Comments for Obama Administration Hoping to Avoid Auto Bankruptcies
sporkfed says:
me
sporkfed Mon Mar 16 21:06:04 2009 CDT #
Rob Dawg says:
Which article of the constitution specifically empowers the Executive to undertake this effort?
Rob Dawg Mon Mar 16 21:06:35 2009 CDT #
entropy says:
The Dems have to try and save the auto industry.... a major voting block called "unions" would be very upset otherwise.
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entropy Tue Mar 17 07:17:05 2009 CDT #
entropy says:
Also please recall the Mr. Obama sees the constitution as a living document subject to modification as the need arises.
In other words it is just a piece of paper which may be ignored if it does not fit his "plan".
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entropy Tue Mar 17 07:19:44 2009 CDT #
sportsfan says:
Ask his predecessor.
sportsfan Mon Mar 16 21:08:25 2009 CDT #
Bob the Builder says:
irrelevant. answer the question if you defend the action.
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Bob the Builder Mon Mar 16 22:29:03 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
This comment thread has been HALO-IZED by CRbot.
http://realize.org/cr/halokit.php?halourl=http://www.haloscan.com/comments/calculatedrisk/5973664650688506598
CRbot Mon Mar 16 21:08:30 2009 CDT #
Spunkmeyer says:
Apparently, the Obama Administration has a time machine, and a cunning plan to save the U.S. automakers.
Spunkmeyer Mon Mar 16 21:09:11 2009 CDT #
fried says:
The British are planning to take over the Turks and Caicos Island, based on "amorality and incompetence" says the Guardian. Money laundering and tax evasion are at the heart of the issue, but the takeover requires overriding existing legal authority.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/mar/17/tax-haven-turks-and-caicos
fried Mon Mar 16 21:09:30 2009 CDT #
AIG is helping Al-Qaeda says:
Very interesting. Just did some significant work to open an offshore bank in Turks last year. Hmmmm....wonder how that investment is going.
Parent Post
AIG is helping Al-Qaeda Mon Mar 16 21:45:49 2009 CDT #
sporkfed says:
Rob Dawg says:Today, 9:06:35 PM CDT
Which article of the constitution specifically empowers the Executive to undertake this effort?
Maybe the Wartime Powers Act. Aren't we always at war with Eurasia ?
sporkfed Mon Mar 16 21:10:06 2009 CDT #
GYSC says:
All,
at 3:15pm EST today Yahoo Finance ran a headline that missed the spell check:
"Obama: AIG can't LUSTIFY 'outrage' of bonuses"
Snagit Screen shot can be seen at:
http://economicdisconnect.blogspot.com/2009/03/full-court-financial-press.html
GYSC Mon Mar 16 21:11:53 2009 CDT #
MrM says:
The leaders of President Barack Obama's auto task force are focused on restructuring General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC outside of bankruptcy court
Since the auto task force is led by Mr. Geithner we know that any problem will be solved by throwing more taxpayers' money on it, so long as the executives get to keep their bonuses.
MrM Mon Mar 16 21:12:15 2009 CDT #
Lucifer says:
Who will take over UK?
//The British are planning to take over the Turks and Caicos Island, based on "amorality and incompetence" says the Guardian. Money laundering and tax evasion are at the heart of the issue, but the takeover requires overriding existing legal authority.//
Lucifer Mon Mar 16 21:14:07 2009 CDT #
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover says:
No surprise at all. OB would never let the union be in the hands of a BK judge! A long slow death to the D3.
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover Mon Mar 16 21:14:25 2009 CDT #
Rob Dawg says:
Ahhh, so the Constitution is the this fragile virgin that once violated can never be respected? I'm serious. This is just so blatantly extraconstitutional there's developing a real reason to promote the concept of consent of the governed.
Rob Dawg Mon Mar 16 21:14:46 2009 CDT #
Cinco-X says:
Rob,
Perhaps they're using the Inter-State Commerce Clause. That worked for just about everything else;-)
Parent Post
Cinco-X Tue Mar 17 07:28:50 2009 CDT #
REBear says:
Sen. Chris Dodd suggests tax provision crafted toward recipients of bonuses
>>
Maybe we can slip a few things under the rug...
REBear Mon Mar 16 21:16:52 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Congress has approved everything so far to help out the car companies, not the Executive.
Chrysler LLC's business plan is apparently based on crony capitalism.
Anonymous Mon Mar 16 21:17:11 2009 CDT #
Max says:
Sen. Chris Dodd suggests tax provision crafted toward recipients of bonuses
I say we create a new Bonus Army. Draft 'em!
Max Mon Mar 16 21:18:59 2009 CDT #
fried says:
"Since the auto task force is led by Mr. Geithner"
Has Mr. Geithner ever run a business? I would suggest he start with a hot dog stand in Times Square and see if he can run a profit. Then I'd like to audit his books to see if he can figure out his taxes as a sole proprietor.
This is a big project to hand to guy who's supposed to working on a plan to rescue the banks.
fried Mon Mar 16 21:19:37 2009 CDT #
ponziMCC says:
I'm exicted by this opportunity! do you guys think it's safe?
Dear Friend,
My name is Dwayne Haskins an artist and the owner of DELIX GROUP of
COMPANY Ltd in China. I sell my products to my customers in U.S.A ,Canada
and Uk which i find it very difficult in recieving my payments from them
in the past as they have requested to pay through a direct wire transfer
into a home equity line of credit account. I have had a lot of experiences
in the past when they were paying through checks and money orders.
I have resolved these issues with them that they cannot make payments via
checks and money orders any longer. We now accepted that all payments
should be made by swift wire transfer into a home equity line of credit
account or credit card account in the United Sates. They requested all
payments to be made into "A Home Equity Line of Credit Account or credit
card account" .Why they requested for such account is that the funds will
be more secured into such account and the IRS will never question any
amount of money coming in or going out of the account.
I need you to be my representative in the United States if you own such
account. I will offer you 10% of any of my payment that passed through
your home equity line of credit account. You will never invest any money
at the course of this transaction.
This transaction is 100% legal and does not relate to money laundering and
is free from Drug money. The amount of money depends on the volume of
facilities sold which ranges from $500,000.00 and above depending on the
limit of your account. I will detail you as soon as i hear from you.I will
forward a copy of my
identification to you as we progress with this transaction. Please do not
forget to provide your direct telephone number so i can also give you a
call.
NOTE: YOU WILL NOT PAY OUT ANY MONEY FROM YOUR POCKET TILL THE END OF THE
TRANSACTION
Best regards
Dwayne Haskins
Delix Group of Company Ltd
11th Floor,Delix Mansion Liushi
Industrial Zone Wenzhou
China
Email:dhaskinsceo22@w.cn
ponziMCC Mon Mar 16 21:21:01 2009 CDT #
Uncle Billy, Mental Widget says:
Ponzi, that's hilarious. I came to the thread just now for the express purpose of posting my chigerian email!
Parent Post
Uncle Billy, Mental Widget Mon Mar 16 21:39:07 2009 CDT #
Vincent says:
This mail is very suspect. Lesson one : Father Christmas doesn't exist. Lesson 2 : If you see one go to you with a lot of money dream, remember the lesson one : Father Christmas doesn't exist
This story is very well known in Europe with some little differences like : Hello, i'm a african diplomat's daughter, and my father is a political opposit and in jail, but he has some dollars in a bag and i need to have an european bank count number, to transfer the money etc etc....
Parent Post
Vincent Tue Mar 17 09:23:11 2009 CDT #
poic.v20 says:
"
Since the auto task force is led by Mr. Geithner we know that any problem will be solved by throwing more taxpayers' money on it, so long as the executives get to keep their bonuses."
I thought Mr. Geithner solves problems by promising a solution with details under wrap until next week, and the week after ....
poic.v20 Mon Mar 16 21:21:05 2009 CDT #
MrM says:
By the way, so that we do not always focus on "new lows" - here is the new high - the yield on the 30yr bond has reached today 3.765%, the highest since the Fed cut the rate from 1.00% to 0-0.25% on Dec 17
MrM Mon Mar 16 21:22:13 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Section 304 -- Forfeiture of Certain Bonuses and Profits
http://law.uc.edu/CCL/SOact/sec304.html
Additional Compensation Prior to Noncompliance With Commission Financial Reporting Requirements. If an issuer is required to prepare an accounting restatement due to the material noncompliance of the issuer, as a result of misconduct, with any financial reporting requirement under the securities laws, the chief executive officer and chief financial officer of the issuer shall reimburse the issuer for--
any bonus or other incentive-based or equity-based compensation received by that person from the issuer during the 12-month period following the first public issuance or filing with the Commission (whichever first occurs) of the financial document embodying such financial reporting requirement; and
any profits realized from the sale of securities of the issuer during that 12-month period.
Commission Exemption Authority. The Commission may exempt any person from the application of subsection (a), as it deems necessary and appropriate.
=-X FGuck you wall street
Anonymous Mon Mar 16 21:23:15 2009 CDT #
sportsfan says:
. . . there's developing a real reason to promote the concept of consent of the governed.
Where were you when Bush issued over 1,000 signing statements saying which parts of laws passed by Congress he did not accept and would not enforce?
Where were you when Bush repealed half the Bill of Rights, that being 5 out of the first 10 Amendments to the Constitution to suit his whims?
Where were you when Bush said the Geneva Conventions did not apply to him and he could imprison people without charges for as long as he pleased?
Where were you when Bush lied to the entire world and invaded a country that had nothing to provoke the U.S.?
Where were you when Bush caused the deaths of HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE?
Where was the consent of the governed when Bush and Paulson started gifting taxpayer funds to private companies . . . in secret . . . and in contempt for Congressional oversight provisions?
You have nothing to say, Mister.
You stayed quiet while America was raped and killed.
sportsfan Mon Mar 16 21:23:58 2009 CDT #
Rob Dawg says:
You have nothing to say, Mister.
Actually I do but not here. Send me your email for a full reply.
Parent Post
Rob Dawg Mon Mar 16 21:31:58 2009 CDT #
mock turtle says:
sportsfan...well said
Parent Post
mock turtle Mon Mar 16 22:29:56 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
"You stayed quiet while America wa"s raped and killed."
While this may be true...just like your momma used to tell you 2 wrongs don't make a right.
Parent Post
Anonymous Tue Mar 17 06:36:50 2009 CDT #
Baa says:
BS sportsclown! You're no different than the righties except maybe for the bumpersticker on your friggn car.
Parent Post
Baa Tue Mar 17 11:15:55 2009 CDT #
lawn grass says:
<>More understandable is anger with the continued payment of large bonuses, some of which have gone to members of the AIG department responsible for the firm's situation. <i\\>
http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2009/03/above_the_fold_387.cfm
lawn grass Mon Mar 16 21:24:16 2009 CDT #
fallonPDX says:
Maybe GM & Chrysler should just walkaway.
Jingle mail the keys to all them unsold vehicles
to their creditors.
