, creates increasing amounts of debt leverage within the fractional reserve banking system itself. It's something that can only be measured by looking across all the banks, individually they each look as if they're doing the right thing - it's the combination of what they're doing that's deadly.

adornosghost (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:01am.

Why do we have a economic system that rewards sociopathic behavior?

Woody wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:02am.

There is NOTHING--I repeat: NOTHING--about the way the world conducts itself today that is in any way 'sustainable.'

NOTHING! Get it?

There are almost 7 BILLION people on the planet.

Absent a cataclysm, that number will double in 20 years.

If it hadn't been for the carnage of the 20th century--the bloodiest in history--the likelihood is that there'd NOW be more than 20 BILLION now, and growing.

Nature will likely take things into her own hands, and it's not gonna be pretty...

snacky wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:03am.

Warlock, the problem is in the regulated banking system too. The capital requirements encourage them to use securitization and ditch the old, tried-and-true lending methods. Banks that don't like that can watch their market share erode. Which is exactly what happened in the last 10 years.

albrt (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:03am.

That's ballgame -

Don't know your credit situation, but I called a loan officer the other day and was offered 4.5%. This is for a 10 or 15 year mortgage. Theoretically 80% LTV or better, but the loan officer didn't sound like he thought it would be hard to find a variety of appraisals to choose from.

Tim waiting for 2012 wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:04am.

Borocco

I knew you weren't defending the Status quo but we need to look foward to something. I agree a lot of green washing going around. Found this.

"The automotive industry should be given credit in organizing ways to dispose of old car batteries. In the USA, 98 percent of all lead acid batteries are recycled. Compared to aluminum cans (65 percent), newspaper (59 percent) and glass bottles (37 percent), lead acid batteries are reclaimed very efficiently, due in part to legislation."

Not saying there is 100% compliance. Also I heard that Up until last year recycling batteries was more cost effective.

Borocco Mama wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:10am.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/3549153/Recycling-shipped-to-...

The Institute of Mechanical Engineers (IMechE) said the Government's policy of recycling as much as possible is failing to help the environment because materials are being dumped in landfill or shipped to developing countries.

It's an interesting article, because it mentions what's currently happening versus what could be. We all know know what could be is a pipe dream. In a system of Greed is Good, recycling will be left to the least common denominator, and will not be the ideal.

Rob Dawg (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:11am.

dornosghost (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:01am.
Q: Why do we have a economic system that rewards sociopathic behavior?

Evolutionary Survival Bias.

gutted fish wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:13am.

distribution of wealth one take

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_2fuk3iGxQxM/Sd2l6usnraI/AAAAAAAACas/ysqlfyJX1e...
from sudden debt

http://suddendebt.blogspot.com/

aClem (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:14am.

What I don't understand is how ACORN pulled all this off. The story seems to have missed that essential fact. I hope some loyal ditto heads can explain it all to me, how this is the fault of giving loans to welfare mothers and illegal aliens. I'm sure there's an answer but I'm too dumb to see it. Oh, and if we can work in the 2nd amendment and baby killing doctors, we'd have the trifecta. (it goes without saying this is all Obama's fault, but work it in if you can)

Werner wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:15am.

A nice example of how bussines is conducted in America and why one need to avoid Americans like the plague !

Tom in AZ (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:16am.

Tim waiting for 2012 wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:51am.

Move Over, MoveOn: Tea Parties Spark Conservative Insurgency Online

You might be interested in this.

http://firedoglake.com/2009/04/13/corporate-lobyists-raising-money-for-t...

nades (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:16am.

I found a few tent rows downtown san diego last night. scary stuff...

http://econpictures.blogspot.com/

Borocco Mama wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:16am.

Sociopaths are incredibly adroit at recognizing patterns and exploiting the hell out of them for their benefit. Actually, the act of exploiting those patterns is the benefit for them. The rest, i.e. riches, is really unnecessary gravy and/or icing.

hc wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:17am.

Blackhalo (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 9:21am.

"Unfortunately, I'd say the worst is still ahead of us."

