No, really, what we need is a government awareness campaign for these bonds. Something like this:
http://www.library.northwestern.edu/govinfo/collections/wwii-posters/img...
- Nemo
Because there's no limit to the amount of times that these toxic assets should be allowed to hurt ordinary Americans.
----
"no one is pricing in low, mid teens unemployment in any of their assumptions." - Meredith Whitney
Oh man, if they do that, the zombie banks will NEVER be killed. I can hear the arguments now: "We can't preprivatize (insert bank here), think of all of those poor taxpayers that we convinced to buy bailout bonds, we have to protect their investment!"
I would buy some if they were only to finance banks post pre-privatization.
This is going to go over like a pork roast at a Bar Mitzvah
The basic idea has more merit than some of the others, but there's a big difference between buying bonds to help put down the Nazis and buying bonds to pay off losses from gambling rackets and ponzi schemes.
When you buy gold, you invest with HITLER.
Lloyd Blankfein's wiki reads that he started out at Goldman as a "gold bar and coin salesman."
Seriously, you've got to be kidding me.
The entire premise is flawed, so they think that if J6P gets in on the action, then he'll/she'll go for it and make it acceptable. Are they going to give these individual funds the same backing that the big guys are going to get?
Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?
What a bunch of cynical whoring pricks.
homedad43
If they make the interest payments tax free, that would be like a tax cut...right?
Nostrovia,
Oh man, if they do that, the zombie banks will NEVER be killed.
This is the biggest hostage crisis in history:
Every financial institution is claiming that their failure will collapse the economy if they don't get taxpayer money.
Every businesses fails given enough time.
too big to fail = guaranteed systemic collapse
Yeah, howsabout "Whorebonds".
"Support the National Effort! Buy Whorebonds Now!"
homedad43
Why wait for the government to take it from you?
Buy Bailout Bonds!
Your going to loose the money anyway.
Nostrovia,
Shorting bailout funds is un-American!
There's plenty of sh*t sandwiches for everyone!
Dig in !
Why wait for the government to take it from you?
Buy Bailout Bonds!
Your going to loose the money anyway.
Nostrovia,
Why not get screwed on your own terms if you know you're going to get screwed?
Or maybe just pack up your wealth and your business and go to Singapore.
CR - A hattip is necessary...this was posted in the comment section awhile ago...it was not me..but it was a great uncover
That said - I'd vote for a 100 Year tips bond offering! I'd bite, fur sure; so long as its not in USDs!
Am I the only one who considers this proposal extremely cynical?
ac,
Nostrovia,
See this is the essence of innovation. Why not call them Obama bonds? Can't wait for the road trip. Think Queen Elizabeth will hug everyone too?
Shorting bailout funds is un-American!
But at least the buyers of the bonds could make some return by collecting interest from short sellers.
It wouldn't be a complete loss.
From Paulsen's bazooka to Geithner's BB gun
Let them try launching it and watch the (lack of) public interest
I would rather buy used lottery tickets!
They do know we can already lend the banks our money? And we are choosing not to?
From Across the curve:
Corporate bonds are "en fuego",tambien. bank and finance paper as well as industrial are 5 basis points to 10 basis points tighter. TMT paper is 5 basis points tighter.
Bond Girl - Alabama will not win. They have a hotline into the Oval Office. O is all over this to make JPM whole.
Ohh, and let's start the CDS action now. So much cheaper to naked hedge than outright purchase.
I'll take a CDS on Citi's bailout bond instead
Bond Girl
Hard to believe this still goes on, 15 years after Orange County, isn't it?
Taxpayers investments into BB bonds will be guaranteed by the FDIC, who in turn will be guaranteed by the taxpayers
They TARPed bomber comes!!! Save your Kids with Bailout Bonds!! The best Bond Aid ever!!!!!!
They shouldn't win (in this instance). They sold an option contract and received a premium. They shouldn't be able to nullify it just because it worked against them in the long run.
There must be some terrific tax action too. It's the only the bonds work. Tax avoidance was the essence of LTCM.
Taxpayers investments into BB bonds will be guaranteed by the FDIC, who in turn will be guaranteed by the taxpayers
And wall street takes a pound of flesh at each transaction.
Let me guess, the outcome will be set up just so that the taxpayer suckers will still manage to help the banks win while they lose big time. If you werent getting screwed enough the first time around, now you can double dip! Woohoo
HAL : I'm afraid. I'm afraid, Dave. Dave, my mind is going. (CHONG : Dave's not here.)
MrM,
"Taxpayers investments into BB bonds will be guaranteed by the FDIC, who in turn will be guaranteed by the taxpayers "
Just thinking the same thing...
You owe it to yourself to buy Bail Out Bonds!
(No really, you do)
Nostrovia,
It's what the cool kids are doing.
Lets see if I understand this:
1. Banks get taxpayer money.
2. Banks create a bond and get paid a fee for service, upfront.
3. Banks sell the bonds and get a spread, upfront.
4. Taxpayers buy the bonds (net).
5. USG guarentees the bond w/ taxpayer money.
6. Taxpayers get interest on the bond from the taxes they have already paid.
Gosh - I love creative finance.
Here is another alternative view:
1. Banks need money.
2. The USG needs money.
3. Taxpayers need money.
4. Wipe off all debt and start again.
5. Everyone eats crow, depending on your appitite.
Fees are the only way to re-capitalize the financial sector. So, there must be fees and a liquid secondary market with banksters as market makers (running the profit from the bid/ask). This will save the financial sector!
HAL : I'm afraid. I'm afraid, Dave. Dave, my mind is going
lol +1
This must mean the banks need an awful lot of money.
i thought there were already Bail Bondsmen. King Stahlman in my area.
This means the financial sector is insolvent. Not a surprise given that TARP now covers insurance.
I am hopelessly behind when it comes to dead threads...
Bond Girl,
You think Munis will repeat P&G's lawsuit against BT? ( http://www.erisk.com/Learning/CaseStudies/BankersTrust.asp )
Alabama is looking at the initial legal authority to enter a swap right now, but we can't be that far from a major lawsuit based on broad terms?
also, re: your blog post about Cali taxable bonds.
Wow, gutsy. Or stupid. Like a junkie trying to snort cocaine they spilled onto a pile of asbestos. Just one more hit and I'll be good. I swear dude
Though I'd love the power to throw their asses into the trunk of my car if they "skipped" bail.
Kind of like Argentina, I guess. Currently, cleverly disguised as something patriotic.
"Nonetheless, the administration and executives in the financial industry are pushing to establish the investment funds, in part to counter swelling hostility against the financial industry."
Because, you know, throwing kerosine on a fire makes it go out.
What's a word for someone who is beyond tone deaf?
Nostrovia,
dd says "Fees are the only way to re-capitalize the financial sector"
I went to a bank yesterday to deposit a check in euros....there was a $25.00 handeling fees and a special "buy" rate on the dollar and a special "sell" rate on the euro. My deposit cost me $265.00 in fees and special currency conversion on a check for 9200 euros. Plus there is a 30 day hold on the certified check...30 days!!
(CHONG : Dave's not here.)
Open up man, I got the bonds! I think the securities regulators saw me, open up man.
If they go out at open market value in a private sale, why not?
