I don't see the problem. $4 trillion is only like four bills.

Oh, wait, they mean U.S. dollars?

So the IMF says toxic assets will continue to grow and will reach $4 Trillion.
Meredith Whitney says we are going to see a directional change and the banks are returning to profitability.
One of them has got to be wrong

Only 4 trillion.. optimists!

I saw the headline and thought: So what, it's all just numbers anyway. Now If they had said two years ago that there might be horrendous losses of hundreds of billions, then I might cut them some slack. But throw around trillion dollar figures now and you've got to believe it's almost meaningless, i.e., there's no way this is going to equal "real money", we're in the realm of imaginary funny money.

Isn't Sarah a J-People name? She must be part of the bildaburgers.

The Japanese finance minister on Monday pledged to unveil a new $100bn (£678m) package aimed at boosting employment and helping the stricken economy through its deepening recession.

Meanwhile Spain lengthed the time allowed for naps...

Anonymous wrote on Mon, 04/06/2009 - 9:43pm.
Nemo,
Robert Reich counts. Has he called a depression?

Well, he admitted to using Zoloft

Damnit Nemo, Stroke the lizard! Don't go Reptar! I will miss your shiny little eyes

"Meanwhile Spain lengthed the time allowed for naps... .."

I always liked your sense of humor, nova.......

What's the big deal? Just have the central banks of each country buy the debt, and then have the IMF buy that debt. Problem solved.

I just realized women can count higher than men...

BSR, Are goats that finicky when comes to giving milk?

So now the IMF is concerned...Whats in it for them...?

FiveFiveFive CanIHaveFive IGotFive SixSixSix DoIHearSix SixOverthere EightEight IHaveEight NineNineNine.................WHERE'S MY WHISKEY? I like a nice little Blowup as much as anybody,but this is starting to get out of hand.I will not live in a world where I have to wipe my ass with leaves or corncobs!

"George Soros Says "US Banking System Is Effectively Insolvent"

Fact is he still is living in the USA and most likely keeps a US bank account...
nough said

Misean - The IMF are control freaks...more disasters make then work to foster their interests. A manufactured form of supremecy.

Barley (member) wrote on Mon, 04/06/2009 - 9:59pm.
nova - Still selling cigs to minors?

And fortified wine. For you, I have a case of white whine.

EHP - "but that would have been a loss of face"

Bingo. Greatest and costliest cognitive dissonance ever.

I got all warm and fuzzy reading this. Crocuses everywhere! From the NYTimes:

Muted Signs of Life in the Credit Markets

Lucifer wrote on Mon, 04/06/2009 - 5:38pm.

The Milky Way is estimated to contain between 200 to 400 billion stars...

Aren't you neglecting the super massive AIG sitting at the core? You may not see it, but you can detect its gravitational effects on the rest of the galaxy.

"We've come a long way. I remember when"
CR

I remember when my neighbor threw a spoon of potatoe salad in July 07. He was aiming for me 'cause I was yacking about the approaching peril. He was a RE agent.

Well, now we see something has changed. He and his wife was over for dinner the other weekend. Their 401k is down 54% and this month (April) they are going to let the foreclosure happen on their house. He has not sold a property in seven months and she is now working partime, from full time...btw they have 30% skin in the game...but simply cant go on. I said nothing. I served a geat BBQ dinner.

sdtf,

that would be a black hole not some exploding budding universe creation.... come on watch direct TV 278 before dirty jobs.....

"I am in purgatory at the moment. Yesterday, my sharp tongue lit into Sarah Palin."

Which thread?

i defer to you Carl Sagan i mean uhhhhh Lucifer....

I don't recall seeing this posted before:

"Economy Rescue: Adding up the dollars". Here are all the elements of all the bailouts."

TOTAL: $10.5 trillion allocated, $2.6 trillion spent

http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/storysupplement/bailout_scorecard/ind...

reptillian,,
Yes, you're doomed.. .so are the rest of us. Don't go anywhere...you would be missed.

MISEAN, SHNAPS... so good to see you again.

Looks like the new comment system is bringing everyone back. Thanks yet again to Master Ken!!!

More Reasons to Worry About Inflation

Many deflationistas believe that the wealth being destroyed by the bursting of the global credit bubble will swamp the money being created by fiscal and monetary authorities for the foreseeable future, thus eliminating the threat of inflation, at least in the near term.