For me, the question is, how long can the bankers and their minions, in the administration, keep the facade from falling down. How much time and money will be wasted and how much additional suffering must we endure in their mad quest to sell the public on the insolvent being solvent.

I can answer that. Seeing that the govt is taking the opposite of transparency (CITE: FASB nonsense, Stress test, misc bailout funds), my bet is very long time. Remember, this is the same playbook as Japan's, and they're in 24 years of collapse (and counting)..

We're looking a years of holding the facade, until eventually, even a broken clock will get it right.

And they say housing bears are broken clocks a while back?

Black Star Ranch (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:21am.

"Why do we have a economic system that rewards sociopathic behavior?"

Because the system is rife with the types that ARE!

Why is it some guys worry about their wives "going out" and some don't? Outside of the "in your face infidelity", the guys that don't worry wouldn't entertain it themselves. It's not that the system has failed, it's the miscreants that RUN the system have failed. I also believe "moral hazard" is contagious within a population.

- - - - -

Black Star Ranch

Yearning to Learn (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:23am.

Once you "save" a post, you can go back in and edit it, and then "save" it again with the edits. Save may actually be more appropriate.

cinco-X:
I ONLY have a save button. I don't have any other button.

when I hit "save" then it posts to CR.
I am unable to edit after I hit Save. At least I don't think I can.

Maybe it's just my operating system? Do you all have "post" buttons or similar?

MaryAnn wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:24am.

Straw buyers, as in The Easter Bunny.

Tupuli (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:33am.

Maybe it's just my operating system? Do you all have "post" buttons or similar?

Everyone has a save button. The "edit" option is in the bottom right* corner of the blue box containing your post.

*fixed

--

The Zombie Apocalypse begins when U3 hits 15%

Tim waiting for 2012 wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:25am.

SAY What?

India's Tech Mahindra Wins Scandal-Scarred Satyam

http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/apr2009/gb20090413_382507....

The acquisition finally puts to rest three months of uncertainty for many of Satyam's clients, which include Nestlé, Citibank (C), and General Motors (GM), after the Jan. 7 confession of then-Chairman B. Ramalinga Raju to a $1 billion fraud.

Citi and GM what a portfolio

Ministry of Truth wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:25am.

FYI: My friend who is a software engineer just got a 15% paycut today

Yearning to Learn (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:26am.

oops, now I see an edit after my last post.
but not after the post at 10:57 am.

regardless, this hoocoodanode is way better than the last system, and I think it's even better than Haloscan before, now that I know I can post using the "save" button!

Thanks again CR/Ken.

also: you slackers should chip in, Ken, CR, et al put in a lot of work on this.

---
Thanks Tupuli. As long as I know I'm not "different"

Smile

energyecon (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:25am.

The rising UE has become a leading indicator for consumer credit default and increasing foreclosures in the tranch formerly known as prime...the feedback mechnisms are only now beginning to kick in.

http://energyecon.blogspot.com/

MS wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:26am.

I remember when these were showing up as public record. The reporter who "covered" the allegations of this failed to ask any questions that require some critical thinking.....and look where it ends up.

I've seen both properties.....I'm not a journalist however one look at them and ANYONE could see that something was not correct in the filings....it was all there in October of last year when the first of these records came to light. Seems like this will be the template for cramming as much into the FHA as possible.

Ciao
MS

Tim waiting for 2012 wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:29am.

"Seems like this will be the template for cramming as much into the FHA as possible."

+1 no one has said this yet but yeah...

Yearning to Learn (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:31am.

FYI: My friend who is a software engineer just got a 15% paycut today

as many of you know, I'm a doctor in the Twin Cities area.
Many of the big systems are under significant financial pressure right now. There have been a lot of layoffs of techs, nurses, med assistants so far.