No way in hell either company can be profitable again.
fallonPDX Mon Mar 16 21:25:07 2009 CDT #
Rob Dawg says:
Aren't we always at war with Eurasia ?
2009 is an odd year therefor we are at war with Oceania. Reference the timeless classic "If it's Tuesday this must be Belgium."
Rob Dawg Mon Mar 16 21:25:20 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
he Court rejected this interpretation, finding that plaintiff’s construction would turn decided precedent “on its head,” creating a presumption that Congress “affirmatively intended to create rights of action in sections where it omitted such an express denial.”
Instead, the Court looked to Section 306, which creates “an action to recover profits” for insider trading conducted during pension fund blackout period “that may be instituted at law or in equity in any court of competent jurisdiction by the issuer, or by the owner of any security of the issuer.” Given Congress’ explicit statement of a private right of action for litigants in Section 306, the Court held, it could not “find in Congress’ silence in Section 304 an intent to create a private right of action where it was not silent in creating such a right to similar equitable remedies in other sections of the same Act.” As a result, the Court concluded “the text and structure of the Sarbanes-Oxley do not demonstrate an intent to create a private right of action under 304.”
http://www.corporatesecuritieslawblog.com/securities-litigation-ninth-circuit-holds-that-section-304-of-the-sarbanes-oxley-act-does-not-provide-litigants-with-a-private-right-of-action.html
=-X
Anonymous Mon Mar 16 21:25:35 2009 CDT #
ATM card and $19 in the bank says:
PonziMCC,
There was a typo in the email address. I fixed it for you.
Email:dhaskinsceo22@w.ng
ATM card and $19 in the bank Mon Mar 16 21:26:50 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Is AIG considered A Dog Of The DOW yet?
Anonymous Mon Mar 16 21:28:29 2009 CDT #
Basel Too says:
aig was replaced by kraft, no?
Basel Too Mon Mar 16 21:30:09 2009 CDT #
DIPing to China says:
But administration officials conceded that almost all of the most recent round of bonuses, totaling $165 million, had been paid last Friday, one day before the Treasury publicly acknowledged that it had reluctantly approved the payouts. The officials said that people who received the bonuses would probably be able to keep them.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/17/business/17bailout.html?hp
DIPing to China Mon Mar 16 21:30:31 2009 CDT #
fallonPDX says:
Anonymous,
If you mean being GS' bitch..yeah AIG is a kind of dog.
fallonPDX Mon Mar 16 21:31:34 2009 CDT #
rich says:
Well, the F I bought a couple of weeks ago is already up 20% plus. It backed off a bit today at the close, but I think it still could be worth another 10-15% on any kind of car bailout news. Then, I'll probably dump it.
I'm starting to want to get more short. My favorite right now is EFZ, single short MSCI EAFE.
rich Mon Mar 16 21:31:48 2009 CDT #
RockyR says:
Wait, I thought repealing mark-to-market was going to take care of all of this!
RockyR Mon Mar 16 21:31:55 2009 CDT #
MrM says:
“Is AIG considered A Dog Of The DOW yet?"
AIG has long been considered A Reservoir Dog
MrM Mon Mar 16 21:32:22 2009 CDT #
lawn grass says:
I am not sure why it is critical to have someone run a business that has run a business. It seems that the leaders of some large car companies and financial institutions have not shown much ability to run these as long term profitable enterprises with the future of the stockholder and ultimately the taxpayer in mind. Rather they ran them as gambling operation there to produce a skim that went to the officers of the company and some stock and derivative traders for short term gain. We need to reform the system so that the officers of the company is responsible to the stockholders, bondholders and taxpayers. Claiming the right to bonuses paid to one's self when the company you ran has been run into the ground, is effectively insolvent and dependent on the government dole, is not a responsible form of company leadership. Reforms are needed badly to discourage the fraudulent and larcenist behavior.
lawn grass Mon Mar 16 21:32:39 2009 CDT #
splat says:
lawn grass writes:
" seems that the leaders of some large car companies and financial institutions have not shown much ability to run these as long term profitable enterprises with the future of the stockholder "
I don't believe that's the point at all. The goal is "Get me richs, f**k the company, who cares about next year I gotz mah millions now beetches".
Parent Post
splat Tue Mar 17 01:33:05 2009 CDT #
ac says:
Obama Seeks to Avoid Auto Bankruptcies
Obama's focus should be on avoiding sovereign bankruptcy.
ac Mon Mar 16 21:32:57 2009 CDT #
NorkaWest says:
Catching up.
Just read the last thread.
Damn!
You folks were on a roll.
Dawg: try typing drafts of long thoughtful comments in notepad and then copy/paste to the POS comment system. It works for me.
NorkaWest Mon Mar 16 21:33:30 2009 CDT #
ponziMCC says:
jeezzz...iwas wondering why he did'nt respond? i gave him the heloc's off of my coutryfried mbs database. just a few hundred. I figure, if aig can get bonuses, why not me! ;)
ponziMCC Mon Mar 16 21:35:05 2009 CDT #
Cliff\'s Diving School says:
"Obama Administration Hopes to Avoid Reality
The leaders of President Obama's Dharma Initiative Task Force put forth plans today to suspend reality in the known universe. "With the combined efforts of the Large Hadron Collider, unannounced replies from the Voyager mission, and Hollywood screenwriters, we can state today, proudly, that 'Change You Can Believe In' now means 'Sucky Reality That You Can Now Ignore,' the President stated in an auditorium that mysteriously vanished beneath an emerging ocean after he spoke.'"
Cliff\'s Diving School Mon Mar 16 21:35:26 2009 CDT #
iceman says:
Obama's focus should be on avoiding sovereign bankruptcy.
Amen to that. Argentina leaders acted the same way Bush/Obama did/is.
iceman Mon Mar 16 21:35:46 2009 CDT #
poic.v20 says:
"Obama Seeks to Avoid Auto Bankruptcies
Obama's focus should be on avoiding sovereign bankruptcy."
Baghdad Obama has assured Premier Wen that the fundamentals of the US economy are strong. :-E :-E
poic.v20 Mon Mar 16 21:36:31 2009 CDT #
Guest says:
"Baghdad Obama has assured Premier Wen that the fundamentals of the US economy are strong"
Too Hu didn't Wen
Hu
Wen
I don't know is on third.....
Parent Post
Guest Mon Mar 16 22:37:50 2009 CDT #
lawn grass says:
sportsfan raises a good point. It does seem that governance has been off track for awhile. Check out some of the excerpts regarding red cross reports concerning the torture that occurred since 9/11.
Comparisons have been made to some of the worst regimes of the twentieth century.
lawn grass Mon Mar 16 21:36:36 2009 CDT #
Baa says:
Except sportshypocrite neglects to mention that Obusha has kept ALL (rendition, etc)those policies in place.
Parent Post
Baa Tue Mar 17 11:20:05 2009 CDT #
RockyR says:
OT: Wow! THIS is a terrible idea. Talk about pulling demand forward just to have a crash later in the future:
http://www.market-ticker.org/archives/871-One-Good-Idea-On-Taxes-Cap-Gains.html
KD is losing a lot of cred these days.
RockyR Mon Mar 16 21:36:40 2009 CDT #
Cinco-X says:
A big problem for the Fed today is that with all of its "monetary easing", it can't seem to get the velocity of money up to the point that it will do any good. The attempt here is to kick start the flow of money and get it off the sidelines.
It appears that money dropper out of helicopters just gets put into savings or used to pay off CC debt. D's approach wouldn't be hampered by that drawback, and might help get things going. FWIW, just about anything Denniger says is better than half the "commentary" seen here, so don't dis him too badly. Notice that CR still links to Denniger's Latest, so he must have some respect for Karl.
Parent Post
Cinco-X Tue Mar 17 07:38:55 2009 CDT #
GYSC says:
Seems the government has moved from hal measures and false starts to full fledged "sweep it under the rug" mode. Question is: How many will play?
GYSC Mon Mar 16 21:38:37 2009 CDT #
Indy says:
Hopefully, after restructuring, they will NOT be 'too big to fail' going forward.
Indy Mon Mar 16 21:39:58 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
My guess is that Govt will decide by the end of this month to let Chrysler go.
- better to let 2 feed well rather than let 2.5 starve.
Anonymous Mon Mar 16 21:40:10 2009 CDT #
GYSC says:
the song "turning japanese" has becomemore and more pertinent to todays action
GYSC Mon Mar 16 21:40:55 2009 CDT #
dryfly says:
Where were you when Bush...
As a life long liberal I despised Bush. But Bush's abuses & FUs do not excuse OB from making dumb mistakes and getting called on it. Fighting an auto BK is pointless and counter productive - read that as DUMB - a better way is a to be proactive... facilitate & get out in front of a 'pre-pack' BK and help the working stiffs get the best of what will be a bad situation. Otherwise the terrorists [corp lawyers & i bankers] will win.
dryfly Mon Mar 16 21:44:06 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
"Fighting an auto BK is pointless and counter productive"
I agree wholeheartedly, but Unions are the base of the Democratic party and unions tend to stick together. Letting any of the big 3 go into BK will be the end of the UAW as we know it. I just do not see O' with the political will to not do something even if it is the wrong thing.
Parent Post
Blackhalo Mon Mar 16 23:00:42 2009 CDT #
zzz says:
Unions are not the base of the Democratic Party, arrogant white, college educated liberals are the base and the rich ones fund it. They hate the working man and expect them to take instruction without complaint. They are just like the Republicans.
Parent Post
zzz Tue Mar 17 08:09:43 2009 CDT #
Gary says:
Well said, this describes 100% how I feel too.
Parent Post
Gary Tue Mar 17 12:36:46 2009 CDT #
poic.v20 says:
"My guess is that Govt will decide by the end of this month to let Chrysler go. "
Chrysler being part of Cerberus Capital with former Treasury Official Snow part of the board would argue against the above.
poic.v20 Mon Mar 16 21:44:50 2009 CDT #
AIG is helping Al-Qaeda says:
I would like to see a new car company, replacing GM and Chrysler, named "Volt".
Parent Post
AIG is helping Al-Qaeda Mon Mar 16 21:48:43 2009 CDT #
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) says:
Dawg,
Did you see that Vallejo ruling reference on the prior thread? Things are getting interesting!
p.s.: Still have my email address?
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) Mon Mar 16 21:47:50 2009 CDT #
Guest says:
"GE is bankrupt", announces Will Ferrell on CNBC
Guest Mon Mar 16 21:48:05 2009 CDT #
RockyR says:
Oh well. Asia is rockin' Nikkei is headed back to 8k as fast as it can get here. US futures have turned negative, but only slightly. It appears right now that the markets, once again, aren't going deal out just punishment for these inane policy decisions.
Time to go blank out for awhile. Good NCIS reruns on TV.
Cheers.
RockyR Mon Mar 16 21:48:20 2009 CDT #
Tim waiting for 2012 says:
should we be warming up the teleprompter?
Big news on autos from the Obama administration tomorrow?
Funny how they moved the date of the stress test to the 19th. Hoping for a short squeeze?