"I assume PIMCO, BlackRock and others will charge minimal or no fees for individual investors."
Bonds which are fully FDIC leveraged will stay between PIMPCO and Salt rock. The less leveraged bonds will go to dopes who call themselves investors.
Barley,
We are following your alternative list in a way
This version of the super-SIV is different because it fleeces retail investors!
EHP,
I don't know. If there is another disruption in the credit markets, they'll be sitting on a pile of cash.
I think it will be very difficult in my case tp "counter swelling hostility against the financial industry". I overpaid a credit card and had a $13.50 CREDIT balance, whereupon the pigs levied a $1.50 "minimum finance charge". I called and got a check cut, closed the account. My hostility is still swelling...
"This means the financial sector is insolvent."
This means there is no money. But there is, it's in all your 401Ks and IRAs.
ROFLOL...................
"This is going to go over like a pork roast at a Bar Mitzvah"
. . . . . . . . . . It couldn't be said any better. +10
- - - - -
Black 
Ranch
Yep. More coming. Count on it. I anticipate a "pre-payment" payoff fee to pay the credit card in full. I
Don't they already have a way to bail out banks? It is called low-interest deposits.
Imagine people taking money out of deposits and investing them in these stupid bonds. So they would take really cheap funding out of the banks to exchange for more expensive funding. Real smart.
If they make the interest payments tax free, that would be like a tax cut...right?
Misean, states will apply sales taxes to BB bonds, which will more than make up for waiver of federal taxes on interest
From WSJ:
At least 10 states are considering some kind of major increase in sales or income taxes: Arizona, Connecticut, Delaware, Illinois, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Jersey, Oregon, Washington and Wisconsin. California and New York lawmakers already have agreed on multibillion-dollar tax increases that went into effect earlier this year.
Fiscal experts say more states are likely to try to raise tax revenue in coming months, especially once they tally the latest shortfalls from April 15 income-tax filings, often the biggest single source of funds for the 43 states that levy them.
The squeeze is especially severe in states hit hardest by the recession, such as Arizona, where sales-tax revenue has fallen by 10.5%, income-tax collections are down 15.7% this fiscal year, and the government faces a $3.4 billion budget gap next year. But such shortfalls are likely to be widespread; federal income-tax receipts from individuals have dropped more than 15% in the past six months, according to Congressional Budget Office estimates.
Obama has gotten into bed and is having you know what with Wall Street. Disgusting. He was supposed to get Wall Street's fangs out of the USA. He is letting it suck more blood, that's all. What a terrible choice he has turned out to be.
Bond Girl,
I wasn't thinking so much about them issuing taxable bonds, but that they were raising money for projects which ought to be reconsidered. If the money is not eligible for tax exempt status, it pretty much has to be discretionary spending
"What's a word for someone who is beyond tone deaf?"
Banker?
This just sounds like a joke. Can you imagine if the few people who haven't become completely jaded invested in these and lost 40%?
All the policies of the last two years seemed to be geared at creating a permanently cynical populous.
"Own a piece of this turd"
"We don't have enough of YOUR money, yet"
"Your already paying the tab, why not add a tip"
"Support US - pitchforks are so overrated"
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
This has to be the most idiotic idea I have heard in a very long time. And at this point , that is saying a lot. I am thoroughly convinced the Obama administration has no clue how the financial markets actually function.
Yes We Can Yes We Can Yes We Can Yes We Can Yes We Can Yes We Can...
This scheme reminds me of the French Revolution.
The revolution seized church property then handed it out to the peasantry. This way the peasant class was fully bought into the revolution. If the ancien regime took back power the peasant class would lose the land that had been handed to them.
Of course the land was actually worth something.
What kind of circular logic is this? Savers will be encouraged to buy bonds that will be used to save banks that have blown up the savings of those very savers?
More and more, it appears that Geithner, Bernanke and Summers believe in the financial equivalent of a perpetual motion machine: a perpetual wealth machine.
You know, just hook up a motor to a generator and wire it back to itself. It'll run forever! It'll power the world!
These guys need to go back and start with remedial physics and work their way up to control theory and nonlinear systems.
WTF.
Someone needs to revoke Bernanke's Course 14 degree.
April fools day was last week.
Hey if we bundle the bailout bonds into collaterized debt obligations and then buy some credit default swaps on them, then we can get a triple A rating and sell them back onto the market at a profit. Oh wait.....
I think I'll call 'em Graveyard Whistlers.
Nostrovia,
This has to be the most idiotic idea I have heard in a very long time.
What are you talking about? The people that will buy these are the same ones that purchased the Obama souvenir plates and the Obama gold coins. It's all in the marketing.
Bond Girl,
Don't be a spoil sport. This is obviously a satire piece, trying to one-up Serf Alan Greenspend's from last fall.
The idea is that these investments ... would give ordinary Americans a chance to profit from the bailouts that are being financed by their tax dollars
Plain as day ponzi scheme, must be to coincide with a milestone in Stanford's or Madoff's court cases
Kind of like Argentina, I guess. Currently, cleverly disguised as something patriotic.
For those who haven't seen it, this series about Argentina's economic collapse is quite interesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH6_i8zuffs&feature=PlayList&p=C46D4D71A0...
Especially disturbing is the appearance of a conspiracy between the banks and the government to loot the public (consistent with what some people I know from Argentina have told me).
According to my neighbor, money printing was the method used by the government to basically wipe out the wealth of the working classes there.
Members of the "elite" were warned ahead of time about money printing sprees.
Who could be dumb enough to invest in a bailout that will never work?
I think I solved the problem.
A toxic asset lottery.
Mr Beach,
"More and more, it appears that Geithner, Bernanke and Summers believe in the financial equivalent of a perpetual motion machine: a perpetual wealth machine.
You know, just hook up a motor to a generator and wire it back to itself. It'll run forever! It'll power the world!"
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHHAAHA!
/burns Excellent!
Nostrovia,
yeah, mp.
I think that it's a wee bit cynical.
whodathunk?
homedad43
OT. Anyone out there besides me seeing Walmart aisles empty of displays and a shortage of checkout persons?
This idea is beyond the pale. I see ghost horsemen riding. This is a sure sign, to me, that they are desperate.
EHP,
Some, yes, you could say it is for economic development purposes. Part will be Build America Bonds. Under the federal stimulus legislation, state and local governments can issue an unlimited amount of BABs in 2009 and 2010, and they have the option of selling them as tax credit bonds to investors or receiving a 35% interest rate subsidy from the federal government on interest payment dates. The idea is to open the muni market up to investors that do not need the tax benefits (retirement funds, etc) since institutional demand has dropped significantly since the financial crisis began. This has to be used for the same purposes as tax-exempt bonds.
bond girl a Question...
Since this: Moody's, for the first time ever, assigned a negative outlook to the U.S. local government sector. As the Bond Buyer observed
What have munis done?
If you think our financial leaders are delusional and unwilling to accept reality.. read about hitler's last days. Now that is one delusional guy.
I am thoroughly convinced the Obama administration has no clue how the financial markets actually function.
True. And why should they? Politicians spend all their time trying to get elected, they have no time to understand economics or finance. They depend on "experts." When people bemoan the choice of advisers, they forget that the politicians are going to go with the "safe" choice, people who seem to know what's going on, like popular economists, Fed insiders, and CEOs. Now, there are exceptions: a few people with political power who do understand the financial markets,...and they're trying to fatten up at the trough at taxpayer's expense.
