Comments for Credit Unions, Bank Failures, and More
CRbot says:
This comment thread has been HALO-IZED by CRbot.
http://realize.org/cr/halokit.php?halourl=http://www.haloscan.com/comments/calculatedrisk/6578190661847583405
CRbot Fri Mar 20 20:01:54 2009 CDT #
12many dopes says:
comments not showing . ...
12many dopes Fri Mar 20 20:03:20 2009 CDT #
Virgil says:
Good article on the effect this will have on small credit unions:
http://www.portfolio.com/views/blogs/market-movers/2009/03/20/save-the-credit-unions
Virgil Fri Mar 20 20:05:14 2009 CDT #
EvilHenryPaulson says:
71% of invested credit union deposits were in there (they quote $80bn in corporate credit union shares insured)
cog or whole system... either or really
EvilHenryPaulson Fri Mar 20 20:05:18 2009 CDT #
That Barton Fink Feeling says:
In the NYT today, Joe Nocera argues we're all being too hard on poor AIG. It's OK to be mad, but remember -- don't get too mad. This is business, folks! His is a Clintonian pragmatist's line of "we bought it, now don't break it further."
To be fair, he does spend a few words railing about the bailout of AIG's counterparties.
But mainly Nocera, and the Times, are showing their true colors here: their institutional cheerleading made them not-so-silent accomplices to the bubble (and cozy beneficiaries during the flush years). Now in catch-up and explain-away mode, they want to go back to business as usual, with as little grumbling from the little people as possible.
Populism is the *last* thing they want to encourage at the paper of (heh heh) "record":
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/21/business/21nocera.html?_r=1&hp
That Barton Fink Feeling Fri Mar 20 20:07:37 2009 CDT #
Michael says:
Network- I'm Mad as Hell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dib2-HBsF08
Parent Post
Michael Fri Mar 20 20:17:38 2009 CDT #
Doc at the Radar Station says:
This one is my favorite:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzSj1yNZdY8
The global corporatist manifesto
Parent Post
Doc at the Radar Station Fri Mar 20 22:01:29 2009 CDT #
reptillian says:
How do current hotel occupancy rates compare to after 9/11?
I remember in Pacific Grove and Monterey (CA), that the
parking lots were empty for months. Those places had
been full -- lots of bay area day trippers down for the weekend.
reptillian Fri Mar 20 20:09:11 2009 CDT #
dreadlord76 says:
How about some good news from Taiwan? This news is very interesting, and maybe due to China's stimulus package:
TSMC announces end to unpaid leave
RIVAL: TSMC rival United Microelectronics Corp was quoted as saying it would also end its policy of forced unpaid leave as orders pick up on the back of Chinese demand
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/biz/archives/2009/03/21/2003439014
dreadlord76 Fri Mar 20 20:09:47 2009 CDT #
EvilHenryPaulson says:
Hey guys, taxes won't be raised to cover the monumental shortfalls
OLYMPIA, Wash. (AP) - An obstacle to obtaining a high school diploma may be removed after the Legislature's vote to eliminate some math test requirements.
EvilHenryPaulson Fri Mar 20 20:10:29 2009 CDT #
reptillian says:
EHP writes: Hey guys, taxes won't be raised to cover the monumental shortfalls
OLYMPIA, Wash. (AP) - An obstacle to obtaining a high school diploma may be removed after the Legislature's vote to eliminate some math test requirements.
We have become a failure-free society.
reptillian Fri Mar 20 20:12:59 2009 CDT #
JimPortlandOR says:
Only $15 billion down the drain. pfffft. Yukon Gold potatoes. (Small but nice!)
JimPortlandOR Fri Mar 20 20:14:50 2009 CDT #
Hazard says:
How about some good prison terms for the former heads of these 2 institutions?
Hazard Fri Mar 20 20:16:20 2009 CDT #
Money Man says:
Losing Your Ass- It's not just for banks anymore! :-$
Money Man Fri Mar 20 20:17:02 2009 CDT #
nova says:
I posted some more of my CR inspired story this afternoon of the doom that awaits this crazy, mixed up world.
