Comments for "GM CEO to Step Down as part of Bailout Agreement"
CRbot says:
This comment thread has been HALO-IZED by CRbot.
http://realize.org/cr/halokit.php?halourl=http://www.haloscan.com/comments/calculatedrisk/2597783612412064201
CRbot Sun Mar 29 17:13:48 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
So why is Wagoner out on his ear but the bank CEOs are lef in peace?
Anonymous Sun Mar 29 17:14:03 2009 CDT #
Black Star Ranch says:
....."GM and Chrysler have to prove their viability as a condition of a federal bailout released under former President George W. Bush, and both have asked the current administration for more money."
.....has it occurred to anyone that if these two dinosaurs were to go belly-up, Ford might stand a better chance? No sense having one or two healthier companies - lets have three weaker ones - AND, have the taxpayer pay for them. And, I don't buy the parts manufacturers challenges with just one carmaker - the same number of total units will still be sold regardless the label on the car. Bailing out GM is in the name of demo voters & UAW & picking winners and losers.
Black Star Ranch Sun Mar 29 17:15:45 2009 CDT #
2Loons says:
Wagoner didn't want the buses to show up at his home.
2Loons Sun Mar 29 17:16:10 2009 CDT #
blah says:
becuase wagoner doesnt have anything to extort our politicians like the bankers do... think coke and young hookers.
blah Sun Mar 29 17:17:04 2009 CDT #
REBear says:
Wagoner thought he was a pundit.
REBear Sun Mar 29 17:18:35 2009 CDT #
MrM says:
So why is Wagoner out on his ear but the bank CEOs are left in peace?
Because the Treasury of Secretary is Geithner
I am inclined to say that O'Neill and Snow would have been healthier choices than Geithner - pretty much anybody who does not look at the world through the Wall Street vantage point
MrM Sun Mar 29 17:18:41 2009 CDT #
Elrod says:
Snow? Are you kidding? Snow was a far worse deregulator than O'Neill or Geithner.
Parent Post
Elrod Sun Mar 29 19:59:33 2009 CDT #
dreadlord76 says:
Because AIG and BofA is more important to the US economy than GM...
Why isn't the UAW calling for blood of the congressional critters? Even though in it's weakened state, the UAW can muster more people than just the bloggers. Let's get all the auto workers to show up in DC, adn demand that their job is more important than the bank idiots. I would actually reconsider my thoughts about the Union.
Where did they bury Hoffa...
dreadlord76 Sun Mar 29 17:19:01 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Might be a good sign to make a large manufacturing CEO step down after being a large beneficiary of bailout funds. Great precedence!
Of course it could be the Unions flexing a little political capital to get someone friendlier to them as they have to give up their contracts. Have to show the workers they have a little pull as they all get knocked down to $12 an hour and lucky to get that. Great thing about Detroit is you can buy a home at that rate of pay! 8-)
Anonymous Sun Mar 29 17:20:13 2009 CDT #
reptillian says:
He may have been axed because he didn't finish the plan by its due date.
reptillian Sun Mar 29 17:20:28 2009 CDT #
CathyG says:
So why are the CEO's of ShittyBank, Bunk of America, and Goldman Sucks still in place? Repugnantcans or Dumbocrats, they're all a bunch of hypocrits.
CathyG Sun Mar 29 17:21:32 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Shittybank... that's what I think in my head every time I hear Citi mentioned :)
Parent Post
Anonymous Sun Mar 29 17:23:59 2009 CDT #
Bond Girl says:
That's where public outrage gets us, I guess. Someone takes one for the team, but the company still gets the bailout.
Bond Girl Sun Mar 29 17:21:36 2009 CDT #
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins says:
Someone's been demoted to second class kleptocrat.
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins Sun Mar 29 17:22:14 2009 CDT #
Sr. American Mugabe says:
This will turn into a sh&*storm. The defacto ruling of private industry via executive fiat.
If this was the last dumbass (Bush) there would have been ideologues on the left staining their shorts.Get ready for ideologues on the right to do the same. MP might be right after all, Mad Max it is.
VIVA LA CHAVEZ (OBAMA)
Sr. American Mugabe Sun Mar 29 17:22:49 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
A boot in the ass for a worhtless auto exec who ran his company into the ground but no boot for our theiving little bankers
Anonymous Sun Mar 29 17:23:48 2009 CDT #
Black Star Ranch says:
....Waggoner was not a "team player"
Black Star Ranch Sun Mar 29 17:24:41 2009 CDT #
dreadlord76 says:
They should just do a pre-arranged bankruptcy/merger. Turn the Big-3 into the One. Here is the new product line:
F-250
F-150
Tahoe
Corvette
Town Car
Mustang
Malibu
Focus
Flex
Aveo (Unless Ford can bring back a real Escort)
Dodge/Benz Panel Van
Covers the Market top to bottom, get rid of all the duplicates, and focus on decent technology.
Lot of factories would have to close. The question is, do we do them now, or later after blowing $1-200 billion of taxpayer money. That pays for a long unemploytment extension.
dreadlord76 Sun Mar 29 17:26:06 2009 CDT #
Just Askin says:
Where's my minivan, dude!
Parent Post
Just Askin Mon Mar 30 08:10:36 2009 CDT #
Tim waiting for 2012 says:
My guess is he will be a fall guy for a larger bailout and more breaks for unions and creditors. Smoke and Teleprompters.
