Comments for "Geithner to Propose Regulatory Reform"
Rent2 Moan says:
No way...first for the first time
Rent2 Moan Wed Mar 25 22:53:42 2009 CDT #
Nemo says:
They are all going to receive bail-out money anyway, so I guess this makes sense.
Nemo Wed Mar 25 22:53:45 2009 CDT #
lawn grass says:
http://macromouse.blogspot.com/2003/09/derivatives-bubble.html
lawn grass Wed Mar 25 22:54:39 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
This comment thread has been HALO-IZED by CRbot.
http://realize.org/cr/halokit.php?halourl=http://www.haloscan.com/comments/calculatedrisk/5789523178555371553
CRbot Wed Mar 25 22:55:59 2009 CDT #
Jillayne Schlicke says:
Just what we need; another federal regulator.
Jillayne Schlicke Wed Mar 25 22:56:10 2009 CDT #
Rent2 Moan says:
Wait...did I read we need additional Federal Agencies?
Oh wait, no just more power to manipulate the markets...
Sigh
Rent2 Moan Wed Mar 25 22:56:23 2009 CDT #
Fair Economist says:
Nice to see something good (maybe) come out of Geithner's office.
Fair Economist Wed Mar 25 23:00:31 2009 CDT #
Effective Demand says:
Gary Watts losing one of his OC homes:
http://lansner.freedomblogging.com/2009/03/25/oc-prognosticator-defaults-on-rental-house/17639/
Effective Demand Wed Mar 25 23:01:29 2009 CDT #
Basel Too says:
eerily, many of the arguments for the expanded role of the Treasury were used to create the department of homeland security.
Basel Too Wed Mar 25 23:02:01 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
"Geithner to Propose Regulatory Reform"
This has GOT to be BS. Any real reform would be and end to the "hide the toxic sausage," game.
Blackhalo Wed Mar 25 23:02:19 2009 CDT #
1 currency now [yogi] :) says:
It's a plan. Or a plan for a plan. See if it fizzles like the bonus blitz.
1 currency now [yogi] :) Wed Mar 25 23:02:41 2009 CDT #
b says:
hopefully congress will grant these powers to the more a-political regulatory agencies. it is a joke to even consider the fed or the treasury for this kind of power.
b Wed Mar 25 23:03:39 2009 CDT #
Markar says:
Busy yes, fleecing us taxpayers
Markar Wed Mar 25 23:04:17 2009 CDT #
citiprank says:
hmmm.....the proper thing to do is break these large organizations up under anti-trust
And step 1 is simple.. a complete repeal of gramm-leach-bliley
i will say i like some of what i read there
citiprank Wed Mar 25 23:04:39 2009 CDT #
Bob the Builder says:
I think you confuse risky with "large". Most AIG divisions are healthy. Its the little appendage that is causing the problem. Its small but took a lot of risk. And could do so as a stand alone. Bear, LEH.... also small.
Parent Post
Bob the Builder Thu Mar 26 10:16:59 2009 CDT #
1 currency now [yogi] :) says:
Geithner trying to make himself too big to fail, like Kashkari.
1 currency now [yogi] :) Wed Mar 25 23:05:13 2009 CDT #
citiprank says:
Bernakke action figure!!
http://www.poorandstupid.com/images/20070921ben.jpg
citiprank Wed Mar 25 23:05:35 2009 CDT #
Guest says:
Hey, maybe they'll be hiring soon.
Guest Wed Mar 25 23:06:23 2009 CDT #
Basel Too says:
unfortunately, the federal reserve and FDIC are actually apolitical regulator agencies, so that's the type we'll have to live with.
Basel Too Wed Mar 25 23:06:24 2009 CDT #
Guest says:
<tbody>
eerily, many of the arguments for the expanded role of the Treasury were used to create the department of homeland security.
===
Did not go unnoticed. how coincidental.
</tbody>
Guest Wed Mar 25 23:07:17 2009 CDT #
1 currency now [yogi] :) says:
I think we can all agree that "systemic risk", to the extent it really exists, should be paid for by those who pose it.
1 currency now [yogi] :) Wed Mar 25 23:07:21 2009 CDT #
ren says:
Ok, for the first time we get a political window of opportunity from this @#* administration.
Popular anger is high enough, congress, esp. the house is frightened enough that phone calls with specific suggestions for what to go into these regulations might be helpful.
The fact that 0 himself through his representative is asking for regulation gives this thing motive power. The issue is can it be steered.
ren Wed Mar 25 23:09:15 2009 CDT #
Mike Truong says:
So CR..? Now that there appears to be gaming and front-running of the Geithner's plan as reported by the Post, do you still think that this plan is the best we can do?
http://www.nypost.com/seven/03252009/business/double_dippers_161157.htm
Mike Truong Wed Mar 25 23:10:42 2009 CDT #
1 currency now [yogi] :) says:
Mike T. the bankster set prefers to call it "regulatory arbitrage".
But tax law changes, heheheh, and Volcker was just put in charge.
He's the guy who let interest rates go to 18% once, killing a couple thousand banks. How's your pool of 5.75's look now, Vikram and Ken?
Parent Post
1 currency now [yogi] :) Wed Mar 25 23:28:37 2009 CDT #
duke of con dao says:
Post article does raise interesting questions
Parent Post
duke of con dao Thu Mar 26 00:14:26 2009 CDT #
ren says:
I'm out for the night, but this would be the moment for phone calling imho.
ren Wed Mar 25 23:12:04 2009 CDT #
B. Madoff says:
Sounds like a job for the SEC, they certainly have the resume for it.
B. Madoff Wed Mar 25 23:15:09 2009 CDT #
prairiedog says:
Wall street is done for? Can this really be true? Is this the battle of the Titans? Lordy, the implications are endless. I don't even want to mention some of them.
prairiedog Wed Mar 25 23:15:12 2009 CDT #
I\'m sorry Ben, I can\'t let you do that says:
The administrative branch.
The legislative branch.
The judicial branch.
The Geithner branch.
Succotash.
I\'m sorry Ben, I can\'t let you do that Wed Mar 25 23:16:32 2009 CDT #
dryfly says:
Phil Gramm: "Oh Noes!"
dryfly Wed Mar 25 23:21:39 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
Hee! Loving this "psycological recession." That tap on the should at work a couple of weeks ago, was just in my head...
Parent Post
Blackhalo Wed Mar 25 23:30:33 2009 CDT #
dryfly says:
So can they all fit in the Caymans or will some have to locate to Bermuda?
dryfly Wed Mar 25 23:22:50 2009 CDT #
Basel Too says:
based on their long-term performance, curtailing big paydays for short-term victories.
Now only if the government applied the same standard to itself.
Basel Too Wed Mar 25 23:23:32 2009 CDT #
citiprank says:
ren I would call.. but my rep is wingnut peter roskam... I'd prefer that the next time I read about him it's in the obituary pages or police blotter
citiprank Wed Mar 25 23:24:02 2009 CDT #
citiprank says:
Basel, the govt is run the way it is largely because the people demand it.
Americans refuse to ever think about the long term implications of policy... look at raygun.. perfect example
citiprank Wed Mar 25 23:25:15 2009 CDT #
1 currency now [yogi] :) says:
c-prank I used to wonder how an outright lying crook like Nixon could fool so many people. Then it hit me...
Parent Post
1 currency now [yogi] :) Wed Mar 25 23:31:25 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Hate to echo Jas, but :
Watch what politicians do, not what they say
Anonymous Wed Mar 25 23:25:53 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Just some more window dressing to sweeten up the taxpayers for the next round of trough-filling at the end of the quarter.
But even so, notice they aren't talking about doing away with "too big to fail". Timmeh just has a master plan for the feds to "regulate" it more.
And of course America would never elect an executive that believed regulations were best used as tp.
No. Not ever...
Anonymous Wed Mar 25 23:26:06 2009 CDT #
sportsfan says:
At least the government works in two year election cycles. That's better than quarterly results on the street or annual performance/retention bonuses.
sportsfan Wed Mar 25 23:26:32 2009 CDT #
Guest says:
Succotash.
--------------------------------
I have always liked succotash actually.
The New York Times
Albany Reaches Deal to Repeal ’70s-Era Drug Laws
By JEREMY W. PETERS
Published: March 25, 2009
ALBANY — Gov. David A. Paterson and New York legislative leaders have reached an agreement to dismantle much of what remains of the state’s strict 1970s-era drug laws, once among the toughest in the nation.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/26/nyregion/26rockefeller.html
Guest Wed Mar 25 23:27:31 2009 CDT #
scone says:
Barn door, horse, etc. No substitutute for RICO and perp walks. 8-)
scone Wed Mar 25 23:29:43 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
"Geithner is definitely busy"
This guy is an idiot
Anonymous Wed Mar 25 23:31:23 2009 CDT #
sportsfan says:
An upside to the Spitzer takedown.
sportsfan Wed Mar 25 23:31:35 2009 CDT #
Black Star Ranch says:
"Nice to see something good (maybe) come out of Geithner's office."
The only good that will come out of THAT office will be when Tim Geithner himself comes out of it for the last time!
Black Star Ranch Wed Mar 25 23:32:07 2009 CDT #
sportsfan says:
He's the guy who let interest rates go to 18% once, killing a couple thousand banks.
yogi, I think the rates were already there when he took over the Fed.
One thing is for sure, though, he brought those rates back down and did it with a hatchet approach that worked.
sportsfan Wed Mar 25 23:34:12 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
yogi, I think the rates were already there when he took over the Fed.
I'm pretty sure he was the guy that ended DD inflation with DD interest rates.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Volcker
"The federal funds rate, which had averaged 11.2% in 1979, was raised by Volcker to a peak of 20% in June 1981. The prime rate rose to 21.5% in '81 as well."
