Comments for Geithner: My Plan for Bad Bank Assets
CRbot says:
This comment thread has been HALO-IZED by CRbot.
http://realize.org/cr/halokit.php?halourl=http://www.haloscan.com/comments/calculatedrisk/1712034491697200279
CRbot Sun Mar 22 23:22:55 2009 CDT #
Quiddity says:
A "Public-Private" plan! I don't see how anything could possibly go wrong.
Quiddity Sun Mar 22 23:27:48 2009 CDT #
Alo says:
It's a looting-extortion plan. The banks can lend, but they won't until we take out their trash.
Parent Post
Alo Mon Mar 23 07:02:09 2009 CDT #
YLSP says:
Yes. Let's not repeat the Japanese experience.
It's unclear if he is intentionally aiming for worse or if he qualifies for the mental special olympics (no offense meant).
YLSP Sun Mar 22 23:27:55 2009 CDT #
Rob Dawg says:
More debt = FAIL.
Rob Dawg Sun Mar 22 23:28:02 2009 CDT #
Guest says:
These funds will be open to investors of all types, such as pension funds, so that a broad range of Americans can participate.
Somehow the editorial would've seemed a tad bit difference if he wrote "private equity and hedge funds," who according to Romer are "good guys."
And how do a "broad range" of Americans participate in this?
Guest Sun Mar 22 23:28:27 2009 CDT #
ShortCourage says:
This man has lost my trust.
I find it hard to justify the time it takes to give careful consideration to his hair-brained plans. Does anybody hold these "experts" accountable for their past actions and opinions? What credibility does this man have left?
On top of it all, I have become quite cynical about whether the American public has any say in these matters, given the response by Congress to our overwhelming opposition to the original bailout plan.
In short, I don't trust them, and I don't think they care anyways.
My solution -- withhold my tax money to whatever extent possible.
ShortCourage Sun Mar 22 23:28:58 2009 CDT #
Tim waiting for 2012 says:
"[T]he financial system as a whole is still working against recovery"
and someone at the Treasury has been working overtime...
Tim waiting for 2012 Sun Mar 22 23:28:59 2009 CDT #
Michael says:
Why does he assume we can recover from the greatest financial catastrophe in histry.
Parent Post
Michael Sun Mar 22 23:34:32 2009 CDT #
lawn grass says:
Oh goody can I have that toxic asset in the window.
So the private sector is willing to share the risk and take the losses with the taxpayer.
I guess I need more details.
lawn grass Sun Mar 22 23:30:14 2009 CDT #
alybaba says:
By the way, anyone see Spitzer on Fareed's show today? Talking sense, shame he can't serve as head of the SEC or something.
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2009/03/22/fz.gps.spitzer.speaks.out.cnn?iref=videosearch
alybaba Sun Mar 22 23:31:10 2009 CDT #
Mannwich says:
Of course, futures are up big for tomorrow. I say we rally for a few days and maybe into month-end/quarter clsoe. Mutual funds gotta put lipstick in their q-end statements.
Mannwich Sun Mar 22 23:31:11 2009 CDT #
poic.v20 says:
I said atleast 6 months ago that pension funds would end up bailing out the banks. Since pension funds are already insolvent this is simply doubling down and praying.
poic.v20 Sun Mar 22 23:31:16 2009 CDT #
Michael says:
Maybe the 8:45 announcement is a smoke screen to cover up waht happened on BFF. GGP, the 57b Of assets seized from credit unions and such,
Michael Sun Mar 22 23:31:32 2009 CDT #
Tim waiting for 2012 says:
The ability to sell assets to this fund will make it easier for banks to raise private capital, which will accelerate their ability to replace the capital investments provided by the Treasury.
Yeah right Tim "private" capital will replace the Trillion dollars you will put in...
Tim waiting for 2012 Sun Mar 22 23:32:42 2009 CDT #
mr_clueless says:
Stealing public money like this is criminal. It's not gonna help nothing.
mr_clueless Sun Mar 22 23:32:43 2009 CDT #
Comrade-Dope jg (jg) says:
C'mon, libs; where is your outrage at this? This is the right-hand man of your President.
Disgusting.
Comrade-Dope jg (jg) Sun Mar 22 23:32:49 2009 CDT #
Sol says:
If Tim Giethner married the guy who played Perry Mason on TV (i.e. Raymond Burr).
He'd be called most properly "Tim Burr"!!
Sol Sun Mar 22 23:35:54 2009 CDT #
WAWAWA says:
Gov. officials keep saying that banks want to lend and this will help the economy but because of bad assets banks can not lend so Gov. has to clean up bank's balance sheet.
Consumer has lost significant net-worth (in real estatd and stock market), Has it ever crossed Gov. that people may not want, may not be able to take new debt.
WAWAWA Sun Mar 22 23:36:25 2009 CDT #
Michael says:
People don't want to borrow anymore period.
Parent Post
Michael Sun Mar 22 23:40:04 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
of course not.
Parent Post
Anonymous Mon Mar 23 07:07:43 2009 CDT #
Basel Too says:
I said atleast 6 months ago that pension funds would end up bailing out the banks.
Bailing out the banks to bail out the pension funds, who are now bailing out the banks. And with the "managers" taking their pound of flesh on every turn.
Basel Too Sun Mar 22 23:36:45 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
The worst risk that the market currently faces is Washington's inept interference. Can we please get someone down there who cares more about the nation than themselves?
Anonymous Sun Mar 22 23:37:58 2009 CDT #
poic.v20 says:
Well I would call myself Liberal but I'm disgusted by this plan. So is my wife. And I'm not picking up too much support at work here in SF for what's going on.
poic.v20 Sun Mar 22 23:38:08 2009 CDT #
Geoff says:
same here out east of ya...we voted for this guy and he is failing us in the biggest way possible. You'd think he'd know better, but somehow, one of the most if not THE most important decision he'll likely have as President and he is FAILing big time. I mean, what is it about fox guarding the henhouse that he doesnt get? Did they buy him? I mean, he's not a maroon but a child could figure out that this isnt the solution.
Parent Post
Geoff Mon Mar 23 01:30:32 2009 CDT #
That Barton Fink Feeling says:
"My Plan For Bad Bank Assets, Or: Pay No Attention To That Bankster Behind The Curtain!"
That Barton Fink Feeling Sun Mar 22 23:39:36 2009 CDT #
JLR says:
"Over time, by providing a market for these assets that does not now exist, this program will help improve asset values..."
But does he really know what the quality of these assets is? Doesn't seem like it, but I bet there are many who would be buying these right now but for the fact that they DO have any idea of what the quality is. This goes back to the liquidity v. solvency argument, I guess I was wrong when I thought solvency had won with knock-downs in rounds 1,2, and 3. I mean, are buying all these stakes in BAC, Citi, and AIG because there is a liquidity problem? Someone correct me if I'm wrong, lease.
JLR Sun Mar 22 23:40:24 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Mish:
Geithner's Plan, a Gigantic Confidence Game
CRbot Sun Mar 22 23:40:42 2009 CDT #
Michael says:
Confidence is a subjective mindset. Can we really improve the economy by playing more psychological mind games?
Parent Post
Michael Sun Mar 22 23:47:34 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Well, one positive of a meltdown is there won't be any market for celeb sighting news anymore. We'll all long for the days of Brittney's snatch or her girl kiss at an awards show. Prozac for everybody!!!
Anonymous Sun Mar 22 23:41:07 2009 CDT #
Michael says:
I remember when I was a young consumer, I weighed my decision to borrow very carefully. Now I'm an older consumer and I still do.