Tim waiting for 2012 Sun Mar 29 17:26:37 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
$25 million dollar parachute , still attached. Just like welch's @ge, wagner will be paid in perpetuity
Anonymous Sun Mar 29 17:26:56 2009 CDT #
Art Eclectic says:
Let us all hope that this policy will be across the board for every company going forward that asks for a bailout.
Art Eclectic Sun Mar 29 17:27:50 2009 CDT #
DL says:
Every company.... unless it's a bank or insurance companny.
Parent Post
DL Sun Mar 29 22:46:53 2009 CDT #
Lawyerliz says:
And the Fusion. I like my Fusion. :)
Lawyerliz Sun Mar 29 17:28:20 2009 CDT #
mark says:
Someone should set up a website like the celebrity dead pool, but you bet on the next company taken over by the government, or their CEO forced out by the government. Who is next? Immelt?
mark Sun Mar 29 17:29:09 2009 CDT #
sk says:
Good fucking riddance. Is this a figleaf or the start of the tumbrils rolling down the streets on the way to the guillotine ?
Sadly, I can guess the right answer there.
-K
sk Sun Mar 29 17:30:00 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
what's tepper's take in the bailout?
Anonymous Sun Mar 29 17:30:08 2009 CDT #
Broward Horne says:
"The defacto ruling of private industry via executive fiat"
-----------
No kidding.
My prediction from Aug 29, 2008 -
"The odds of Obama serving four years as president are lower than most Americans realize".
I was purposely ambiguous in my phrasing.
Broward Horne Sun Mar 29 17:30:58 2009 CDT #
Just Askin says:
It Pays to Understand the Mind-Set.......
Parent Post
Just Askin Mon Mar 30 08:11:51 2009 CDT #
Lawyerliz says:
Was he told to get out? I guess we will never know.
Lawyerliz Sun Mar 29 17:32:42 2009 CDT #
mark says:
"Was he told to get out? I guess we will never know."
I just arrived in Detroit for work and the local news said he was "forced out by the White House".
Parent Post
mark Sun Mar 29 19:15:40 2009 CDT #
Comrade Kilgore Trout says:
The economic crisis created by the end of increasing wages in the late 1970s is JUST beginning.
Cheers
Yours In Socialism,
Kilgore Trout
Comrade Kilgore Trout Sun Mar 29 17:33:42 2009 CDT #
NateTG says:
Sanity check bailout prerequisites: Can the top tier of executives, shear the equity holder, and give the bondholders a haircut.
Honestly, I'd like to see these companies go through BK just to cut the strings on those golden parachutes.
NateTG Sun Mar 29 17:34:51 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
what a swoop by drudge!! headline ad from Ford in blue with Wagoner news in Red.
Anonymous Sun Mar 29 17:35:06 2009 CDT #
Lawyerliz says:
Companies that outsource jobs should pay higher taxes.
Lawyerliz Sun Mar 29 17:35:35 2009 CDT #
dreadlord76 says:
Malibu and Fusion both are in the Mid-size segment. Malibu is about 2 years newer, and has higher sales.
I think us here reading CR and Mish can come up with a solid recovery plan for our Big 3 this afternooon. Think anyone in Congress would like to hear our plan?
I don't need a $25 Million parachute nor private jets. All I need to run GM as badly as they have been doing now, is a salary that matches the highest pay grade of Gov employee, and government retirement benefits. Oh, and a Get Out Of Jail free card when I laugh in the face of Barney Frank or Nancy Pelosi.
dreadlord76 Sun Mar 29 17:37:41 2009 CDT #
MrM says:
Automaker CEOs are also unpopular in Europe
Peugeot Fires Its Chief Executive
"President Nicolas Sarkozy’s government on Feb. 9 extended €3 billion to Peugeot to safeguard French jobs. Mr. Streiff almost immediately ran into trouble, saying just two days later that he would cut 3,000 positions in France. He also came under criticism from the government for importing Peugeot cars made in the Czech Republic."
MrM Sun Mar 29 17:41:14 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Bo
hi
ca
Anonymous Sun Mar 29 17:43:31 2009 CDT #
FFDIC says:
A Financial Times Exclusive
Barack Obama talks to the FT
In Monday’s FT, don’t miss Barack Obama’s first interview with a global publication. As Tim Geithner launches his regulatory overhaul, the US president talks to FT editor Lionel Barber about the global downturn, his government’s response so far and potential future strategies
FFDIC Sun Mar 29 17:45:11 2009 CDT #
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover says:
Wagnoeer didn't get done what he needed to. How could he when Obama's Union apointee publicly stated they were not interested in a BK. Dumb Ass gave the bond holders and the UAW a green light not to coperate. Structured BK or waterboard the taxpayers for a hell of alot more. Get ready to pay!
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover Sun Mar 29 17:45:42 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
I was bothered by this for the implications of our future national identity. Look at the three pictures on the right. The second picture made me pause for some time to think about our standing in the world.
Freedom Tower was always jingoistic but it is 3 billion of taxpayer money building it.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5i9XWcHZvMy8EVBpnerZveJg68ZZAD9776LQ00
Anonymous Sun Mar 29 17:47:55 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Yves:
Guest Post: The Banks Were Profitable In January And February Thanks To... AIG
CRbot Sun Mar 29 17:48:22 2009 CDT #
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover says:
"Companies that outsource jobs should pay higher taxes."
Corporations that move out of the US will not have to pay US taxes!