If, for example, enough people start to believe that a government is embarking on road-to-ruin economic policies, hordes of those who hold the currency may suddenly start stampeding for the exits, altering the supply-and-demand equation and leading to a contraction in its purchasing power.

If, for example, enough people start to believe that a government is embarking on road-to-ruin economic policies, hordes of those who hold the currency may suddenly start stampeding for the exits, altering the supply-and-demand equation and leading to a contraction in its purchasing power.

When I read this, it seemed that every third word, started with an "O" and ended with an "L."

But patientrenter says the private sector "does more with less".

Evidently 4 trillion more.

TJ - thx, but in my case it was more lack of internetz, although I do like Ken's latest killer app. Although it is painfully slow on the ipod. Maybe some enterprising nerd can whip up an iphone app for comments? That's so hot right now. The most popular article in todays NYT featured some neoMaxiZoondweebie who made his million by writing a shoot-em-up app for the iPhone. (Yay, America.)

But.. but but,,, Bernanke said the total cost of the credit losses would be $100 billion.

Somebody isn't a wewy good foecasta.

Given that money has neither been created or destroyed

Siwwy Wabbit.

anony @ 8:19: we need Morgan to force all the bastards in a room to take responsibiity
fat chance with this crowd

OT but interesting:

Communities print their own currency to keep cash flowing

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2009-04-05-scrip_N.htm?loc=interst...

A small but growing number of cash-strapped communities are printing their own money.

Borrowing from a Depression-era idea, they are aiming to help consumers make ends meet and support struggling local businesses.

The systems generally work like this: Businesses and individuals form a network to print currency. Shoppers buy it at a discount - say, 95 cents for $1 value - and spend the full value at stores that accept the currency.

Hilarious, almost (saw this at Zero Hedge):

March Federal receipts are 30% below '08.

https://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/100xx/doc10069/04-2009-MBR.pdf

Obama, you are in a hole.

Quit digging.

six trillion gone

"Shoppers buy it at a discount - say, 95 cents for $1 value - and spend the full value at stores that accept the currency. "

I thought the Fed/Treasury/IRS frowned on such behavior. Seems like it would be a pain on the tax forms.

Obama, you are in a hole.

Quit digging.

Or simply start printing. The only reason the government collects taxes under fiat regime is to control inflation. Since inflation is not the primary concern now, the government can simply print however much it needs. Tax receipts are just nostalgia for the times when money was based on gold.

CR, if a shortfall of 30% for Federal tax receipts does not scream ''Depression,' I have no idea what does.

Fiscal year to date through March, Federal receipts are down 14%.

Wow.

Down hard and accelerating.

From reading the comments here and on the last thread, I'm thinking maybe I misinterpreted what Meredith Whitney said. I thought she meant accounting gimmickry would allow the banks to claim a short run increase in the value of their assets and decrease in their liabilities even though this was just papering over their true situation, they remain screwed, and will be earning next to nothing in the future. Please correct where I misunderstood on this.

"Hint: the Chinese leadership is not as clueless as Joe Sixpack."

Apparently so, as they seem to have accumulated themselves into an uncomfortable position. If they attempt to liquidate their dollars or even stop buying them, they destroy their export economy AND the 2 trillion in dollar based assets they hold.

China, welcome to capitalism, you noobs.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/03/opinion/03krugman.html?hp

Please correct where I misunderstood on this.
They will be earning nothing, not next to nothing.
minor error

Don't forget
3. Giant Alphabet Ponzis: CDS, synthetic CDO squared, ABS, in the shadow balance sheets.

""Communities print their own currency to keep cash flowing""

a) no one will trust any individual community when it comes to currency
b) any printing of cash that is not supported by any real goods leads to high inflation
c) high inflation (we are talking double digits) spells two huge problems: destruction of any positive sentiment & impossibility to do any long term business planning. it is not just contra productive, uncontrolled inflation is the most destructive force in the economic universe

"The federal receipts data can still be a little noisy in March"

The unemployed withhold very little... BLS, they put the L, in BS.

Protests are planned in cities across the country on April 11
http://www.anewwayforward.org/demonstrations/

Good night all

p.s. comrade mesian, welcome back!

(must be a tax season )

Flashback:

Should you, or any of your Impossible Missions Force be caught or killed, the Secretary will disavow any knowledge of your activity. This tape will self destruct in ten seconds.