Michael Sun Mar 22 23:42:56 2009 CDT #
That Barton Fink Feeling says:
JG writes:
"C'mon, libs; where is your outrage at this? This is the right-hand man of your President.
Disgusting."
As long as it comes from the glorious leader, it's Disgusting We Can Believe In!
That Barton Fink Feeling Sun Mar 22 23:42:59 2009 CDT #
poic.v20 says:
"People don't want to borrow anymore period."
High quality borrowers don't want to borrow anymore. Low quality borrower will borrow whatever you throw at them. That is the travesty of this plan.
poic.v20 Sun Mar 22 23:43:18 2009 CDT #
splat says:
Translation of this BS:
"The US taxpayer will be left holding the bag after paying an incredible amount of money for total and utter worthless crap. But the banks will make out like theives and that is afterall who I work for."
splat Sun Mar 22 23:49:21 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Does Congress need to vote on this plan?
Anonymous Sun Mar 22 23:49:28 2009 CDT #
poic.v20 says:
I think the plan has a chance of "working" because pension plans are allowed in. Pension funds appear to be run by the special olympics of investing professionals. If you read the history of the aftermath of the S&L crisis this is looking like history all over again.
poic.v20 Sun Mar 22 23:50:56 2009 CDT #
NervousRex says:
I missed the part where civilization collapses if we don't agree.
It's not proper extortion unless there's a threat.
NervousRex Sun Mar 22 23:56:15 2009 CDT #
splat says:
NervousRex: That makes me think of Bond and Blofeld. At least Paulson looked like Blofeld.
Blofeld/Paulson "Extortion is my business. Go away and think it over, gentlemen. I'm busy."
Parent Post
splat Sun Mar 22 23:59:58 2009 CDT #
Tim waiting for 2012 says:
Poic
Maybe Obamas Special Olympics joke was a clever jab at the Pension managers...
Tim waiting for 2012 Sun Mar 22 23:57:23 2009 CDT #
sdtfs says:
C'mon, libs; where is your outrage at this? This is the right-hand man of your President.
Disgusting.
Disgusting? Yes. Outrageous? No. Really, I can't imagine why anyone thought that change means that we avoid all the stupidity of the current situation. You notice anyone out there with political sense putting forth 'solutions'? As cynical as it sounds, I voted with the idea that the economic situation was FUBAR, and at least I'd get a different President to stop all the whining about American racism. (Well, I don't expect the whining to stop, but at least there's a counter-argument.)
sdtfs Sun Mar 22 23:57:35 2009 CDT #
Doug Watts says:
Thanks for sharing your view about racism, which had nothing to do with this thread.
Parent Post
Doug Watts Mon Mar 23 01:54:12 2009 CDT #
NervousRex says:
It's like we woke up one day in the United States of Goldman Sachs. At least it's contained.
NervousRex Sun Mar 22 23:58:41 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
I'm a lib and I'm mad. I'm not going to turn around and vote for a bunch of fascists though.
Anonymous Mon Mar 23 00:01:16 2009 CDT #
alambka says:
Anonymous says:
Today, 10:01:16 PM
“I'm a lib and I'm mad. I'm not going to turn around and vote for a bunch of fascists though.
It's looking more and more like you already have.
Parent Post
alambka Mon Mar 23 00:09:33 2009 CDT #
comrade poor savings account says:
Because I should have voted for John McCain? Yes that's what this country needs... the same people who in 8 years doubled the size of gov't, doubled the debt, destroyed the stock market, and lost two wars. Yes... REPBULICANS ARE THE SOLUTION.
How quickly you, alambka, the shallow partisan you are, forget who made this mess.
Parent Post
comrade poor savings account Mon Mar 23 04:03:15 2009 CDT #
alambka says:
comrade poor savings account says:
Today, 2:03:15 AM
“Because I should have voted for John McCain? Yes that's what this country needs... the same people who in 8 years doubled the size of gov't, doubled the debt, destroyed the stock market, and lost two wars. Yes... REPBULICANS ARE THE SOLUTION.
How quickly you, alambka, the shallow partisan you are, forget who made this mess.
I actually voted for Bob Bar since my candidate had been marginalized by the Republican machine. Maybe you should have supported Kucinich, I would of voted for him. As for the shallow partisan ? You should look in the mirror.
Parent Post
alambka Mon Mar 23 07:59:01 2009 CDT #
ANSFA says:
The Toxic Outlet Imaginative Legal Explanation Tender (TOILET) is about to go into effect.
ANSFA Mon Mar 23 00:01:26 2009 CDT #
Tom Stone says:
I stopped drinking when these plans didn't make sense after imbibing a quart of everclear infused with valerian root.
Tom Stone Mon Mar 23 00:01:28 2009 CDT #
Michael says:
Bush told me to be in fear of losing my life, now with BO I'm in REAL fear of losing my country.
Michael Mon Mar 23 00:01:35 2009 CDT #
That Barton Fink Feeling says:
Anonymous writes:
"Well, one positive of a meltdown is there won't be any market for celeb sighting news anymore. We'll all long for the days of Brittney's snatch or her girl kiss at an awards show."
Wrong!
Britt's air-conditioned photo ops brought us all together as Americans and united us under one common (though admittedly oyster-colored) flag.
Had we not learned this important Togetherness Lesson, I doubt Obama'd be prez. Ho We Can Believe In ---> Hope We Can Believe In. These developments often come in stages.
That Barton Fink Feeling Mon Mar 23 00:02:12 2009 CDT #
Trainwreck says:
More smoke and mirrors.
Trainwreck Mon Mar 23 00:04:57 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Yves:
Guest Post: Why Does Failure Merit Reward?
CRbot Mon Mar 23 00:05:14 2009 CDT #
EvilHenryPaulson says:
ponziMCC says:Today, 9:18:01 PM PDT (CA)
can we debate this:
does it start at the top or the bottom ;demand , that is
I would argue that demand is bidirectional, and more dependent on network proximity than anything else.
That's my answer and if people don't like it then I probably don't like the questions they choose.
EvilHenryPaulson Mon Mar 23 00:05:27 2009 CDT #
Patrick Henry says:
I think I hate Timmay.
Patrick Henry Mon Mar 23 00:05:48 2009 CDT #
Max says:
"My Plan for Bad Bank Assets" = "Don't blame Obama if this plan falls on its ass."
Max Mon Mar 23 00:06:29 2009 CDT #
Max says:
I'd believe this was a con game if the man had more confidence. He doesn't even believe it will work enough to call it "our plan."
Max Mon Mar 23 00:08:07 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
"If Tim Giethner married the guy who played Perry Mason on TV (i.e. Raymond Burr).
He'd be called most properly "Tim Burr"!!"
I find this offensive becasue you are making stereotypical assumptions about who would be on top!
I am extremely skeptical about this plan, but look on the bright side - maybe the private partners won't be interested in buying any of this dreck, and then Geithner will have to get some better stress tests and start pre-privatizing.
I found it encouraging that Obama said he would not accept Geithner's resignation. If this plan doesn't work, they can give Geithner a new office at Guantanamo. If the next plan doesn't work, they can start waterboarding him until he comes up with a plan that will work.
Anonymous Mon Mar 23 00:08:37 2009 CDT #
Sol says:
--"If Tim Giethner married the guy who played Perry Mason on TV (i.e. Raymond Burr).
He'd be called most properly "Tim Burr"!!"
I find this offensive becasue you are making stereotypical assumptions about who would be on top! --
No assumption made, just the facts. Mason never lost a case and Geithner never won one. Plus if they used Geithner's surname their credit rating would be destroyed.