Parent Post
Blackhalo Wed Mar 25 23:39:50 2009 CDT #
citiprank says:
"
“c-prank I used to wonder how an outright lying crook like Nixon could fool so many people. Then it hit me..."
People like being lied to.. see carter, Jimmy.. he tried telling the truth and got run out of town
citiprank Wed Mar 25 23:34:53 2009 CDT #
bearly says:
What will GS and JPM do to generate all that imaginary wealth, and what will hold their stocks up ?
bearly Wed Mar 25 23:35:21 2009 CDT #
duke of con dao says:
what explains the high price of GS ... 112 $, is it that the market believes that they are sui generis?
Parent Post
duke of con dao Thu Mar 26 00:21:10 2009 CDT #
August1991 says:
Timothy Vladimir Uliyanov Geithner
Another Gosplan.
August1991 Wed Mar 25 23:37:25 2009 CDT #
dryfly says:
This is TG's Stimulus Package for the Lobbyist Industry...
dryfly Wed Mar 25 23:37:45 2009 CDT #
1 currency now [yogi] :) says:
Governor Paterson is my political hero, not because he could never have been elected in a million years, although that is marvelous, but because he's probably funnier than Al Franken.
Because he has little chance of a political future, he speaks truths that make Ron Paul look like a Dodd.
1 currency now [yogi] :) Wed Mar 25 23:40:06 2009 CDT #
citiprank says:
The thing is this regulation is quite simple.. .simply repeal all laws written by phil gramm and go back to the way things were prior to clintons 2nd term
theres your start
citiprank Wed Mar 25 23:40:21 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
"simply repeal all laws written by phil gramm"
Imagine, if you will, McCain/Palin had won the electon and Phil Grahm was T-Sec...
Parent Post
Blackhalo Wed Mar 25 23:44:58 2009 CDT #
Elrod says:
Horrifying. But Gramm would be too toxic. We would have gotten John Thain instead...
Parent Post
Elrod Thu Mar 26 00:10:05 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
"We would have gotten John Thain instead..."
THAT would have been a tough sell.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Thain
"On January 23, 2009, President Obama referred to John Thain by saying "the reports that we’ve seen over the last couple of days about companies that have received taxpayer assistance then going out and renovating bathrooms or offices or in other ways not managing those dollars appropriately." Obama's press secretary Robert Gibbs also said taxpayer money shouldn't go to "line the pockets of people" who've gotten financial assistance. "The American people need to be greatly assured that their hard-earned money is not going to the bonuses or the remodeling of an office at a bank that’s in trouble," Gibbs said.[18]
On January 29, 2009, President Obama publicly criticized the large bonuses such as those handed out by Thain. Obama said: "I saw an article today indicating that Wall Street bankers had given themselves $20 billion worth of bonuses at a time when most of these institutions were teetering on collapse and they are asking for taxpayers to help sustain them, and when taxpayers find themselves in the difficult position that if they don't provide help that the entire system could come down on top of our heads -- that is the height of irresponsibility. It is shameful. And part of what we're going to need is for folks on Wall Street who are asking for help to show some restraint and show some discipline and show some sense of responsibility. The American people understand that we've got a big hole that we've got to dig ourselves out of -- but they don't like the idea that people are digging a bigger hole even as they're being asked to fill it up."[19] Vice President Joe Biden also said the bonuses "offends the sensibilities. I mean, I'd like to throw these guys in the brig."
Parent Post
Blackhalo Thu Mar 26 00:16:43 2009 CDT #
dryfly says:
Timothy Vladimir Uliyanov Geithner
Another Gosplan.
We are working backwards... after Gosplan we send the bankers to the Kolyma for 're-education'. They can learn to become heros of labor.
dryfly Wed Mar 25 23:41:20 2009 CDT #
Trainwreck says:
I generally like what he is saying,
Trainwreck Wed Mar 25 23:41:24 2009 CDT #
I\'m sorry Ben, I can\'t let you do that says:
Another Gosplan.
осударственный комитет по планированию
Sure hope I spelled that right.
I\'m sorry Ben, I can\'t let you do that Wed Mar 25 23:41:37 2009 CDT #
sportsfan says:
<i>yogi, I think the rates were already there when he took over the Fed. </i>
Blackhalo, thanks for the history. My bad. The inflation was already there when he took over the Fed and he brought that down with a hatchet (that being the Fed Funds rate).
What? You mean everything I ever lived through is now on the internet?
Does that include the first time I . . . . .
sportsfan Wed Mar 25 23:44:30 2009 CDT #
Trainwreck says:
Oh just wanted to add, the solution to our crisis needs to revolve around jobs jobs and jobs. All sectors of our economy. Blue, white, illegal, our government and the fed needs to look closely at full employment and consider that as their holy grail of achievement.
Trainwreck Wed Mar 25 23:45:22 2009 CDT #
the poster formerly known as nitpicker says:
I have read that the ECB actually has a somewhat easier task than the Fed, and that's to control inflation. The Fed has to juggle two contradictory tasks...deal with inflation, AND promote jobs.
Parent Post
the poster formerly known as nitpicker Thu Mar 26 00:09:51 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Geitner suggests the treasury have more power.
Why is it that in high places, the guy who screws up always demands more power?
How come congress gives it to them? Dang!!
Anonymous Wed Mar 25 23:45:55 2009 CDT #
I\'m sorry Ben, I can\'t let you do that says:
Imagine, if you will, McCain/Palin had won the electon and Phil Grahm was T-Sec... =-O
I\'m sorry Ben, I can\'t let you do that Wed Mar 25 23:46:34 2009 CDT #
REBear says:
What are the chances that there is some hooocodanode loophole?
REBear Wed Mar 25 23:46:47 2009 CDT #
mock turtle says:
regulating the shadow banking industry is the right thing to do
question is, can obamas administration muster enough force and persuasion
phill gramm, greenspan, rubin, summers and their crony capitalit friends waited for the stain to dry on a blue dress, and then while clinton was facing impeachment trial rammed the 11 thousand page banking modernization act thru congress one week before Christmas
i have not been in geithners corner, but if he can get this done ill stop considering him a toy and a tool of the banksters
for a free markeet system to work we must have transparency, fair competition and accountability the derrrivatives market has been a pure cesspool
mock turtle Wed Mar 25 23:47:16 2009 CDT #
poic.v20 says:
FED setting rates is a mirage. The market sets rates and the FED follows. Both Greenspan and Galbraith have admitted this on more than one occasion.
But the FED needs to keep alive the illusion that they control rates. How do they do this?
1) Bring in a deflation fighter like Bernanke who will counter deflation by "lowering"rates.
2) Brin in an inflation fighter like Volker who will counter inflation by "raising" rates.
In the end inflationary and deflationary cycles always have their way and the FED does nothing more feeble attempts to control them.
poic.v20 Wed Mar 25 23:47:20 2009 CDT #
citiprank says:
"Imagine, if you will, McCain/Palin had won the electon and Phil Grahm was T-Sec..."
I wouldn't live here anymore.... no way would I have stuck around for that.
Imagine if McCain had won and then died... EEEKKKEKK
Palin is easily the worst major party canidate on a presidential ticket EVER... she makes bush look like einstein
citiprank Wed Mar 25 23:49:30 2009 CDT #
duke of con dao says:
citiprank... while I agree Palin would not have been great, look at Truman's record before he became Prez... had FDR lived another say 2 years there would have been no Vietnam... Harry was playing catch-up from day one!
Parent Post
duke of con dao Thu Mar 26 01:35:43 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
At 12:49:30 AM citiprank wrote
Palin is easily the worst major party canidate on a presidential ticket EVER... she makes bush look like einstein
And 48% of U.S. voters chose the ticket on which she appeared. How's that for blood-curdling?
Parent Post
Anonymous Thu Mar 26 05:15:25 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
<i>Those firms would be required to hold relatively more capital in their reserves against losses than smaller firms, to demonstrate that they have access to adequate funding to support their operations</i>
And having leveraged themselves into oblivion with no hope of recapitalization, and having paid themselves bonuses they have not earned, the large firms will reluctantly accept funding from the smallest economic units that can provide the capital, the taxpayers. Well isn't that special.
Anonymous Wed Mar 25 23:50:36 2009 CDT #
citiprank says:
seriously.. just repeal the laws forced in at the end of clintons presidency..
voila.. instant reform
citiprank Wed Mar 25 23:51:12 2009 CDT #
Elrod says:
We need more. Glass-Steagall repeal allowed Citigroup to arise. But there were plenty of other TBTF firms coming down the pike before 1999. We need a total modernized regulatory system.
Parent Post
Elrod Thu Mar 26 00:12:50 2009 CDT #
sportsfan says:
Imagine if McCain had won and then died.
Nova's story over on afterthecrash.com would be a musical comedy compared to the reality in which we would be living.
sportsfan Wed Mar 25 23:53:49 2009 CDT #
dryfly says:
i have not been in geithners corner, but if he can get this done ill stop considering him a toy and a tool of the banksters
Let's just say this proposal will face some pretty strong head winds... Or to mix metaphors 'it will get watered down in exactly the same way Fargo ND is about to get watered down'.
dryfly Wed Mar 25 23:54:06 2009 CDT #
1 currency now [yogi] :) says:
Volcker might tell O, let rates fly, print (a tad) or tax stimulus money and send it out at the higher rates. If the stimulus revives wages/earnings, Joe homeowner can sit on his 30 year 5% and get 6% from a brand new "good" honest bank. Savers and earners are rewarded. Home equity is squeezed back from the zombies. We tighten our belts and work it off.