[Kresa, who described this weekend's meeting as "extensive," is working to replace a majority of GM's board before an August annual meeting as part of the changes the U.S. government wants.]

The deck chairs on the sun deck need to be tilted a little to take better advantage of the sun's rays as the band strikes up another tune. All the life boats have been deployed...

CR, those tax receipt numbers are going to be really interesting the next year or two. How about a few graphs now and again?

Mr.M.

I shall be at the NYC protest just to see - as a resident of interesting times, I feel it would be a shame if I didn't go just to check it out.

Unfortunately I had to drop my "Comrade" when I became an HCN member, and just when Central Planning is hitting its stride, too.

I mean, hoocoodanode that Obama would be firing CEO's and directing what cars would be made.

"4-13-09: WFC and GS 1st quarter earnings release...

didn't GS as IB report off quarter prior to change to BHC? Nov 28 end of FY

Will the extra month just disappear?

ok so the lead on this story is

IMF warns of 4 trillion in losses

and i remember when people derided roubini for predicting over 1 trillion

please put me down right now for minimum of 10 trillion of losses

ill take the over if you take the under

I've been waiting for a juicy bit like this all day.

"Collateral Damage" would be correct terminology as well, I think.

It just keeps getting worse ...

Disagree CR. It's been this bad all along. The extent of the damage is becoming increasingly apparent but it's not "happening" now. The "bad stuff" happened years ago when the credit was extended, and in the maladministration of the response to the credit panic.

Good paying jobs with bennies are hard to find in this rural county. Hospital/care center is a large employer...they're losing about $3,000/mo now. Cutback on hours & layoffs should be next. The state's been bleeding manufacturing jobs for a long time now. Hundred jobs here, 300 there, devastating to a small community. And pretty soon you have no manufacturing left.

:::::

Good thing we are a services economy now else we'd be in trouble...
From an email a buddy sent over the weekend... [edited to protect identities]:
.

From what I heard the W-I Auction was a blood bath for the bank. ##person## from ##company## said he didn't think the total auction exceed 1,000,000. 3 year old 2 pallet horizontals that sell for $250,000 went for $10,000 The new die casting machines went for 10-20,000 Everything older was scrapped.

Didn't Fed banks have their reserve reqs cut to zero last Fall? What kind of potential multiplier does one get with an imaginary number?

Dunno, but the boys at AIG can probably tell ya.

If the banks lost money, that means that somebody else won - the homeowners who sold during the bubble, the employees in the FIRE industry etc

Net Net, things are still in equilibrium and you would expect the winners to be taking up the slack at this point.
But, that is not happening - Any simple explanations to help me understand?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional-reserve_banking

Start here.

Some money was used to build useless factories in China.

Some money was used to build useless houses in America.

Bets with high leverage can produce losses far larger than the wager.

If you bet with leverage on the profitability of loans to buy useless houses as if there was no such thing as a bad RE investment, imagine how much money you could lose.

nominally unbounded

I like that.

FWIW...Re: GS 10-K

On December 15, 2008, the Board of Directors of Group Inc. (Board) approved a change in our fiscal year-end from the last Friday of November to the last Friday of December. The change is effective for our 2009 fiscal year. The firm's 2009 fiscal year began December 27, 2008 and will end December 25, 2009, resulting in a one-month transition period that began November 29, 2008 and ended December 26, 2008.

"...a one-month transition period..." ?????????

We are currently working with the Federal Reserve Board to put in place the appropriate reporting and compliance mechanisms and methodologies to allow reporting of the Basel I capital ratios as of the end of March 2009.

Should be OK. Can't be any worse than C. Move along.

Eh, I'll be over here blending in with the wall again...

Hong Konger,

Go check out Jim the Realtor's second to last post on "Interior Decorating", watch the video, and see if you can blend in with that last wall.

for the record, I don't think fractional reserve banking is a bad thing. I think the regulation/operation of the system been terrible.

I'm not a gold bug. =)

Just wanted to introduce the whole velocitiy of circulation thing.

Because we want to use words properly, 1/0 is "undefined".

The square root of -1 is "imaginary".

No money was destroyed. The Debt/Shareholders lost but the construction crew who constructed the house won. The landowner who sold the land won.

It can be that way if you say so! I'm not going to have an argument about "what is money". I'll just note, it didn't generate an income stream.