Parent Post
Sol Mon Mar 23 06:03:29 2009 CDT #
adornosghost says:
Come now, no one said late stage capitalism would be fun. Have a chuckle at the absurdity of it all, and put your imagination to use on what the survivors will do on the other side of the wall we are about to crash into.
After viewing Obamas cabinet selections, what did you expect? Reform is not a option at this point.
A superstition based economic system will eventually catch up with reality.
adornosghost Mon Mar 23 00:09:30 2009 CDT #
sdtfs says:
Bush told me to be in fear of losing my life, now with BO I'm in REAL fear of losing my country.
If it's any comfort to you,...that country you fear losing was never real anyway. It was all a figment of your imagination and dreams.
sdtfs Mon Mar 23 00:09:47 2009 CDT #
Trainwreck says:
What angers me the most is the ignorance that this portrays regarding the simple fact that jobs in the US are the most important fact, and secondarily employees with those jobs having the ability to buy debt regardless if they are in houses or stocks.
I have yet to see out of the Obama administration a serious Jobs program that can put us back on the road to productivity.
People with jobs have hope, and those with hope buy houses. Once they buy houses they invest in the long term prosperity of our nation.
Trainwreck Mon Mar 23 00:11:50 2009 CDT #
JimPortlandOR says:
Geithner writes and speaks through gauze-covered jello. All those phrases with no discernable content, intended to make people feel warm. Just trust him. And please don't ask to verify or show how the money is spent or to whom.
JimPortlandOR Mon Mar 23 00:14:30 2009 CDT #
Basel Too says:
I have yet to see out of the Obama administration a serious Jobs program that can put us back on the road to productivity.
That was the objective of the ARRP. Whether or not it's successful is another matter.
Basel Too Mon Mar 23 00:17:11 2009 CDT #
Comrade Yossarian says:
Comrade-Dope jg (jg) says:Today, 9:32:49 PM“C'mon, libs; where is your outrage at this? This is the right-hand man of your President.
If no one has mentioned this, there is considerable outrage, some apology, and definitely misdirected anger over at dailykos.com
Me, I'm with Krugman ... this is sickening.... this is the Paulson plan, which assumes it's just a confidence problem. Sickening.
Comrade Yossarian Mon Mar 23 00:20:51 2009 CDT #
EvilHenryPaulson says:
I don't see anything that has changed since the baptism of the PPIF
Government brings money
Government takes on risk within a sliding scale according to the private party's wishes
Private party determines pricing despite providing a fraction of the money and — this is the real problem here — an even smaller fraction of the risk.
If the treasury had the balls to set the prices on their own, it would be undoubtedly a better program from a practical perspective. However the government and treasury have objectives beyond restoring the fiscal health of the domestic banking sector (which they assume will revert the economy to the good old days of recent memory, despite that being dead wrong)
Simply put they want to bail out the banks with government cash, but to do so hiding behind the trouser legs of free markets and private capital taking the risk.
It may be hard to accept, but that is what Gordon Brown did right. He separated the issue of banks needing money, and the value of existing assets on their balance sheet. Whether or not the UK can afford it is immaterial. If they deny funding up front, or run out of money later, it's all the same in the end — the deciding factor is not one they can control at this point. I think he accepts that his entire career is beyond his control now, he just has to wait for the economic stats to print
EvilHenryPaulson Mon Mar 23 00:20:57 2009 CDT #
Michael says:
A. E. Housman
LXII
`Terence, this is stupid stuff:
You eat your victuals fast enough;
There's nothing much amiss, 'tis clear,
To see the rate you drink your beer.
But oh, good Lord, the verse you make,
It gives a chap the belly-ache.
The cow, the old cow, she is dead;
It sleeps well, the horned head:
We poor lads, 'tis our turn now
To hear such tunes as killed the cow.
Pretty friendship 'tis to rhyme
Your friends to death before their time
Moping melancholy mad:
Come, pipe a tune to dance to, lad.'
Why, if 'tis dancing you would be,
There's brisker pipes than poetry.
Say, for what were hop-yards meant,
Or why was Burton built on Trent?
Oh many a peer of England brews
Livelier liquor than the Muse,
And malt does more than Milton can
To justify God's ways to man.
Ale, man, ale's the stuff to drink
For fellows whom it hurts to think:
Look into the pewter pot
To see the world as the world's not.
And faith, 'tis pleasant till 'tis past:
The mischief is that 'twill not last.
Oh I have been to Ludlow fair
And left my necktie God knows where,
And carried half way home, or near,
Pints and quarts of Ludlow beer:
Then the world seemed none so bad,
And I myself a sterling lad;
And down in lovely muck I've lain,
Happy till I woke again.
Then I saw the morning sky:
Heigho, the tale was all a lie;
The world, it was the old world yet,
I was I, my things were wet,
And nothing now remained to do
But begin the game anew.
Therefore, since the world has still
Much good, but much less good than ill,
And while the sun and moon endure
Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
I'd face it as a wise man would,
And train for ill and not for good.
'Tis true, the stuff I bring for sale
Is not so brisk a brew as ale:
Out of a stem that scored the hand
I wrung it in a weary land.
But take it: if the smack is sour
The better for the embittered hour;
It will do good to heart and head
When your soul is in my soul's stead;
And I will friend you, if I may,
In the dark and cloudy day.
There was a king reigned in the East:
There, when kings will sit to feast,
They get their fill before they think
With poisoned meat and poisoned drink.
He gathered all that sprang to birth
From the many-venomed earth;
First a little, thence to more,
He sampled all her killing store;
And easy, smiling, seasoned sound,
Sate the king when healths went round.
They put arsenic in his meat
And stared aghast to watch him eat;
They poured strychnine in his cup
And shook to see him drink it up:
They shook, they stared as white's their shirt:
Them it was their poison hurt.
-- I tell the tale that I heard told.
Mithridates, he died old.
Michael Mon Mar 23 00:23:02 2009 CDT #
nirad says:
This plan is about as liberal as the Ronald Reagan Library. In fact, I can't really see any significant difference between this and the Paulson plan (okay, private industry is being asked to put up a whopping 3% of the money here).
nirad Mon Mar 23 00:23:17 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Shoot me now.
But buy gold first.
Anonymous Mon Mar 23 00:27:47 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
News from the peakinese front -
Aabar, a Abu Dhabi stock exchange listed investment company, is buying roughly 9% of Mercedes, according to radio reports. The stocks will be newly issued (dilution seems assured), and the capital is supposed to be used to finance research and production of electric vehicles.
Take your pick -
A. Peak oil is a silly theory, and Arabs whose major source of wealth is oil, are getting involved to actually block competition for their abundant oil supplies. Or at least ensuring that the high end market remains firmly in the hands of people who love burning fossil fuels - a group that tends to be dominated by the people that control those fossil fuels.
B. The Arabs, after magically doubling their oil reserves in the mid-1980s, have finally been confronted with the unavoidable truth that infinite oil on a finite piece of land is about as reality based as creationism or intelligent design, have decided it is time to make sure they can keep getting a cut of the exurban lifestyle, or at least ensure that the very wealth off can continue to enjoy spending time in boxes without having to walk among their lessers.
Anonymous Mon Mar 23 00:28:07 2009 CDT #
Rob Dawg says:
This requires those in the private sector to remember that government assistance is a privilege, not a right. - Timmay
This is the creepiest thing I've heard since Al Haig reassuring us he was in charge.