But, as with any investment, there are risks. If, as some analysts suspect, the banks' assets are worth even less than believed, the funds' investors could suffer significant losses. Nonetheless, the administration and executives in the financial industry are pushing to establish the investment funds, in part to counter swelling hostility against the financial industry.
This administration is doomed. This is similar to the crap that the Bush administration was proposing after the 9/11 attacks. They were going to let Wall Street bet on what the most likely terrorist tactics would be, etc. They eventually abandoned it because it was deemed in bad taste for the government to encourage people to profit on worst case scenarios coming true to innocent victims.
What's the difference?
Someone needs to revoke Bernanke's Course 14 degree.
The curious fact is I just checked Bernanke's profile on the MIT Alumni web site, and it reads:
Company: Federal Reserve Board
Job Title: Chairman
Normally only Bernanke himself would have access to his profile, so at least he remembers to keep it updated and does not hide it 
prairiedog:
Rarely go to Walmart but last time I was there, there was a distinct change, to wit:
1. far fewer number of shoppers than at that same time of day months before;
2. the racks for clothing, etc were spaced further apart than had been in the past. All the other times I'd been to Walmart, things were packed pretty tightly together and there's now significantly more room. Check for yourself next time that you go.
Kmart is simply dead. Absolutely stunning to consider how few have been there when I've been there.
homedad43
" federal income-tax receipts from individuals have dropped more than 15% in the past six months, according to Congressional Budget Office estimates."
wow.
Yep, works for me. I'm sure they are telling me the truth about how great a deal it is and how special I am to get this chance at earning the big $ like them. I'm in as soon as I locate the tin cans in the yard.
jo6pac
"Now that is one delusional guy"
Lucifer
True. But he was able to take a broken nation w/ hyperinflation to a nation where the GDP was in went from -20% to +30% in a few short years and inflation went from 1000% to 5%
That said it is a course I really do not think we should follow..
Didn't think the end game would come this soon. But this is the stuff of end games. Really dumb proposal and right after tanking GM. So let's all be patriotic and save Goldman?
Isn't buying T-bills essentially the same thing?
Nostrovia,
Capitalism doesn't work unless there is constant growth. Net global growth is zero or negative today --- and probably has been for a decade. The bubble creates an illusion that wealth is still growing. Now the bubble has burst, which means...
Capitalism is over. Done.
We're living at the end of an era...and the start of a new era.
Yes it is; but it was not a year ago.
I should share:
Doing my part: I bought 5 new dress shirts today and four new ties. I'm not sure about the ties - I have not wore one in five years. The shirts are nice.
Barley - There has been a divergence between larger, higher-quality credits and lower-quality credits for months now.
of course pimco will be in on it. maybe one day real soon we can witness his sorry ass , hanging with a nice chinese made rope around his neck.......
Basel Too (member) wrote on Wed, 04/08/2009 - 10:28pm.
What are you talking about? The people that will buy these are the same ones that purchased the Obama souvenir plates and the Obama gold coins. It's all in the marketing.
Just iMO, but people who get fleeced for 35 dollar coins are not gonna be a real cash cow.
Other stuff:
Ghostfacedinvestah -- Maybe it is indicative of the Bank of Sealy Posturepedic growing?
ac -- I'm of the opinion that the whole point of this is or was to get the bailout money into the bankers' hands and give them time to get it out of USD before the currency collapses.
Bond Girl,
Thanks for informing me on what BABs are. Still, we're probably close enough that halting interest payments is just as effective o_o
O/T: Nouriel Roubini 7 April 2009 interview on CBC's The Hour
You too can invest your money in retention bonuses. Oh wait, you already have. Now you can some more.
I think I'd rather bid on a contract to have actual toxic waste stored on my property.
Nostrovia,
Barley:
You seem more like the cravat and smoking jacket type.
Sucking down a dry highball as you wait for Jeeves to bring you your laptop preset to CR.
homedad43
Double down with Obama Bucks!
More and more, it appears that Geithner, Bernanke and Summers believe in the financial equivalent of a perpetual motion machine: a perpetual wealth machine.
What these people and folks like Krugman believe in is fundamentally a variant of Marxism achieved through inflationary means - you keep people working by devaluing their savings and simultaneously redirect this capital to the government (by devaluing previous debt commitments).
In a situation like we have now where people are overindebted and bringing down output by increasing savings this seems especially attractive.
It's Marxist in the sense that people who worked and saved only to have their savings wiped out in effect were never getting paid for much of their labor - they were working "uncompensated" (except with joy) for the "collective" economy.
In theory this leads to an ideal economy in terms of economic output - no savings means everybody has to work their whole life, thus maximizing output.
In practice this fails like other forms of Marxism because real human beings will only get up in the morning, work hard, innovate, and cooperate in order to accumulate wealth. People ultimately figure out that inflation is preventing them from doing this and react badly.
Starting in the 60s in this country we really started instituting an alternative Marxist type strategy (this is implicit in long-term government deficit spending and currency devaluation) disguised behind inflationary policy and central planning via the federal reserve and interest rate/monetary policy.
Needless to say, it's turning out much like other Marxist experiments.
Comrade Misean is Dope wrote on Wed, 04/08/2009 - 10:41pm.
I think I'd rather bid on a contract to have actual toxic waste stored on my property.
I would hope so! Such contracts customarily do not pay out in units of waste!
Would Obama Bucks be the new DC local scrip?
homedad43
Capitalism 1.x is truly done.. it was a good idea but depended on often fictional growth and ponzi scheme type mechanics.. now we have to create Capitalism 2.x.
//Capitalism is over. Done.
We're living at the end of an era...and the start of a new era.//
Banks Holding Up in Tests, but May Still Need Aid
What [federal bank examiners] are discovering may come as a relief to both the financial industry and the public: the banking industry, broadly speaking, seems to be in better shape than many people think, officials involved in the examinations say....
Regulators say all 19 banks undergoing the exams will pass them. Indeed, they say this is a test that a bank simply will not fail: if the examiners determine that a bank needs "exceptional assistance," the government, that is, taxpayers, will provide it.
ac:
I think that you give them too much credit for thinking ahead.
homedad43
Lucifer - worse than Ken Lewis?
The curious fact is I just checked Bernanke's profile on the MIT Alumni web site, and it reads:
Company: Federal Reserve Board
Job Title: Chairman
Normally only Bernanke himself would have access to his profile, so at least he remembers to keep it updated and does not hide it
Hilarious. A less subtle person would have added "Super Genius".
I wonder if Bernanke realizes that the problem isn't one of liquidity or credit contraction, but instead of credit saturation. After you've loaned money at 125% DTI, after you've even done away with a full interest payment, after you've reduced interest rates to zero, who else is there to borrow money?
What [federal bank examiners] are discovering may come as a relief to both the financial industry and the public: the banking industry, broadly speaking, seems to be in better shape than many people think, officials involved in the examinations say....
Yay! Everyone dance!
We've turned the corner!
That's like, twice this week now!
Basel Too: as predicted. Everything is fine. Move along.