Which is really why Paulson was on his knees to Pelosi.
If the stimulus does not revive wages, our economy is not earning its keep and we're fucked anyway.
1 currency now [yogi] :) Wed Mar 25 23:56:28 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
<h1>City alarm as Treasury fails to sell Government gilts</h1>
<h2>Britain's ability to borrow tens of billions of pounds to fight the economic crisis has been called into question after the Treasury failed to sell Government gilts for the first time in more than a decade.</h2>
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/recession/5051738/City-alarm-as-Treasury-fails-to-sell-Government-gilts.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Would this be the "road to hell" the EU President was speaking of earlier today?
Anonymous Wed Mar 25 23:57:01 2009 CDT #
1 currency now [yogi] :) says:
Hey sportsfan don't miss Dickey Betts if comes anywhere near you.
You will cry.
1 currency now [yogi] :) Wed Mar 25 23:58:50 2009 CDT #
Michael says:
How about this kind of reform as well.
Are there any politicians currently receiving campaign contributions from companies receiving TARP money or any other form of direct tax payer assistance from other plans? This includes money from the Fed as well. I do not want my tax payer money going to any politician from those companies that received tax payer bailout money.
Maybe Ron Paul could introduce a bill Forbidding politicians from receiving campaign contributions from companies receiving tax payer assistance.
Maybe Ron Paul or some other politician who wants to make a name for themselves could introduce a bill Forbidding politicians from receiving campaign contributions from companies receiving tax payer assistance.
This subject needs to be blogged far and wide. We got them assholes in D.C. by the balls on this one and we should squeeze them as hard as possible.
Michael Wed Mar 25 23:59:39 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
Ron Paul is the #2 recipient of banker largess in the Senate. He goes after regulators and "big government." Not the other way around.
Parent Post
Blackhalo Thu Mar 26 00:03:26 2009 CDT #
Michael says:
Ron Paul is in The House of Representatives. I think he would go for this type of campaign finance reform and the tax payer would love it.
Parent Post
Michael Thu Mar 26 00:17:33 2009 CDT #
anonymiser says:
michael - quit spamming this horseshit. We heard you the first time. It has about as much chance of getting a hearing in congress as you do being elected POTUS.
Parent Post
anonymiser Thu Mar 26 00:20:24 2009 CDT #
Michael says:
I don't know about that. Some rookie politician could make a name for themselves pushing this idea through congress and be the next American idol. If the Republicans were smart they could gain some points with the American people by pushing this through.
Parent Post
Michael Thu Mar 26 00:26:16 2009 CDT #
Rob Dawg says:
Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner plans to propose today a sweeping expansion of federal authority over the financial system ...
Start by taxing it instead of subsidizing it you want less of it.
Rob Dawg Wed Mar 25 23:59:46 2009 CDT #
Basel Too says:
Volcker might tell O, let rates fly, print (a tad) or tax stimulus money and send it out at the higher rates.
uggh. this is why the Fed is (purportedly) an independent agency. you don't want monetary policy to conform to election cycles. never did stop greenspan, tho...
Basel Too Thu Mar 26 00:02:58 2009 CDT #
I\'m sorry Ben, I can\'t let you do that says:
"Maybe Ron Paul could introduce a bill Forbidding politicians from receiving campaign contributions from companies receiving tax payer assistance."
Man that's like going into the looking glass backwards. Money IS politics.
:-$
I\'m sorry Ben, I can\'t let you do that Thu Mar 26 00:03:12 2009 CDT #
sportsfan says:
yogi, I told Basel Too last night that I've lived too many years to weep for the Pac-10. I don't think I'd be able to cry for Dickey Betts.
But I'm always in a good mood when Jessica is playing.
sportsfan Thu Mar 26 00:04:22 2009 CDT #
Rob Dawg says:
Ron Paul is the #2 recipient of banker largess in the Senate.
Quite a trick for a Representative.
Rob Dawg Thu Mar 26 00:08:00 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
DOH! :-[
Parent Post
Blackhalo Thu Mar 26 00:09:11 2009 CDT #
1 currency now [yogi] :) says:
"purportedly" says it all. Independent doesn't exist. I want democratic control over the currency. Interest rates shouldn't be mandated anyway. Let the market go, and tax for policy as even dawg agrees.
90% too scary? We can talk...
1 currency now [yogi] :) Thu Mar 26 00:08:01 2009 CDT #
Security_Prison_21 says:
The previous administration's solution was to give banks money. The current administration's solutions have been to give banks money. (Gee, I wonder who's really running the show.)
So when Geithner is mentioning regulation, I interpret this to mean he's "busy" trying to find new ways of regulating us and of giving the banks more money.
Security_Prison_21 Thu Mar 26 00:08:31 2009 CDT #
FFDIC says:
I would like to have some fucking regulatory reform that would benefit American taxpayers. Thanks.
FFDIC Thu Mar 26 00:08:32 2009 CDT #
citiprank says:
Rumor...
My wife works at sears HQ.. there's been some talk of bankruptcy......
citiprank Thu Mar 26 00:09:26 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
"My wife works at sears HQ.. there's been some talk of bankruptcy...... "
K*Mart not working out as planned? Hoocouldanode? Prolly a better fit in the CRE thread. That is a LOT of sq ft.
Parent Post
Blackhalo Thu Mar 26 00:12:55 2009 CDT #
Comrade De Chaos says:
The show must go on, AIG part II - Europe...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123802506167942421.html
well... rofl/
Comrade De Chaos Thu Mar 26 00:12:01 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
Now if only the Frenchies would get thier gov to let this one go boom. Then it all comes down and we get to start over. Preferably with some effective derivatives legislation.
Pehaps without the $$$ from the financials the gov will look to it's citizenry for campaign support...
Parent Post
Blackhalo Thu Mar 26 00:25:51 2009 CDT #
Michael says:
test
Michael Thu Mar 26 00:14:43 2009 CDT #
Rob Dawg says:
...Sears HQ.. there's been some talk of bankruptcy......
They're on my list. Wait for those millions of sq ft to hit the CRE market. Westfield and SPG could serial default from the shock.
Rob Dawg Thu Mar 26 00:16:25 2009 CDT #
Not Irving Fisher! says:
<i>
<tbody>
...Sears HQ.. there's been some talk of bankruptcy......
They're on my list. Wait for those millions of sq ft to hit the CRE market. Westfield and SPG could serial default from the shock. </i>
Wait... I thought it was all about the value of their real estate.
I worked with/sold to this company for years. They are hands down the worst of the large retailers.
</tbody>
Parent Post
Not Irving Fisher! Thu Mar 26 00:24:07 2009 CDT #
Not Irving Fisher! says:
back to what I was saying... they are (in my not so humble opinion) the worst run large retailer in the US.
Parent Post
Not Irving Fisher! Thu Mar 26 00:28:30 2009 CDT #
mock turtle says:
dryfly said, "Or... 'it will get watered down in exactly the same way Fargo ND is about to get watered down'. "
---
you are likely right...unless
unless timmy g can find something the banksters want very very bad
or
fear
mock turtle Thu Mar 26 00:17:44 2009 CDT #
1 currency now [yogi] :) says:
I worked for a State judge who had to run for re-election after 2 ten-year terms. What a charade. A silly process since a judge can't ethically talk politics, only "competence". It came down to getting the Democratic primary nomination, which meant the support of the local machine.
But how did those life-appointed Federals do avoiding election cycles in Bush v Gore?
Nine Justices voted party lines.
Where is the balanced check on the Fed?
1 currency now [yogi] :) Thu Mar 26 00:17:50 2009 CDT #
citiprank says:
There are some things to like here... I wonder if Obama is going to bring the hammer down somewhat,.....,.... I may be dreaming.. but it seems there is a lot of political upside in that...
Pf course a cynic would say hed delay doing it to make it closer to the next mid terms
citiprank Thu Mar 26 00:22:25 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
"Pf course a cynic would say hed delay doing it to make it closer to the next mid terms"
The cynic in me wonders if they know the jig is up and are making quick political hay as regulators.
Parent Post
Blackhalo Thu Mar 26 00:29:31 2009 CDT #
mock turtle says:
elrod [pointed out "We need more. Glass-Steagall repeal allowed Citigroup to arise.
---
kind of half true, Glass Steagall had been in a process of beingl slowly gutted ever since bankers trust co of new york first entered the shadow banking market (late 80s?) and regulatory agencies issued administrtive rules in lieu of congressional dismemberment... for 30 years going
but officially, you are spot on
mock turtle Thu Mar 26 00:22:42 2009 CDT #
duke of con dao says:
mock turtle, you say Bankers Trust entered the shadow banking area in the late 80s... from my own experience as a bond analyst at Solly covering money center banks I call BS! now it is true that they were deriving a large chunk of their profits from trading operations (of memory serves around 44% in a good qtr) but that was seen a quite a big negative in terms of credit quality due to cyclical nature of trading profits...
Parent Post
duke of con dao Thu Mar 26 01:44:36 2009 CDT #
sportsfan says:
Where is the balanced check on the Fed?
The ongoing ruse is that the Fed is not part of the government; hence, no need for a check or a balance.
sportsfan Thu Mar 26 00:24:54 2009 CDT #
sr. american mugabe says:
Bloomberg-
SOMALI PIRATES SPOKESMAN CONFIRMED AS SAYING "WE HAVE A PLAN. OUR PLAN IS TO REGULATE PIRATES FROM THE BARBARY COAST,SO AS NOT TO INFRINGE ON OUR OWN PIRACY REVENUE, AS WELL AS PROTECT LEGITIMATE VICTIMS FROM PIRACY NOT ORIGINATED BY OURSELVES. PLEASE REPORT ALL POTENTIAL PIRATE ACTIONS TO THIS OFFICE,AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
PIRACY AND PIRATES NOT INTRINSIC TO THE EXISTING PIRACY CARTEL WILL NOT BE TOLERATED, AND DEALT WITH SWIFTLY.