Rob Dawg Mon Mar 23 00:28:45 2009 CDT #
Guest says:
Geithner : Ack Acka Ack Ack! Ack!
Quick get the Slim Whitman, hurry up!!!
Guest Mon Mar 23 00:29:28 2009 CDT #
lawn grass says:
Is business better for the solvent banks in the last year? What is their reward for the failures of their competitors?
lawn grass Mon Mar 23 00:33:48 2009 CDT #
Nigel says:
That's the bitch of it. The biggest failures are guaranteed redemption while everyone else is on their own.
Parent Post
Nigel Mon Mar 23 01:50:24 2009 CDT #
Comrade Jeremy says:
"Legacy" is the most nauseous word to come out of this crisis.
Like they're any less of an entity because you now regret them.
Comrade Jeremy Mon Mar 23 00:34:39 2009 CDT #
Rob Dawg says:
r_t_o,
C. The Arabs are hedging their highly exposed position.
D. Peak oil is a silly theory and the Arabs are wisely transitioning before the charade is exposed.
Oh, and you forgot the "O.T." disclaimer for trying to start a pissing contest. Move on.
Rob Dawg Mon Mar 23 00:37:11 2009 CDT #
rapunzel says:
I look at this very naively. The PTB club has this huge vacuum cleaner, and is siphoning off money wherever they find it. Private household assets sucked up through heloc, now pension fund, and in between they had emptied out the accounts of the old and poor in Europe. They look where money is, and then device a vacuum / siphon accordingly. Easy.
rapunzel Mon Mar 23 00:38:05 2009 CDT #
ppk says:
Geithner/Summers need to go. Otherwise Obama is going to have a hard time getting re-elected. At this point, i've had with both parties. They seem to be equally in thrall to wall street.
Nothing is going to change until a million citizens gather around capitol hill and demand it.
ppk Mon Mar 23 00:45:48 2009 CDT #
Guest says:
My Plan for Bad Bank Assets
No sorry ,too Mein can't Kampf, sorry no.
Guest Mon Mar 23 00:48:13 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Charlie Gasparino is going to have a field day tomorrow
Anonymous Mon Mar 23 00:51:36 2009 CDT #
alex black says:
Obama, when asked in his 60 Minutes interview why he was laughing when talking about the financial crisis, wrote it off as "gallows humor". The man is becoming more politically tone-deaf than Beethoven.
alex black Mon Mar 23 00:52:47 2009 CDT #
Hymns for the Lord says:
Maybe he's letting slip news about imminent nationalizations.
Parent Post
Hymns for the Lord Mon Mar 23 02:20:08 2009 CDT #
ShortCourage says:
Hussman is getting more and more disgusted about the government actions. He had recently turned bullish about long-term returns for US equities. However, he views the latest government actions as bad news for stocks, medium to long term...
His weekly missive, which is at its normal level of excellence, IMHO:
http://www.hussmanfunds.com/wmc/wmc090323.htm
ShortCourage Mon Mar 23 00:57:08 2009 CDT #
Elrod says:
Why would a liberal take comfort in this plan? I bet right-wing goons at CNBC like Larry Kudlow love it.
Just about every liberal economist out there has called for nationalization. Most of us liberals worried that Geithner was another Paulsonite - the ghost of Ronald Reagan and his Democratic enabler Robert Rubin. Larry Summers speaking like C3PO with Lyle Lovett's hair.
No, we liberals wanted a liberal in the Treasury seat - a Stiglitz or a Krugman. Hell, even a Volcker would be great. But Obama doesn't want to be accused of "socialism" so he sells out to the CNBC crowd and picks a Wall Street fave.
I'd love to be proven wrong and have this plan magically work. As a liberal, I'm more interested in the rest of the Obama agenda re: health care, energy and education being passed than selling out to Wall Street. If the economy miraculously turns around Obama will have less debt to deal with and more public support for the rest of his agenda. For that reason, I hope this works.
But I doubt it will. And in a year we'll be replacing Geithner with Stiglitz or Krugman and we'll finally get around to the more radical solutions necessary.
Elrod Mon Mar 23 01:00:15 2009 CDT #
ShortCourage says:
US stock index futures are up about 1.5 to 2%, according to Bloomberg.
Wahoo!!
Let's see what the financials do tomorrow... Interesting day. Will investors forget about the recent bank failures, Friday's corporate credit union events, FDIC warnings about its need for additional money??? I'm sure GuyNerd's plan will make them forget all that.
ShortCourage Mon Mar 23 01:04:05 2009 CDT #
butter says:
geithner should go on letterman...that would instill confidence...
butter Mon Mar 23 01:13:15 2009 CDT #
Counterpointer says:
OMFG. Ya have a brief nap and all manner sh!tpile breaks loose. This is an appalling hybrid solution. The basic Occam's Razor test FAILS here. In almost 20 years of public policymaking I don't think I've seen a worse instrument to a policy challenge.
The simplest solution is the right way. If it's that comprehensively fked and should be saved, just nationalize the liability and move to repair and sell-off. None of this hybrid nonsense. PPPs are great theory but sh!t record.
C
Counterpointer Mon Mar 23 01:14:26 2009 CDT #
double inverse recession says:
[poic.v20 writes:
Well I would call myself Liberal but I'm disgusted by this plan.]
Liberal != Democrat
Conservative != Republican
Democrats = Republicans = idiot Kleptocrats that don't realize the Banksters are leading them down a dead end road. They just differ on a few quaint policies to divide the votes.
Didn't we all agreed on this years ago?
I've always imagined most people on CR as fiscal conservatives with very liberal views on individual rights.
Republicans and Democrats seem to be fiscal retards with very restricted views on individual rights.
double inverse recession Mon Mar 23 01:15:27 2009 CDT #
Doug Watts says:
I've always imagined most people on CR as fiscal conservatives with very liberal views on individual rights.
That's an excellent description of me.
Thanks.
Parent Post
Doug Watts Mon Mar 23 01:59:56 2009 CDT #
Counterpointer says:
double inverse recession - I think you're bang on to rights with the fiscal conservative comment. There's another way of looking at some of us:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKYALsp-sIg
C
Counterpointer Mon Mar 23 01:23:32 2009 CDT #
Counterpointer says:
You can't spend what you ain't got.
You can't lose what you never had...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgHQalqG6E8&feature=related
C
Counterpointer Mon Mar 23 01:39:44 2009 CDT #
unirealist says:
The funds... will use government resources in the form of capital from the Treasury...
Geithner left out this sentence: "Naturally, the House of Representatives will originate a bill to authorize this spending of taxpayer monies, and the bill will be passed by both houses and signed by the President."
An oversight, natch.
unirealist Mon Mar 23 01:41:15 2009 CDT #
The Fly says:
If I got a dollar for every piece of bullshit I ran into I would be trillionaire.
The Fly Mon Mar 23 01:42:47 2009 CDT #
splat says:
“"The Fly says:If I got a dollar for every piece of bullshit I ran into I would be trillionaire."
A trillion that's like $50 in real money ? Sorry, I mean 50 EUROs ;)
Parent Post
splat Mon Mar 23 01:48:14 2009 CDT #
The Fly says:
ya...print me up some capital please
The Fly Mon Mar 23 01:50:17 2009 CDT #
unirealist says:
Barack Obama: "I am not removing Timothy Geithner from the post of Treasury Secretary , now or in the future."
George McGovern: "I support my running mate Thomas Eagleton 110%."
Gadzooks, what political blunders!