BR,
"I would hope so! Such contracts customarily do not pay out in units of waste! "
True, but I was thinking more along the lines of selling Tomacco and opening a petting zoo full of mutant bugs and varmints.
Nostrovia,
ac- So what or who has the longest running stable economy? Anybody recently? I'd guess everyone had a pretty good turn-over in the last couple centuries.
"Taxpayers investments into BB bonds will be guaranteed by the FDIC, who in turn will be guaranteed by the taxpayers"
Ah, yes I see they have discovered the financial perpetual motion machine.
Keep the smoke and mirrors coming. "We're not broke, were just under-capitalized!" "Legacy" assets. Riight.
Oh the joys of leverage and the back end of a ponzi scheme. Maddoff, should have contributed to some campaigns.
They can't say that the banks are sound, then ask for a lot of money, and expect people to actually believe it.
Sorry all, but I can't keep up with all of the comments tonight. Just did my taxes and I owed despite being single and working an extra job trying to pay off debt.
Screw this whole system. They want folks to default for some reason.
Going Galt asap... sorry suckers, but I'm just not going to play any longer. They don't do anything but spout platitudes, guess what?
Buy all my shite up now. Reduced cost real estate, you know.
Wells Fargo home and car, good luck repoing my stuff anytime soon.
Fail away.
Bond Girl,
"They can't say that the banks are sound, then ask for a lot of money, and expect people to actually believe it. "
Ermmm....let's look back at CR's post:
"Nonetheless, the administration and executives in the financial industry are pushing to establish the investment funds, in part to counter swelling hostility against the financial industry."
Nostrovia,
"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawarely enslave themselves." -Dresden James
"The Luciferian Principal is the art of concealing darkness in light, war in peace, and finally bondage in liberation from self restraint. In this way, people are seduced into embracing their own destroyer" Eliezer
Their World Is In Your Head By Philip Jones 4-2-9
http://www.rense.com/general85/jones.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Learn the 7TH Amendment maggot!
Red Beckman - Fully Informed Jury
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7385583011526915030&hl=en
A lot of the nobility who lost their heads in the french revolution might have be sympathetic towards Ken Lewis.
//Lucifer - worse than Ken Lewis?//
ac wrote: What these people and folks like Krugman believe in is fundamentally a variant of Marxism achieved through inflationary means - you keep people working by devaluing their savings and simultaneously redirect this capital to the government (by devaluing previous debt commitments).
These are subtle ideas and there is vast amounts of inequity. For example, if you're a hedgie who has socked away $100 million. You've already got title to a 20K sq ft house and a few cars. So what if we reduce the purchasing power down to $25 million? Instead of having enough money to live 100 years, he will have enough money to live 25 years. Sucks, but still not so bad.
Of course the real screwage occurs to those in the middle expecting a comfortable retirement with some benefits.
Capitalism is over. Done.
We're living at the end of an era...and the start of a new era.
It's an interesting question whether free market capitalism is possible in an evironment where you run up against growth constraints.
I think this is why people like Marc Faber argue war is likely: The human ambition that drives capitalist expansion turns into outright aggression when it runs into growth limitations.
I don't think countries like China are going to turn away from the wealth that they've gotten a taste of recently - barring a major collapse in their economy I think they continue moving forward with the capitalist experiment.
The question is what that means for the rest of the world.
It may force other countries to abandon more socialistic and authoritarian forms of government if they're too lethargic to compete for resources with a more free market Asia.
Chinese businessmen have recently taken pride and enjoyment at mocking Western European countries as socialist dinosaurs.
Seems like they've gotten a taste for action.
homedad43 - lol!
I could. But, staff is expensive. I prefer to get my own beverage. And, 'puters and I go way back.
OT:
Holdren compared global warming to being "in a car with bad brakes driving toward a cliff in the fog."
I think it is a liberal plot to deny me my divine right to prosperity, and favors communism over capitalism.
"Who could be dumb enough to invest in a bailout that will never work? "
Presumably if you too live in the USA, you and me.
These are subtle ideas and there is vast amounts of inequity. For example, if you're a hedgie who has socked away $100 million. You've already got title to a 20K sq ft house and a few cars. So what if we reduce the purchasing power down to $25 million? Instead of having enough money to live 100 years, he will have enough money to live 25 years. Sucks, but still not so bad.
Of course the real screwage occurs to those in the middle expecting a comfortable retirement with some benefits.
FWIW I don't necessarily disagree with Krugman's concerns and assessments of abuses and inequities in this country. In many ways I agree with his sentiments.
I just disagree with the particulars, some of which seem to be patently nuts in a historical context.
Government deficits and inflation have a disastrous track record.
I don't understand intellectually and scientifically how they can be the centerpieces of socially responsible policy.
As Jim Rogers aks (to paraphrase): When in the history of civilization has this ever worked?
What country has borrowed its way out of a debt crisis?
There's plenty of sh*t sandwiches for everyone!
Dig in !
++
ROFL
I would love to see their analysis where they project how much money they think they can get from this.
Lothar the Rott... (member) wrote on Wed, 04/08/2009 - 10:51pm.
Sorry all, but I can't keep up with all of the comments tonight. Just did my taxes and I owed despite being single and working an extra job trying to pay off debt.
Mead is sweet, but bitter when paid for.
Screw this whole system. They want folks to default for some reason.
To get your money. Ya been raped, son.
Going Galt asap... sorry suckers, but I'm just not going to play any longer. They don't do anything but spout platitudes, guess what?
Keep in mind, before you choose Confucian poverty -- which is probably a good way to describe it that won't get you categorized as a Randroid -- it can suck, horribly. Don't say you weren't warned that choosing poverty to prove a point isn't a form of martyrdom. It's the only responsible thing a talented individual can do in this context, but that doesn't make it pleasant.
"What a terrible choice he has turned out to be. "
And the alternative? Treasury Sec Grahm? How would that have been better?
This is a great idea. Bailout supporters keep arguing that this is a crisis of confidence. Those bad debts (toxic assets or whatever) are actually worth a lot more than it seems, they say, because everyone is just down on them. Only the gov't understand how valuable they are. So the gov't should use taxpayer money and sell them at a profit when everyone comes to their senses. Now they're asking for voluntary contributions to this. This is a very good idea.
If you think the gov't is right and these bad debts are worth something, invest your money in them. If you don't think they're valuable, you don't buy the bonds. The whole bank bailout should be structured this way. It's much better than using tax dollars from people like me who think the bad debts are worth very little.
Basel Too (member) wrote on Wed, 04/08/2009
Banks Holding Up in Tests, but May Still Need Aid
I only hope that this is a trial balloon to gauge the amount of outrage when the banks get the free pass and free money (again)
Basel Too (member) wrote on Wed, 04/08/2009
Banks Holding Up in Tests, but May Still Need Aid
I only hope that this is a trial balloon to gauge the amount of outrage when the banks get the free pass and free money (again)
I would laugh at this if I could stop crying. Terrible.
Kudos to whoever brought up ham hogs and Bar Mitzvahs.
ac: When in the history of civilization has this ever worked?
What country has borrowed its way out of a debt crisis?
Perhaps we're over thinking this. What if Geithner, Summers and Bernanke are doing something just to be doing something? What if they realize that no action can truly help at this stage, but doing nothing would just frighten the populace.