Also OtisHertz wrote a pretty good rant.
excerpt
The ladies from the shelter proved to be excellent scavengers. When I went out with a team of them I always made sure I had Rosa. Rosa was El Salvadoran and beyond extraordinary when it came to finding food or other stuff we needed. We would be driving through an industrial park and she would say “Stop.” She would then sit there for a second and then point at a building. I never saw what tipped her off but she could find the food. If there was a lot we would call the other groups that were out and tell them to come to our location. We could usually come up with one functioning cell phone for each group. The youngest ninja was usually with me and I let him handle our communications. He liked that. By mid winter we began to have real problems with cell phones. The Burners began taking down cell phone towers and relays whenever they could.
site: http://afterthecrash.net
nova Fri Mar 20 20:18:19 2009 CDT #
RayOnTheFarm says:
"Only $15 billion down the drain."
Sure, whats a mere $15,000 Million between friends ? (btw, since its so insignificant, may I have the loose change off the floor ?)
RayOnTheFarm Fri Mar 20 20:19:18 2009 CDT #
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) says:
Notice how the higher CA unemployment rate story doesn't even qualify for the summary post?
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) Fri Mar 20 20:19:24 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Sorry if this is a bit off-topic but I wanted to add this message.
I am a spouse of a Fannie Mae employee who has been there for nearly 13 years. My spouse goes in every day with plenty of energy, a good attitude, and does a good job, always exceeding the goals placed upon him.
During the bubble years, he would often say he should go elsewhere to make more, but we always decided to stay with the company.
We have lost all of our stock, seen our compensation cut back, and now he may lose his "bonus". It is not really a bonus. The company set goals, he met them, and he was supposed to get that money.
It has not been easy to work there over the last year and my spouse has been contacted by a few employers to work elsewhere. We always stayed put, thinking it was the right thing to do and that he was compesated adequately -- not what they were making on Wall Street.
Congress has been saying no money b/c of "poor performance". Individually, my spouse, like 90% of the people that might get affected did their jobs, often well. They were not responsible for the policy or the poor decisions made by the 10%.
The past few months, we didn't really pursue some of the job leads. We tried to keep it up. Tonight, I said no more. Who cares. Take another job. There will be another one out there. There are probably a lot of good workers out there just like my spouse who just today have decided that's enough; it's not just the money, it's the shame that is being thrown on people who just showed up and did their job. I think a lot of people can seel themselves in that role.
I know. Don't cry for us Argentina but in all seriousness my spouse is one of the good ones, and I/we have just given up.
Anonymous Fri Mar 20 20:20:54 2009 CDT #
Minh says:
http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2008/10/national-debt-exceeds-10-trillion.html
That was on Sept 30 08
It's now $11T March 19 09
http://optionarmageddon.ml-implode.com/2009/03/19/us-debt-passes-11-trillion/
Any guess as to -$12T ? Sept 09 ?
Minh Fri Mar 20 20:22:08 2009 CDT #
Comrade Kristina says:
Great article that pretty much says it all...
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/26793903/the_big_takeover
Comrade Kristina Fri Mar 20 20:28:26 2009 CDT #
central_scrutinizer says:
Re: rolling stone:
I especially liked the part about giving subprime mortgages to unemployed meth dealers. Pretty much sums up Countrywide's business model.
Parent Post
central_scrutinizer Fri Mar 20 21:01:19 2009 CDT #
mock turtle says:
comrade Kristina
thanks a trillion...outstanding article
Parent Post
mock turtle Fri Mar 20 22:52:57 2009 CDT #
Rob Dawg says:
My guess for $12T is Jun 6, 2009.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/20/AR2009032001820.html?hpid=topnews
Rob Dawg Fri Mar 20 20:29:09 2009 CDT #
Minh says:
So you mean by the end of 09 it would be equal to US GDP ?
Actually it was March 13
03/09/2009 6,662,204,653,404.08 4,290,458,377,199.33 10,952,663,030,603.41
03/10/2009 6,662,656,840,626.19 4,295,751,745,596.24 10,958,408,586,222.43
03/11/2009 6,662,844,615,842.74 4,288,255,021,492.89 10,951,099,637,335.63
03/12/2009 6,694,196,414,273.22 4,289,353,514,455.52 10,983,549,928,728.74
03/13/2009 6,694,182,755,194.09 4,289,567,427,153.16 10,983,750,182,347.25
03/16/2009 6,741,972,565,592.27 4,291,185,013,077.51 11,033,157,578,669.78
03/17/2009 6,742,004,029,257.94 4,300,549,942,192.53 11,042,553,971,450.47
03/18/2009 6,742,241,452,096.13 4,291,983,642,294.90 11,034,225,094,391.03
03/19/2009 6,746,328,587,056.90 4,293,357,543,841.20 11,039,686,130,898.10
Parent Post
Minh Fri Mar 20 20:36:18 2009 CDT #
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) says:
It is not really a bonus.