THANK YOU,
THE INTERNATIONAL PIRATES GUILD (AKA THE OBAMA/GEITHNER/GOLDMAN SACHS ADMINISTRATION
sr. american mugabe Thu Mar 26 00:25:12 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
what part of "take into receivership and break up failing financial insitutions" dont you understand?
Parent Post
Anonymous Thu Mar 26 00:36:20 2009 CDT #
Not Irving Fisher! says:
what in the hell happened? I was just trying to make a comment on Sears.
Not Irving Fisher! Thu Mar 26 00:25:52 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
"The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions" Daniel Webster
Anonymous Thu Mar 26 00:27:48 2009 CDT #
Comrade De Chaos says:
good luck & good night yo all. It might be my imagination but popping sounds are all over the place. Will we hear pop pop, it held!! or will we hear, pop pop - Caboom ?
Comrade De Chaos Thu Mar 26 00:28:01 2009 CDT #
citiprank says:
Michael,
why would the republicans do that? They are even worse than the democrats when it comes to bribe money
citiprank Thu Mar 26 00:28:46 2009 CDT #
sportsfan says:
Not Irving Fisher! says:
Today, 10:25:52 PM
“what in the hell happened?
Looks like you entered the secret world of JS-Kit code.
sportsfan Thu Mar 26 00:31:42 2009 CDT #
duke of con dao says:
enough of you guys, what about me? changed my avatar to a character in a movie (both the title and character) I think befitting these times...
back when Long Term collapsed in my gut, because of the way it was handled by Greenspan, - no regulatory changes, etc - I thought the gov. strong armed bail-out was setting us up a much bigger fall. Consider that John Merriwether leveraged up 5 bil into a notational amount of 1.1 trillion and if not for the Russian default and the lack of a bail-out by the West among other reasons for the funds' collapse (Scholes and that son of the famous Columbia sociologist... hmm) he might still be around today. Lessons learned? None at Treasury or Fed... plenty on Wall St: too big to fail if might lead to systemic risk.
[I did briefly work on a project with his bond arb unit in late '87]
duke of con dao Thu Mar 26 00:32:34 2009 CDT #
1 currency now [yogi] :) says:
Tim G. says we need to revive securitized lending.
Maybe the 7 small banks can swallow the 7 fat banks and still stay lean.
Pyramid power.
Parent Post
1 currency now [yogi] :) Thu Mar 26 00:50:21 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
"Tim G. says we need to revive securitized lending."
"Where did the money train go? Who moved my cheese?"
Methinks the EMEA and BRIC are not going to get back on that ride. Fool me once... and all that. At least not until there is some regulation and tranparency. Too bad that with that transparency and regulation, we get to find out that BoA, C, AIG and GS are BK.
So, Timmy to the left of you, that is, a rock. And to the right, yes that is a hard place. So just keep moving along with your TARP III plans to BK the FDIC, the only tool we have left for getting out.
Parent Post
Blackhalo Thu Mar 26 00:58:39 2009 CDT #
Baca says:
"Are there any politicians currently receiving campaign contributions from companies receiving TARP money or any other form of direct tax payer assistance from other plans? "
Eric 'I'm not that innocent' Cantor's wife is a lobbyist of a TARP recipient I believe.
Wall Street is too powerful to be stopped. This regulation will be watered down by the Blue Dogs (DINOs). A little rally in the market and all this anger goes away. Some things never change.
Baca Thu Mar 26 00:33:51 2009 CDT #
poic.v20 says:
"what part of "take into receivership and break up failing financial insitutions" dont you understand?"
The part where they actually do it?
poic.v20 Thu Mar 26 00:38:17 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Interesting to see that no one recognizes that at least the words and policy framework is what the EU has been calling for (not the eurozone, to make it clear - the UK has seemingly decided that the EU is likely more solvent if saving the pound means push to shove).
The U.S. is not really in charge any longer, though no one else is likely to take its place for a generation or two.
And this announcement is exactly the reason the Czech EU president was so roundly criticized for voicing out loud what most EU leaders feel - calling someone's current plans 'a road to hell' when trying to convince to change those plan is just a stupid way to manage international relations. Of course, the Chinese have another problem - bluntness is generally considered rude, meaning that the soft suggestion that maybe China has decided the days of dollar primacy are drawing to a close is not interpreted as the fairly clear statement of intent that it is.
The U.S. can no longer pretend to be above the fray, alone in the majesty of unilateral decision making. I expect it to take a long while before some of the better informed here start to understand that the U.S. does not live in splendid isolation. It took the British a couple of generations, but then, it was a long, slow decline after WWI, while another nation overtook it.
This time, there is no replacement waiting in the wings. China has poisoned itslef providing cheap consumer goods to the world (in my more cynical moments, I wonder how intentional that was on the part of the nations that exported their most filthy industries and practices), Russia has returned to 19th imperial roots, and the EU might be competent enough to unite the bloodiest continent in history, but the EU is based on rational self-interest and a citizenry that expresses its political displeasure in concrete ways - which means that timidness and compromise are essential to how the EU functions.
It will be interesting to see how the Chinese, Russians, and EU operate in more of the more important international forums since the end of the Cold War - not the official pronouncements, but simply to the extent that backroom deals are made. Information which will likely be sparse, except from EU sources.
Who will likely be composed of people a bit more skilled in diplomacy, thus avoiding mentioning that someone's plans are a road to hell - even if they believe it.
Anonymous Thu Mar 26 00:39:06 2009 CDT #
1 currency now [yogi] :) says:
GS says they will be taking a profit on 20% of their stake in Chinese bank ICBC to raise cash to pay back TARP. My bet is when the time comes they will say some regulator told them to hold on to it. You know, like Treasury forced all those billions on them. GS may actually believe they will pass the stress test.
Who knows, maybe they've found a way to game up the common price just in time for that tiger Timmy to give his famous nod.
I'm starting to dread that the returned TARP money will be kept in a confidential black pool just in case of a return of "systemic risk." Do we even know now the Treasury's criteria for "forcing" it on the banks?
1 currency now [yogi] :) Thu Mar 26 00:45:01 2009 CDT #
sportsfan says:
<h1>I could say I'm just testing CR's new link function (since I've never used it before), but the reality is, well, you know the song and perhaps even this version of it:
</h1>
<h1>
</h1>
<h1>Brother Can You Spare A Dime</h1>
Good night, folks.
sportsfan Thu Mar 26 00:45:58 2009 CDT #
1 currency now [yogi] :) says:
Good night sports. One comment from that youtube says "thanks you helped me learn the chords..."
Deflation can pay huge dividends.
1 currency now [yogi] :) Thu Mar 26 00:54:58 2009 CDT #
The Daily Bail says:
I wish I could have more faith in Geithner and Summers but I frankly do not after the lies of the last 10 days. It feels like like Tricky Dick all over again from these 2.
Here's what I posted today for those interested.
<h2 class="title">Countrywide & Ameriquest Home Mortgage TV Commercials (Comedy Video)</h2>
Look Out Krugman, Belief In Keynes Is Belief In Self-Delusion: Peter Schiff Tells The Truth About The Recession And Government Spending (Morning Joe Video)
AIG Bailout News: $230 Million MORE In AIG Bonuses Still To Be Paid In 2009 (David Faber CNBC Video and Links)
<h2 class="title">Call The Treasury Secretary TODAY (phone numbers included): CNBC's Steve Liesman Interviews Tim Geithner. Broadcast March 25</h2>
Bank Bailout Comedy: Four Genius Clips From The Colbert Report. Stephen's Angry Mob Will Crush AIG (All New Video)
The weekend is getting closer. I hope everyone is handling the stress of the volatile markets and a crumbling nation. It is by no means easy to trade and even live in these times.
Best of Luck to all,
Steve
The Daily Bail Thu Mar 26 00:58:11 2009 CDT #
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) says:
According to a Wiki on securitized lending, the first MBS came about in 1970 and the first ABS (from car loans) was put together in 1985. Relatively speaking, it didn't take that long for them to self-destruct.
Although not an inherently bad idea, I can't see them ever reacquiring the level of "popularity" they've enjoyed in recent years.
Timmy is dreaming.
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) Thu Mar 26 00:59:22 2009 CDT #
Bob Dobbs says:
I'm all in favor of Mr Geithner. He just sent me a letter and told me he wants to give me a mllion bucks. All I have to do is send him all my personal information, and wait for a communication from his lawyer.
All I don't understand is why Mr. Geithner is mailing me from a South African domain. And how he got to be Secretary of the Treasury with such poor spelling :-P .
http://www.talesfromthecoast.blogspot.com
Bob Dobbs Thu Mar 26 00:59:50 2009 CDT #
splat says:
I assume goldman sachs will be exempt from any new regulation ?
Perhaps the govt. could sub-contract the regulatory work to GS, I mean their guy already runs the treasury.
splat Thu Mar 26 01:03:52 2009 CDT #
citiprank says:
Shouldnt this come from congress? I mean really.. apparently they are used to having their legislation wriitten for them
citiprank Thu Mar 26 01:05:40 2009 CDT #
mock turtle says:
hey
stop worrying about the gov debt..its not real money
besides
heres the plan
shove as much money into the banks,,, and dark matter banks,,, as needed to reflate...then tax it back
mock turtle Thu Mar 26 01:13:45 2009 CDT #
1 currency now [yogi] :) says:
My God look at old Warren out there building those windmills. Oh, wait, that's another pyramid. Guess he won't be paying taxes for the slaves.