I'd not be surprised if we start seeing MD layoffs as well in the next year. (MD's are typically the last to go, as it is VERY hard to rehire good talent)

those who think we're "safe" from all this pain in healthcare are misinformed.

something's going on out there... anecdotally, I typically see 24-28 patients per day. The last 2 weeks ALL OF A SUDDEN I started only seeing 18-20 per day. many due to people failing to show up, or getting here and finding out they don't have insurance, etc. since I'm paid by revenue generated by seeing patients, my revenue has dropped a good 30%+ the last 2-3 weeks.

My job is probably as secure as anybody's in the country, and even I'm nervous.

Al-Anonia wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:32am.

Repeat after me; rational economic decision making.

The difference being, when someone of means buys a house, then ends up underwater, it is just logical to stop paying the mortgage - you know, to save up a down payment for a rental on the same street, to avoid disruption. This is a clear cut case of rational economic decision making.

But when someone without the same means tries to buy a house, then walks - it is a clear cut case of moral hazard.

I bet that it isn't hard to tell the rational self interest group from the moral hazard group - the rational self interest group have degrees from good universities, professions often involving at least a minimal grasp of basic mathematics, and they provide the backbone of America's moral fibre.

The others? Moral hazard all the way, because they clearly aren't able to control themselves from going into debt, then walking away from their obligations when it isn't in their clear interest to meet them.

Tim waiting for 2012 wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:35am.

Yearning to Learn

Hospitals are hemorrhaging money and everyone is looking up at the Federal Gov't now waiting to get paid. Even Medicaid. Scary Stuff. Congressmen get your Checks and Pens ready!

Cinco-X (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:36am.

"I ONLY have a save button. I don't have any other button."
This may only apply to regitered users, but it you look at the bottom right hand corner of a post, you'll see a reply link, and if you actually wrote the post, there'll also be an "edit" link.

Tim waiting for 2012 wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:36am.

Sorry I meant Taxpayers. Anyways market is loving the good news.

rander (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:37am.

YTL - I'm in the dfw area and there are still many around here who are still in lala land. A friend in the healthcare industry in MI is also scared, they have already layed off some of their doctors in her group on top of all the support staff. Definitely wise to be cautious in these times.

rander

MS wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:37am.

well one could say that the current system encourages nothing but debt with no real ability to ever pay it off. See U.S. gov't fiscal policy for a great primer on that.

There are a few choices here.....do it with them or get left behind. In either case the middle class gets screwed.

Ciao
MS

Tim waiting for 2012 wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:39am.

US Government will cut reimbursements further for States and County Hospitals and Clinics. Good Thing hospitals have strong unions to prevent any job losses. Small clinics will shut down and taxes will go higher.

lineup32 (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:41am.

The ability to unload these properties into the government run banking systems is always the central point for the fraud . With many years of widespread fraud, poor underwriting standard, creating jacked up property values in Calif it seems impossible that a buyer could trust recent appraisals since they are all based on prior sales. Folks would be better to judge home values based upon median income ranges for zips using a 3X factor which would give a better indication of were prices should be and might be heading in the future.

Broward Horne wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:44am.

"my revenue has dropped a good 30%+ the last 2-3 weeks."

------------------

Wow.
I have to ask, what happened to your revenue during the 2001 Crash?

rander (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:45am.

Tim w/4 2012: I wouldn't be too sure bout those strong unions. A friend in MI has already seen much of the staff - mostly union, laid off. These are the same unions in the hospitals. The union members thought they were going to be safe, but surprise!

rander

Arbitrage Macht Frei wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:45am.

When they killed off the maximum skill jobs, I didn't care because it didn't effect me,

When they killed off the minimum skill jobs, I didn't care because it didn't effect me,

When it turned out our entire economy was just a con-job, it was too late to care anymore.

Anonymousie wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:48am.

I miss the days when I counted interesting times as going to a new ethnic restaurant and a flick with subtitles with a woman I met online.

JimPortlandOR (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:49am.

Whoa! Zombie Banks and Werewolf mortgage fraud participants.

This won't stop until fraud in lending/borrowing has serious jail time (criminal felonies) and is enforced like drug traficing.

Throw away the keys (to the jail cells)!

Even better, sentences for 10 years of public service doing manual tasks: park maintenance, sewer maintenance, road maintenance. Make them sweat out those evil practices in their behavior.