War bonds were sold to Americans during severe rationing following a depression. Not only were the people of America sold these bonds they were also sold a war the majority didn't want to join. The sacrifice of a generation went hand in hand with the handing over of most savings, the continued prohibition of owning gold and the internment of ethnic American born citizens. All accomplished with the mass media consisting of newspapers and radio.
You don't think they can do pretty much whatever they want? 8 years of Bush taught you nothing about the use and abuse of power.
The banks were bailed out. So every bond they sell is essentially bail-out bond anyway, right?
Dear taxpayer,
Since you are already bent over and blindfolded you might as well open your mouth too.
We gonna need a lot more than just the Alpheus and Peneus to flush out this mess.
--It won't be pretty but it will be an Exurban Nation--
Build IT Up and Tear IT Down...
eye-tea baggers unite.
Charles J Gervasi wrote on Wed, 04/08/2009 - 8:06pm.
Excellent point.
I guess you all missed the news item earlier in the week that Onion, Inc. purchased a controlling interest in the New York Times.
Banks are great,
Banks are good,
Bail me out mate,
My brain is wood.
It's all right to use imagination, as long as someone runs a ... REALITY CHECK.
reality check, .. someone .. ANYONE!?!
As Jim Rogers aks (to paraphrase): When in the history of civilization has this ever worked?
Enlightenment hubris. Mid-20th century technocracy.
Not only did they think they had tools and ideas nobody else in history had, everyone was a skilled knowledge professional / technician-bureaucrat, so actual historical knowledge of the trade of rule was minimal, and jargon designed to alienate the discourse and profession from the main stream was substituted.
ac- So what or who has the longest running stable economy? Anybody recently? I'd guess everyone had a pretty good turn-over in the last couple centuries.
I think at some point you have to make a value judgement about whether maximizing growth or stability is most important as a society.
I don't think you can argue that capitalism, for example, is necessarily stable. Just that overall it does seem to yield higher levels of growth.
My belief is that intense boom/bust cycles are an essential part of economic evolution, if that's your goal as a society.
"Am I the only one who considers this proposal extremely cynical?"
-----------
I don't.
I think it's hysterical.
Somebody has an awesome sense of humor.
"adornosghost (member) wrote on Wed, 04/08/2009 - 10:57pm.
OT:
Holdren compared global warming to being "in a car with bad brakes driving toward a cliff in the fog."
I think it is a liberal plot to deny me my divine right to prosperity, and favors communism over capitalism. "
It also drives people into a more collective conscientiousness. Oh boy, lets all work together to save the planet.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Learn the 7TH Amendment maggot!
Red Beckman - Fully Informed Jury
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7385583011526915030&hl=en
Charles,
When (if) individual investors throw their savings into a black hole, what happens?
When losses are greater than projected, and their savings is illiquid, what happens?
Do you think the country will be better off at that point?
Dear Taxpayer.
With high regard and deep regret we have to inform you, that you have been screwed.
Truly yours,
Central Scrutinizer.
how long til the usa treasury issues consols/perpetuals???
"Kind of like Argentina" Bond Girl
My favorite story from Buenos Aires came after the banks had been closed for a few days. Some people decided to "re-open " them to look for money but couldn't find any. Police were not willing to get close because they weren't getting paid either. Out of the corner of my eye I saw a McDonald's milkshake machine hurtling down the road. Some people were pushing it back home I guess. Once they ran out of corporate milkshake mix, I doubt it was much good for anything. Desperate times call for desperate measures. How much nutrition is in a McD's milkshake? I hope they stole some Depends as well.
When (if) individual investors throw their savings into a black hole, what happens?
When losses are greater than projected, and their savings is illiquid, what happens?
Do you think the country will be better off at that point?
Never mind the opportunity cost of putting that money into more productive endeavors.
News Alert: The reality checks bounced over a year ago...
Citizen Sacrificed:
You don't think they can do pretty much whatever they want? 8 years of Bush taught you nothing about the use and abuse of power.
The pointed man smack dab in the middle of July, swingin' from the
rafters in his brand new tie, he said i can't go back to that hotel room all
they do is shout, but listen baby i'll stay wichew baby till the money runs out, so bye
bye baby baby bye bye.
--Tom Waits, "Til The Money Runs Out"
If individual investors didn't have the option of investing, people on this blog would be complaining that the oligarchs are getting a sweet deal. Now that they say they will open it up to individuals, everyone here is complaining. Stop complaining people.
Night all
"I assume PIMCO, BlackRock and others will charge minimal or no fees for individual investors."
never would happen, those are way too skillful in charging number of hidden fees to miss such a bread & butter opportunity. Sorry, I meant bread & Caviar.
They may be able to find a bunch of investors who will buy into the notion of Recapitalizing America, especially if there is any notion of their investment being backed by the federal government. I don't want to be around when they figure out that they traded their retirement for a payment to a European counterparty and the federal government is not good for it.
These new bailout funds should work out really well for retail investors who dollar-cost-average.
Within months your steady, scheduled investment will be buying extra bagfuls of this crap at extremely low prices.
I'm not sure the claims on US treasuries is going to Europe, as far as European Counterparties go.
"Confidence" is just a subjective psychological mindset. What is it about the definition of the word confidence that people just can't understand?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Learn the 7TH Amendment maggot!
Red Beckman - Fully Informed Jury
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7385583011526915030&hl=en
Using the formula attributed to P.T. Barnum, a group of scientists has determined that it will take 19026 years for there to be enough suckers to buy all this debt. When they were asked for more information they replied "MMMMFFFF! MMMMFFFF!" before reports were sumarily beaten and thrown to the curb by Reichland Insecurity Assistance Teams.
Nostrovia,
" Now that they say they will open it up to individuals, everyone here is complaining"
----------
I'm not complaining, I think the idea is incredibly audacious.
I can only hope that they'll also offer a SSN bond deal, where I can sell my future SSN payments for instant cash.
Like JG Wentworth.
Anonymous2: you do raise a valid point. However, my problem with this trial balloon (and maybe it's just the authors shtick) is wrapping the bailout of the money center banks in the American flag.
As Jim Rogers aks (to paraphrase): When in the history of civilization has this ever worked?
Enlightenment hubris. Mid-20th century technocracy.
Not only did they think they had tools and ideas nobody else in history had, everyone was a skilled knowledge professional / technician-bureaucrat, so actual historical knowledge of the trade of rule was minimal, and jargon designed to alienate the discourse and profession from the main stream was substituted.
It's interesting to me that Jim Rogers academic background is in history, not economics.
I notice this with Faber too - he's always using historical examples and comparisons, not pointing to simple line graphs of abstract output functions to substantiate his arguments.
ECB and FED
thats the minefiled you dont want to drive yer SUV through.
staying away from both IS the game.
eye-tea baggers unite.
I guess, re-reading it, you can take your pick between toxic securities or hardly-marked-down loan pools?
More and more, it appears that Geithner, Bernanke and Summers believe in the financial equivalent of a perpetual motion machine: a perpetual wealth machine.
It's good to encourage belief in perpetual motion, when you make your profits off friction.
Actually....
it occurs to me that this may be their last best gasp at containing inflation.
Nemo, you made my evening. When you invest in Gold, you invest with Hitler.