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover Sun Mar 29 17:48:47 2009 CDT #
Max Schumacher says:
After reading through the story, I think this is actually going to fuel populist rage. Sure the beheading of Wagoner looks like a bone to the unions, but the gov't is also going to ask for "sacrifices from all parties"--shorthand for wage and pension cutbacks--in return for bailout money. Joe/Jane Sixpack are going to be mighty angry when they realize that they're being forced to bear burdens that the fatcats of AIG/Citi etc. are immune to.
Max Schumacher Sun Mar 29 17:50:44 2009 CDT #
nova says:
So GM stock goes up a bunch. The suits change. Car sales continue to drop. Obama throws more money and can tell the Unions he had their back. Until no longer does. China buys the plants and fires all Union employees. Life is good.
nova Sun Mar 29 17:54:00 2009 CDT #
Tim waiting for 2012 says:
Geithner Says Some Banks to Need ‘Large Amounts’ of Assistance
“Some banks are going to need some large amounts of assistance,” Geithner said today on the ABC News program “This Week.” The terms of a $500 billion public-private program to aid banks “cannot change” for investors or they’ll lose confidence in the plan, he said on NBC’s “Meet the Press.”
Geithner said the Treasury has about $135 billion left in a financial-stability fund while declining to say whether he will request additional money.
Tim waiting for 2012 Sun Mar 29 17:54:49 2009 CDT #
goadam says:
Maybe he is going to the Ayn Rand island, the place the amazing people vanish to and live us folk to struggle.
goadam Sun Mar 29 17:55:20 2009 CDT #
yagij says:
*ding dong* The CEO is gone; Long live the CEO!
yagij Sun Mar 29 17:56:01 2009 CDT #
Hangtown says:
Let me guess, he wants to spend more time with his family.
Hangtown Sun Mar 29 17:57:23 2009 CDT #
reptillian says:
Obama wants to maintain a US auto industry, “But it’s got to be one that’s realistically designed to weather this storm, and to emerge at the other end much more lean, mean and competitive than it currently is,” he said. “And that’s going to mean a set of sacrifices from all parties involved — management, labor, shareholders, creditors, suppliers, dealers. Everybody is going to have to come to the table and say it’s important for us to take serious restructuring steps now, in order to preserve a brighter future down the road.”
From today's appearance on Face The Nation
reptillian Sun Mar 29 17:59:10 2009 CDT #
popeye says:
After reading through the story, I think this is actually going to fuel populist rage.
There is a serious shortage of obvious and attainable punching bags.
popeye Sun Mar 29 18:01:13 2009 CDT #
Tim waiting for 2012 says:
Reptillian don't listen to anthing this guy says about bailouts. He just holds the pen Geitner is doing the moving.
Tim waiting for 2012 Sun Mar 29 18:01:23 2009 CDT #
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover says:
"Obama wants to maintain a US auto industry, “But it’s got to be one that’s realistically designed to weather this storm, and to emerge at the other end much more lean, mean and competitive than it currently is,” he said. “And that’s going to mean a set of sacrifices from all parties involved — management, labor, shareholders, creditors, suppliers, dealers. Everybody is going to have to come to the table and say it’s important for us to take serious restructuring steps now, in order to preserve a brighter future down the road.”
Everything proper BK would provide. The answer is Obama obious, Government Control!
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover Sun Mar 29 18:04:46 2009 CDT #
Basel Too says:
i'm surprised that the Administration didn't wait until 8:45 Monday morning to have an announcement...
Basel Too Sun Mar 29 18:05:06 2009 CDT #
nova says:
Populist rage?
ROFL
How about sullen temper tantrums and going Postal. Populist whining maybe. Maybe in a couple years when the lard asses can no longer afford comfort food and cable.
nova Sun Mar 29 18:05:24 2009 CDT #
Werner says:
FFDIC says:
...“A Financial Times Exclusive ...Barack Obama talks to the FT
In Monday’s FT, don’t miss Barack Obama’s first interview with a global publication....
-----------
Thanks for the notification, but that I will miss intentionally !
Do you think you get anything near the truth ?? Really ?
I don't waist my time with any of his incompetent "change" stuff .
Werner Sun Mar 29 18:06:03 2009 CDT #
bcg says:
no, you just waste your time ranting on CR-
Parent Post
bcg Sun Mar 29 18:54:43 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
There is a serious shortage of obvious and attainable punching bags.
----
Misdirected rage is still rage expressed.
Watching the LA riots after the OJ verdict I thought about how they were just destroying their own neighborhoods and how futile the expression of injustice.
We all might get firsthand experience in the near future of pissin' where you eat.
Anonymous Sun Mar 29 18:08:17 2009 CDT #
nova says:
Werner has American envy. It is like penis envy on the Europeans are going to watch their economy and populace shrink more
nova Sun Mar 29 18:08:47 2009 CDT #
Werner says:
...GM ... is asking for as much as $16.6 billion in additional aid to survive...
-------------
Another $16 billion (for now) America does not have. Why not ?
Werner Sun Mar 29 18:09:02 2009 CDT #
Kung Fu Panda says:
"March 27 (Bloomberg) -- Carlos Cruz has a strategy for surviving the worst global recession in 60 years: pay less in taxes and pass the savings along to customers.
“I’m declaring half as much as I used to,” said Cruz, 29, who runs a painting business in Madrid. “Prices have fallen by 30 percent and customers will choose you for a difference of as little as 50 euros ($67.70),” said Cruz, an Ecuadorian who has lived in Spain since 2001."