(I wouldn't even object to some public executions for repeat offenders).

ecoshift (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:50am.

The global savings glut is real.

savings glut = inequitable distribution of wealth

1 trillion in a few hands = too much money chasing too few investment opportunities = bubble economy
1 trillion in 1,000,000 hands = increased spending = economic growth = opportunities for productive investment

dfdfgh wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:50am.

"I'm in the dfw area and there are still many around here who are still in lala land."

DFW is the epicenter of lala land... but I'm biased. I grew up there.

Massive SUVs and trucks, McMansions for everybody, and church on Sunday so jeebus can make things all better. There is nothing to worry about because "there is a reason for everything" and "everything will work out for the best".

reptillian (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:53am.

I figure that if no one goes to jail over this, everyone in the country should be sent a get-out-of-jail-free card.

Anonymousie wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:53am.

Here is what happens when you pitch a tent too close to the taxpayers.

St. Petersburg Police cutting up homeless tents

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrPdZmPB36U

bobnbot (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:55am.

NEW POST at Calcluated Risk.

Ways to view:

Dead simple, read only interface at: http://users.thelink.net/bobn/CR

CRC-like interface at http://realize.org/cr/crcizer/phpCRo.php

Full Blown Interface at http://www.hoocoodanode.org/

For live chat, and the new Mishbot feature, as well as notice of new posts on other blogs, join us in IRC.

To access IRC with firefox, install the chatzilla add-on and go to irc://irc.realize.org:9996/calculatedrisk.

Or set your IRC client for server irc.realize.org port 9996 and /join #calculatedrisk.

Feed back via bobn

Arbitrage Macht Frei wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 10:58am.

"Even better, sentences for 10 years of public service doing manual tasks: park maintenance, sewer maintenance, road maintenance. Make them sweat out those evil practices in their behavior."

This is exactly what the Soviets did to the leader of Czechoslovakia after the Spring of 1968...

Alexander Dubček ended up working for the forest service, in Slovakia.

Tim waiting for 2012 wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 11:00am.

Rander Multiply that problem by 50+ and see what happens. Few years ago someone outside a hospital nearby got beat in the head by a union member picket sign over "educational benefits" just wait until we are talking layoffs.

warlock (member) wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 11:05am.

Snacky,

yes, it was the regulated banking system i was referring to. That is, those who are allowed to participate directly in fractional reserve based lending. As you say, there's an accompanying problem of the bad driving out the good, as well, for banks that decide not to participate in this.

It doesn't begin to be over until all forms of asset backed securities are banned.

Tim waiting for 2012 wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 11:07am.

The Future of Retirement in the USSA

1. All working people will be required to pay (5-10% of income) into a Government Pension Fund which will invest in US treasuries or Bailout Bonds. People will be returned that money when they reach 72 years of age in the for of Monthly checks.

2. 401k will not have to be offered and their will be no company matches. Instead Companies will contribute to the Pension Fund

3. All corporate, state and Municipal Pensions will be folded into the new program because hey they were insolvent anyways.

4. Roth IRA's will still be available.

It will be sold as a WIN-WIN. Win for the Government because you no longer have people deferring taxes. Win for the "common man" because he has governemnt security.

Lose for capitalism, personal responsibility and enterprise.

Oh Smack we went positive =) If we go positive tomorrow I'll have to cover some

black dog wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 11:18am.

I wouldn't go so far as to call CR pollyanish but I frequently find myself going 'yeah, but if...' after he comments that the economy will show improvement by year's end.

I COULD buy into his arguement IF we see the rebound before the currency/bond market/ a sovereignty/ Big Three/fill in the blank collapses. A few to many *ifs* for my liking. I would love to see CR address the likelihood of some of these ifs and what it would take for him to become (more) pessimistic.

ct78 wrote on Mon, 04/13/2009 - 11:36am.

Who is footing the 20% down payment on these "perfect and clean" mortgages? I wonder if the lenders are really victims in this scam.

Done