Parent Post
1 currency now [yogi] :) Thu Mar 26 01:25:56 2009 CDT #
1 currency now [yogi] :) says:
My gut tells me securitized lending took off to game the capital gains tax break. If the originator holds the loan and his profit is tied to the life of the loan, the bankers' salary and dividends to shareholders get taxed as ordinary income, no?
But now they can bundle it all up, and throw all the cash into leverage or something squared and try to get a long term appreciation.
That and the moral hazard kill any so-called risk liquidity gains in my mind.
1 currency now [yogi] :) Thu Mar 26 01:15:48 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
"My gut tells me securitized lending took off to game the capital gains tax break."
Makes sense to me. Arbitrage the diff between interest (income) and capital gains. Gains are what 15% and top bracket is 32%? That is some big money for the top 1%ers.
Parent Post
Blackhalo Thu Mar 26 01:19:10 2009 CDT #
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) says:
<i>I mean really.. apparently they are used to having their legislation wriitten for them.</i>
Silly citiprank, everyone knows only lobbyists write legislation.
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) Thu Mar 26 01:31:54 2009 CDT #
RE says:
It looks to me like JS-KIT is testing their rich text editor in production. Not very nice and highly unprofessional.
RE Thu Mar 26 01:35:27 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Yves:
Willem Buiter Takes Fed and Treasury to Task
CRbot Thu Mar 26 01:40:53 2009 CDT #
Doc anon says:
The main problem is that The Fed aka Treasury, does not have the brain power to pull off the regulation and police all the derivative bullshit which is linked to private bets that use $100's of trillions in speculation .....aint gonna happen, but I hope they give it the ol college try!
Doc anon Thu Mar 26 01:42:00 2009 CDT #
mock turtle says:
duke of con dao says
“mock turtle, you say Bankers Trust entered the shadow banking area in the late 80s... from my own experience as a bond analyst at Solly covering money center banks I call BS
----
youre callin BS...very agressive... for bond trader
you say you worked for Solomon...ever hang out for drinks after hours at a bar called the bull and the bear?
mock turtle Thu Mar 26 01:54:17 2009 CDT #
1 currency now [yogi] :) says:
S & P leaves BRK AAA, outlook negative.
Fitch downgrades BRK.
Moody's has the ball. BRK owns 20% of Moody's.
Warren says "I go down, you don't get a bonus, because I have to sell you at a firesale. Maybe a trillion CDS will be triggered, no way to know". No TARP left. Can they catch Andrew Cuomo with a prostitute? No luck, even though they pimped so well for so long.
They could abstain and give Warren back his fee, but that might set a precedent. We're already selling these bailouts on the idea that we're all tied together...
Even money says they create a brand new category: AaA+/-*.
*=+ if our Democratic Party hedges hold up, - if Obama is more than eloquent talk.
Is it "triple A"? We'll announce it soon...
1 currency now [yogi] :) Thu Mar 26 01:59:01 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
Oooh, that story does not end well. Aren't the ratings agencies on think ice for selling ratings already? That is where the perp walks should start.
Parent Post
Blackhalo Thu Mar 26 02:14:31 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Mish:
Quantitative Easing Begins; "Operation Twist" Revisited
CRbot Thu Mar 26 02:03:30 2009 CDT #
1 currency now [yogi] :) says:
They could just call unregulated swaps gambling.
Gambling debts are unenforceable at common law. Go ahead GS, shake down AIG if you can. "Your, remedy, mr. capitalist, is never to do business with those deadbeat bookies again..."
1 currency now [yogi] :) Thu Mar 26 02:05:33 2009 CDT #
mock turtle says:
duke of con dao
i appreciate you read my comment prev page
would hope you would appreciate my point in that post to "elrod" rather than arguing about bankers trust (tho i stand by my general assertion BT was an early if not first derrivatives trading bank around the late 80s.
that Glass Steagall had been in a process of beingl slowly gutted ever since bankers trust co of new york first entered the derrivatives market
and
that from the late 80s up thru the clinton administration, regulatory agencies issued rules ithat lead to the dismemberment of glass steagall before the repeal of part b (part a of glass steagall remains, including fdic legilation)
mock turtle Thu Mar 26 02:11:21 2009 CDT #
Circling the Drain says:
Looks like the EU may be planning a good old fashioned London blanket party for The Chosen One:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1d3fa8fa-1975-11de-9d34-0000779fd2ac.html
I forgot which is worse, is it "beggar thy neighbour" or "bugger thy neighbour?"
cd
Circling the Drain Thu Mar 26 02:12:27 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
QE not going over so well with the bondholders.
Parent Post
Blackhalo Thu Mar 26 02:17:23 2009 CDT #
1 currency now [yogi] :) says:
Gov. Paterson is trying to regulate swaps as insurance contracts. That could work too. One opinion from a White House lawyer that making a contract in which you knew or should have known the counterparty could never pay is void for any number of existing common law reasons would work wonders.
The problem is not power to regulate, it's the will to blow the whistle on a Ponzi so huge everyone thinks they gain from it.
1 currency now [yogi] :) Thu Mar 26 02:16:53 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
Insurerance is regulated by the states, and a LOT more aggressively in some, than the Federal Gov. would. If taken to court and subjected to discovery, I think we get a ka-boom.
Parent Post
Blackhalo Thu Mar 26 02:23:52 2009 CDT #
mock turtle says:
ok duke ive found about a dozen articles...my memory wasnt perfect but close
still there or did you run off
bs indeed
"The Legacy of BT
By Nina Mehta
Five years ago, we published an incendiary article about a series of Bankers Trust derivatives deals with Procter & Gamble, deals that ran into the hundreds of millions of dollars, went wildly sour, and wound up on the evening news. Based on the transcripts of tapes Bankers Trust turned over to the authorities in 1995, the article traced how those swaps turned into such a rude mess for the Pampers giant and an unexpected legal disaster for the bank that, by many measures, invented derivatives."
http://www.derivativesstrategy.com/magazine/archive/2000/1100fea2.asp
mock turtle Thu Mar 26 02:18:47 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Yves:
Links 3/26/09
CRbot Thu Mar 26 02:37:45 2009 CDT #
1 currency now [yogi] :) says:
My step-father, a WWII vet, brought up an ancient phrase today: "the problem of interlocking directorates".
If we keep the language of class warfare to such elegant terms, like "regulatory arbitrage", "Q.E.", "pre-privatization", etc., progressive taxation could be sold to even a Charlie Rose type or Jim Cramer as "reinvestment stimulus" or "quantitative capital rebalancing".
The House could have won the day with a bill called "The Merit Bonus Adjustment Dealio" or "The Good Bank Rewards Program". 10% of recouped tax money goes to any financial company that has not taken bailout money and remains profitable for the next 5 years, at a nice discount to prime. (They have that repeal put always in the pocket, heheh, )
1 currency now [yogi] :) Thu Mar 26 02:40:02 2009 CDT #
1 currency now [yogi] :) says:
"QE not going over so well with the bondholders."
When a salesman is loudly selling a car to his manager at the sticker price, and another is telling you how well the line's been selling, even a communist wonders what's up.
1 currency now [yogi] :) Thu Mar 26 02:51:06 2009 CDT #
duke of con dao says:
Mock, my mistake. I should have added that you were probably thinking of the Bankers Trust derivatives scandal of mid 90s... I was long gone from Solly but did work for BT in '92-93 on LatinAm trading floor as a consultant. best of my knowledge exotics weren't at play at LAMB. Fmr girlfriend worked for Citi in deriv. sales in around that time in'95 onward so I remember some chats. we had at LAMB a similar taping machine on our floor. truly, gave me the creeps!
duke of con dao Thu Mar 26 02:55:49 2009 CDT #
duke of con dao says:
mock... didn't mean the BS part, my contention was about the timeframe... 7 years is an eternity in that business. I do recall the Business Week article. that was part of OC's financial collapse, no?
duke of con dao Thu Mar 26 03:00:37 2009 CDT #
1 currency now [yogi] :) says:
BINGO
http://mortgagemeltdown.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/12/credit-crisis-excuses-contract-performance-as-commercially-impractical.html
(or google Hoosier Energy v. John Hancock)
I'm not wild about "commercial impracticability" as a form of force majeure. Much rather he just declared it likely to be a sham transaction. In any event they got their injunction, giving them time to pay their bonuses (or match 401K's)
Interestingly the underlying 4000 page lease-back transaction (tax scam) requires one party (an electric co-op) to obtain a CDS on behalf of the other (John Hancock Ins.), in this case from AMBAC, who also got a CDS from the co-op (why an indemnity clause wouldn't suffice I can only guess is related to fee churning). Ambac's rating drop triggered the default. (See BRK/Moody's reference above)
I think the judge may have settled for commercial impracticability thinking that John Hancock would be too embarassed by the questionable tax dodge underlying the whole deal to pursue the action.
1 currency now [yogi] :) Thu Mar 26 03:19:10 2009 CDT #
1 currency now [yogi] :) says:
Sorry in re-reading the judge also found that the co-op was likely to prevail on its claim of an unenforceable sham transaction.
1 currency now [yogi] :) Thu Mar 26 03:24:57 2009 CDT #
KR says:
"..as deflation wrings debt and misallocation of capital out of the economy."
A quote from London Banker.
KR Thu Mar 26 03:36:01 2009 CDT #
volker the viking says:
flame on!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94lW6Y4tBXs
volker the viking Thu Mar 26 03:44:29 2009 CDT #
KR says:
Volker, where have you been? (Jelly bean)
KR Thu Mar 26 03:47:28 2009 CDT #
KR says:
Funny you should mention Daniel Hannan. This video is ahead of the curve, by a second, or a minute, or a month, depending on your location.