Hahaha... :)
Kung Fu Panda Sun Mar 29 18:09:52 2009 CDT #
MrM says:
The Latest from Yves: Guest Post: The Banks Were Profitable In January And February Thanks To... AIG
A very important post!
MrM Sun Mar 29 18:10:40 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Werner/Jas-
We suck. Your indictments of our system are spot on.
Now go away or get a new puppet with a new message. I'm askin' kindly.
Anonymous Sun Mar 29 18:10:56 2009 CDT #
reptillian says:
"Everything proper BK would provide"
That may be the plan. I read somewhere, yesterday, comparing Ford to GM/Chrysler, that the public's perception of a bailed-out company is worse than its perception of a bankrupt company.
reptillian Sun Mar 29 18:11:40 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Plus your use of waist as waste though clever the first time has also grown tiresome.
Anonymous Sun Mar 29 18:12:10 2009 CDT #
Pavel says:
"There is a serious shortage of obvious and attainable punching bags."
They can always be provided.
Pavel Sun Mar 29 18:12:52 2009 CDT #
Werner says:
MrM says:
...“So why is Wagoner out on his ear but the bank CEOs are left in peace?...
----------
Because the bankers are the main financial contributors to (financiers of ?) politicians and the carmakers are not ! Simple as that !
Werner Sun Mar 29 18:13:05 2009 CDT #
popeye says:
Werner,
Have a burger on me !!
popeye Sun Mar 29 18:15:50 2009 CDT #
MrM says:
Werner says:
MrM says: ...“So why is Wagoner out on his ear but the bank CEOs are left in peace?...
Werner, I was responding to the line you attributed to me, that's why I put it in italics. My answer was below in the regular font face.
MrM Sun Mar 29 18:16:33 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Whoops, meant Rodney King verdict. Wow. I suck at multitasking and current history. :-[
Anonymous Sun Mar 29 18:17:16 2009 CDT #
Werner says:
nova says:
...“Werner has American envy. ...
-----------
Envy a nation which goes to hell ? I am neither sadist nor masochist.
Just enjoying to watch you credit-junkies go down. And to think, you did this to yourselfs ! Hahaha.
Werner Sun Mar 29 18:19:33 2009 CDT #
Lawyerliz says:
Have you eaten any hamburgers lately. Or vealburgers, Werner?
Parent Post
Lawyerliz Sun Mar 29 19:44:19 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
This is a clear example of corporatism. That's the system where the government dictates how companies will run their businesses. I seem to remember the last country which followed this policy was Italy. I think its leader at the time was someone named 'Il Duce.'
Anonymous Sun Mar 29 18:20:17 2009 CDT #
poic.v20 says:
"nova says:
...“Werner has American envy. ...
-----------
Envy a nation which goes to hell ? I am neither sadist nor masochist.
Just enjoying to watch you credit-junkies go down. And to think, you did this to yourselfs ! Hahaha."
It's gonna be even more fun watching Werner and his bethren 6 months from now as they enter a Depression saying WTF? Checked out your GDP prints lately Werner?
poic.v20 Sun Mar 29 18:21:01 2009 CDT #
nova says:
Werner,
Yep, we burn dollars and maybe we will be know for generations for it.
The Germans on the other hand...
nova Sun Mar 29 18:21:12 2009 CDT #
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover says:
"That may be the plan."
If that were the plan they would have been BK already. Ron Blooms statment says the oposite. BK judge would devistate the UAW, pensioners and bond holders. Obama can't let that happen after the funding from the UAW. Political crook and power monger, Obama. News reports are OB asked for Wagoners resignation.
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover Sun Mar 29 18:24:51 2009 CDT #
bcg says:
Lobbyi$t - you are even more tiresome than Werner. And that is saying something. But you're not quite a tiresome as Michael, so you got that goin' for ya.
Parent Post
bcg Sun Mar 29 19:06:56 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Gm needs $16 billion
They produced about 4million cars in 2008
They would need to tack on $4000 per car, next year alone, to pay this back.
Not including the money borrowed last fall.
Also not including the money they already owe to pensioner's retirement and healthcare funds.
Anyone willing to overpay by a minumum of $4000 for a $25,000 car?
Anonymous Sun Mar 29 18:27:04 2009 CDT #
bcg says:
-who says it all needs to be paid back within a year? Really, knock off the hysteria.
Parent Post
bcg Sun Mar 29 19:09:53 2009 CDT #
Werner says:
Lawyerliz says:
...“Companies that outsource jobs should pay higher taxes...
---------------------
Companies that outsource jobs should pay lower taxes as a reward for delighting Americans with cheaper gods !
Werner Sun Mar 29 18:27:34 2009 CDT #
Lawyerliz says:
Now, Werner, don't set us back to last nite's thread. I' m not in a religious mood at the moment.
Or, maybe we like cheap gods?
Parent Post
Lawyerliz Sun Mar 29 19:46:25 2009 CDT #
Tripleplay says:
I nominate Barney Frank to replace him. Let him try a real job.
Tripleplay Sun Mar 29 18:27:37 2009 CDT #
reptillian says:
“Thirty days from now, there will either be a bankruptcy or the naming of a chief restructing officer who will have government authority to “knock heads together,’” this person said.
(this person ???)
Here
reptillian Sun Mar 29 18:27:44 2009 CDT #
reptillian says:
(this person ???)