Amen Brother
minefiled.
fixed eye-tea
This really is brilliant. Diabolical. Cynical. Tried and true.
The internet and the established "counterpointers" will find exception but anon2 nailed the winning argument. The masses have already shown they will go along with the charade but get them to invest and you might have the coup de grace moment of this entire crisis. The comments point out the paradox of genius or stupidity being the guiding force behind this debacle. I favor greed and opportunity in creating this mess but I am starting to see the intellect behind the choices leading us forward.
No matter the outcome and the chance books might not be written of this history due to conflict. I sincerely look forward to a well written and accurate account of this period . I am aware of the assumptions I am making in the future.
"I don't want to be around when they figure out that they traded their retirement for a payment to a European counterparty and the federal government is not good for it."
That along with watching the too big to fails fighting each other to the death is what I'm looking forward to.
As strange as it seems, all of this financial intervention is just bringing the world closer together. Eventually (30 years, 50 years, ...?) the US will owe too many people too much and half of our population will be immigrants from those countries. We'll have one world currency at that point, world bonds. Once that system suffers from ponzi flu then I don't want to be around.
Millions for bankers, tent cities for us. F Obama.
comment is required.
MINEFIELD
If the main problem with the PPIP is that they can't find suckers for the loan pools because the loans aren't really marked down, and the solution is to open it up to everyday investors who can't really appreciate what that means....
Linked:
The masses have already shown they will go along with the charade but get them to invest and you might have the coup de grace moment of this entire crisis.
Invest what?
Banks Holding Up in Tests, but May Still Need Aid
"For the last eight weeks, nearly 200 federal examiners have labored inside some of the nation's biggest banks to determine how those institutions would hold up if the recession deepened.
What they are discovering may come as a relief to both the financial industry and the public: the banking industry, broadly speaking, seems to be in better shape than many people think, officials involved in the examinations say.
That is the good news. The bad news is that many of the largest American lenders, despite all those bailouts, probably need to be bailed out again, either by private investors or, more likely, the federal government. After receiving many millions, and in some cases, many billions of taxpayer dollars, banks still need more capital, these officials say."
_____________
Tomorrow's NYT, posted without comment. More at the link.
"Millions for bankers, tent cities for us"
-----------
Hey, ,come on.
At least you got a free tent out of the deal.
I thought there were tears of laughter pouring from my eyes and then I realized that they were just pissing on me again.
ac,
Your thoughts are running along the same lines as mine. IMHO we can't go Euro-socialist and expect to survive; a sustainable version of our economy cannot support the bloated government we already have. You just can't get golden eggs by strangling the goose that lays them.
-----
"Hope for the best, prepare for the worst"
anon2-
People are complaining not because they feel someone is "getting in" on something that they are not privy to. They are complaining because if Nature had had her way, there wouldn't be anything to "get in" on at all.
It's a subtle difference, I'll grant, but important.
Anonymous2, I hereby bequeath you all my rights in this offering. Load the truck.
The US Treasury promises to plant a kitten for every $1000 of bonds purchased.
--It won't be pretty but it will be an Exurban Nation--
Sounds like the bigger fool theory on the scale of an entire society. Could so many be so irrational? Could the elite be so cynical? Sure. Why not?
"People are complaining not because they feel someone is "getting in" on something that they are not privy to. They are complaining because if Nature had had her way, there wouldn't be anything to "get in" on at all."
Nooo. People are complaining because Banks can buy their own assets from themselves, leveraged with public money, at higher than market value. So the bank gets to keep the money, and dump the trash on you and me. An offer to let us buy the trash ourselves is not much of one.
I'll bet the focus group loved the idea. Some people will do anything for doughnuts.
Sure, I'll buy. Just as soon as I can review the loan level tapes.
On this one, I don't know whether to be more amazed at the naivete of CR or other posters on this board.
Don't you get it by now?
The speculative announcement is the event. It gives the stock market a reason to exist another day, and it gives the media something semi positive to say about Obama/Geithner's "economic strategy." Then, it goes away.
Or morphs into another speculative announcement.
@ linked - You know that game you posted last night - 364681 points on level 11. Thought I would be able to complete it but World Capitals (Very hard) was too much.
***
Broward Horne wrote on Wed, 04/08/2009 - 8:30pm.
Actually....
it occurs to me that this may be their last best gasp at containing inflation.
To actually work the payments couldn't be fixed, basically they would have to scale to inflation. I don't think that was their intent though. It's clear the establishment is trying to help itself out, not it's piggy bank. An unintended consequence.
I have an even better idea - allow people to buy back their own mortgage below par, an individual debt buy-back as it were.
I know my mortgage is in a securitization somewhere, as are about 90% of all mortgages (either private label or agency). Every mortgage has some kind of a mark on it. Offer borrowers the chance to buy back their debt at the marked down value.
Based on the profile of my mortgage, FICO score, documentation at origination, LTV, etc, my loan is probably marked down by 3 - 5%. I would gladly buy it back at 95 cents on the dollar. Others could get much higher discounts. For example, my mother in law lives in Arizona, and she is way underwater. I would be willing to help her out to buy back her debt at 70 cents on the dollar.
This would be a true win/win scenario, and is similar to companies buying back their debt.
Why should consumers be expected to pay debt back at par if they retire it early, while companies can tender to below par.
At a minimum, the government should require that servicers send the mark with every mortgage statement, so borrowers can negotiate to pay back early.
It amazes me how much time people have wasted pursuing the so called "American Dream"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Learn the 7TH Amendment maggot!
Red Beckman - Fully Informed Jury
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7385583011526915030&hl=en
"Tomorrow's NYT, posted without comment. More at the link."
Yeah I saw it. "the banks are fine, but need more money."
Scot:
Excellent observation. I think that's the whole point of the idea.
"To actually work the payments couldn't be fixed,"
-----------
I'm not so sure. At its broadest level, it's just another 401K scheme - get people to defer (yet again) from trading their massive stacks of chits for real goods.
"It amazes me how much time people have wasted pursuing the so called "American Dream" "
Yeah, I used to make fun of the panhandlers who live under the overpass. But no rent and free beer? I'm starting to appreciate their world view.
Blackhalo,
"People are complaining because Banks can buy their own assets from themselves, leveraged with public money, at higher than market value. So the bank gets to keep the money, and dump the trash on you and me. An offer to let us buy the trash ourselves is not much of one"
Wait....
"So the bank gets to keep the money, and dump the trash on..."the gov't, who then sells the bond to people in the Godd ol' USSA, because it's the only freaking way to fund the deficit sans out right monetization.
I think I just agreed with Broward....
Nostrovia,
hong konger: +1
The PPIP people can come see me when they have a real vulture fund to offer retail investors. The "This used to be a bank until the FDIC wiped out the shareholders and bondholders and now we need someone to buy the remaining legacy Tier III crap" Fund.
I would be interested in that. At a discount.