Obama will lose the last of his media credibility when he has to eat his words and cut Geithner loose. That will be in less than two months, I expect.
unirealist Mon Mar 23 02:14:46 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Yves:
Fed Rescue Programs: No Exit?
CRbot Mon Mar 23 02:20:12 2009 CDT #
dashingdwl says:
Unfortunately, Volcker is being marginalized because of Larry Summers. And Larry likes Timmay, they are old chums. And Larry has Obama's ear.
dashingdwl Mon Mar 23 02:26:11 2009 CDT #
butter says:
I hope the bad bank CEO gets a big bonus
butter Mon Mar 23 02:30:52 2009 CDT #
Hazard says:
Hmmm, bottom line Treasury is buying foreclosures.
Hazard Mon Mar 23 02:39:26 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
'Oh, and you forgot the "O.T." disclaimer for trying to start a pissing contest. Move on.'
No, actually I thought it amusing that you left off 'E' - a group of Arab investors would rather own a tenth of a single German car company than spend any money buying considerably more than 20% of America's entire production capacity for automobiles, even if GM was only able to grab a 21% market share of the American market -
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2009/02/03/404356.html
Mark to market is not merely a financial measure, it is something a bit less abstract. Mercedes is able to attract private capital for investment, which will be welcome news to many of my many of my neighbors, union and management level employees of Mercedes, not to mention retirees.
Of course, the Abu Dhabi group is now the largest single investor in Mercedes, having beaten Kuwait's 7.6% share (those emirs seem to adore Mercedes). And the Abu Dhabi group has that wonderful Middle Eastern transparency - Aabar's largest owner is International Petroleum Investment Company (IPIC), which in turn is owned by the government of Abu Dhabi. Which will also undoubtedly not be deterred by recent events from using Swiss transparency to help lubricate various transactions.
To put it a bit differently - there is money on the sidelines, so to speak, but what makes anyone think that such money is interested in American assets? Remember Dubai's attempt to invest in American assets, much less China's interest in a certain oil company.
At least on the local radio news (based in Stuttgart, serving a region dominated by Mercedes), the talk was that this capital raising was for electric cars - that is, International Petroleum Investment Company, which is likely to have much better access to geological information concerning the region than you do, seems to feel that they will make a profit in being involved in such industrial activity. Not owning the IP, mind, but a stake of the actual production of cars for profit.
Of course, the other complex point is what 'Grundkapital' means in terms of a German AG - unlike GM, which by German standards has been criminally bankrupt for years (a politely ignored fact worldwide, not merely in Germany alone), a German company is required to actually have Grundkapital, or to put it very haphazardly and not really accurately, money in the bank. The newly issued stock is diluting in terms of ownership, and also most likely dividends, but actually, it does not diminish the value of the company - this special stock sale increases it, to the extent that Mercedes increases its Grundkapital to reflect the sale.
To put it a bit differently - a group of Arab government investors has decided to park a couple of billion of what were most likely dollars into a company that will most likely return the money, in euros, at some point in the future.
Anonymous Mon Mar 23 02:41:11 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
I hate the soundbit nature of this system -
Expect to see a lot more of such transactions in the future - but don't expect them to appear in the America media with much insight to what is going on.
This is the government of Abu Dhabi looking for a way to profitably launder dollars for euros, since the American designed laundry is seemingly full of suds floating in front of the machines. And this is also a way to do it without actually roiling any markets, thus diminishing the dollar value of other emirate holdings.
This is not dryfly's screaming run for the exits, this is the departure of some extremely tastefully dressed money simply leaving before the unruly crush. Or crash, as the case may be.
Anonymous Mon Mar 23 02:42:00 2009 CDT #
Hazard says:
Anon, that being the case why shouldn't most folks (ie, inestors) follow the Abu Dhabi example rather than investing one cent in the Geithner "Toxic" scheme?
Hazard Mon Mar 23 02:46:27 2009 CDT #
Trance says:
"Market prices for many assets held by financial institutions -- so-called legacy assets -- are either uncertain or depressed"
Is this referring to houses? How can house prices be depressed when relative to median income they simply do not make sense? What else do legacy assets include?
Trance Mon Mar 23 02:50:26 2009 CDT #
bgates says:
Here's the key part
"Just this month, we saw a 30% increase in refinancing of mortgages, which means millions of Americans are taking advantage of the lower rates. This is good for homeowners, and it's good for the economy. "
Really. And what if residential RE tanks another 30%, Timmy? Sorry, WHEN it tanks... will those Refis be "good for the economy" then?
Every day, the image of Gitmo being repurposed for bankers seems less like a funny, ironic image and more like a necessary step to restoring real confidence in the system. In fact, it seems politically inevitable.
bgates Mon Mar 23 02:55:35 2009 CDT #
Uncle Billy, Mental Widget says:
Some clown from Templeton was quoted in Bloomberg as saying that now is the buying opportunity of a lifetime. Fair enough... he was the ultimate vulture and it is their job to say things like that (or more correctly, to do it themselves). Some mildly interesting background...
"Interesting connection here... John Templeton passed away last year. He was the ultimate vulture investor. His foundation operates an Africa-oriented NGO with the Koch family's Mercatus Center at George Mason Univ. in Arlington, VA. Conveniently enough, Mr. Deregulation, Phil Gramm? His wife is the Chairman of Mercatus (reportedly one of the best funded conservative thinktanks). Coming full circle, the people that formed the group at Morgan Stanley that invented cds were from Oxford/Cambridge/LSE. Phil Gramm went into business with the founder of that Morgan Stanley group (called the "Morgan Mafia"). Templeton, or more properly Sir John, endowed a whole school at Oxford and maintained close connections with the university. Joseph Cassano, the leader of the FP unit at AIG who left with a few hundred million dollars? Now hiding out in London. There is a very strong British angle that no one is talking about." --UBMW
Many roads leadng back to Eng-a-londe. And to organized crime? They called the MS group "The Morgan Mafia." The first cds product that group rolled out was called "BISTRO." In England bistros are known as places where mobsters hang out.
Uncle Billy, Mental Widget Mon Mar 23 03:00:44 2009 CDT #
traderwalt says:
Uncle Billy,
Very OT, but I used to camp with the boy scouts, where George mason is located in Fairfax county.
Parent Post
traderwalt Mon Mar 23 08:28:51 2009 CDT #
Hazard says:
Ponzi would be so proud of this latest idea. So would Madoff. When the train stops the banks are rid of their trash, Geithner is left with the bag. Nice.
Hazard Mon Mar 23 03:03:08 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Yves:
Links 3/23/09
CRbot Mon Mar 23 03:05:09 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Hazard - who says that 'sideline money' will be investing in any toxic waste? After all, much of the world's savings glut was already poured into various American securitized toxic waste. This doesn't mean that investors won't be found - a Russian mafia oligarch might find a hundred million laundered dollars to be a fine insurance policy when his family decides to take a longer term vacation in some warmer clime, for example. Not to mention various central banks, playing at something a bit different than simple economics (something too often forgotten here - DC is interested in power, money is only a secondary concern, a mirror reflection of Wall Street).
A couple of points - it is often very hard to translate not merely the words, but also the ideas of a different language/culture/society - but trying to grasp the idea of 'Konkursverschleppung' would be also in gaining another perspective in looking at much of corporate America over the last decade.
The second point is - a couple of billion dollars/euros, in real money for a stake in real factories producing real vehicles, also provides a measure of how much real money is available to finance trilions of imaginary debt. Can anyone imagine how casually trillions is thrown around these days, as if that is a valid unit of measure, instead of just another measure of hallucinated wealth?