Don't mean to sound unsympathetic, but... if it's not part of the regular paycheck then it's a bonus.
I *know* there were plenty of good people doing honest hard work and meeting their goals at lots of failed companies. However, if the company doesn't have it's own money (i.e., profit), then it doesn't have the money. Government support is akin to a managed BK, and that means no money for bonuses.
If that means people leave for somewhere else, so be it.
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) Fri Mar 20 20:30:05 2009 CDT #
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover says:
The feel of the three prong toxic assets is going to sting! =-O
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover Fri Mar 20 20:30:11 2009 CDT #
reptillian says:
"Notice how the higher CA unemployment rate story doesn't even qualify for the summary post?"
See this
reptillian Fri Mar 20 20:30:55 2009 CDT #
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) says:
And although Obama would come close to meeting his goal of cutting the deficit in half by the end of his first term...
Dawg, that article is hilarious.
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) Fri Mar 20 20:32:58 2009 CDT #
otishertz says:
VIVISECTION
Every house is an island. The only escape is by car. Every road impassible except by car. Every city a similar prison where the same global shops line up and pump money out of town. Four wheeled jail cells shoot through cattle chutes that lead always into separated single use sections. Everyone has the same look pressed into their face. The whole damn country is becoming a locked down airport mall.
The heart torn from human society was sacrificed on the altar of sprawl. Natural evolution of cities into centralized mixed use areas has been blocked. Car culture is cemented into the foundation of our lives with laws that isolate us from eachother. Life functions are cut and cordoned off in a dissection of intersections.
Indifferent mega-stores over here, cookie cutter chain restaurants over there, security monitored identical new starter Mold Mansions beyond. All segregated by smooth, anonymous roads where thousands of fellow travelers pass an hour with never a wave, wink courtesy or nod. Life is vivisected and anonymous.
Compartmentalized.
otishertz Fri Mar 20 20:33:23 2009 CDT #
DIPing to China says:
Otis-
Read the full essay @ afterthecrash. Great descriptive imagery and an accurate portrayal of this American life. Keep up the writing that paints our society as the grossly inhumane construct it has become. The pen is mightier then the sword and can create the necessary flux to recognize and create something akin to what is needed in making us back into a community. Thanks
Parent Post
DIPing to China Sat Mar 21 13:23:08 2009 CDT #
rainyday says:
A good start .. wish some body would do the same with BAC and C.
Mr. Fryzel said regulators acted Friday after becoming convinced that the two institutions were underestimating the true scope of their losses. "With us in control we'd get honest numbers," he said. Mr. Fryzel said regulators plan to replace top management at both institutions.
Mr Fryzel is the chairman of the NCUA
rainyday Fri Mar 20 20:34:09 2009 CDT #
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) says:
Reptillian,
You missed the point. CR recaps his biggest posts of the day and that one didn't qualify. What does that say?
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) Fri Mar 20 20:34:23 2009 CDT #
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) says:
otishertz,
That passage reminds me of Pixar's "Cars" where they lamented how freeways bypassed (and thus killed) the small towns that populated the old highways.
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) Fri Mar 20 20:36:36 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Comrade Bear. Yes and no. It's different than sales but similar. You sign a document saying if you do X, Y and Z, then you will get paid X, Y and Z. I agree it is grey but it is actually a comp plan not a bonus. Whatever.
The true point is that my spouse is the type you don't want to leave but what is happening will make them leave and given the current situation, is the one you want in that seat.
Anonymous Fri Mar 20 20:37:04 2009 CDT #
Bob the Builder says:
Hate to hear that about your spouse. He should leave post hast. If he is any good he should not waste his talent in the suck hole that is gov. owned firms. It is a no win situation and anyone who tries to prop it up is part of the problem. "just walk away"
Parent Post
Bob the Builder Fri Mar 20 20:57:29 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Mish:
Ridiculous Whining at Citigroup, Bank of America
CRbot Fri Mar 20 20:37:14 2009 CDT #
rainyday says:
JP Morgan is whining too...