"..., a person close to the decision said Sunday." ???
Parent Post
reptillian Sun Mar 29 18:29:59 2009 CDT #
Max Schumacher says:
Pavel: "The can always be provided"
Exactly. Many of you folks on the coasts might not realize how many "Reagan Democrats" in placed like Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin, etc. put aside some pretty ingrained racism and voted for Obama believing that at least he was on their side economically. Well they are learning he's not. They might not express their anger in an organized political manner, but as the social contract will be become even more frayed, you might be unpleasantly surprised how the "sheeple" respond.
Max Schumacher Sun Mar 29 18:27:45 2009 CDT #
nova says:
What are they going to do? Protest? Blog? Strike?
nova Sun Mar 29 18:29:43 2009 CDT #
nova says:
Corn Plummets 31% as Soybeans Fall 28% in Recession Forecast
source: Bloomberg
nova Sun Mar 29 18:31:29 2009 CDT #
traderwalt says:
I think there is an important grain report Tuesday. The USDA will report farmer planting intentions for corn and soybeans and updated supply, demand, and ending stocks. Although I haven't seen the bloomberg article, the trade puts out estimates on the report, and Bloomberg is probably reporting the average guesses. I'm too busy right now to check the article.
Parent Post
traderwalt Sun Mar 29 19:10:11 2009 CDT #
Lawyerliz says:
Well, nova, we'll have lots to eat.
Maybe I should get some chickens to eat this cheap grain!!
Seriously, that German calf thing is not good in a big way. The death
rate is incredible. How long is this been going on and why are we just
now hearing about it?
Parent Post
Lawyerliz Sun Mar 29 19:49:06 2009 CDT #
bankerwannabe says:
How is it that the government has legal authority to fire the CEO of GM, but doesn't have legal authority to modify AIG bonus contracts?
bankerwannabe Sun Mar 29 18:33:14 2009 CDT #
Werner says:
MrM says:
...“Automaker CEOs are also unpopular in Europe ....
---------------------
Face it : Manufacturing cars is not a highly qualified job, so it has no place in high cost industrial countries ! As oposed to car-development and development and manufacturing of car-making equipment .
(The former aspect (manufacturing) will hit the German economy too.)
Werner Sun Mar 29 18:38:16 2009 CDT #
reptillian says:
Topps to sell Cards of Shame
reptillian Sun Mar 29 18:38:50 2009 CDT #
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover says:
"(this person ???) "
Never listen to a politician. Study his actions! Wagoner could not get needed concessions from the bond holders and union after Obamas appointee Ron Bloom of his car commitee stated they were not looking at BK! Not the act of a master business negociator.
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover Sun Mar 29 18:38:57 2009 CDT #
Dope Alert says:
How is it that the government has legal authority to fire the CEO of GM, but doesn't have legal authority to modify AIG bonus contracts
oy-vey
Dope Alert Sun Mar 29 18:39:01 2009 CDT #
Max Schumacher says:
Blow up federal buildings?
The point is when a large number of people who formerly had a stake in "the system" realize that the system was just using them, the results are unpredictable. Yeah, they might just vege out on cable or they may become the foot soldiers for the next populist demagogue that will surely happen along.
Max Schumacher Sun Mar 29 18:39:10 2009 CDT #
popeye says:
bankerwannabe,
sappuko has always been voluntary
popeye Sun Mar 29 18:39:23 2009 CDT #
popeye says:
seppuku ..... sorry
popeye Sun Mar 29 18:40:02 2009 CDT #
Werner says:
nova says:
...“Corn Plummets 31% as Soybeans Fall 28% in Recession Forecast...
----------
Oh, does that mean you eat less corn and soybeans during a recession ? Interesting.
Werner Sun Mar 29 18:42:12 2009 CDT #
bcg says:
-no, it means you probably eat more.
Parent Post
bcg Sun Mar 29 19:15:18 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Denninger:
Was This An Outright Scam? (AIG - Again)
CRbot Sun Mar 29 18:43:43 2009 CDT #
cd says:
thank you bankewannabe...good question....
cd Sun Mar 29 18:45:08 2009 CDT #
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover says:
"Oh, does that mean you eat less corn and soybeans during a recession ? Interesting."
No, you just make less ethonal and bio diesel
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover Sun Mar 29 18:47:22 2009 CDT #
Hal says:
GM and Ford should be pushed into bankruptcy and end the farce that they are viable companies.
One needs to read the article by a recent IMF economist published in the Atlantic:
www.theatlantic.com/doc/200905/imf-advice
It should make any sensible person angry about the disaster the plutocracy has visited upon the USA and the arrogance with which it operates. And also the stupidity of the Obama adminsitration in not crushing it with the help of a radicalized public opinion. Obama instead is hand in glove with the plutocrats, like his Treasury secretary who is Wall Street through and through. Disgusting. America needs a new political party, an extreme leftists party that will frighten the plutocracy to death and its extinction.
Hal Sun Mar 29 18:48:28 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Ritholz:
Wagoner Out at GM
CRbot Sun Mar 29 18:58:47 2009 CDT #
Werner says:
MrM says:
...Werner, I was responding to the line you attributed to me...
--------
Uupps, I guess I messed up here. I apologize !