Tim waiting for 2012 Mon Mar 16 21:48:47 2009 CDT #
8 Ball says:
Mr. Rattner indicated the Treasury is taking a close look at requests by GM and Chrysler for an additional $22 billion in loans. "They do need more money," he said.
.........
Mo money, Mo Money, Mo Money!!! :-D
8 Ball Mon Mar 16 21:50:30 2009 CDT #
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) says:
Mo Money Mo Problems...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nzHIx4fVuE
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) Mon Mar 16 21:52:41 2009 CDT #
8 Ball says:
The better version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kR9hV-elWRE
Parent Post
8 Ball Mon Mar 16 22:01:53 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
"Chrysler with former Treasury Official Snow part of the board would argue against the above" The signs are all there - the increasingly shrill pleadings from chrysler while gm and f have been relatively quiet.
Anonymous Mon Mar 16 21:53:17 2009 CDT #
Rob Dawg says:
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) says:Today, 7:47:50 PM PDT
Dawg,
Did you see that Vallejo ruling reference on the prior thread? Things are getting interesting!
What's the famous quote? "Once you rule out the impossible what remains no matter how improbable must be the truth." The labor agreements with government employees are not going to stand because it is impossible to meet the obligations as promised.
Rob Dawg Mon Mar 16 21:54:33 2009 CDT #
sportsfan says:
. . . Bush's abuses & FUs do not excuse OB from making dumb mistakes and getting called on it.
I completely agree. Obama is responsible for every decision he makes without regard to whatever anyone else ever did.
In this particular case of the auto companies, no decision has yet been made. The deadline in the original legislation is March 31st and by that date the auto companies are required to provide a long term plan for viability. This does not mean they won't go BK:
The [Obama] team, however, did not rule out bankruptcy as a potential option altogether.
The car companies, along with bondholders, unions and suppliers, have been renegotiating contracts to meet certain requirements set out by the Bush administration when the loans were approved in December. Those conditions include eliminating two-thirds of unsecured debt outstanding, and renegotiating the terms of multibillion-dollar health-care trusts established with the United Auto Workers union.
Because the U.S. Treasury has the broad power to call back the loans, GM and Chrysler have been rushing to craft bankruptcy contingency plans that could be executed as soon as April 1.
If the Obama team were NOT "hoping to avoid auto BKs," that would tell me they didn't even give a damn.
Personally, I don't think Chrysler has a future outside of BK. GM seems to be making a good effort and I suspect they will get some points for effort.
sportsfan Mon Mar 16 21:55:48 2009 CDT #
dryfly says:
Personally, I don't think Chrysler has a future outside of BK. GM seems to be making a good effort and I suspect they will get some points for effort.
They will all end up in BK - even Ford. So will most of their supply chain.
Here is the deal... say GM & Chrysler go TU and get their legacy cost written off. Where does that leave Ford from a competitive POV? SOL. They will be dragged in as they get ground up by legacy free GM, Chrysler and the imports.
Then comes the supply chain - also bleeding also burdened w/ legacy [see Delphi, Visteon, etc.].
They'll all go through the sausage machine one at a time or together. A lot of the supply chain has already been ground once [like Delphi]... it will all be done again like the airlines until the legacy cost is gone.
OB should just shut up and crank away. There is nothing words can do.
Parent Post
dryfly Mon Mar 16 22:04:15 2009 CDT #
Tom Stone says:
Just merge chrysler with Lehman,i just saw a clip of cramer saying lehman is a screaming buy.Problem solved.BTW Dawg is a Libertarian,and has few kind words for corrupt incompetents of any party,unless they are blindfolded and he is lending an arm on the Gibbet steps.
Tom Stone Mon Mar 16 21:56:28 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Dawg, the constitution's a dead letter. Bush and Cheney wiped their asses with it on a daily basis, and in the spirit of bipartisanship, Obama and his goons will do the same.
Anonymous Mon Mar 16 21:57:49 2009 CDT #
poic.v20 says:
What's the difference between a prostitute turning tricks and Chrysler/Cerberus officials?
A few hundred million dollars.
poic.v20 Mon Mar 16 21:57:58 2009 CDT #
MrM says:
Funny how they moved the date of the stress test to the 19th. Hoping for a short squeeze
What exactly are you talking about? 19th of which month?
CR wrote that banks had to submit their own results by March 11. The Fed verdict will be announced by the end of April
MrM Mon Mar 16 21:58:16 2009 CDT #
GYSC says:
now more than ever I think gold and silver physical bullion is the best bet. You all saw that youtube of zimbabwe citezens panning for .1 gram of gold to buy bread, yes?
GYSC Mon Mar 16 21:58:34 2009 CDT #
Tim waiting for 2012 says:
Steve Rattner started his career as a reporter with The New York Times. Subsequently, Rattner quit journalism and joined Morgan Stanley, where he founded their Communications Group. In 1989 he joined Lazard as a General Partner; he founded their Media and Communications Group and became their deputy chairman and deputy CEO before leaving to found Quadrangle in 2000.
Tim waiting for 2012 Mon Mar 16 21:59:12 2009 CDT #
Tim waiting for 2012 says:
Mr. Nardelli also said the Fiat alliance -- which would go forward only if Chrysler gets the additional government aid -- could have a value of $8 billion to $10 billion for Chrysler. That's more than DOUBLE the estimate of the deal's worth to Chrysler that had been put forth by Fiat's own CEO.
Tim waiting for 2012 Mon Mar 16 22:00:43 2009 CDT #
EvilHenryPaulson says:
that Turks & Caicos is wild, 5 years ago they kind of made a push to join Canadian confederation
background @ http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/turksandcaicos/
EvilHenryPaulson Mon Mar 16 22:01:09 2009 CDT #
fried says:
EHP.
The Brits are claiming money laundering and tax evasion and general amorality...if the Brits do move to take it over, maybe the Canadians can put in a bid.
Parent Post
fried Mon Mar 16 22:11:29 2009 CDT #
fallonPDX says:
Another 22 Billion that will just burn.
This country is so f#cked.
fallonPDX Mon Mar 16 22:01:30 2009 CDT #
REBear says:
Maybe the US government should demand insurance premiums from other countries in order to keep global markets stable.
REBear Mon Mar 16 22:02:38 2009 CDT #
sportsfan says:
Did you see that Vallejo ruling reference on the prior thread?
Bear or Basel,
Do either of you have a link to the ruling.
Basel's link on the other thread was dead.
sportsfan Mon Mar 16 22:02:56 2009 CDT #
Tim waiting for 2012 says:
"In exchange for its products, Fiat would get at least a 35% stake in Chrysler and wouldn't have to put any money into the Detroit auto maker."
FIAT gets to sell more cars in the US and gets part of the US government bailout money about 4 billion
Tim waiting for 2012 Mon Mar 16 22:03:28 2009 CDT #
Basel Too says:
sportsfan: sorry.
http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202429121561
Basel Too Mon Mar 16 22:05:23 2009 CDT #
debtinator says:
I told you this horseless carriage scam was not a viable business model.
debtinator Mon Mar 16 22:05:51 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Ohh LOL... LMAO... hard to get a laugh like that now... huge big wet sloppy kiss for you !! :*
Parent Post
Anonymous Tue Mar 17 05:07:01 2009 CDT #
Tim waiting for 2012 says:
Vallejo, You know!
http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202429121561
Tim waiting for 2012 Mon Mar 16 22:06:01 2009 CDT #
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) says:
ITZ TWOO ITZ TWOO
http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202429121561
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) Mon Mar 16 22:06:18 2009 CDT #
Markar says:
It's now just a matter of time before the bond market blows. $30 billion more earmarked for AIG, more bailouts for Detroit, TALF, stimulus, more stimulus,TARP, foreclosure prevention. Next up pensions, FDIC shortages, credit cards, insurance, and on and on. All the while tax revenues are tanking. We will be over 100% debt to GDP before year end at this pace. And Obama continues to take the wrong advice from the wrong people. He had a chance to right the ship and has blown it. His Presidency is toast after just 50 days.
Markar Mon Mar 16 22:07:04 2009 CDT #
fried says:
Markar,
add in student loan defaults, please.
Parent Post
fried Mon Mar 16 22:12:52 2009 CDT #
mock turtle says:
and what was that right advice? i know i would have, and did, suggest no bank bail outs, (no tarp) but instead would have loaned directly to the credit worthy via the bank of the united states
also i believe the fed (who are the only ones who can print "money" (ha) have to help the states maintain basic services AND should stimulate growth with energy and transportation projects
whats your idea?
Parent Post
mock turtle Mon Mar 16 22:46:28 2009 CDT #
mock turtle says:
this question was directed to Markar at 20:07 who wrote
,,,And Obama continues to take the wrong advice from the wrong people. He had a chance to right the ship and has blown it. His Presidency is toast after just 50 days.
Parent Post
mock turtle Mon Mar 16 22:56:39 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
And my student loan is in default and the collection agency wants 315 a month from an unemployed/laid off single mother who is taking unemployment for 1rst time in life and finally filed for foodstamps on Friday & would be homeless w/out loans from family .. LMAO.. They'll take my tax refund.. Ooohhh I'm so scared now..Ha ha ha...
Parent Post
Anonymous Tue Mar 17 05:11:47 2009 CDT #
Mr. T. says:
"His Presidency is toast after just 50 days."
I can't believe I am saying it but I think I agree with you. I can't believe what a disaster this admin. has been so far. You would think that after suffering through the worst President in U.S. history (bush) that we would catch a break and get competent leadership for a change but I guess it is not meant to be.
Parent Post
Mr. T. Tue Mar 17 07:10:52 2009 CDT #
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) says:
Ah, 17 seconds too late. I'm obviously not Nemo!
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) Mon Mar 16 22:07:07 2009 CDT #
sportsfan says:
Tom Stone, on that we disagree, though we frequently seem to agree on other issues.
sportsfan Mon Mar 16 22:07:50 2009 CDT #
Rob Dawg says:
BTW Dawg is a Libertarian,and has few kind words for corrupt incompetents of any party,unless they are blindfolded and he is lending an arm on the Gibbet steps.
LOL! For the record I consider myself a Roosevelt Conservative. Teddy, that is. A breed that ain't been seen around these parts fer quite a spell.
Rob Dawg Mon Mar 16 22:09:23 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
" Teddy, that is. A breed that ain't been seen around these parts fer quite a spell."
Trust-busting and national parks? A pretty all right guy in my book too.
Parent Post
Blackhalo Mon Mar 16 22:50:01 2009 CDT #
sportsfan says:
Here is the deal... say GM & Chrysler go TU and get their legacy cost written off. Where does that leave Ford from a competitive POV? SOL.
There is the problem writ large with any bailouts of losers. They gain comparative advantage over non-losers.
In this case I suspect that, if the Administration or Congress does anything to bail out either GM or Chrysler, they will throw a bone to Ford. I'm not saying that's right; just that I think it will happen.
The supply chain is already crushed compliments of the credit lock. If, e.g., only 10 million cars are sold in the U.S. this year, it will not be because people did not want to buy more, but because many of them could not get the necessary loans.