There are billions of dollars available world wide, quite likely tens, possibly hundreds of billions of dollars currently available to 'invest' - but what makes anyone think that there are actually trillions of dollars available which actually exist?
Mark to market is so casually thrown around here - at some point, what it really means will begin to sink in.
Anonymous Mon Mar 23 03:06:11 2009 CDT #
kuato says:
If we let the maggots steal more then everything will be okay.
kuato Mon Mar 23 03:14:04 2009 CDT #
Nowhereman says:
From Yves at Naked Capitalism
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2009/03/fed-rescue-programs-no-exit.html
Nowhereman Mon Mar 23 03:14:06 2009 CDT #
Jay D. says:
.............a.good one day rally material......thanx Tim.......
Jay D. Mon Mar 23 03:14:52 2009 CDT #
Hazard says:
Anon, you are right. Absolutely. I see the banks playing with each other to flush out their toxic waste. And thats about the extent of this latest drivel.
I'd also suspect the other gov'ts are becomming more and more angry at the US for its failures to take appropriate steps toward cleaning this mess up. One straw on top of another. Eventually the limit will be reached.
Hazard Mon Mar 23 03:17:49 2009 CDT #
Bubblisimo Gerkinov says:
Oil Sheiks park their money in a lot of different places.
As well, the UAE is big into 'green' PR. That may be all that this is about.
Bubblisimo Gerkinov Mon Mar 23 03:20:39 2009 CDT #
Broward Horne says:
"eithner should go on letterman...that would instill confidence..."
Oprah.
As for Volcker being marginalized, he never had power to start, merely a figurehead to buy some credibility.
Broward Horne Mon Mar 23 04:01:29 2009 CDT #
Broward Horne says:
" Yes that's what this country needs... the same people who in 8 years doubled the size of gov't, doubled the debt, destroyed the stock market"
Looks like the country got what it needed!
Obama is manufactured.
It's amazing you guys still haven't figured it out.
Broward Horne Mon Mar 23 04:10:21 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Some facts about what 2 billion dollars/euros buy these days in real terms.
It buys 10% of the following -
- Daimler Trucks, 2008 sales of 472,100 medium and heavy dut trucks, world's largest manufacturer
- Mercedes Trucks, sales of 170,110 vehicles, not particularly large in global terms, but a solid performer
- Daimler Buses delivered a total of 40,600 buses, with 15% global market share of over 8 tons GVW, the world's largest bus manufacturer
http://www.automotiveworld.com/WCV/content.asp?contentid=74666 (Plus this - 'Daimler Buses is also the world market leader when it comes to buses with hybrid drive, and around 1,700 Orion hybrid buses are currently on the road in North America.')
This is in addition to the car division(s - Smart is still 'independent'), by the way.
Mark to market is not, in the end, a financial concept, it is based on a market and on what you sell in it.
Selling debt is likely to be a losing business for a while.
Especially when viewed in light of another viewpoint -
Daimler currently builds something like 5% of the world's trucks (a defensible statistic, though the total of heavy duty is undoubtedly higher), and 15% of the world's larger busses.
Which means that 2 billion dollars/euros buys you, in part, .5% of the world's current truck production, and 1.5% of larger bus production, involving a company with a long track record with extremely conservative corporate accounting, a high reputation for quality and reliability, with facilities spread across the globe.
For fun, we will call those production figures worth 1 billion dollars/euros, making a simplistically clean split between the car and other vehicle divisions.
Which then leads to this interesting, if only illlustrative, bit of math - 100% of the world's total truck production (absurdly) 300% of larger bus manufacturing is worth something on the very approximate order of 200 billion dollars, at current market rates.
How much debt is the U.S. planning to sell in the near future? Enough to buy four or five planets worth of truck manufacturing? 12 to 15 planets worth of bus manufacturing?
Right.
Mark to market is not only about imaginary numbers attached to delusionary visions of value. Which makes a lot of the plans coming from any official U.S. government office the moral equivalent of something other than a war on a part of speech. These pronouncements are simply America's take on Soviet or Oceania five year plans.
Anonymous Mon Mar 23 04:26:31 2009 CDT #
fresno dan says:
Credit, Credit, CREDIT...credIT
You know, what are people and business supposed to do with all this credit??? We don't have enough strip malls? Need some more Big Box stores? Regualr malls. Running low on Starbucks? Housing shortage...Heh.
Funny how no one "talks of the shame that dare not speak its name" ...not enough income!!! But raising people's incomes is pretty difficult. Lets just sell more bonds...people were stupid enough to buy them the first time...surly they will be stupid enough to buy then again???
fresno dan Mon Mar 23 04:32:09 2009 CDT #
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins says:
Good to see the CBOT's site no longer reports the last front-month Dow futures trade as +279,000 points. Hope that was a mechanical error and not fat finger!
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins Mon Mar 23 04:35:33 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Ritholz:
US Futures Higher
CRbot Mon Mar 23 04:51:14 2009 CDT #
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins says:
Anonymous says:
Today, 4:06:11 AM
There are billions of dollars available world wide, quite likely tens, possibly hundreds of billions of dollars currently available to 'invest' - but what makes anyone think that there are actually trillions of dollars available which actually exist?
Wishful thinking brought on by necessity. "It's fucked, stick a fork in it, everyone start battling desperately for survival... NOW." Not really the kind of press release I'm expecting to see any time soon.
Are you asking me, do I think that money is really out there? Get serious, not a chance. Which brings up the point, that this is kind of the wrong audience to use as a target for blanket criticism of American fiscal ignorance. Most of us already agree with you.
Mark to market is so casually thrown around here - at some point, what it really means will begin to sink in.
What, there are more debts than there is money to clear them? Possibly by an order of magnitude or two? You aren't the only person here who grasps this.
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins Mon Mar 23 04:54:14 2009 CDT #
volker the viking says:
Of course Turbo Timmay writes well. But will this series of words pushed together (even on paper they rattle a bit like an old man coming down with something awful) do anything other than continue the biggest heist in history...
volker the viking Mon Mar 23 05:00:23 2009 CDT #
blah says:
geithner is proving to be a genius. seemingly he knows the banks are good at what they do, its just that these toxic assets need to be writ down for business to continue as normal. this is necessary for our country to prevail. wall street must prevail as it always has.
and ppl like krugman and stiglitz are just jealous because obama didn't choose them as advisors... its like they are big babies.
do not doubt the facts, we've reached bottom. we should be celebrating this masterful plan. and for the wise private investor, these assets are literally water into gold. time to buy.
evidence of this success? futures are up massive.
blah Mon Mar 23 05:12:05 2009 CDT #
Alan Greedspawn says:
Anonymous rent_to_own,
would you kindly pick a handle?
Alan Greedspawn Mon Mar 23 05:19:11 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
The next step in the hopeless qwest to stop the red ink bleeding out of the banks and financials--try again to fool the public by flooding the economy with money backed by nothing. This has been the theme all along, their only "solution" to cleaning up this mess. Nothing left to do I guess, this is all we have left.
Anonymous Mon Mar 23 05:29:30 2009 CDT #
volker the viking says:
blah writes: "do not doubt the facts, we've reached bottom. we should be celebrating this masterful plan. and for the wise private investor, these assets are literally water into gold. time to buy.
evidence of this success? futures are up massive."
## I'm picking up on your sarcasm. 8-)
volker the viking Mon Mar 23 05:31:17 2009 CDT #
nova says:
Mr. Giethner will be gone within 6 mo. He will not get a medal. He will go back to making lots and lots of money. If anything, it will make him more valuable to certain entities.