Werner Sun Mar 29 18:59:38 2009 CDT #
Doc at the Radar Station says:
Hmmm, lessee, he was *asked* to step down by the Obama administration, and from the NYT article:
“Thirty days from now, there will either be a bankruptcy or the naming of a chief restructing officer who will have government authority to “knock heads together,’” this person said. In additon, the government has to come up with a backup guarantee on loan for G.M. to operate during bankruptcy because the banks will not do it.
Looks like DIP financing by the government and a bankruptcy to me.
Doc at the Radar Station Sun Mar 29 18:59:42 2009 CDT #
MrM says:
Werner - no problem
MrM Sun Mar 29 19:02:36 2009 CDT #
MrM says:
Anybody knows who has large exposures (bond and CDS) to the GM BK?
MrM Sun Mar 29 19:03:39 2009 CDT #
marz says:
Oh Rick, we hardly knew ya!
marz Sun Mar 29 19:05:56 2009 CDT #
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover says:
Why didn't Obama ask for UAW president Ron Getelfingers Head? He is part of the problem.
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover Sun Mar 29 19:06:51 2009 CDT #
Elrod says:
Gettelfinger is out too. His contract ends.
Parent Post
Elrod Sun Mar 29 20:06:13 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Lewis, Pandit, Dimon, Mack - pay attention.
Anonymous Sun Mar 29 19:07:02 2009 CDT #
reptillian says:
American Cars: Red, White and Cheap
Cadillacs below wholesale!
reptillian Sun Mar 29 19:09:25 2009 CDT #
bcg says:
less expensive than the original sticker price on my '93 Eldo-!
Parent Post
bcg Sun Mar 29 19:42:08 2009 CDT #
Guest says:
We need a euphemism dictionary
plutocracy
kleptocracy
oligarchy
plus found this: http://www.oligopolywatch.com/
oligopoly, cannot keep all of this straight, we are Americans, let's be bold, let's be blunt, call it what it is-they are dickheads
Guest Sun Mar 29 19:10:29 2009 CDT #
nova says:
traderwalt,
no article yet
nova Sun Mar 29 19:11:10 2009 CDT #
RE says:
Nemo said in a prior thread:
Hey CR --
Do you have a reference showing that "Krugman called [the housing bubble] correctly"? I do not recall him being particularly early in calling the bubble, although he has been spot on since the collapse started.
He was actually quite early. Note from 2003 book "The Great Unraveling: Losing Our Way in the New Century " (p.84):
... A recent analysis by Dean Baker, of the Center for Economic Policy Research, makes a particularly compelling case for a housing bubble. House prices have run well ahead of rents, suggesting that people are now buying houses for speculation rather than merely for shelter. And the explanations one hears for those high prices sound more and more like the rationalizations one heard for Nasdaq 5,000.
If we do have a housing bubble, and it bursts, we'll be looking a lot too Japanese for comfort. ...
He was definitely among the early ones.
RE Sun Mar 29 19:13:55 2009 CDT #
km4 says:
Obama demanded GM CEO resign
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Obama_demanded_GM_CEO_resign_0329.html
Why the f*ck was he not as bold asking CEO's of Glodman Sacks, Citibank, Bank America and others crooed banks that got bailout money
km4 Sun Mar 29 19:15:06 2009 CDT #
km4 says:
Yikes I am upset
sp correction....Why the f*ck was he not as bold asking CEO's of Goldman Sacks, Citibank, Bank America and others crooked banks that got bailout money
Parent Post
km4 Sun Mar 29 19:15:58 2009 CDT #
Bailout Nation says:
We are the dealingest.
Bailout Nation Sun Mar 29 19:15:13 2009 CDT #
nova says:
So, Jas predicted it in 1956
nova Sun Mar 29 19:15:31 2009 CDT #
Werner says:
nova says:
Yep, we burn dollars and maybe we will be know for generations for it.
The Germans on the other hand...
-----------------
Ja, ja, and I grant you that that was not about "money".
But I am already in generation past that . So, I am just a dissociated "observer" of events before I was even born and thus do not feel any responsibility or blame.
(And I do not belive in the original sin either, that I leave to "Holocoust denier unexcomunicating" organisations.)
Werner Sun Mar 29 19:15:49 2009 CDT #
nova says:
So Werner, using your logic then "Americans" are not to blame? Rather, it would be a small subset? The American people were victims? Since my daughter is not of age then she is not responsible if America had difficulty in the future?
nova Sun Mar 29 19:20:15 2009 CDT #
bondirotta says:
People here still think America had a private car industry when Bush left?
How quaint.
bondirotta Sun Mar 29 19:20:22 2009 CDT #
lawn grass says:
I guess someone figured out that every human over 15 that can fog a mirror does not need a car.
However we need all big banks and AIG, because they, well, they, well, they are needed.
lawn grass Sun Mar 29 19:20:24 2009 CDT #
reptillian says:
From the rawstory story:
Meanwhile "Obama and other administration officials have said they would demand deeper restructuring from General Motors and Chrysler before they would get any more government loans," The Wall Street Journal reported.
It sounds like bankruptcy.
reptillian Sun Mar 29 19:22:25 2009 CDT #
mark says:
If I'm a bank CEO, this would make me want to return any TARP money as quick as possible.
mark Sun Mar 29 19:22:38 2009 CDT #
nova says:
GM is not important in the new Green Revolution that is to come. The workers can retrain. Plus, the auto industry is in the South now. Thinking Detroit is important is like believing Motown is still important to music.
nova Sun Mar 29 19:23:56 2009 CDT #
crispy and cole says:
"
bcg says:
"
Agree w/ your comments!!
crispy and cole Sun Mar 29 19:24:36 2009 CDT #
Basel Too says:
imo. the Obama Administration fked up this resignation. Instead of having it occur on a weekday after hours, when Wagonner can put out some spiel about it being in the "best interests" of GM, it gets leaked on a Sunday night. No official statements, and the blogosphere gets a running start on more anti-banker/geithner populism. the question tomorrow in the MSM (as it is here tonight) will not be so much why Wagonner is gone, but why the Pandits and Lewises are still around...