BR,
I won't run down the numbers that have been posted regarding the remaining personal wealth of Americans. It is substantial. There are many people with considerable savings and means. The loss of trust in Wall Street makes these bonds a perfect investment for the average American. Market it correctly and it will sell. There was a comment upstream regarding war bonds during WWll. I read up on warbonds and this quote from wikipedia convinces me of the ease people can be manipulated:
"National Service Board for Religious Objectors offered civilian bonds in the United States during World War II, primarily to members of the historic peace churches as an alternative for those who could not conscientiously buy something meant to support the war. These were U.S. Government Bonds not labeled as defense bonds. In all, 33,006 subscriptions were sold for a total value of $6,740,161, mostly to Mennonites, Brethren and Quakers.[21]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_bonds
You are the best read in regards to history and civilization on this board. You are very aware of the strength of beliefs and the level of protest that was waged by the Quakers and their brethren. Yet they still bought bonds to support a government waging a war they disagreed with to their very soul.
"I'm starting to appreciate their world view."
--------
ahhh, now you begin to understand why I'm sitting in my parent's house and playing pool four hours per day.
No point in putting further "legitimate" effort into this thing.
It's bagged.
Rich,
I fear they will actually try to carry through with this one. First, they have been having very public problems finding actual commitments for the loan portion of the PPIP, so all this stuff about how the oligarchs are the only ones that can invest - that's silly. The banks are all for the legacy securities side of things (they'll buy each others'). But while financial commentary has distinguished between the securities and loan pools, for the most part the media just lumps those two together (as in this article). Second, if they raise funds by getting individual investors to participate, people will have to stop bitching about executive pay. "Look, we gave you a chance to profit, too, and a great asset manager."
i could not believe this when i read it.
i spit onto the keyboard. spit.
then i looked down and noticed it was blood.
i was spittin' blood.
my bp cannot go any higher. this has got to stop.
Man, if the kitten joke didn't get a laugh we are well and truly screwed.
I still say this whole thing would clear up if every time a loan was sold the borrower was informed of the terms.
--It won't be pretty but it will be an Exurban Nation--
Now that is funny, Rob Dawg.
next up: car washes and bake sales.
@Mandatory Patriot Bond
Addictive bastard of a game isn't it? You beat me. Good work.
Is AIG going to guarantee those bonds?
Now THAT would be a great idea!
Kukae!
Does anybody know if there are any good Tent City USA documentaries made yet?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Learn the 7TH Amendment maggot!
Red Beckman - Fully Informed Jury
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7385583011526915030&hl=en
Equating supporting the bailout of fraudsters as equivalent to supporting the war against tyranny and fascism disgusts me.
I don't think it's a great idea BUT...
Has anyone considered that maybe what they mean here is to give Joe Public the same sort of deal the institutional investors will get, that is, the 'put up 10% (or whatever) and we'll put up the 90% and the 90% the govt puts up is a non recourse loan. I am sure I haven't got it right, but what I am saying is that if the deal is good for the fat cats (is it the PPIP?) wouldn't it be good for the 'little guy' too (although bad for the taxpayer)?
I realize I am not totally conversant with the PPIP bit, but if it's a scam in favor of big investors, wouldn't it be a scam for little investors too? (now I will duck and cover as people show what an idiot I am)
Anyone know if the Roosevelt admin manipulated the stock market during the GD as blatantly as the Obama admin is now?
Or am I wearing a tin-foil hat and don't know it...
What you mean is equating the support of tyranny and fascism and the war against tyranny and fascism.... makes no sense at all.
Good night all.
ANSFA wrote on Wed, 04/08/2009 - 8:58pm.
Is AIG going to guarantee those bonds?
Now THAT would be a great idea!
No doubt we'll all be paying AIG to insure those bonds on paper. That's almost the same thing isn't it?
--It won't be pretty but it will be an Exurban Nation--
"Look, we gave you a chance to profit, too,"
On the bond side, any investor retail or otherwise needs an array of tools to see if they are getting their eyes ripped out, Bloomberg, Intex, Loan Performance, etc. Retail investors don't have access to those tools so this is an attempt to see if the banks can sell what has not otherwise gotten an attractive bid to the blind.
On the loan side, to correct ghostfacedinvestah, there is no mark on the value of a property other than its appraisal. Properties usually don't get re-appraised unless there is a default or a refinancing. But the idea of refinancing ALL mortgages performing or otherwise based on a current appraisal makes a lot more sense than TALF/PPIP as it gets the bad loans out of the system and haircuts the parties most guilty of providing excessive credit, the bondholders.
Sorry Trainwreck. WWll was an economic war with a human drama dressed up as tyranny and fascism. I won't argue against your beliefs or education regarding those times. I could have used examples of the war on drugs or the war on terror to make my point. I probably should have.
I've noticed a new trend emerging, I think it started with the Taxday Boston Tea Party people as a symbol of their commitment to take back control of our government.
They are giving the all seeing eye on the back of the one dollar bill a black eye with a black marker, or they are cutting out the eye with a hole punch. I hope this doesn't upset anybody.
http://hosting02.imagecross.com/image-hosting-08/7981Black-eye.jpg
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Learn the 7TH Amendment maggot!
Red Beckman - Fully Informed Jury
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7385583011526915030&hl=en
We certainly don't want to do true reappraisals. No doubt literally tens of millions of loans would be in covenant violations of some sort and even so much as imposing
PMI coverage would tip many into ruthless default.
--It won't be pretty but it will be an Exurban Nation--
"I am saying is that if the deal is good for the fat cats (is it the PPIP?) wouldn't it be good for the 'little guy' too (although bad for the taxpayer)?"
Your getting caught up in the perpetual motion machine. You only make out on this, if you own a toxic asset already.
There are many people with considerable savings and means.
Those people didn't get there investing in crap.
-----
"Hope for the best, prepare for the worst"
Perfect "Shock Doctrine Disaster Capitalism " tactics ... keep throwing out worthless ideas to keep your detractors busy while the crimes continue ...
"Better to know me and not need me, than to need me and not know me"
1-800-782-4522. I live over 2000 miles from San Diego now, and I still keep one of King Stahlman's magnets on my refrigerator. (Just in case!)
Something about this has me thinking about the Americans who got themselves suckered into joining certain Lloyd's syndicates back in the 70s. They thought they were getting the same deal that for three centuries had made so many wealthy Englishmen, only to discover that the syndicates they'd been offered were the ones holding the legacy asbestos risks. And they discovered that not only was their investment lost but any other wealth they had accumulated was at risk too, since Lloyd's Names are responsible for their portion of the losses without limit.
At least this time around you won't be able to lose more than 100% of your money.
Now Roubini calls Cramer a buffoon.
Yalt,
"At least this time around you won't be able to lose more than 100% of your money. "
You forgot about the whole tax money thingy....
Just sayin'
Nostrovia,
I'm going with the Vanguard bailout index fund.
Other then gold, isn't it all crap, TJ?
Don't trust 401ks, 529, pension plan, real estate, etc. Well here we have a government guaranteed investment that due to your outspoken complaints against the waste of taxpayer funds we will allow you to get the same great returns only the big guys were going to get. All those financial advisers will be all over this like white on rice. It practically sells itself.
I'm playing the contrarian tonight and it is making me ill. Night.
"Now Roubini calls Cramer a buffoon."
Buffoon's should sue.
Nostrovia,
"You don't think they can do pretty much whatever they want? 8 years of Bush taught you nothing about the use and abuse of power."
If that doesn't, the first three months of the Obama administration will.
Excuse me, but I prefer the Vanguard Admiral Bailout Fund, thank you.