KR Thu Mar 26 03:52:46 2009 CDT #
1 currency now [yogi] :) says:
"This case provides a case study of some of the worst aspects of modern finance." This is the opening line in Indiana Federal Judge David Hamilton's decision in Hoosier Energy Rural Electrical Cooperative, Inc. v. John Hancock Life Insurance Company, No. 08-CV-1560, 2008 WL 5068649 (S.D. Ind. Nov. 25, 2008).
Where do you stand Timmay? Will Judge Hamilton's injunction bring down the house of cards? Why doesn't AIG go after an injunction? Threat of BK is "irreparable harm". We still want action, and the judicial branch evidently has seen enough.
1 currency now [yogi] :) Thu Mar 26 03:54:21 2009 CDT #
KR says:
1 currency now [yogi] :) says:
Today, 4:54:21 AM
“"This case provides a case study of some of the worst aspects of modern finance."
I'll bite. AIG controls significant assets (apparently) in the form of china pension funds. China has fired the first shot across the bow of the USD as world currency. There is only ever one world currency. Read that last sentence again.
KR Thu Mar 26 04:02:26 2009 CDT #
1 currency now [yogi] :) says:
Sorry but seashells work just fine for a community that frowns on cheating.
Parent Post
1 currency now [yogi] :) Thu Mar 26 04:21:45 2009 CDT #
volker the viking says:
KR: Where have i been? There and back again. I am returning shortly. I'm sure the charges have been dropped. I'm not without competent legal counsel.
volker the viking Thu Mar 26 04:05:26 2009 CDT #
volker the viking says:
Lordy, lordy, Gordy got grilled! Whomever that guy is, he did what we in the swamp call a good old fashioned throw down.
volker the viking Thu Mar 26 04:06:48 2009 CDT #
KR says:
China has just formally challengened the 'dollar'. Now what? hehe...so, you wanted to live in exciting times. We'll, now you are.
KR Thu Mar 26 04:09:42 2009 CDT #
KR says:
"The argument against this has always been that with trillions already invested in the US during the deficit years, the Chinese and Gulf States would suffer even more horrible losses from a collapse of the western economies. This is accurate, but not complete, as it ignores the relative value of cash investment at the top and bottom of a bursting bubble. Once the collapse has bottomed out, so long as a globalised economy survives, there will be even better opportunities for those with savings to invest..."
London Banker
He says it. Dollar hegemony is eroding. The unexpected event, the change over, will drive gold. Uncertainty. Strange eh? Scary too.
KR Thu Mar 26 04:18:08 2009 CDT #
1 currency now [yogi] :) says:
In more detail, plenty of existing legal ammunition, should Obama make one call.
http://blawgletter.typepad.com/bbarnett/2009/01/the-inherent-fraudulence-of-credit-default-swaps.html
1 currency now [yogi] :) Thu Mar 26 04:19:17 2009 CDT #
rent_ptomaine says:
Interesting, and fairly long, Bloomberg overview of Germany, just some information highlights -
'Merkel, 54, entered the crisis with room to maneuver because of Germany’s balanced budget. As leader of the center- right Christian Democratic Union, Merkel fought Germany’s last election campaign in November 2005 with a promise to balance the books by 2011. She almost reached that goal in 2007, when the deficit was 0.2 percent, and did even better last year, when the shortfall was 0.1 percent of GDP.
-----------------------
Germany also has avoided the unsustainable levels of personal debt that have plagued some of its neighbors. About 53 percent of German households live in rental properties and thus are unencumbered by mortgages. In 2008, Germans saved 11.5 percent of their disposable income, the highest ratio since 1993, according to research by the Bundesbank.
-----------------------
While all the pump priming may keep the economy afloat in 2009, Germany’s potential for growth remains a hostage to global fortunes. Last year, exports accounted for 47.2 percent of Germany’s GDP, more than double the proportion in Japan and almost four times as much as that in the U.S. In the 11 months ended on Nov. 30, Germany exported $1.376 trillion of goods, just ahead of China’s $1.317 trillion, according to the German Federal Statistical Office. The EU alone accounted for 63.6 percent of the country’s exports.
-----------------------
http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=an0ME5IcV5bY&refer=home
rent_ptomaine Thu Mar 26 04:19:40 2009 CDT #
1 currency now [yogi] :) says:
The Russians have tons of precious metal, but how's their Fico?
1 currency now [yogi] :) Thu Mar 26 04:25:23 2009 CDT #
KR says:
I could be wrong, but i bet not. The conversation now most on my mind, is uniform, that is where do i find refuge for my wealth. I am confused and shifting to gold to abate confusion. I know it will settle there.
KR Thu Mar 26 04:26:08 2009 CDT #
rent_ptomaine says:
More text from
http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=an0ME5IcV5bY&refer=home
'Merkel shares her fellow citizens’ dread of excessive government debt and uncontrollable inflation, von Hohenthal says. Those memories stretch back to World War I, when the German government issued ultimately worthless war bonds, and to the hyperinflation that followed Germany’s defeat as the government printed money to pay for the reparations exacted by the victorious Allies. “That memory has been passed from one generation to the next,” he says.
--------------------------------
Consumers can also take advantage of an “environmental bonus” of 2,500 euros offered by the government to anyone who scraps a car that’s at least nine years old for a lower-emission model this year. The measure is aimed at pleasing both Germany’s battered auto industry and the country’s powerful environmental movement. Car sales in Germany rose 22 percent in February to 227,800 vehicles compared with a year earlier, according to the VDA, the German carmakers association.
------------------------
Hawe hasn’t fired any of its employees this year, mostly because of subsidies under Germany’s so-called short-work system, established in 1910. The government pays 60 percent of an employee’s salary and welfare contributions on the days that workers stand idle. The subsidy rises to 67 percent for employees with children.
--------------------------------------
Germany’s export-driven companies have one advantage over rivals in other EU countries: banks willing to loan them money. The country’s networks of cooperative and state-owned banks have continued lending at a time when publicly held financial institutions have struggled with losses from subprime mortgage investments. The combination of state-owned, cooperative and private lenders is known in Germany as the Drei-Saeulen-System, or the three-pillar banking system.
-----------------------------------
Germany’s 438 savings banks owned by towns and counties and 1,232 customer-owned banks manage almost 80 percent of domestic savings accounts. None has required a taxpayer bailout.
-----------------------------------
An interesting article, full of a sort of muddled confusion typified in reporting about 'neurotic savers' in a deflationary environment, as if savings aren't mmore valuable in a deflationary environment where those without savings are forced to sell assets at fire sale prices - to those with savings.
rent_ptomaine Thu Mar 26 04:26:50 2009 CDT #
volker the viking says:
deficit spending? monetized debt? failed gilt auction? trillions and trillions lost? not to worry:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20127001.300-space-storm-alert-90-seconds-from-catastrophe.html?full=true
I say, screw the limit, I'm maxing out ALL my stuff!!!!!
volker the viking Thu Mar 26 04:27:08 2009 CDT #
DCRogers says:
Has anyone mentioned recently that this new comment system sucks?
DCRogers Thu Mar 26 04:28:00 2009 CDT #
KR says:
Germans have a definte emotional advantage in knowing why they should flee paper assets. The time is upon us to vision what exactly are assets. I am in that zone. I have lots of assets. But do i really? The answer came back 'not'. Not really hard assets.
KR Thu Mar 26 04:33:37 2009 CDT #
1 currency now [yogi] :) says:
Sorry to burst your bubble, rto, but yes Germany must coexist with the world economy. Held hostage? Nonsense. Hypo is listed as financing the unfinished condo down my street (luxury residential literally on top of a subway express stop, floor to ceiling windows with views of brick buildings...)
Was Deutschebank even smarter than the Golden Boys? At 40-1? You're quoting export numbers in dollars, have as many as you like.
1 currency now [yogi] :) Thu Mar 26 04:34:08 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
More information from http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=an0ME5IcV5bY&refer=home
'Customers around the world have stopped buying German products ranging from cars to precision electronics. Germany’s monthly foreign sales fell 20.7 percent in January from a year earlier, according to the government. The global economic meltdown triggered a 2.1 percent fall in GDP in the fourth quarter, the biggest three-month drop since 1987.
Deutsche Bank’s Mayer forecasts that Germany’s economy will shrink by 3.5 percent in 2009 and grow only 0.6 percent next year, even with the government spending.
------------------
In November 2005, Merkel took charge of a country already undergoing an economic transformation. Her predecessor Gerhard Schroeder’s center-left government -- alarmed by zero percent growth in 2002 and a decline of 0.20 percent in 2003 -- introduced the Agenda 2010 program, which was designed to boost the economy by reducing taxes and regulations. His government cut the lowest rate of income tax in January 2004 to 16 percent from 19.9 percent and encouraged the unraveling of German company cross holdings by abolishing an asset sales tax that had been as high as 50 percent.
Following the rollout of the plan, GDP growth rose to 3 percent in 2006, the highest since 2000. Merkel, whose finance minister, Peer Steinbrueck, is a member of the rival Social Democratic Party, continued Schroeder’s policies.
------------------
...Chancellor Angela Merkel is injecting 82 billion euros ($110 billion) into the economy, the biggest stimulus package in Europe. The government has also made 100 billion euros available in credit and loan guarantees to German companies, including 25 billion euros in loans from Frankfurt- based KfW Group, the state-owned development bank. Merkel says the aid is necessary for the world’s No. 1 exporter to survive the economic crisis.