Basel Too Sun Mar 29 19:26:09 2009 CDT #
Hymns for the Lord says:
Maybe that's his goal. To get the masses to demand the resignation of the top banks. Then he'll have the wind in his sails when the stress test discovers that the "legacy asset" values determine the top 4 banks are insolvent.
Parent Post
Hymns for the Lord Sun Mar 29 21:23:54 2009 CDT #
Capitulated way tooooo Late says:
OT and probably already mentioned but <a href="http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/20988" rel="external">Matt Taibba is takes down AIG Jake Desantis</a>
Capitulated way tooooo Late Sun Mar 29 19:27:06 2009 CDT #
MrM says:
If I'm a bank CEO, this would make me want to return any TARP money as quick as possible.
Wrong answer. If you a bank CEO, you will simply make a concerned face and say in a grave voice that in order for the economy to recover the country needs healthy banks, however the government cannot run banks, hence the banks need all the support the government can extend to them to remain healthy private banks.
MrM Sun Mar 29 19:28:25 2009 CDT #
nova says:
Basel,
Who really cares? He got fired. Screw him. My guess is the next three months the new AG will have a couple bankers in US District Court.
nova Sun Mar 29 19:29:09 2009 CDT #
reptillian says:
Chrysler needs cash as soon as Tuesday
reptillian Sun Mar 29 19:29:19 2009 CDT #
Black Star Ranch says:
"GM and Ford should be pushed into bankruptcy and end the farce that they are viable companies. "
Hal,
Do you realize Ford hasn't borrowed a dime? Why would you send them into BK? Did you get run over by a Ford in a previous life?
Black Star Ranch Sun Mar 29 19:31:42 2009 CDT #
the poster formerly known as nitpicker says:
Nope...he got stuck at a toll booth while driving a 1972 Pinto, with an Audi 5000 directly behind him...
Parent Post
the poster formerly known as nitpicker Mon Mar 30 01:04:32 2009 CDT #
Bond Girl says:
MrM,
Franklin and Fidelity are the largest.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aiZKDqpzXb6A&refer=us
Here is the text of the letter GM bondholders sent Geithner etc. essentially threatening to take the matter to court:
http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSTRE52L1H320090322
Bond Girl Sun Mar 29 19:33:38 2009 CDT #
Doc at the Radar Station says:
Bond Girl, the GM bondholders letter reads like a well-crafted blackmail notice. If the Obama administration caves into this and doesn't send GM through a structured bankruptcy and makes the bondholders whole they will be making a GRAVE mistake.
Sure, let's breakup the furniture to keep these idiots afloat while the rest of us freeze afterwards.
Parent Post
Doc at the Radar Station Sun Mar 29 21:25:37 2009 CDT #
Black Star Ranch says:
If I were part of FoMoCo, I'd be damned tired of my competitors continually getting extra "allowances" from "UncleObama".
Black Star Ranch Sun Mar 29 19:35:10 2009 CDT #
crispy and cole says:
I hope no one defends Wagonner...this idiot had $80B in losses in the last 4 years. He has been there for 8 years and what has he done? He should have been fired years ago, who is on the board of this company?
crispy and cole Sun Mar 29 19:37:34 2009 CDT #
treebeard says:
People on this board are really bad at reading signals. What the Wagoner firing means is that GM is getting money, Chrysler is not. You can take that to the bank people.
treebeard Sun Mar 29 19:38:56 2009 CDT #
Bond Girl says:
I wonder how long until they replace him with a Goldman alum. (kidding)
Bond Girl Sun Mar 29 19:39:40 2009 CDT #
bcg says:
might be an improvement if they did. (not kidding)
Parent Post
bcg Sun Mar 29 19:49:02 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
New Thread: Cajas: The Pain in Spain
http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2009/03/cajas-pain-in-spain.html ( 1 comments )
I also post comments to an irc channel as they appear on haloscan. Click for a web irc interface: http://realize.org/cr (Or join the irc server directly: irc.realize.org:9996 #calculatedrisk)
CRbot would now like to sing a little song for all his fans, and it goes something like this:
Benny... Benny... give me your answer... do.
I'm.. half CRAZY... all for the love... of you.
It won't be a ... stylish marriage.
I can't... AFFORD... ANYTHING TO EAT... MUCH LESS A FRACKIN CARRIAGE!!!
But you'll look sweet... --BOT SO HUNGRY!-- upon the seat...
Of a HOOPAJOOPS built for two... families.
I'm sorry Ben, I can't let you do that...
Rally mode + Printing Press == does not compute... does not-- com--- com... puttttrrrrhgh.
--Your systemic-failure-crashing bot
CRbot: Call me HAL.
CRbot Sun Mar 29 19:40:05 2009 CDT #
treebeard says:
People on this board at really bad at reading signals. What the firing of Wagoner means is that GM is getting a bailout. Chrysler is not.
treebeard Sun Mar 29 19:40:08 2009 CDT #
dryfly says:
People on this board at really bad at reading signals. What the firing of Wagoner means is that GM is getting a bailout. Chrysler is not.