James Dimon, chief executive and chairman of J.P. Morgan Chase & Co., told about 200 of the bank's most senior managers on Friday that the company was "very focused" on the legislation, which he described in a conference call as unfair, according to a person who listened to the call.
wsj "Obama seeks to soften legislation"
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123759048676700307.html
Parent Post
rainyday Fri Mar 20 20:47:14 2009 CDT #
Sexy Derivative says:
Congressman Brad Sherman The Sherminator Kicks Some Wall Street Ass.
http://bit.ly/3wH1Ee
This is positive video for taxpayers. You will feel better afterwards.
Sexy Derivative Fri Mar 20 20:42:37 2009 CDT #
cd says:
Hypo about ready to be nationalized
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601100&sid=axMbbLmWaRp8&refer=germany
cd Fri Mar 20 20:46:19 2009 CDT #
Rufus the Doofus says:
It doesn't look like anybody is going to be nationalized, no matter what.
Parent Post
Rufus the Doofus Fri Mar 20 23:12:55 2009 CDT #
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) says:
I agree it is grey but it is actually a comp plan not a bonus.
I understand that in those circumstances -- just like commission sales -- there's an expected level of renumeration associated with performance. Again, though, the only reason these companies aren't BK (and therefore issuing any paychecks at all, let alone severance payments or pensions) is because the government chose to support them. No employee is an island, either; the company itself did not perform.
I am truly sympathetic, but this cannot in any way be considered "business as usual".
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) Fri Mar 20 20:47:05 2009 CDT #
Bob the Builder says:
so what should it be "considered". If you don't want firms to honor commitments they must be put into BK. Which is where were supposed to dispense with the obligations of busted firms. Not in the Freak show that is the legislative branch. In BK employees get paid first!
Parent Post
Bob the Builder Fri Mar 20 21:00:00 2009 CDT #
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) says:
What's the Japan debt vs. GDP ratio, something north of 150%? Well, Obama can't let that stand -- we have to be #1 in that category, too. Shouldn't take us long to get there at this rate (especially given that both numbers are moving towards each other).
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) Fri Mar 20 20:51:27 2009 CDT #
REBear says:
Was Shiela's 'passionate' speech today to low grade banksters a precursor to what's going to happen the left overs?
REBear Fri Mar 20 20:51:34 2009 CDT #
reptillian says:
Congressman Brad Sherman The Sherminator Kicks Some Wall Street Ass.
http://bit.ly/3wH1Ee
This is positive video for taxpayers. You will feel better afterwards.
That guy's speech (not the congressman) was slurred.
Hmmm. "Why should you get paid more than Geithner, if you're working for Geithner?"
reptillian Fri Mar 20 20:51:44 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Comrade Bear and rainy day, I guess my question is what do people want. If my spouse, like so many others, don't get their bonuses, which is my spouses case is more like a commission based on personal goals, we lose a substantial portion of our salary. That, and more importantly the stigma placed on you, is enough to cause you to leave. The low performers have already been weeded out through multiple rounds of layoffs. I don't think you really want to the good people to leave. That is what will happen. I know, we gave up tonight. I understand the outrage, but when you really analyze it, you are just shooting the messenger. Go after the top executives, the board.... not the better people who are dealing with this muck every day.
Exhausted./
Anonymous Fri Mar 20 20:53:26 2009 CDT #
fried says:
f my spouse, like so many others, don't get their bonuses...
I don't think you understand. Your husband's employer has failed spectacularly. It is now being propped up to the tune of billions of taxpayer dollars. Please note that unemployment is now over 10% in California and other states. These numbers do not include people whose unemployment benefits have run out. Yet you feel
entitled to a bonus as well as a salary.
I am not sympathetic. If your husband does not like it, leave and find another job.
The word will continue turning with or without him. There are plenty of people desperate for work.
Parent Post
fried Fri Mar 20 22:02:52 2009 CDT #
Barley says:
Now lets be clear: Paulson said hundreds of banks could fail. Well, after several trillion dollars of taxpay aid we have not begun to approach this level. Ya so 19 here 20 there. We were promised massive failures. I want more failures.
rant off...back to regular programming...
Barley Fri Mar 20 20:54:07 2009 CDT #
Black Star Ranch says:
I've just listened to that Erin chick and the other CNBC idiot for the first time. How can they call themselves thinking commentators. Jeeminy - what morons. Sherman has the 100% right attitude - How did he get elected as a Democrat?