Parent Post
Anonymous Thu Mar 26 04:56:54 2009 CDT #
Uncle Billy, Mental Widget says:
I thought the solution was to eliminate derivatives, short selling, and anything based on less than 30% equity, and then set the economy at a steady .01% growth in GDP. It's sadly hilarious that instead of getting rid of all this garbage, we're just going to find another corrupt watcher to watch the watchers of sh*t we don't need. But, it's crack though right? And the crack addicts can't imagine life without it. Whatever. Jas I hope you will be very happy with your dopes.
Uncle Billy, Mental Widget Thu Mar 26 04:38:00 2009 CDT #
Guest says:
the solution to the too big to fail was already put in place during the great depression, i.e Glass Steagall. so break up the operations of the big banks during this crisis phase to bring back the separation of operations and place deposit concentration caps of 5% of market share. it was the removal of regulatory processes already in place that led to this, so we don't need some new mega regulator.
1. Only allow commercial banks to trade derivatives for hedging purposes around their main business, providing credit products
2. If investment banks want to be in the lending and securitization business as well as trading, MA, advisory, then they should be required to hold additional capital as Geithner plan advises (UK and Germany are also raising this).
3. Federal Reserve should partner with DTCC and CLS Bank to create a central clearer of all derivatives for regulated banks. i.e. force monitoring by creating a centralized exchange. This is already in process but not with direct FED participation. The FED could also provide hedging/liquidity instruments (swaps/options) directly into the market.
The alternative to this is to pass an new law that forbids Federal tax dollars from ever being used to support a private business that is failing. We can have programs to help lend to businesses and create business formation but bailouts would never be allowed. It would be a painful risk adustment but eventually you would arrive at a more stable market instead of bubbles and mini depressions every five years.
Guest Thu Mar 26 04:47:49 2009 CDT #
1 currency now [yogi] :) says:
"China has fired the first shot across the bow of the USD as world currency"
If you don't count Hank's bazooka loaded with 300 billion or a trillion Fed Notes as a preemptive strike. China wants a reliable store and measure of value, which is all a currency should be, and what any honest broker demands. Too many dollars clogs the system up as easily as too few.
1 currency now [yogi] :) Thu Mar 26 04:50:17 2009 CDT #
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins says:
Timmy wants to spend billions setting up a special regime policing firms he could just break up. Must be a modern American.
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins Thu Mar 26 04:58:17 2009 CDT #
1 currency now [yogi] :) says:
How does Geithner deal with the common law? Paulson wanted to bypass accepted Constitutional Doctrine overnight. No new agencies needed. Federal Judge Hamilton (see above) called the bluff. Go get them injunctions while they're hot, all you going concerns. Roberts, Scalia, and Thomas probably still believe in some sanctity of contracts hogwash (not with unions), but let them take the heat.
In fact Roberts and Alito may not be so keen to legalize gambling. Last I heard they weren't supposed to receive any bonuses, and their securities are supposed to be held in a blind trust.
1 currency now [yogi] :) Thu Mar 26 05:04:01 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Ritholz:
Buying Toxic Assets with Bailout Money
CRbot Thu Mar 26 05:26:54 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Ritholz:
Rolling Stone: “The Big Takeover” — AIG Bailout as Political Revolution by Wall Street
CRbot Thu Mar 26 05:32:28 2009 CDT #
volker the viking says:
RE: Ritholz--Goldman and BoA buying up toxic assets, more reason to shut the system down.
RE: Rolling Stone article--well done, thorough and good read. And more reasons for reboot of entire system.
Events, not policy will drive outcome. Nothing for sure except that a few folk will make a lot of money and a big old bunch of folk will take it in the shorts.
volker the viking Thu Mar 26 05:50:56 2009 CDT #
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins says:
Fair Ecnomist says:
“Nice to see something good (maybe) come out of Geithner's office.
FE -- you won't see anything good come out of this for the same reason you won't see good policy. You will see the same process that made Homeland Security play out again, another iteration down the spiral of institutional decay.
You can't take better decisions than your decisionmaking cohort can conceptualize and implement, and the power rotation and institutional renewal that has taken place since the start of the administration is miniscule. All the actors who made all the choices that led down this road to this dysfunctional context are all present and accounted for in the seats of power, and ready to look after their friends.
So we'll get a gilt-edged leatherette bound copy of the rules of Calvinball printed by Timmy's uncle given to us at the big party John Law and Eva Peron are throwing to celebrate their reign over our society. The rules will all be as meaningless as ever, but the package will be so fucking mediagenic it'll have it's own branded mouthfeel.
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins Thu Mar 26 05:58:49 2009 CDT #
Jay D. says:
..........Asian markets rallied ........shanghai A,B up around 4%..........HK H-index up more than 6%.........obviously futures are affected by this .............
Jay D. Thu Mar 26 06:07:57 2009 CDT #
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins says:
Is that what makes the futures markets move?
Only about 7000 mini dow trades happened last night. If you set each up individually with its own $2500 security deposit as your fingerpuppet, it would cost, umm, under 18 million dollars to take *every position* in that market yourself and you would get most of the money back at the end of the session.
Note how Dow futures and their importance in trumpeting the dow opening have grown in direct proportion to the degree of regulator / mkt mgr meddling in the day-to-day trx of the marketplace.
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins Thu Mar 26 06:13:50 2009 CDT #
traderwalt says:
What's"regulator / mkt mgr meddling"? Dow component stocks trade in Europe and over the counter before the NYSE opens. Also the order book listing bids , offers and size of the orders give trader a good idea where the NYSE will open. If no new news occurs between 920 AM EDT and 9:30, the price of the emini dow (plus or minus the basis) should be approximately the opening price of the Dow Jones cash. Some distortion occurs in the cash market because not all Dow components take a few minutes to open.
Parent Post
traderwalt Thu Mar 26 06:30:27 2009 CDT #
traderwalt says:
Last sentence should read: "Some distortion occurs in the cash market because some Dow components take a few minutes to open.
(I obviously can't think, type and make markets at the same time...)
Parent Post
traderwalt Thu Mar 26 06:36:49 2009 CDT #
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins says:
I think it's a shamelessly manipulated measure that tells you only what the institutional bias to the open is, especially late in the American night, like around, umm, 11:30 to 1:30 or 2:30? Then they lean on it in the preopen starting around 5:30 through media outlet manipulation and other selective trumpeting to set sentiment for the session open.
This is just me, I don't trade it but I do watch it very closely, and it looks gamed to me. 7,000 interests changing hands is very thin, especially in the wee hours when volume tapers off.
Parent Post
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins Thu Mar 26 06:36:56 2009 CDT #
traderwalt says:
At 1 AM the market is very thin and not much is going on. Traders who are trading are basing their trades on overseas markets, i.e, the Nikkei or Hong Kong closing and on recent economic or political news. But probably most traders are like me. They are getting into or out of a trade because the futures price has risen or fallen to a level where they want to buy or sell. I may buy or sell between one and five contracts overnight and I'm a relatively inconsequential trader trading for myself.
Parent Post
traderwalt Thu Mar 26 06:46:56 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Ritholz:
Merrill/Bank America Departures
CRbot Thu Mar 26 06:30:48 2009 CDT #
Dirk van Dijk says:
While the reinstitution of Glass Stegal would make a lot of sense, it is going to be hard to unscramble that egg. The govt activly tried to go the other direction in the early days of the crisis, ie JPM/BSC and BAC/MER since they were seen as the only ports in the storm. Making sure that all derivitaves are regulated is VERY important, and frankly should have been even higher on the agenda, but I guess 2 1/2 months in is quick enough. Of course in anything like this the devil will be in the deatails and this is going to be big, so there will be a host of demons hidden in it. The alternative of the status quo is totally untenable. Honestly I'm not sure which agnecy this hould fall under, T, Fed or FDIC. Probably dont want to have a whole new agency, we have too many with lots of cracks and overlap as it is. Putting all derivatives, esp CDS on an exchange with a common counterparty is a vital step.
The most important thing is to make sure which ever agency that gets this power is not captured by the street. That is a big possibility under O, and damm near a certainty if the GOP ever regains the reigns of power.
Dirk van Dijk Thu Mar 26 06:36:28 2009 CDT #
Jas says:
--
"The most important thing is to make sure which ever agency that gets this power is not captured by the street."
IMPOSSIBLE in the system of the Crooks, by the Crooks, and for the Crooks.
CROOKS NEED TO BE ELEMINATED BEFORE THERE CAN BE ANY HOPE FOR AMERICA. OVERTHROW OF A RULING ELITE CANNOT BE DONE WITHOUT LARGE-SCALE VIOLENCE. REMEMBER CROMWELL "REVOLUTION" IN ENGLAND AND THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR HERE IN THE US?
Jas
Parent Post
Jas Thu Mar 26 07:19:30 2009 CDT #
Jas says:
ELIMINATED.
Parent Post
Jas Thu Mar 26 07:29:19 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Denninger:
That Didn't Take Long (Gaming PPIP)
Call The Whaaambulance!
CRbot Thu Mar 26 06:43:55 2009 CDT #
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins says:
<i>I obviously can't think, type and make markets at the same time...</i>
Drive the truck, Walt. The hooting idiots will be here for an indefinite engagement.
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins Thu Mar 26 06:45:33 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Yves:
Guest Post: Pension Funding Gap Deteriorates in February
CRbot Thu Mar 26 06:55:42 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Ritholz:
Rolling Stone: “The Big Takeover” — AIG Bailout as Political Revolution by Wall Street
CRbot Thu Mar 26 06:58:27 2009 CDT #
1 currency now [yogi] :) says:
If a contract requires a definite payment, even contingent on a certain event, and there is a great probability that the payment could never be made, there is fraud in the inducement. If both parties knew of the improbability of performance, and the contract was created for accounting or other deception, it is a sham transaction. AAA won't save you if the jury believes AAA was obviously another sham.