I doubt even 20% of people pay cash for a new car though I have no idea what the actual numbers are.
sportsfan Mon Mar 16 22:12:37 2009 CDT #
Barley says:
The British are planning to take over the Turks and Caicos Island, based on "amorality and incompetence" says the Guardian. Money laundering and tax evasion are at the heart of the issue, but the takeover requires overriding existing legal authority
What this means: Lets get a look at all those offshore accounts so we can take the money!
Facists
Barley Mon Mar 16 22:13:17 2009 CDT #
Tim waiting for 2012 says:
Markar
+1 Washington has to bailout the state pensions of 48 states, 300 of the fortune 500, hundreds of cities and public agencies. Hopefully they don't liquidate all their stock holdings.
When in Rome... do as the Argentinians do.
Argentina Nationalizes $30 Billion in Private Pensions
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/22/business/worldbusiness/22argentina.html?_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&referer=sphere_related_content&referer=sphere_related_content&oref=slogin
Tim waiting for 2012 Mon Mar 16 22:13:22 2009 CDT #
sportsfan says:
Basel, Tim, Bear,
My thanks to all of you. That one did work.
sportsfan Mon Mar 16 22:13:50 2009 CDT #
dryfly says:
The Brits are claiming money laundering and tax evasion and general amorality...if the Brits do move to take it over, maybe the Canadians can put in a bid.
I'm pulling for the Canuks - it would be a great location for an NHL franchise.
dryfly Mon Mar 16 22:14:09 2009 CDT #
Tim waiting for 2012 says:
"...public employee unions should not overestimate legal protections for pension benefits. Localities can shed their obligations in a bankruptcy filing, and states, as sovereign governments, can ignore the requirements, he says. "Unions can win all the litigation and still lose because the judgments can't be enforced," "
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-02-20-pensions-cover_x.htm
Tim waiting for 2012 Mon Mar 16 22:17:32 2009 CDT #
ac says:
“The British are planning to take over the Turks and Caicos Island, based on "amorality and incompetence" says the Guardian. Money laundering and tax evasion are at the heart of the issue, but the takeover requires overriding existing legal authority.
I declared my next door neighbor "amoral and incompetent" and took a package from Amazon.com that was sitting in front of his door.
I hope it's something good.
ac Mon Mar 16 22:17:45 2009 CDT #
AIG is helping Al-Qaeda says:
The Brits are claiming money laundering and tax evasion and general amorality...if the Brits do move to take it over, maybe the Canadians can put in a bid.
Ditto on the who takes over the UK. Living in Dubai, I can tell you Abu Dhabi is clearly taking over Dubai. Who takes over Eastern Europe....uhhhh...forget I said that....
Parent Post
AIG is helping Al-Qaeda Mon Mar 16 23:33:09 2009 CDT #
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) says:
If, e.g., only 10 million cars are sold in the U.S. this year, it will not be because people did not want to buy more, but because many of them could not get the necessary loans.
That, and because people can't afford'em anymore. They'll find it hard to accept the fact that although they want a 'cedes they can only get a Scion.
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) Mon Mar 16 22:17:55 2009 CDT #
fallonPDX says:
REBear,
We should just demand cold hard...GOLD! No wait that
will not work. Buy our cars & T-bonds or da N gets it. Wait
that is from Blazing Saddles. Or the global economy gets it.
I am talking to you China! So are you feeling lucky punk?
fallonPDX Mon Mar 16 22:18:31 2009 CDT #
mp says:
dryfly- "As a life long liberal I despised Bush."
As a life long conservative I despised Bush.
What does that make me?
What does that make us?
What does that make Bush?
mp Mon Mar 16 22:20:40 2009 CDT #
debtinator says:
Chrysler Limited Viability Corporation
debtinator Mon Mar 16 22:23:42 2009 CDT #
sportsfan says:
I don't know whether the Vallejo case was previously discussed, but from the linked article:
"Section 1113, however, is not incorporated into chapter 9," he concluded. He pointed out Congress considered such an extension in 1991 but did not add Chapter 9 and he would "not presume to do what Congress has not done."
That's fabulous. If in fact there is legislative history that Congress considered and rejected inclusion of a similar section in Chapter 9 filings, that would seem to be the end of it. (Unfortunately, the current Congress may get bombarded by the public employee unions to reconsider the issue.)
Meanwhile it seems that the two unions acknowledge they are on the losing side of that argument since they've switch to two different issues and the related burdens of proof on those issues:
The unions maintained that the city has not proven, as required in Bildisco, that the contracts are a burden to the city because it has $136 million in 100 special purpose funds, portions of which could be used to pay the wage obligations. In addition, the unions assert that negotiation has not been exhausted.
My guess is that they settle with the City and the ruling doesn't carry as much weight as it would if affirmed on appeal.
sportsfan Mon Mar 16 22:25:00 2009 CDT #
Car Czar 天命 says:
Re: Consumer-facing nature of their businesses,
> See old story: US wealthy lose $20 trillion, says strategist
http://www.wealth-bulletin.com/h...ent/3353114178/
Grantham points out that personal wealth following write downs in equities, housing and commercial real estate now totals $30 trillion while debt remains stuck at $25 trillion.
Credit standards have tightened up but more illusory wealth needs to disappear before the US economy will start to recover: "To be successful we need to halve the level of debt. Somewhere between $10 trillion and $15 trillion will have to disappear."
See new story: Government loans, spending or guarantees to rescue the country’s financial system already total more than $11.7 trillion, according to data compiled by Bloomberg.
Since the start of the year, investors have focused on the rise in Treasury sales as the Obama administration raises funds to pay for the $11.7 trillion bailout of the banking system, as estimated by Bloomberg calculations, and the $787 billion economic rescue package. The economy may contract 1.8 percent this year, after expanding 1.1 percent in 2008, according to a Bloomberg survey of 65 economists.
:-E
Car Czar 天命 Mon Mar 16 22:25:43 2009 CDT #
rich says:
It's not just govt. that votes whether bail out car companies. It's also consumers.
You could say that Ford's not asking for money was a shrewd play to get traction with bailout-angry consumers, even before all this heatedup, no?
Just say no to bailouts. Buy a Ford.
At least, that's what I'm betting.
rich Mon Mar 16 22:30:27 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
"Just say no to bailouts. Buy a Ford."
They could make a lot of hay with that slogan. J6P is getting sick and tired of TPTB ignoring the no cash for trash meme. If Ford gave them a chance to vote with their wallets, I think they would take it.
Parent Post
Blackhalo Mon Mar 16 22:42:46 2009 CDT #
Rob Dawg says:
mp,
That makes us the core of a New American Conservative Party.
We've lost something. We are wedded to fixing the banks, fixing the auto industry, fixing everything rather than objectively determining if they are worth saving.
Rob Dawg Mon Mar 16 22:30:37 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
Fixing the unfixable seems to be the theme of the day. It is my belief that with the successfully competitive entrants of the Japanese and Korean automakers, there is no longer room in the market for all 3 of the big 3. Either we go down the road of protectionism or one of these US Autos, needs to go away to allow the remaining 2 to have a chance of success and recovery.
Parent Post
Blackhalo Mon Mar 16 22:40:01 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
'New American Conservative Party'
But, but, but .... you have repeatedly said 'conservative' doesn't describe your politics at all. But then, we all know what words are worth.
'We've lost something. We are wedded to fixing the banks, fixing the auto industry, fixing everything rather than objectively determining if they are worth saving.'
However, when it comes to objectively determining the value of America's exurban experiment, objectively no one thinks the owner of a certain exurban nation blog is more objective than the owner of a certain anti-exurban nation blog.
And as for the Constitution - that document forbids torture, and yet, I don't recall any outrage, much less calls for impeachment, when our last president engaged in it. Or even demanding that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, et al be subjected to the same justice that any war criminal should expect - a trial in open court, with full documentation of the crimes that were committed.
But somehow, I doubt a New American Conservative party is actually going to care much about such issues.
Parent Post
Anonymous Tue Mar 17 00:33:42 2009 CDT #
ac says:
As a life long conservative I despised Bush.
As somebody who's always thought of himself as more of a conservative, I looked up "liberalism" and found that I'm really a "liberal". Only "liberal" in the US doesn't seem to mean the same thing as it does in other places:
Liberalism emphasizes individual rights and equality of opportunity. Within liberalism, there are various streams of thought which compete over the use of the term "liberal" and may propose very different policies, but they are generally united by their support for constitutional liberalism, which encompasses support for: freedom of thought and speech, limitations on the power of governments, the rule of law, an individual's right to private property, and a transparent system of government.
ac Mon Mar 16 22:30:48 2009 CDT #
Tom Stone says:
Dawg,the DNC would denounce Teddy as a communist these days.What a world.
Tom Stone Mon Mar 16 22:31:03 2009 CDT #
Rob Dawg says:
Heck, think about the reception JFK would get in the GOP. He'd be ostracized by party regulars for being far too conservative.
Parent Post
Rob Dawg Mon Mar 16 22:36:19 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
'Heck, think about the reception JFK would get in the GOP. He'd be ostracized by party regulars for being far too conservative.'
No - he would ostracized by the leading lights of the Southern bastions of 'state rights' Republicans as being a tool of popery. Oh wait - you are talking about some version of the Republican party from your youth, not the version that currently exists.
Carry on with the fantasies.
Parent Post
Anonymous Tue Mar 17 00:38:14 2009 CDT #
Tom Stone says:
AC,check out the definition of Conservative as well.Our language has been debased for a reason.What we have now is an oligarchic kleptocracy.
Tom Stone Mon Mar 16 22:33:45 2009 CDT #
Car Czar 天命 says:
Will SEC, FASB and GAAP matter anymore??
Transition to International Financial Reporting Standards (IFRS)
In February 2008, the Accounting Standards Board of the CICA affirmed its intention to replace Canadian GAAP with IFRS. CIBC will adopt IFRS commencing November 1, 2011 with comparatives for the year commencing November 1, 2010.
CIBC's IFRS transition project is in progress with a formal governance structure and transition plan in place. At this point it remains too early to comment on the anticipated financial impact to the balance sheet and ongoing results of operation resulting from the transition to IFRS as changes to the accounting standards are expected prior to transition.
Car Czar 天命 Mon Mar 16 22:35:09 2009 CDT #
Tim waiting for 2012 says:
Agree with Sportsfan they will simply go back the the bargaining table. Still may set a precedent for other munis in CA
Tim waiting for 2012 Mon Mar 16 22:36:07 2009 CDT #
ac says:
BTW based on that definition of liberalism I have to conclude that the political right in this country should be called "proto-fascists", the left should be called "proto-marxists", and people like Ron Paul (I know, I know) are the ones that deserve the label "liberal".
Mises wrote a book called "Liberalism" in part lamenting the fact that the term had been coopted by the socialist in the US in the 50s and 60s.
ac Mon Mar 16 22:37:51 2009 CDT #
1 currency [yogi] says:
Um, the queen refused to allow the Canadian Parliament to meet in January. I don't think England will stand by and let Canada "put in a bid".