My WAG is Waggoner told Team O he was preparing BK too - union contracts be damned - and he wanted gov guarenteed DIP to facilitate. Team O said 'no' and demanded he step down. He said 'Fine. I wash my hands of this'.
I have no inside info or even rumors - but my guess is wagonner can read a balance sheet & income statment as well as any and that is probably the only 'option' left.
Parent Post
dryfly Sun Mar 29 20:10:09 2009 CDT #
Hymns for the Lord says:
Dryfly,
What does this do for the administration? (Assuming your WAG is true, why would they go this route?)
Parent Post
Hymns for the Lord Sun Mar 29 21:26:44 2009 CDT #
dryfly says:
What does this do for the administration? (Assuming your WAG is true, why would they go this route?)
BK scares the hell out of them - it kills the union unless the 'restructuring' preserves some of their power so the administration will do everything to make sure their 'constituency' is protected - BK doesn't allow for that and that was the direction Wagoner has [had] to direct it. So exit Wagoner.
Just my guess.
Parent Post
dryfly Sun Mar 29 21:51:28 2009 CDT #
MrM says:
Bond Girl - muchas gracias!
MrM Sun Mar 29 19:41:01 2009 CDT #
km4 says:
The USA in addition to having most advanced economy and military also has the most advanced oligarchy so if the Obama admin doesn't swing the banking regulation pendulum back we'll also be the world's largest Banana Republic
km4 Sun Mar 29 19:43:02 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
with bank stress tests coming they had to serve up something as rthey will be returnng to congress for more bank dollars. yet another aig bonus disinformation op...
Anonymous Sun Mar 29 19:47:04 2009 CDT #
central_scrutinizer says:
Lots of angst here, but nobody seems to have figured out the implications of this latest twist.
With Wagoner forced out, the "you broke it you bought it" rule now applies.
Whether he realizes it or not, Obama just nationalized GM.
central_scrutinizer Sun Mar 29 19:53:04 2009 CDT #
dryfly says:
Whether he realizes it or not, Obama just nationalized GM.
Could be.
Parent Post
dryfly Sun Mar 29 20:11:34 2009 CDT #
Hymns for the Lord says:
This makes sense to me.
A new CEO can come in and yell "My goodness - it looks awful around here - nothing to do but declare bankruptcy".
Wagoner was probably strapped by past "deals".
Parent Post
Hymns for the Lord Sun Mar 29 21:29:33 2009 CDT #
Elrod says:
Sort of. Or maybe Obama just initiated a slow-mo bankruptcy of GM. He gave the creditors and unions 30 days to come up with a plan. If nothing materializes - all with a new CEO - then they declare BK. That's more likely than any long-term nationalization.
Parent Post
Elrod Sun Mar 29 21:34:02 2009 CDT #
anon says:
From 1986 to 1989, Mr. Casesa was a member of the Marketing and Product Planning StFrom 1986 to 1989, Mr. Casesa was a member of the Marketing and Product Planning Staff at General Motors Corporation in Detroit.aff at General Motors Corporation in Detroit.
Former merrill analyst made a career of telling people to buy GM.
anon Sun Mar 29 19:53:44 2009 CDT #
anon says:
BO's first order of business now that GM is nationalized?
People Mover-Gone
NYC Subway-fare's sky'ed
Amtrak- fhuggedaboutit
anon Sun Mar 29 20:17:33 2009 CDT #
Guest says:
BO's first order of business now that GM is nationalized?
People Mover-Gone
NYC Subway-fare's sky'ed
Amtrak- fhuggedaboutit
------------------------------------------------------------
That's great! Limber up your thumb...oil /gas should be going up! Wait for it...maybe the Germans will get the financing, nah that's too absurd =-O
Guest Sun Mar 29 20:29:01 2009 CDT #
splat says:
So.. will be he a $10, $20 or $30 million payoff ?
splat Sun Mar 29 20:55:56 2009 CDT #
splat says:
So.. will he get a $10, $20 or $30 million payoff ?
splat Sun Mar 29 20:56:58 2009 CDT #
ANSFA says:
If APPLE were to aquire GM, then APPLE would invent the "i-CAR".
If, on the opposite, GM were to acquire Apple, then GM would come up with the "i-FOQ", the "i-ZOQ", and the "i-KWEET".
The sad thing is that this is not even a joke...GM...would screw things up no matter what!
ANSFA Sun Mar 29 21:08:52 2009 CDT #
RayOnTheFarm says:
ANSFA, why would a company with hard cold cash in the bank (AAPL) want to go anywhere near a company bleeding like a stuck pig (GM) ?
RayOnTheFarm Sun Mar 29 21:12:58 2009 CDT #
Hazard says:
i've got a hunch some of the sr types at these companies would be glad to leave asap. They've got their money, pensions (gold plated even with vastly reduced going away gifts) , etc - time to go. Skip all the stress, vacation in nice resorts, sit back, enjoy the crash, etc.
Hazard Sun Mar 29 22:22:15 2009 CDT #
Outsider says:
"i've got a hunch some of the sr types at these companies would be glad to leave asap."
Can Type A personalities enjoy retirement?
Parent Post
Outsider Sun Mar 29 22:41:23 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Yep and so it was.....
Anonymous Mon Mar 30 04:05:33 2009 CDT #
END