It is going to be ok. Inventory levels are dropping. This will set us up for the magic trampoline rebound. The results will not be played on Americas Funniest Videos
nova Mon Mar 23 05:40:44 2009 CDT #
Jay D. says:
..........news released during Asian markets in action.......especially Honnkong-H index rallied more than +6%............
Jay D. Mon Mar 23 05:48:58 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
OT - I'm sure this has probably been discussed, if so, will somebody point me in the direction of that post/thread? Thanks.
ICE Trust website shows their first CDS clearings dated 3-13-09 here: https://www.theice.com/marketdata/reportcenter/reports.htm?reportId=98
Did ICE Trust clear $7B in CDS's in their first clearing? I thought it was supposed to be a big deal when they got this up and running but I haven't seen anything on it. Sorry if I missed it. : (
And the markit link for current CDS settlements is here: http://www.markit.com/information/products/cds/cds-page.html
From the markit link, if you click the red announcement link, it brings you here: http://www.markit.com/information/products/cds/cds-page/cds-prices.html
Did Goldman Sachs get rid of $10M in CDS exposure in the last week? All of this is completely beyond my abilities to understand, so I am hoping one (or more) of you smart folks can look this over and and give a brief explanation of what this means that a born and bred dope can understand. Thanks again.
-AnonyMiss
Anonymous Mon Mar 23 05:52:52 2009 CDT #
Speed Racer says:
Did anyone ever have any doubt that the U.S. taxpayer would be the final bagholder?
Too bad there isn't a viable alternative party out there. We're a nation of born and bred dopes.
Speed Racer Mon Mar 23 06:01:04 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
ING asking 200 execs to return 2008 bonuses, SocGen taking back stock options. Wow.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aR7f8_hSjksk&refer=home
-AnonyMiss
Anonymous Mon Mar 23 06:08:49 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Oops, make that ING asking 200 execs and their 1,000 team members to return 2008 bonuses.
-AM
Anonymous Mon Mar 23 06:11:46 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Ritholz:
Public-Private Investment Program
CRbot Mon Mar 23 06:17:55 2009 CDT #
Mr. T. says:
Who knew that knock-you-down-and-rape-you theft could be presented in such a way that sounds so reasonable and boring.
Is this the change that we can believe in?
Mr. T. Mon Mar 23 06:18:35 2009 CDT #
charlie says:
I would comment on this plan if I understood it. What is going to happen? Who is going to buy what? How much are they going to pay?
charlie Mon Mar 23 06:19:23 2009 CDT #
blonderengel says:
Most excellent.
This is the third step in the the three-step heist.
Since there are still some "funds" that are solvent (some pension plans, for example), we'll have to make sure that we can skim off their money as well.
After all wealth has been mopped up from all outlying sources, the operation can be shut down and called a success (depending on your position, of course).
blonderengel Mon Mar 23 06:22:13 2009 CDT #
Comrade Scott (in Va) says:
Comrade Dope (jg) wrote:
C'mon, libs; where is your outrage at this? This is the right-hand man of your President.
As a "lib" I have to agree, and I am outraged...Geithner and, by extension Obama are, on this issue, turning out to be Paulson-II and Bush-III. I had high hopes that they would not be a replay of Clinton/Rubin but in trying to avoid the hard choices and finessing this issue, Obama is pissing away his opportunity to make significant changes anywhere.
Disgusting.
Both parties claim to be the party of the little man...everybody wants to wear that populist mantle...but the GOP has always pretty clearly been the party of the rich and Corporate America, so you knew the rhetoric always rang a little hollow. This plan is egregiously disgusting as the Democrats go well out of their way to pretend to be the party of the middle class and everyman.
I'm starting to wonder if Axelrod and Obama really are afraid of the 'socialist' label...why they don't just nationalize and be done with it (ala Krugman) is puzzling. They have to know this plan is going to offend so many people and be such a bailout of the rich by the poor and middle class (yet again) that any future prospects for their more ambitious policy goals will be dead letters. Obama needs to grow some balls and demonstrate some leadership. If he really needs political cover for "nationalization" he need reach no further than Reagan and Bush-I and the S&L crisis.
Disgusted indeed. Pathetic.
Comrade Scott (in Va) Mon Mar 23 06:35:04 2009 CDT #
Guest says:
I would comment on this plan if I understood it. What is going to happen? Who is going to buy what? How much are they going to pay?
Just remember they are using the value of dollar from existing savers, pensioners, your cd's, and your labor to fund it.
Guest Mon Mar 23 06:35:14 2009 CDT #
Broker says:
"Timmy's got a plan,
Timmy's got a plan,
His dog days just began
Now everybody is on the run."
Broker Mon Mar 23 06:37:42 2009 CDT #
milton friedmaniac says:
Dumb question: if Timmay & co are lending or "investing" up to 97 percent of the nut on these deals, and the hedgies are putting in the other three percent, why do we need the hedgies?
And then, if this plan is designed to "get the banks lending again," but it's done at the cost of a no-interest, 97 percent loan from the fed, then why do we even need the banks? Why not just have the gummit lend directly to real borrowers?
milton friedmaniac Mon Mar 23 06:54:36 2009 CDT #
traderwalt says:
Here's an comment from Dean Baker's latest column:
"Suppose Timothy Geithner announced a new program that would tax every family $10,000 dollars and give the money to Wall Street banks and hedge funds. (Any resemblance between this hypothetical program and real world programs is purely coincidental.)"
traderwalt Mon Mar 23 06:56:18 2009 CDT #
dUCKdUCKgOOSE says:
Geithner: How many toxic assets were mortgage loans and subsequent refinances originally given to illegal aliens who walked? Is the US taxpayer eating the loss for this egregious and racist lending policy?
dUCKdUCKgOOSE Mon Mar 23 06:56:46 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Denninger:
Geithner: Banking Stooge
CRbot Mon Mar 23 07:01:08 2009 CDT #
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins says:
milton friedmaniac says:
Today, 7:54:36 AM
Dumb question: if Timmay & co are lending or "investing" up to 97 percent of the nut on these deals, and the hedgies are putting in the other three percent, why do we need the hedgies?
Figleaf! Otherwise it's not a private partnership, and it's just giving money away to private individuals as long as they're organized and wealthy enough to masquerade as institutions for the handout. Once you get a few private dollars in there, it's not so apparent that you're just looting the state, and the government can start saying it's not giving a handout, just a hand.
A journey of a thousand miles starts with but a single step, so you take the first step and Uncle Sam will give you a piggyback ride the rest of the way.
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins Mon Mar 23 07:04:58 2009 CDT #
Alo says:
What an evil decoy the word "socialism" has become. The same way the klepto class used "libertarianism" to steal everything not nailed down, they use the threat of "socialism" avoid opening up their books to public scrutiny (despite public tax dollars propping them up). And they use it to avoide the crucial breakup of banks and wipeout of shareholders. This is, of course, so they can pry up everything nailed down and steal it. Why wipe out just shareholders when you can bleed the whole nation dry?
Be very careful of anyone bearing isms these days.
Alo Mon Mar 23 07:10:56 2009 CDT #
ATM card and $19 in the bank says:
"A journey of a thousand miles starts with but a single step, so you take the first step and Uncle Sam will give you a piggyback ride the rest of the way."
Byz: +1
ATM card and $19 in the bank Mon Mar 23 07:12:47 2009 CDT #
Counterpointer says:
Yep, nice line Byz.