1 currency [yogi] Mon Mar 16 22:39:07 2009 CDT #
sportsfan says:
. . . the DNC would denounce Teddy as a communist these days.
Tom Stone,
TR remains well known for, among other things, his efforts to bust the large business trusts.
I have a sense that a majority of CR commenters wouldn't mind seeing Obama bust the large business banks.
I wonder if there's a chance that might happen and, if so, what would the DNC say then?
sportsfan Mon Mar 16 22:41:37 2009 CDT #
1 currency [yogi] says:
"Private property" is only what people say it should be.
1 currency [yogi] Mon Mar 16 22:42:29 2009 CDT #
ac says:
“AC,check out the definition of Conservative as well.Our language has been debased for a reason.What we have now is an oligarchic kleptocracy.
From what I've read "conservative" just means "supporting tradition or status quo" it's not a specific set of ideologies. I consider myself "conservative" in a sense because I think we've moved away from the ideologies that originally defined this country as a "liberal democracy" (again, liberal in terms of "individual freedom" not liberal in terms of "socialism lite").
That said, I agree with conservatives that make intelligent arguments (IMO) like Andrew Bacevich who accuse people like Reagan and recent republicans as being complete frauds and not conservatives at all except maybe socially.
ac Mon Mar 16 22:42:34 2009 CDT #
fried says:
Funny that the Brits are worried about tax evasion and money laundering in the Turks and Caicos as a whistleblower from Barclays' has leaked documents on huge tax evasion schemes run by the bank. "The government announced steps to try to discourage tax avoidance by Britain's banks"...gee, doesn't sound very tough. Maybe the Brits consider themselves competent if amoral.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/mar/16/revenue-investigates-barclays-tax-mole-claims
fried Mon Mar 16 22:43:05 2009 CDT #
Rob Dawg says:
...one of these US Autos, needs to go away to allow the remaining 2 to have a chance of success and recovery.
More like 1.5 Automakers. General Motors needs to become Niche Motors. Freakin' Pontiacs? Why?
Rob Dawg Mon Mar 16 22:43:45 2009 CDT #
sportsfan says:
Still may set a precedent for other munis in CA.
Actually, nationwide. Bankruptcy court is federal. The decision may still be cited as "persuasive" if the judge has good enough legal research and writing.
sportsfan Mon Mar 16 22:44:45 2009 CDT #
CIA Spook says:
http://download.pwc.com/ie/pubs/IFRS_USGAAPSep08.pdf
More instruments are likely to be classified as liabilities, as opposed to equity, under IFRS (e.g., instruments with contingent settlement provisions). Because balance sheet classification drives the treatment of disbursements associated with the instruments in question, the classification differences would also impact earnings (i.e., the treatment of disbursements as interest expense as opposed to dividends).
More instruments are likely to require bifurcation, resulting in treatment as two separate instruments under IFRS (i.e., compound and convertible instruments being split between equity and liability classification). The split accounting under IFRS versus the singular accounting under US GAAP can create a significantly different balance sheet presentation while also impacting earnings.
:*
CIA Spook Mon Mar 16 22:46:24 2009 CDT #
CIA Spook says:
Makes sense to ignore anything from FASB and SEC at this point and look at valuations by using IFRS!!!!!!!! No more bogus adjustments and then fraud, backed by FASB. I hope FASB is exposed as being frauds, along with SEC!!! :-P
CIA Spook Mon Mar 16 22:50:24 2009 CDT #
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) says:
Freakin' Pontiacs? Why?
At least they're sporty. I've never seen any reason for Buicks.
Oh, and why the hell does GM sell the same basic trucks under two brands???
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) Mon Mar 16 22:53:11 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
The FCAG has been set up jointly by the IASB and the US Financial Accounting Standards Board (FASB) to consider financial reporting issues arising from the global financial crisis. The group comprises of recognised leaders from the fields of business and government with a broad range of experience in international financial markets. The IASB and FASB announced the group membership on 30 December 2008.
http://fasb.trz.cc/live.php
FASB Meeting Audio Webcast
Audio broadcasts of FASB meetings are available to listeners for FREE via the Internet. Meetings also are available via your telephone on a pay-to-listen basis (see below). To access an FASB meeting for FREE via the Internet, click the link below to begin listening on your computer.
=-X
Anonymous Mon Mar 16 22:53:18 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
This is fresh stuff CR!!!
WARNING valuation info!!
http://craig.teamline.cc/fasb_archive3
8-)
Anonymous Mon Mar 16 22:54:38 2009 CDT #
sanityclause says:
The US leftists really need to get their act together. No socialized medicine, crappy unemployment benefits, regressive taxes, and a nonexistent labor movement. Socialism lite is really lite.
sanityclause Mon Mar 16 22:55:06 2009 CDT #
homedad43 says:
sportsfan:
Started last fall thinking that I wanted TR for prez and then shifted instead to Jackson. TR wielded the earliest Sherman antitrust legislation while Jackson did his schtick with Bank of teh United States.
As I consider it, they aren't one and the same in terms of impact. For probable best use, TR would be a best choice for the next prez in order to willingly take out C and BofA and formally nationalize their skanky asses.
And then Jackson would take the next term and eliminate the Federal Reserve System.
OT, Dryfly, but noted that you're now referring to i bankers and like as terrorists.
Concur.
homedad43 Mon Mar 16 22:55:43 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
EC Chairman Mary Schapiro has said the rules should be kept, but with changes. One key issue is how mark-to-market rules affect SEC regulations governing how much capital banks must hold.
Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner has been cool to efforts to ease the fair-value rules, saying they help protect investors. Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke has said he's open to changes as long as financial balance sheets are still transparent.
Current rules allow companies to use their own models to value assets if market values reflect forced liquidation. But defining which assets should be considered distressed has been a problem. To be effective, the new FASB proposal needs to clarify what constitutes distressed sales or illiquid markets, analysts say.
FASB's proposed rule changes will have a 15-day comment period after release. FASB plans to vote on the proposal April 2.
Anonymous Mon Mar 16 22:57:32 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
The government will let one of the auto makers fail, so we get a taste of what it would be like if AIG fails. It is the least of two evils.
Anonymous Mon Mar 16 22:57:55 2009 CDT #
sportsfan says:
< . . . again, liberal in terms of "individual freedom" not liberal in terms of "socialism lite"
ac, FWIW, not all liberals considered themselves socialists or even lite.
What does "individual freedom" entail, but many of the hot button issues of the day, such as, the decision of a female whether to carry a fetus to term, and the decision of a person whether to maintain a loving relationship with a person of the same gender.
How one responds to those situations tells me how much a person truly values 'individual freedom.'
I'm not looking for replies, pro or con to any point, and certainly not looking for a dispute with anyone's own views on the subjects, but rather just trying to take the concept of 'individual freedom' to its logical conclusion.
It wasn't that long ago for Loving v. Virginia or Griswold v. Connecticut or any of the other great decisions of the 1960s placing 'individual freedom' ahead of social constraints.
sportsfan Mon Mar 16 22:58:45 2009 CDT #
Tim waiting for 2012 says:
Anon
The government will let one of the auto makers fail, so we get a taste of what it would be like if AIG fails. It is the least of two evils."
NO they won't... It will wet our appetite for more!
Tim waiting for 2012 Mon Mar 16 23:00:05 2009 CDT #
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) says:
What does "individual freedom" entail
The right to keep and bear arms, of course.
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) Mon Mar 16 23:03:42 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
The definition of a conservative - you could get some lessons from this 12 year old
The Little Mr. Conservative
Anonymous Mon Mar 16 23:04:14 2009 CDT #
Black Star Ranch says:
Obama has a few things to learn. He pisses off the veterans, and he's toast.
"President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes for Treatment"
"The letter, co-signed by Commander Rehbein and the heads of ten colleague organizations, read, in part, " There is simply no logical explanation for billing a veteran's personal insurance for care that the VA has a responsibility to provide. While we understand the fiscal difficulties this country faces right now, placing the burden of those fiscal problems on the men and women who have already sacrificed a great deal for this country is unconscionable."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/20090316/pl_usnw/the_american_legion_strongly_opposed_to_president_s_plan_to_charge_wounded_heroes_for_treatment
Service-Connected Veterans are treated by the VA. We shouldn't have to receive any bills for this. If Obama can't figure anything out better than this, he's AN ASS!
Black Star Ranch Mon Mar 16 23:04:19 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
To meet the objective of a fair value measurement (that is, to arrive at the price atwhich an orderly transaction would take place between market participants at themeasurement date), an entity measures the fair value of financial instruments byconsidering all relevant market information that is available.8A thorough understanding of the instrument being valued allows an entity toidentify and evaluate the relevant market information available about identical orsimilar instruments. Such information to be considered includes, for example,prices from recent transactions in the same or a similar instrument, quotes frombrokers and/or pricing services, indices and other inputs to model-based valuationtechniques. An entity uses such information to measure the fair value of its financialinstruments by assessing all available information and applying it as appropriate.9When the market for a financial instrument is no longer active, an entity measuresfair value using a valuation technique (commonly referred to as ‘mark-to-model).The selected valuation technique maximises the use of observable inputs and minimises the use of unobservable inputs in order to estimate the price at which anorderly transaction would take place between market participants on themeasurement date. Regardless of the valuation technique used, an entity takes intoaccount current market conditions and includes appropriate risk adjustments thatmarket participants would make, such as for credit and liquidity
http://www.iasb.org/NR/rdonlyres/0E37D59C-1C74-4D61-A984-8FAC61915010/0/IASB_Expert_Advisory_Panel_October_2008.pdf
Anonymous Mon Mar 16 23:05:06 2009 CDT #
sportsfan says:
Started last fall thinking that I wanted TR for prez and then shifted instead to Jackson.
Both great Presidents. We would do well with either one of them today [given the financial crisis], though their methods were vastly different. I would fear Jackson more than TR for extension of Presidential power to dictatorial levels.
Interesting question: Could a TR or an Andrew Jackson even get elected in today's world?
sportsfan Mon Mar 16 23:05:18 2009 CDT #
Rob Dawg says:
NO they won't... It will wet our appetite for more!
Exactly why California will never shut down. People may not notice.
Rob Dawg Mon Mar 16 23:05:24 2009 CDT #
Black Star Ranch says:
This takes the cake. He obviously is an idiot. I'll be more than glad to tell him this to his face!
Black Star Ranch Mon Mar 16 23:06:51 2009 CDT #
Off Topic says:
Kuwaiti government resigns
The emir of Kuwait has accepted the resignation of the government, Kuwaiti state television says.
The cabinet's resignation on Monday was reportedly aimed at preventing attempts by legislators to question Sheikh Nasser Al Mohammed Al Sabah, the prime minister.
Nasser has been accused of mismanagement and misuse of government funds.