Timmy must tell AIG to send over the paper to the AG, White House Counsel, Treasury Counsel, SEC, and offer a BONUS- courtesy of the taxpayer- to anyone who can win an injunction based on sham, gambling, even "commercial impracticability". Corporations are not always liable for the actions of its agents, for instance if the counterparty should have known the deal was outside the scope of the business or illegal. GS didn't know about counterparty risk? Tell it to a jury of their peers.
There is 1.6 trillion left on AIG's book. Claw it with the full power of ambitious US Attorneys looking to be the next Giuliani.
1 currency now [yogi] :) Thu Mar 26 06:59:36 2009 CDT #
kuato says:
HAHAHAHAHA!!!
kuato Thu Mar 26 07:00:44 2009 CDT #
Pavel says:
"Sure hope I spelled that right. "
Not quite.
Pavel Thu Mar 26 07:02:55 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Denninger:
Geithner Grows a Brain?
CRbot Thu Mar 26 07:05:09 2009 CDT #
sanjay says:
The compensation restrictions need to be broadened to disallow any time of incentive compensation payments to the 10-30 senior most executive in depository institutions. They will get bigger salaries but that is OK from the tax payers perspective since their motivation will be to preserve those salaries and by default they will end up preserving their institutions which is exactly what the tax payer wants. BTW this is exactly the way commercial banks operated until sometime in the 80's when they all decided they wanted to become investment bankers and earn investment banking salaries.
sanjay Thu Mar 26 07:06:22 2009 CDT #
Jas says:
--
Proposing solutions in a system of the Crooks is a very dopey behavior and an all too common habit. Why don't you provide solution as to how do you plan to get rid of the Crooks, I mean like getting rid of rats and cockroaches. No, the politicians cannot do it because Crooks own the politicians. Got it?
Outing dopes and dopey behavior,
Jas
Parent Post
Jas Thu Mar 26 07:37:00 2009 CDT #
Pavel says:
OT but perhaps the cutest story of the week:
"Ukrainian Prime Minister Yulia Timoshenko asked Japan for assistance during the financial crisis, Kyodo reported March 26. Timoshenko said that Ukraine desires strong economic ties with Japan and asked Japan for support to upgrade natural gas pipelines, power plants and steel factories. Japanese Finance Minister Kaoru Yosano told Timoshenko that Japan has contributed $100 billion to the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and encouraged Ukraine to seek assistance from the IMF."
Pavel Thu Mar 26 07:08:37 2009 CDT #
Dead_Monkey_Home says:
Oh, um, we gave at the office.
Dead_Monkey_Home Thu Mar 26 07:10:45 2009 CDT #
traderwalt says:
A response to Krugman's criticism that Geithner's plan will distort toxic asset prices and promote moral hazzard (by James Surowiecki):
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/jamessurowiecki/2009/03/the-blogosphere.html
And Randy Waldman's response at interfluidity:\\
http://www.interfluidity.com/
(Both articles are posted on interfluidity.)
traderwalt Thu Mar 26 07:27:58 2009 CDT #
wally says:
Coming from an administration that hasn't had the guts to face down a Wall Street exec yet, this is not very believable. I'm sure they'll contract Goldman to run the thing.
wally Thu Mar 26 07:29:36 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Ritholz:
Threading the Needle
CRbot Thu Mar 26 07:32:49 2009 CDT #
ac says:
Every screw up is an opportunity to advance your career.
Adverse selection at it's finest.
Cultural and societal rot.
ac Thu Mar 26 07:33:39 2009 CDT #
Jas says:
--
"Cultural and societal rot."
It is the morality, stupid! (Baby Doomers have been bred to be morally blind dopes and they will lead to America's doom without a doubt).
Jas
Parent Post
Jas Thu Mar 26 07:45:00 2009 CDT #
Teddy says:
Jas, Geithner's new role in regulation is like placing the fox in charge of guarding the hen house. Why do I keep thinking that Obama and his gang of thugs will end up on trial in the worse scandal in the history of the US.......even worse than Nixon's? Because all the facts of incrimination are there for everyone to see, and it's just a question of time before the pitchforks, torches, and pikes become too demonstrative for the fat cat congressmen that are taking bribes from lobbyist's for foreign governments and multi-nationals to cover up.
Teddy Thu Mar 26 07:35:32 2009 CDT #
Jas says:
--
"Why do I keep thinking that Obama and his gang of thugs will end up on trial in the worse scandal in the history of the US.......even worse than Nixon's?"
That is scheduled under the American Hitler to be elected some time during 2012-2020. It is NOT a wish; merely a forecast based on my read of history. Obama has greatly increased the probability of the American Hitler.
Jas
Parent Post
Jas Thu Mar 26 07:48:11 2009 CDT #
1 currency now [yogi] :) says:
Careful there Jas, that's not necessarily protected speech even if you lace it with hyperbole. I understand we took up arms against the King in the course of human events.
Where is your better draft of a constitution or are you looking for a personality cult?
1 currency now [yogi] :) Thu Mar 26 07:38:29 2009 CDT #
Jas says:
--
The US Constitution has been thoroughly abused, even raped, by the men in power who now happen to be the worst crooks in modern history. Wake up and face the reality. Please. I AM NOT IN SOLUTIONS BUSINESS. I LEAVE THAT TO DOPES. All I can say is that large-scale violence would be necessary to get rid of the banking and finance Crooks. I see no other way for them to yield power, do you?
Jas
Parent Post
Jas Thu Mar 26 07:57:08 2009 CDT #
mock turtle says:
Jas what is he matter with you
violence is the worst possible scenario and would play into the hands of our enemies and opponents
violence is the tool of the lazy who dont want to speak out, run for office, and if necessary lay down in the street and stop traffic if necessary (or other non violent act)
never ever initiate violence
Parent Post
mock turtle Thu Mar 26 12:58:21 2009 CDT #
mark says:
Is the 6.3% 4Q contraction more than expected (says Bloomberg) or less than expected (says Marketwatch)?
mark Thu Mar 26 07:39:24 2009 CDT #
Jas says:
--
Less. expectation was -6.6%.
Parent Post
Jas Thu Mar 26 07:48:50 2009 CDT #
ac says:
"The most important thing is to make sure which ever agency that gets this power is not captured by the street."
And the only way to do this is to not have such an agency.
ac Thu Mar 26 07:39:56 2009 CDT #
ac says:
"The most important thing is to make sure which ever agency that gets this power is not captured by the street."
BTW, if created such an agency might do its job admirably for years, maybe decades. Then, when nobody is watching...
Rape City: Population You.
The only antidote to that is to have your society operate in some sort of moral framework.
That's not something addressable directly by economics and finance. And is not an issue anyone is willing to take on right now.
ac Thu Mar 26 07:43:00 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
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CRbot Thu Mar 26 07:46:31 2009 CDT #
Broward Horne says:
"The only antidote to that is to have your society operate in some sort of moral framework"
=================
Now you're wishing for miracles. I've been trying to figure the thing out for years, what was the essential change that brought us to this state. I'm fairly sure that it's rooted in communication theory, I can demonstrate that centralized systems are more conducive to corruption than peer-to-peer systems because they are better differentiators of information and can mask the behavior better.
The implication is that any complex society (any society that manufactures complex products) is more susceptible and I don't think that's true. I think there must be other factors like in cancer. A centralized system is a necessary but not sufficient condition.
Broward Horne Thu Mar 26 07:49:04 2009 CDT #
1 currency now [yogi] :) says:
Federal Agencies overlap by design. I'm relieved when federa, state, and local police forces challenge each other for jurisdiction and it's settled by law. Decentralization of power is vital.
Americans laughed at Al Haig, threw Nixon out the door, and backed Truman against MacArthur. It really isn't a bad system, and in many places Jas would be silenced. But rights must be asserted every crisis.
Parent Post
1 currency now [yogi] :) Thu Mar 26 07:59:24 2009 CDT #
1 currency now [yogi] :) says:
Get out while you still can, Jas. Go tomorrow. I don't think the dopes are going to acknowledge your clear moral superiority. Country X has no corruption. Law and order reign supreme. Go there now.
1 currency now [yogi] :) Thu Mar 26 07:50:01 2009 CDT #
Michael LittleBig says:
Geithner must off his medication. Regulators do not supervise,regulate or enforce what few rules there are now. Here is an example in Cleveland Ohio.
AmTrust Bank settled a class action lawsuit Sept 2007 which had been filed in 1985 which involved 27000 borrowers. The bank paid $14 Million.The Office of Thrift Supervision refused to say if they ever cited AmTrust Bank for a Truth in Lending Violation which this was.
AmTrust Bank was issued a Cease and Desisit order for unsafe and unsound
banking practices November 2008. The Bank delquency rate is 7%. The Bank is under capitalized and its Bauer Financial rating is an unheard of ZERO.
The Office of Thrift Supervision continues to let this family owned bank which some of the employee call a family owned piggy bank to operate.
This is Regulation?
Michael LittleBig Thu Mar 26 07:54:54 2009 CDT #
1 currency now [yogi] :) says:
The Soviets were much more oppressive. Very little violence needed. Just collective action with a few good leaders and a self-evident cause.
There are financiers who add value to a deal. They should be under much stricter public supervision and operate with books open. 2 heads still better than any genius.
1 currency now [yogi] :) Thu Mar 26 08:08:25 2009 CDT #
END