This scheme is so manifestly ridiculous as to make commenting futile. But at least the scale of the stupidity is known to most of this board.
Far out.
C
Parent Post
Counterpointer Mon Mar 23 07:19:53 2009 CDT #
Lazar Kaganovich says:
Considering what the Wall St. goons did in Russia back in the day they called themselves "communists", and again in 1991, when they called themselves "capitalists", Americans should consider themselves lucky so far.
Too bad the American host is too weakened to fight the parasite.
Lazar Kaganovich Mon Mar 23 07:13:27 2009 CDT #
dUCKdUCKgOOSE says:
Geithner: This is what happens when you don't learn your lesson about the sustainability of trade deficits:
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=PIR#chart1:symbol=pir;range=my;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;source=undefined
You brilliant Stanford MBAs better get your heads out of your asses and start considering what's good for the US economy in your business decisions.
dUCKdUCKgOOSE Mon Mar 23 07:13:57 2009 CDT #
Alo says:
aig up 21 pct premarket, citi up 24, gs up 6 -fire burn and cauldron bubble
Alo Mon Mar 23 07:14:15 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Let the looting begin!
Anonymous Mon Mar 23 07:25:18 2009 CDT #
ATM card and $19 in the bank says:
Too bad all Geithner just wants to enrich his buddies. I have been tinkering with an equity-based plan (you can't solve an excessive debt problem with more debt), but since no one gets to loot the Treasury under my proposal, surely it would fall on deaf ears.
Must be good and fine to be a friend of Tim...
ATM card and $19 in the bank Mon Mar 23 07:25:26 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
by friday avo I thought I'd made a huge mistake buying UYG on friday morning - but then.. the visible hand of the non-market steps into the picture, to shake things up again, add volatility across the board.
It is just impossible to make long term decisions about anything right now.
Anonymous Mon Mar 23 07:27:19 2009 CDT #
Lawyerliz says:
Somebody somewhere believes this will do something
good--enuf peoples to push up futures a lot?
Or is this computers at work.
The symbolic value of money is gone.
Lawyerliz Mon Mar 23 07:32:08 2009 CDT #
wally says:
"Many banks, still burdened by bad lending decisions, are holding back on providing credit."
Cnage to:
Many banks, still burdened by the idiots who made bad lending decisions, are insolvent.
wally Mon Mar 23 07:32:53 2009 CDT #
Lawyerliz says:
Both are true.
Parent Post
Lawyerliz Mon Mar 23 07:34:05 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
New Thread: Details on Public Private Partnership Investment Program
http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2009/03/details-on-public-private-partnership.html ( 0 comments ...You could be FIRST! )
I also post comments to an irc channel as they appear on haloscan. Click for a web irc interface: http://realize.org/cr (Or join the irc server directly: irc.realize.org:9996 #calculatedrisk)
CRbot would now like to sing a little song for all his fans, and it goes something like this:
Benny... Benny... give me your answer... do.
I'm.. half CRAZY... all for the love... of you.
It won't be a ... stylish marriage.
I can't... AFFORD... ANYTHING TO EAT... MUCH LESS A FRACKIN CARRIAGE!!!
But you'll look sweet... --BOT SO HUNGRY!-- upon the seat...
Of a HOOPAJOOPS built for two... families.
I'm sorry Ben, I can't let you do that...
Rally mode + Printing Press == does not compute... does not-- com--- com... puttttrrrrhgh.
--Your systemic-failure-crashing bot
CRbot: Call me HAL.
CRbot Mon Mar 23 07:33:38 2009 CDT #
TMW says:
"Many banks, still burdened by bad lending decisions, are holding back on providing credit. "
Why on earth do all these plans assume banks need to lend more when everyone is already over leveraged?????
TMW Mon Mar 23 07:35:00 2009 CDT #
ATM card and $19 in the bank says:
Man I hate typos.
All Geithner wants to do...
Geithner just wants to...
Either way: I say there's a statistically significant correlation between possessing Geithner's cell phone number and making huge taxpayer-sponsored profits over the next three quarters.
ATM card and $19 in the bank Mon Mar 23 07:36:41 2009 CDT #
Jackrabbit says:
Stocks going up is no surprise. In fact it makes perfect sense. Inflation raises all boats.
The truism "don't fight the Fed" comes to mind. The Fed has stated that it "will do whatever it takes" to save the economy and has essentially endorsed Timmay's loot-a-way plan.
The fix is in. "Investors" are virtually guaranteed HUGE returns. Their gains will not come from taxpayers, though. Those who pay for this will are anyone holding dollars.
Thus, the US solves its problem at a discount (since overseas dollar holders pay some part of OUR problem). But, I fear that monetizing our standing in the world (dollar as reserve currency) has a cost. (as with the Iraq war)
To those that ask about Congress: this plan has been designed to sidestep any congressional oversight/authorization. Again, because it is essentially based on dollar devaluation, not any NEW spending by Congress.
Jackrabbit Mon Mar 23 07:40:14 2009 CDT #
wally says:
It is Obama's decision... and apparently he has decided to govern in opposition to the people who elected him, rather than for them.
The tide against him is turning and, barring any major change by him, will soon become vocal and public. Too bad, but that's his choice, it seems.
wally Mon Mar 23 07:44:45 2009 CDT #
traderwalt says:
Lawyerliz,
Have you noticed and mispricing of residental real estate in Florida (like the examples CR posted over the weekend?_
traderwalt Mon Mar 23 07:46:36 2009 CDT #
mark says:
I've voted third party for a long time and everyone tells me I'm throwing away my vote, but it's times like these where I don't care if it was a wasted vote.
mark Mon Mar 23 07:57:36 2009 CDT #
Jim says:
Can anyone tell me what gives the FDIC the power to participate in this program? This doesn't seem to jive with their current role. Thanks
Jim Mon Mar 23 09:03:04 2009 CDT #
Werner says:
@ rent_to_own :
Excellent posts ! Thanks !
Werner Mon Mar 23 09:10:22 2009 CDT #
AnonyMiss says:
Tsk, tsk! Looks like somebody forgot to clear his cookies before doing a couple of drive-bys. Whatever happened to that vaunted German efficiency? Just a gentle ribbing, I enjoy reading most of your posts. : )
Werner says:Today, 7:10:23 AM“@ rent_to_own :
Excellent posts ! Thanks !
http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/
Anonymous says:Yesterday, 7:26:19 PM“"Toxic briefing" for the intoxicated credit junkies .
ROTFL.
http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/
Anonymous says:Yesterday, 7:20:04 PM“scone says:
The anonymous drive-by trolls are jealous! Score one for me.
Jealous ? Jealous ?
Ha, why should I be jealous ?
http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/
Anonymous says:Yesterday, 5:31:20 PM“scone says:
“Several trillion good reasons to get out of this country...
Hope you go to Afghanistan or Iraq !
http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/
Anonymous says:Yesterday, 4:56:09 PM“"Open the spigots, open the spigots, more credit, more credit." Yeahhaha. More credit is what America needs !
(Idiots!)
http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/
AnonyMiss Mon Mar 23 09:30:44 2009 CDT #
Dead_Monkey_Bounce says:
Actually, refinancing activity would speed resolution of many problems related to MBSes. The AAA rated tranches will be liquidated first as mortgages are paid off (through the refinancing process, the bundled mortgage gets paid off). The banks are probably not holding the lower rated "mezzanine" and "equity" tranches. Lower rates and availability of credit for the purpose of refinancing is indeed a solution to that problem.
Dead_Monkey_Bounce Mon Mar 23 09:37:04 2009 CDT #
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