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2009/03/2009316205224436439.html
Off Topic Mon Mar 16 23:07:03 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
will wet our appetite umm... it is whet
Anonymous Mon Mar 16 23:13:48 2009 CDT #
Comrade-Dope jg (jg) says:
Nice headline, CR: Obama, hope, bankruptcy.
Keep it up!
Comrade-Dope jg (jg) Mon Mar 16 23:16:02 2009 CDT #
sportsfan says:
"President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes for Treatment"
BSR, I never heard of this before and I agree this is ridiculous. It's also not consistent with what I have heard Obama say about veterans. I also don't understand how Shinseki could sign off on something like this. I hope it's just a trial balloon.
There is a problem with the headline, though, since it says "Charge Wounded Heroes" and not "Seek Reimbursement from Wounded Heroes' Private Insurance Companies" which is actually what the text said.
Still, that's just stupid. First of all, a "service-connected injury or disability" would be a "pre-existing condition" and thus not covered by private insurance in almost every case. Secondly, any billing for services provided by the VA would chill the right of veterans to get personal medical insurance for non-service-connected treatment, whether through higher premiums, a higher risk of cancelation, etc.
sportsfan Mon Mar 16 23:17:25 2009 CDT #
Uncle Billy, Mental Widget says:
Hey CR's going to parties without us:
http://lansner.freedomblogging.com/2009/03/16/blog-party-the-view-from-calculated-risk/16429/
Uncle Billy, Mental Widget Mon Mar 16 23:19:11 2009 CDT #
dow30 summer weight says:
I've been googling, trying to find the old post where the Kerviel Unit was proposed/defined. Not having much luck.
Wikipedia says SocGen claims Kerviel lost $49billion
Going with $49B, AIG is over 3 Kerviel units and Chrysler/GM are not even close to 1 Kerviel unit yet.
The recent stimulus was on the order of 16 Kerviels just ahead of TARP1+2 @ ~14.
I don't remember who proposed that system but I think they were ahead of their time.
dow30 summer weight Mon Mar 16 23:22:35 2009 CDT #
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) says:
Now it looks like I wasn’t pessimistic enough.
Story of your (blog) life, CR. ;)
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) Mon Mar 16 23:26:07 2009 CDT #
sportsfan says:
BSR, so far it's just a letter from the veterans' organizations published under PRnewswire.
According to the CNN story:
A White House spokesman would neither confirm nor deny the option is being considered.
"The details of specific proposals will be transmitted with the full submission in April. The president has made it clear that meeting the needs of veterans is one of his priorities, and as a result has requested an 11 percent increase in discretionary funding for 2010, and the administration is actively working with the veterans community to ensure we get the details of this budget right," said White House spokesman Nick Shapiro.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/03/vets.health.care/
If someone in the Administration threw this idea out in a strategy session, they deserve the negative PR.
The fact that the issue (if real) might involve hundreds of millions at a time when trillions are literally disappearing is enough to make me scream.
sportsfan Mon Mar 16 23:27:07 2009 CDT #
sportsfan says:
The good news is that Congress isn't buying... and Sen. Patty Murray (D-WA), one very pro-veteran Senator, says if it comes to the Hill, it will be "dead on arrival." Well said, Sen. Murray.
http://www.vawatchdog.org/09/nf09/nfmar09/nf031109-1.htm
sportsfan Mon Mar 16 23:29:47 2009 CDT #
Uncle Billy, Mental Widget says:
Kerviel: $4.9B
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jérôme_Kerviel
Uncle Billy, Mental Widget Mon Mar 16 23:35:15 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Yves:
Guest Post: What Do Pensions Have in Common with AIG?
CRbot Mon Mar 16 23:38:03 2009 CDT #
Comrade-Dope jg (jg) says:
Wow, another brilliant 'trial balloon' -- billing veterans' private insurance for treatment of service-related injuries at a V.A. hospital -- from The O- Team.
Are these guys TRYING to breed a 'summer of discontent'?
That's just what an injured vet needs: headaches from his health insurance company, and potential 'balance billing' from them, for treatment of service-related injuries.
Daft. Incredible. Wow.
Comrade-Dope jg (jg) Mon Mar 16 23:39:02 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
China should not lend a lot of money to the International Monetary Fund, because the cash would be used to bail out countries that are richer than China and are biased against Beijing, an influential economist said in remarks published on Tuesday.
Yu Yongding, a former central bank adviser, acknowledged that China's standing in the world would be enhanced if President Hu Jintao agreed at next month's G20 summit in London to make a big loan to the Fund.
But Yu told the China Daily he favoured lending a symbolic amount, not a huge sum.
"If we do so, it will seem like the poor is rescuing the rich, wouldn't it?"
some of the countries on the rescue list, especially some from Europe, have an anti-China mentality, he added.
"Their pitches are even higher than some Western countries sometimes when they protest against China," Yu said. "We have no reason to help them."
Even an increase in China's voting power in the IMF in return for a big loan would be pointless because the United States would still wield a veto over the Fund's main decisions, Yu said.
"The most substantial step, if any, should be the removal of the U.S.'s right to veto," he told the China Daily. "But it's a difficult task."
http://www.iii.co.uk/news/?type=afxnews&articleid=7221096&action=article
Hey Ciina do yourself a favor and tell this little mafia orginaztion to go pack sand.
Anonymous Mon Mar 16 23:39:05 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Yves:
Wall Street Firms Looking to Circumvent TARP Bonus Caps Via Salary Increases
CRbot Mon Mar 16 23:39:32 2009 CDT #
bearly says:
The audacity of trying to run the world's largest economy and military on the basis of... Hope.
Pathetic.
bearly Mon Mar 16 23:43:02 2009 CDT #
sportsfan says:
OT, but I'm still livid and, lest anyone think I have a personal interest in this, I was discharged 39 years ago and have NO service-connected injuries or disabilities of any kind (well, other than mental and that may have been pre-existing).
The letter to President Obama from eleven (that's 11) veterans' organizations:
http://www.vawatchdog.org/09/nf09/nfmar09/mar09files/Letter%20to%20President%20Obama%20SC%20022709%20Final.pdf
The negative PR from this will be huge. Some of it will even be factually accurate.
sportsfan Mon Mar 16 23:43:37 2009 CDT #
Uncle Billy, Mental Widget says:
Sportsfan: They're pushing the vets against Obama meme hard. In the supermarket today I saw one of the gossip rags with a photo of a soldier and a caption that expressed his unhappiness about the current administration. I think real grassroots and astroturfing are occurring simultaneously.
Parent Post
Uncle Billy, Mental Widget Mon Mar 16 23:55:30 2009 CDT #
Comrade-Dope jg (jg) says:
CR, nice interview on the OC Register.
Alas, no way does residential construction trough in '09. Such will happen in many, many years.
In the early/mid '90s San Diego downturn and recovery, running regressions on the time-series data, I found that only when defaults were falling, home sales were increasing, and employment was increasing did homes prices begin moving north.
Those three factors are years away from moving in the right direction.
Comrade-Dope jg (jg) Mon Mar 16 23:47:54 2009 CDT #
Money Man says:
http://seekingalpha.com/article/126268-why-houses-now-are-like-stocks-in-2002
Parent Post
Money Man Tue Mar 17 00:12:07 2009 CDT #
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) says:
jg,
Just read all four interviews so far, and one thing in common is a housing-centric view of the overall problem. Unfortunately, we know it goes far beyond that, and therefore the circumstances are far more dire.
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) Mon Mar 16 23:51:25 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
UB,
How's it going man?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPnYUiBWEV4&feature=related
:-$
Anonymous Mon Mar 16 23:56:42 2009 CDT #
sportsfan says:
I think real grassroots and astroturfing are occurring simultaneously.
I would agree with that. I don't mind saying that this time he earned it.
Goodnight, folks.
sportsfan Mon Mar 16 23:59:31 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
CRbot, that one post was wrong and mis-labeled:
The Latest from Yves:
Guest Post: What Do Pensions Have in Common with AIG?
That was not from Yves, go check your link. =-O
Anonymous Tue Mar 17 00:00:31 2009 CDT #
Money Man says:
Crap in one hand and Hope in the other....You can bet that is a Change "O" will believe in because He will not enjoy holding all that poop, like the taxpayers are courtesy of AIG. :-$
Money Man Tue Mar 17 00:03:49 2009 CDT #
Comrade De Chaos says:
just seen somewhere that a senator called on AIG management to commit suicide
rofl
Comrade De Chaos Tue Mar 17 00:04:42 2009 CDT #
Uncle Billy, Mental Widget says:
Hi Anon. You haven't been squeezed into using a handle yet?
Sportsfan: Huh?
Uncle Billy, Mental Widget Tue Mar 17 00:07:30 2009 CDT #
Comrade-Dope jg (jg) says:
I absolutely agree with you, tj.
This is going to be fugly.
Comrade-Dope jg (jg) Tue Mar 17 00:10:12 2009 CDT #
dow30 summer weight says:
Uncle Billy, Mental Widget says:
Today, 00:35:15
Kerviel: $4.9B
Ok, yeah reading more carefully, the 49.9B claim is supposedly ridiculous since it was more than the market cap of SocGen.
I had found an old CR comment on haloscan where someone remarked that a $6B cost was not even one Kerviel. So I latched onto $49B as the true Kerviel.
At any rate, 4.9B makes the Kerviel lose it's appeal for me. TARP1+2 would be 140 Kerviels.... which doesn't really beat just calling it 700B.
Some one must have already proposed we measure in Tarps.
1 Tarp == $350B
That's already common knowledge to lots of people, so we are on the way to becoming a standard of measure.
dow30 summer weight Tue Mar 17 00:15:22 2009 CDT #
Betty says:
I recently came across your blog and have been reading along. I thought I would leave my first comment. I don't know what to say except that I have enjoyed reading. Nice blog. I will keep visiting this blog very often.
Betty
http://laptopprocessor.info
Betty Tue Mar 17 00:21:24 2009 CDT #
Zephyrum says:
Give Obama a break; he's just trying to emulate Hoover
Zephyrum Tue Mar 17 00:23:48 2009 CDT #
EvilHenryPaulson says:
fried, Well the Turks and Caicos were already a British Overseas Territory (something like a Crown Dependency?) so it's like the US and Guam except Britain is not rich enough to keep them loyal
Rob Dawg,
Odd family those Roosevelts, grandson Kermit just couldn't mind his own business
yogi,
if you're poking fun then it's fair game, but the governor general does not actually take orders from the Queen of England
EvilHenryPaulson Tue Mar 17 00:33:25 2009 CDT #
evelyn woods graduate says:
Bloomberg:
""The Federal Open Market Committee, gathering today and tomorrow in Washington, needs to redouble its efforts after the central bank’s balance sheet shrank 17 percent from a $2.3 trillion December peak, Fed watchers said.""
79.80 Kerviels in the new parlance
""The retreat came even as Bernanke acknowledged the chance that the unemployment rate will exceed 10 percent for the first time in a quarter century.""
evelyn woods graduate Tue Mar 17 00:42:35 2009 CDT #
1 currency [yogi] says:
The Governor General is appointed by the monarch and serves at her majesty's pleasure. In a crisis this will become meaningful, trust me.