Get me another highball please, Jeeves.
homedad43
.
OregonGuy (member) wrote on Wed, 04/08/2009 - 11:03pm.
Anyone know if the Roosevelt admin manipulated the stock market during the GD as blatantly as the Obama admin is now?
Or am I wearing a tin-foil hat and don't know it...
.
Team FDR didn't spend a lot of effort manipulating 'the market' - they were FAR more worried about jobs & what an angry unemployed populace might do. Team O will get to that mind set after a few more really bad job loss months.
Other then gold, isn't it all crap, TJ?
Well, there's silver.
-----
"Hope for the best, prepare for the worst"
You guys asked for a new bubble!
And you got it!
The Bailout Bond Bubble by Ben Bernanke! (BBBBBB)
Or perhaps Ben Bernanke's Bailout Bond Bubble?
I didn't forget about it, Misean, but it's involuntary and isn't comparable to the Lloyd's situation I was referring to.
It was really just a musing triggered by aClem's comment that if it's a great deal for the hedge funds why shouldn't we want in on it?
Oh my, this is amazing. http://iamned.com/blog/?page_id=2
"With regards to the stock market I firmly believe that making money in the stock market should be easy. The goal of the stock market is to make money, and if you buy the stocks that have a tendency to go up, have huge growth, and hold them for while, you will make vastly more money."
"Buffoon's should sue."
Truth is not actionable.
Oh, wait never mind, I get it.
I for one will be investing in this stuff. "Toxic Assets" of today will no doubt be hugely profitable when the housing market recovers. We are now being given a golden opportunity to buy these assets and significantly discounted rates. In 5 to 10 years, it'll probably be the best investment I've ever made in my life...
Here is one scenario that outlines how this works....
http://mast-economy.blogspot.com/2009/03/how-toxic-assets-turn-to-gold.html
no. wait.
I thought April 1st was last Wednesday.
"All one has to do is ask this simple question; "Who benefits". Who benefits from a population of mesmerized distracted souls, following their own `Pied Pipers` who lead them away from recognizing the blatantly obvious and daily accelerating implementation of Totalitarianism in their lives, by telling them that it is in effect their own fault. That they are creating that reality. Don't blame the Government, or some abstract `Conspiratorial Secret Society` that supposedly controls the world. No, it's their own fault and all they have to do is think it away. Be positive, don't complain, smile and be happy, and it will all become better.
By presenting Quantum Mechanics as `The Law Of Attraction` and marketing this transparent ruse via attractively presented `New Age` vehicles such as `The Secret` and `What The Bleep`, the would be `Lords Of The New World Order` are delivering what might be termed the `sucker punch` to a populace metaphorically `stuck on the ropes` in the twelfth round, with little resistance left to counter the final onslaught about to be unleashed upon them. Time to wake up people! The Enemy is not only inside the gate, but inside your head as well. "
http://www.rense.com/general85/jones.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Learn the 7TH Amendment maggot!
Red Beckman - Fully Informed Jury
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7385583011526915030&hl=en
Spendism rules, Blackhalo. The underlying bullish trend remains intact. It definitely appears the the media generated mental recession and fake financial crisis is coming to an end. The trend of low volatility continues. The major breakout has happened and its just a steady, uninterrupted climb higher from here on out. I am on the forefront of the smartist web 2.0 era which we are currently living in.
Bail out zombie banks and become a zombie entity your self so that you can also get bailed out by bailout bonds ... What an idea.
Here is a better one... let the zombie entitties go up and pick up the good pieces ... any takers in Government
The question on my mind is not wether we can get out of this mess. It is at what cost can we get out of it. What scary is that some f. politicians treat the crisis as some computer game with a restart button. There isn't a restart button, there is just a consequence button.
"you buy the stocks that have a tendency to go up, have huge growth, and hold them for while, you will make vastly more money."
Will Rogers: And if they don't go up, don't buy 'em.
I'm curious...how does one become "Seeking Alpha Certified"? Is there some extremely low bar one has to limbo under?
I'll invest if the government promises to bail me out of any losses.
"Toxic Assets" of today will no doubt be hugely profitable when the housing market recovers.
Er, you mean "Legacy Assets"? +Buy those bonds and leave a great legacy for your heirs. There's probably a bondage pun in there but I'll leave the S/M stuff to Broward.
I thought I had wandered into the twilight zone.
Perhaps if we believe hard enough, the banks won't be broke, there will not be too many houses and CRE will turn on a dime. Clap your hands for Tinkerbell.
Did you see the charts on his April 2 post?
"I know pretty much everything."
Re: bailout funds.
COVERED BOND TIME!
These friggn crooks will re-package the nuclear waste into small packages of sugar-coated treats that will have bright colors and great advertising and all the retarded pension managers that never had the time to read about the small problems in Florida with CDO's, will all flock like a group of drooling pigs waiting for slop to be placed into the trough of deceit. After this shit is repackaged, bonus time will come around and then this shit will end up in money market funds, blessed by the folks at S&P, Fitch and Moody's who will profit from this generational theft, while The Obama team cheers them on!
(( 
( 
Another setup. Anything to screw J6P & save his banker campaign contributors. The Obama adminiistration has absolutely no shame.
They'll totally pay you back bro, honest.
Have they considered a tip jar? Some people will tip anyone.
And what is your point? That I should not be disgusted that they would equate our current economic crisis to the problems faced in WW2, or that the bailout of our financial system should be more equated to the war on drugs or terror? Either way your criticism lacks any weight.
OK this system sucks, my response above was aimed at this post.
The bonds will be issued to pay the 6% private equity. I initially thought the natural buyers in PIPP would be those holding bank bonds that will rise in value as the gambling losses are transferred to the taxpayer. Now we see their true genius: they're going to get mom and pop taxpayer to put up the 6% AND the non-recourse loan, setting up their exit from otherwise certain bond losses.
"OK this system sucks, my response above was aimed at this post. "
Which post?
Hit the reply button and it does not quote the message that was meant to reply to. Such as your message. It does not quote the message.
War is Peace
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
Bailouts-r-Investments!!!!
Go back two-three years in the comments. I predicted "economic war bonds"
(well either here or on that other blog I used to post on all the time)
UB,
How can I go back in time?
1. If one alters a Euclidean space so that its inner product becomes negative in one or more directions, then the result is a pseudo-Euclidean space.
2. Peter Lynds has proposed a model in which time is cyclic, and the universe repeats exactly an infinite number of times. Because it is the exact same cycle that repeats, however, it can also be interpreted as taking place just once.
3. In a Lorentzian manifold, a closed timelike curve (CTC) is a worldline of a material particle in spacetime that is "closed," returning to its starting point. This possibility was raised by Willem Jacob van Stockum in 1937 and by Kurt Gödel in 1949. If CTCs exist, their existence would seem to imply at least the theoretical possibility of making a time machine, as well as raising the spectre of the grandfather paradox.
Trainwreck wrote on Thu, 04/09/2009 - 2:10am.
Hit the reply button and it does not quote the message that was meant to reply to. Such as your message. It does not quote the message.
"ctrl-C / ctrl-V"
"Stop complaining people."
You're new here, aren't you?
When you buy gold, you invest with HITLER.
- Nemo