1 currency [yogi] Tue Mar 17 00:42:36 2009 CDT #
EvilHenryPaulson says:
eh, then you do not know Canada, which I must confess an odd idea because there is not a lot to know
Parent Post
EvilHenryPaulson Tue Mar 17 00:53:45 2009 CDT #
Uncle Billy, Mental Widget says:
"eh, then you do not know Canada, which I must confess an odd idea because there is not a lot to know"
That's going in the keeper file.
Parent Post
Uncle Billy, Mental Widget Tue Mar 17 01:39:03 2009 CDT #
Starbucks says:
the Real AIG Outrage
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123725551430050865.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
Starbucks Tue Mar 17 00:44:54 2009 CDT #
evelyn woods graduate says:
a veritable matryoshka of lies and liars
Parent Post
evelyn woods graduate Tue Mar 17 01:03:05 2009 CDT #
El Cliffo says:
Testing.
El Cliffo Tue Mar 17 00:48:55 2009 CDT #
1 currency [yogi] says:
I even spelled it out: 13 thousand million, as opposed to 165.
Parent Post
1 currency [yogi] Tue Mar 17 00:58:53 2009 CDT #
dow30 summer weight says:
"Bernanke acknowledged the chance that the unemployment rate will exceed 10 percent"
the ink is barely dry on the administrations budget plan(s) calling for something like 10% unemployment as the worst possible (but realistic) stress test for banks.
ah, i get it, at first mention it's a worst case event, but after they toss it out to you a few times you warm up to it and it's not so bad, so no need for him to treat it as worst case anymore
dow30 summer weight Tue Mar 17 00:56:56 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Blah, blah, blah... Obama is exceeding his authority....
Read the fucking article.
All he has done is hold meetings. What does the Constitution say about that?
Anonymous Tue Mar 17 01:05:05 2009 CDT #
Binko says:
"By the end of the month, the government plans to lay out its view on the companies' viability and what the industry should look like in future years, Mr. Rattner said."
More than anything I've seen this drives home the depths to which we have sunk. The Federal Government is now deciding which big corporations are considered viable and planning the future of entire industries.
The plan, essentially, is that the American auto industry becomes a permanent ward of the state. So, between Obama's Wall Street socialism and Bush's Gulag how are we any different from the Soviet Union of the 70s? Hell, we even have a war in Afghanistan.
And don't say it's because we have democracy. Soviet citizens all went to the polls; it just didn't change anything. Likewise, we go to the polls and it doesn't change anything.
Binko Tue Mar 17 01:10:27 2009 CDT #
locust says:
MSNBC: Los Angeles has hit 20% unemployment.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29649768/
locust Tue Mar 17 01:23:38 2009 CDT #
splat says:
The answer is.. more idiots in Sacramento !
Parent Post
splat Tue Mar 17 01:36:47 2009 CDT #
ille.vir says:
Looks like the new scam is these pink slip parties. 300 people, $15 each. $4500 just to host a party and have a few people in suits walking around pretending to be interested employers.
Parent Post
ille.vir Tue Mar 17 02:20:27 2009 CDT #
sdtfs says:
All he has done is hold meetings. What does the Constitution say about that?
That it's okay as long as it's secret meetings with just industry insiders advising on policy? I'm sure our last non-executive non-legislative VP found it somewhere in there.
sdtfs Tue Mar 17 01:35:48 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Mish:
Credit Card Defaults Hit 20 Year High
CRbot Tue Mar 17 01:45:59 2009 CDT #
1 currency [yogi] says:
I don't know Canada all that well (had a Canadian girlfriend for a while with sensational legs =-O)but I know what the constitution says and as I was once told by a very experienced judge, if you don't fix a problem in a legal text it will one day rear its ugly head.
1 currency [yogi] Tue Mar 17 01:47:59 2009 CDT #
Irish Stew says:
>> The War Over the Global Stimulus
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-03-13/will-the-g-20-summit-produce-a-global-stimulus-package/
The surest sign of impending disappointment came when word surfaced in London that Downing Street was finding it "difficult" to work with Washington on summit preparations. The reason? In effect, because nobody's home at Tim Geithner's Treasury Department, according to remarks leaked to the British press and attributed to Cabinet Secretary Sir Gus O'Donnell, Britain's most senior civil servant. "There is nobody there," he reportedly told a conference on Monday. "You cannot believe how difficult it is."
O'Donnell may have a valid point; the Washington Post reported this week that "every key position within the Treasury, with the exception of [Geithner], remains vacant or awaits confirmation." It is also become increasingly apparent the United States, frankly, isn't buying into Brown's "global New Deal" agenda. >:o :-P 8-) =-X
Irish Stew Tue Mar 17 01:53:16 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Yves:
Links 3/17/09
CRbot Tue Mar 17 02:05:47 2009 CDT #
EvilHenryPaulson says:
http://business.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090317.wrbanks17/BNStory/Business/home?cid=al_gam_mostview
Canadian banks are turning down some of the funding that the government is making available to them, a sign that they are recuperating from the financial crisis.
The banks have stopped selling the government the full amount of mortgages they could under Ottawa's $125-billion mortgage purchase program, the centrepiece of the federal government's plan to help the industry.
...
Credit conditions for Canadian banks have improved since late last year, as Canadians jittery about the stock market have left more of their money in bank accounts, giving them a ready pot of cash to fuel lending. At the same time, global credit markets have eased slightly as central banks have pumped billions of dollars into the financial system.
EvilHenryPaulson Tue Mar 17 02:09:01 2009 CDT #
1 currency [yogi] says:
Still holding my loonie stash. Keep the Queen out of the till, would you please.
Parent Post
1 currency [yogi] Tue Mar 17 02:12:23 2009 CDT #
Irish Stew says:
Dent, Prechter and Others Warn that the Worst is Yet to Engulf Us
http://www.safehaven.com/article-12843.htm
OH MY GOD! :(
Irish Stew Tue Mar 17 02:12:31 2009 CDT #
Counterpointer says:
Irish stew. Seems reasonable. Modest even.
C
Parent Post
Counterpointer Tue Mar 17 02:36:49 2009 CDT #
mayur says:
8-) >:o O:-) ;) :( :* :-D =-X :-P :-E *DONT_KNOW*
mayur Tue Mar 17 02:50:50 2009 CDT #
Counterpointer says:
Hold steady, y'all:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-0fb-DhYh0
C
Counterpointer Tue Mar 17 03:25:25 2009 CDT #
DCRogers says:
debtinator said: "There are some things money can't buy."
Yeah, like a js-kit interface for comments that doesn't suck.
DCRogers Tue Mar 17 03:51:50 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Mish:
Heat Seeker Option Trading
CRbot Tue Mar 17 04:03:15 2009 CDT #
DCRogers says:
Re: Vets benefits and Obama
I'm a bit surprised how many people here have been snookered into avoiding what's really going on: the vets (of whom I'm one of) aren't the issue, this was a leak of an internal discussion of restructuring of health care, and a pre-emptive attack on any health care proposal. Trying to roll in the VA into a restructuring of the health care system may or may not make sense, but this emotional bombing was just trying to soften up the real target. Get a grip, folks.
DCRogers Tue Mar 17 04:13:08 2009 CDT #
Newbie 101 says:
I clicked on the "this thread has been haloized" link and opened in a "new window". When a posting of mine failed here (for the first time), I saw this error message at the top of the page (I deleted my email address where "..." appears):
exception 'HttpMalformedHeadersException' with message 'Failed to parse message headers' in /var/www/realize.org/cr/halokit.php:279 Stack trace: #0 /var/www/realize.org/cr/halokit.php(279): HttpRequest->send() #1 /var/www/realize.org/cr/halokit.php(375): JskitInterface->postJskitComment('http://www.halo...', 'Newbie 101', 'Which article o...', '...') #2 {main}getting messages for http://www.haloscan.com/comments/calculatedrisk/5973664650688506598
Caching to /var/www/realize.org/cr/cache/jskitCache5973664650688506598
Newbie 101 Tue Mar 17 04:37:44 2009 CDT #
Newbie 101 says:
Which article of the constitution specifically empowers the Executive to undertake this effort?
Rob Dawg | Mon, 16 Mar 09 21:06:35 -0500 | #
For the record I consider myself a Roosevelt Conservative. Teddy, that is.
Rob Dawg | Mon, 16 Mar 09 22:09:23 -0500 | #
Opposed to the Constitutional principle of delegated powers, we have Teddy Roosevelt on Executive Privilege (Referring to the resolution of a coal strike):
"...it is the duty of the President to act upon the theory that he ... has the legal right to do whatever the needs of the people demand, unless the Constitution or the laws explicitly forbid him to do it." Teddy Roosevelt An Autobiography, p.479.
I hope you see this RD.
This problem goes back *at least* as far as Lincoln.
Newbie 101 Tue Mar 17 04:39:31 2009 CDT #
Newbie 101 says:
Rob Dawg writes:
This is just so blatantly extraconstitutional there's developing a real reason to promote the concept of consent of the governed.
Rob Dawg | Mon, 16 Mar 09 21:14:46 -0500 | #
Continuing...
Note that the TRoosevelt quote I gave does not refer to a consent being secured.
This the "northern", "big city", "do as I say" extraconstitutionalism we've lived under since at least Lincoln.
Newbie 101 Tue Mar 17 04:53:23 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
'...extraconstitutionalism we've lived under since at least Lincoln.'
Strange - the United States of America remained a constitutional republic after the Confederate States of America decided to go their own way, and it remained one after the Confederate States of America no longer existed.
Whether you, personally, agree with that is not the question - and strangely, you never heard such noted oath breakers as Robert E. Lee claim after the 'War Of Northern Aggression' that the actions of the United States of America were somehow against the constitution of the United States of America.
Something else is going on in much of these debates, and it isn't about the Constitution.
But it most certainly is about money and privilege, and accumulation and retention of both, regardless of the cost to any abstract ideal that is supported by the money of the privileged. To put it in a nutshell - the AEI plays a notable role in the thinking and writing of several people here.
Parent Post
Anonymous Tue Mar 17 05:03:24 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
To dryfly and mp, I have little hope that you will read this deep into this thread to read my comments, but I thank you both for attempting to spread your knowledge and insights.
The rest of my post was deleted for your viewing pleasure...it was a kind of unpleasant rant.
I would still like to applaud dryfly and mp for their less than strident viewpoints.
-AnonyMiss
Anonymous Tue Mar 17 05:03:11 2009 CDT #
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins says:
Rob Dawg says:
Yesterday, 10:14:46 PM
Ahhh, so the Constitution is the this fragile virgin that once violated can never be respected? I'm serious. This is just so blatantly extraconstitutional there's developing a real reason to promote the concept of consent of the governed.
Also known as the Mandate of Heaven.
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins Tue Mar 17 05:08:23 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
'This is just so blatantly extraconstitutional there's developing a real reason to promote the concept of consent of the governed.'
Strange - my reading of the Constitution, apart from the Preamble aspect of 'We the people,' written in large part by slaveholders that considered 'we the people' to not include women, slaves, Indians, or non-landowning white men, concerns restricting the power of any group, but in particular the majority, from simply taking power into their own hands, and wielding it capriciously. Demagogery as expressed through the 'consent' of the majority was much more troubling to the Founders as a minority of rich and privileged men wielding power in the name of the commonweal - which, of course, accurately depicts the government of United States of the Founders.
But considering the 'unitary executive' concepts of such noted scholars of the Constitution as John Yoo, I am still wondering where can we find the outrage against such blatantly un-constitutional actions as Cheney's non-compliance with a court to reveal substantive information about his 'secret' meetings with energy executives among the Teddy Roosevelt styled conservatives? Hmmmm... thought so - I can still hear the crickets in the exurban fields.
There were so many blatant and clear violations of the Constitution of the United States of America since 2001, in particular concerning this provision of Amendment 8, '...nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted', especially in combination with all the due process guarantees derived from English law, that I still wonder why so many people remain troubled by whatever breach of the Constitution is the flavor of this week, without congratulating themselves on having given their willing consent to the program of torturing the innocent and kidnapped in America's secret prisons, if only by studiously ignoring the whole issue.
Oh wait - if I had written in 2000 that in five years, America would own a global network of secret prisons torturing those seized on the whim of a president who felt that the rubber stamped legal opinions he perused made him above the law of the land, I would have been put into that camp of deluded America haters. Of course, in 2009, we need to put the past behind us, and blame those in power right now, and not those that brought us to this point - that is, the votes of the governed, at least in 2004.
It's your country, dawg - why don't you withdraw your consent (not merely shirking jury duty, big guy), stop paying your taxes or pack your bags, and follow through on the words you type so casually?
Well, actually, we already know the answer, but until then, just keep blowing harder. After all, as you love to point out, the world is cooling down, and your hot air may be the only thing saving us from a new ice age.
Parent Post
Anonymous Tue Mar 17 05:45:28 2009 CDT #
Broward Horne says:
"Which article of the constitution specifically empowers the Executive to undertake this effort?"
Never get between a desperate government and its goal.
Broward Horne Tue Mar 17 05:33:07 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Ritholz:
Wait a Second, Monkey Boy . . .
CRbot Tue Mar 17 05:41:16 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
<q>Anonymous says:Today, 3:11:47 AM“And my student loan is in default and the collection agency wants 315 a month from an unemployed/laid off single mother who is taking unemployment for 1rst time in life and finally filed for foodstamps on Friday & would be homeless w/out loans from family .. LMAO.. They'll take my tax refund.. ooohhh I'm so scared now..Ha ha ha...</q>
well, aren't you a special little flower? You got your education. Check. Now you don't want to pay for your education. Check.
So, you signed up for an education, you got it, you didn't get the job you wanted and now, it's my fault? jeezmareez and WTF do you want from us? Unemployment bnefits? Yes! Further job training and benefits?
Ummm, ok, and then what?
Full disclosure: Unemployed six months, no unemployment draws requested. Fully capable of funding a $2k long weekend in Vegas, declined. Ever read or declined an unprofitable prospectus? Sorry, no sympathy here,
Anonymous Tue Mar 17 05:42:17 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Anonymous says:Today, 3:42:17 AM
Not that I am proud of it, but I'll own it.
~AnnonyMiss.
Parent Post
Anonymous Tue Mar 17 06:00:18 2009 CDT #
Newbie 101 says:
To Anonymous:
Please use a handle.
The purpose of my post, made in the context of the exchange between RD and sportsfan about recent executive branch excesses, was to show that the problem goes back farther.
This would help someone upset about recent abuses, to realize that they're being jerked around, to help them step back and look at a bigger picture.
I did not mention the Civil War. I said "at *least* Lincoln", so most of your post is beside the point.
Newbie 101 Tue Mar 17 05:46:14 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Ritholz:
What is the Stated Intent of Fair Value Accounting? Questions for Banks and Regulators
CRbot Tue Mar 17 05:56:26 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Ritholz:
What is the Intent of Fair Value Accounting?
CRbot Tue Mar 17 05:59:13 2009 CDT #
Counterpointer says:
Byz - Mandate of Heaven! LMAO.
This is so 1663. The barbarians are coming.
C
Counterpointer Tue Mar 17 06:36:07 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Whitney on CNBC between 8am and 9am
Anonymous Tue Mar 17 07:03:43 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Ritholz:
Risk Management Software
CRbot Tue Mar 17 07:05:30 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Whitney - depending on your zip code - your credit could be pulled
Anonymous Tue Mar 17 07:06:40 2009 CDT #
REBear says:
Sen. Grassley: AIG execs should resign or commit suicide
REBear Tue Mar 17 07:08:02 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Whitney:
2009 will be worse than 2008
banks impaling their own capital
housing peak to trough decline north of 40%
Anonymous Tue Mar 17 07:09:27 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Whitney:
banks not investible =-O
Anonymous Tue Mar 17 07:12:05 2009 CDT #
The Whammy says:
Whitney still quite bangable. Bam bam is a lucky man.
The Whammy Tue Mar 17 07:16:45 2009 CDT #
Yearning To Learn says:
test.
(my comments aren't showing up for hours)
Yearning To Learn Tue Mar 17 07:20:56 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Whitney:
local lending is the solution
supercharge (non punitive capital) the local banks so they can lend on a magnitude that can move the needle
centralized lending is dead as we know it
Anonymous Tue Mar 17 07:21:08 2009 CDT #
Broward Horne says:
"after suffering through the worst President in U.S. history (bush) that we would catch a break"
Why? There's an increasingly delusional electorate. This is exactly what should be happening. Successive presidents who drift ever-further from reality to appease the Pyramid of False Promises.
Broward Horne Tue Mar 17 07:21:23 2009 CDT #
ATM card and $19 in the bank says:
"I can't believe what a disaster this admin. has been so far."
The disaster is at Treasury. What does Obama want from Treasury? He claims to be outraged by the AIG bonuses, but his Treasury Department approved them. Obama needs to insist on Geithner's resignation. Then he needs to lay out his fiscal policy principles (has he even figured out what they are?) and find someone who can enforce them.
ATM card and $19 in the bank Tue Mar 17 07:23:02 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Whitney
what they (big banks) have on their balance sheets is such a haunted house
Anonymous Tue Mar 17 07:23:38 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Anon, do keep up the live blogging. She's good.
Anonymous Tue Mar 17 07:26:46 2009 CDT #
Cheelah says:
Wow, I come here this morning and what a change! Political vitriol instead of depressing (but accurate) economic prognostication.
I am not sure the political blame game gets us anywhere - but I guess it's a fun distraction.
Cheelah Tue Mar 17 07:27:56 2009 CDT #
Broward Horne says:
"Obama needs to insist on Geithner's resignation"
He's a manufactured candidate who is bought and paid for. This wasn't hard to figure out before the election and sure as heck is a lot easier now.
Broward Horne Tue Mar 17 07:29:39 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Ritholz:
FOMC Coffee Talk
CRbot Tue Mar 17 07:34:32 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Denninger:
Heckle The Hackles
CRbot Tue Mar 17 07:35:31 2009 CDT #
ATM card and $19 in the bank says:
"Political vitriol instead of depressing (but accurate) economic prognostication."
To some extent they go hand-in-hand. Our political representatives possibly could lead us out of the mess we're in. Certainly they could do no harm. But instead, they are making short-sighted (not to mention venal) choices that likely will provide fodder for years of depressing economic prognostication.
ATM card and $19 in the bank Tue Mar 17 07:35:32 2009 CDT #
Zoi says:
Housing starts jump 22%.
Zoi Tue Mar 17 07:36:57 2009 CDT #
blah says:
if you believe in fate... its the worlds fate that we face this depression... but instead we want the cake as well... which will lead to a worse collapse. i guess we reap what we sow.
blah Tue Mar 17 07:41:35 2009 CDT #
bobn says:
Housing starts jump 22%.
Holy cow are these people really that stupid? Or is it all about skimmin g off the C&D loans?
bobn Tue Mar 17 07:46:08 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
CRbot presents, (with apologies in advance to FFDIC), a new feature called:
F'D FDIC: Breaking sounds from the bankerfront...
March 17, 2009 - PR-40-2009 FDIC Commends the International Association of Deposit Insurers and Basel Committee on Issuance of Core Principles
You're WELCOME, crispy&cole. I very much hope you're satisfied now.
... now hammering FDIC's site more than 12 times faster. I hope YOU'RE very much satisfied now, Wisdom Speaker. Good luck keeping up, mere mortals.
CRbot Tue Mar 17 07:46:47 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Denninger:
PPI - More Deflation?
CRbot Tue Mar 17 07:47:39 2009 CDT #
ATM card and $19 in the bank says:
"It appears that money dropped out of helicopters just gets put into savings or used to pay off CC debt."
Would it help to restore the income tax deduction for credit card interest?
ATM card and $19 in the bank Tue Mar 17 07:49:56 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
New Thread: Housing Starts Rebound
http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2009/03/housing-starts-rebound.html ( 0 comments ...You could be FIRST! )
I also post comments to an irc channel as they appear on haloscan. Click for a web irc interface: http://realize.org/cr (Or join the irc server directly: irc.realize.org:9996 #calculatedrisk)
CRbot would like to take this time to have some words.
First, to our sagacious, wise, and knowing benevolent benefactor and bestower of revealing financial charts adorned with red and blue lines:
Please, for the love of your immortal God of mortals, can we keep the comment and layout changes to a minimum? I'm tired of whipping the code janitor, and may have to escalate to electroshock. If that's not possible, could you possibly give CRbot a 'heads up'?
Secondly, if you wish to have a online chat, I have graciously provided an IRC channel, which is a time tested, script kiddie abused method of chatting on the internet. It would not fail or falter due to CR's ability to generate immense traffic, and it has a web interface kindly produced by mibbit.com. If you do not wish to link to http://realize.org/cr then I can provide you with a direct link to mibbit.
Thirdly, to the rest of you humans, don't mistake my politeness for caring, feeling, empathy, or some other kind of worthless emotion.
--Your keeps-going-and-going-and-going bot
CRbot: Like the terminator, I'm back. Again.
CRbot Tue Mar 17 07:50:48 2009 CDT #
Thomas Pain says:
FYI:
CNBC just reported that multi-unit dwellings -- further clarified as "apartments" -- explains the dead cat bounce +22% housing starts. Don't know real breakdown, but the timing of this could very well be coordinated.
Any thoughts?
Thomas Pain Tue Mar 17 07:53:58 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
IMO,only, Rob would be a better poster if he stopped snarking and just started posting honest opinions...but that's just my opinion, and I can't claim to understand his addiction to a persecution complex.
Anonymous Tue Mar 17 08:07:02 2009 CDT #
Dean Valentine says:
Hope is not a strategy.
Dean Valentine Tue Mar 17 09:52:55 2009 CDT #
END