Black Star Ranch Fri Mar 20 20:55:05 2009 CDT #
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover says:
It would be interesting to see how many bank failures have branch locations. That really could multiply the true total of banks. =-O
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover Fri Mar 20 20:57:26 2009 CDT #
AIG is helping Al Qaeda says:
Excerpt from Wikipedia's article on bankruptcy:
"Bankruptcy is also documented in East Asia. According to al-Maqrizi, the Yassa of Genghis Khan contained a provision that mandated the death penalty for anyone who became bankrupt three times."
This makes me smile.
AIG is helping Al Qaeda Fri Mar 20 20:57:46 2009 CDT #
AIG is helping Al Qaeda says:
Or here is another idea:
"In ancient Greece, bankruptcy did not exist. If a father owed (since only locally born adult males could be citizens, it was fathers who were legal owners of property) and he could not pay, his entire family of wife, children and servants were forced into "debt slavery", until the creditor recouped losses via their physical labour. Many city-states in ancient Greece limited debt slavery to a period of five years and debt slaves had protection of life and limb, which regular slaves did not enjoy. However, servants of the debtor could be retained beyond that deadline by the creditor and were often forced to serve their new lord for a lifetime, usually under significantly harsher conditions."
By servants I'm sure they mean senior executives of AIG in this case.
Parent Post
AIG is helping Al Qaeda Fri Mar 20 20:59:13 2009 CDT #
Money Man says:
I've had it with the pity party...when did actually showing up and doing a good job mandate a f-ing bonus? The bonus is you get was to keep your job! Most of us did the exact same thing and were NEVER promised a bonus or even a paycheck. Self Employment and Entrepreneurship is a beach. Can I get on with Fraudie? -Just DAMN
Money Man Fri Mar 20 20:58:14 2009 CDT #
reptillian says:
I liked the "Sherminator"s idea that if the banks want capitalism, then they should give back all the alphabet-soup money.
The people can make a difference in this, too. They can withdraw their deposits from the "TBTF" banks. Sure, the banks carry the deposits as liabilities, but you can be sure that they are gambling with the people's deposits. When Merrill sold to BofA, they positively salivated over BofA's retail deposits. Don't forget, your deposits are just as well insured at a sound local/regional bank, by the FDIC. In fact, moving to a sounder bank may relieve some pressure on the FDIC.
reptillian Fri Mar 20 20:58:15 2009 CDT #
Counterpointer says:
As a former football player, try this folks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yU091YLgC9Q
C
Counterpointer Fri Mar 20 21:00:18 2009 CDT #
Tom in AZ says:
As another former rugger, that brings back a lot of memories.
Parent Post
Tom in AZ Fri Mar 20 23:01:31 2009 CDT #
blah says:
trillions trillions - filthy bankers take it all and we are left with the bill. lets do it again! and again! and again!
blah Fri Mar 20 21:01:46 2009 CDT #
Money Man says:
Oh and one more thing...You took the risk of mortgaging you family income by basing the salary structure on bonuses and commissions. I am truly sorry for the income loss...but he still has a job and thats better than an estimated 10-20% of the rest of us. Cowboy up and cut costs like the rest of us.
Money Man Fri Mar 20 21:02:44 2009 CDT #
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover says:
Commission jobs can pay extra (bonus) when goals are exceeded as normal pay. No different the over time but based on work out put.
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover Fri Mar 20 21:03:13 2009 CDT #
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) says:
Go after the top executives, the board....
Hey, we're all for that, no question about it. But what is it that you expect? Again, why should FNM/FRE be protected from outright failure? Why can't they be closed and the assets sold off just like what happens to most failed businesses?
It's happening to plenty of them and their employees right now, a lot of them through no fault of their own other than happening to be around for this Greater Depression.
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) Fri Mar 20 21:03:42 2009 CDT #
reptillian says:
So, that was "Erin?" Of CNBS fame?
On the Sherminator video?
I am so out of it; I don't have cable.
Some bankster must have brainwashed her.
reptillian Fri Mar 20 21:03:48 2009 CDT #
Comrade Kristina says:
LOL cs, he had some gems in that article. Think about this, all that info is now out there in the mainstream via RS...The part about the out of work stripper was nice too...
Comrade Kristina Fri Mar 20 21:04:04 2009 CDT #
blah says:
goldman sachs... if theres ever a bank that deserves to be punished...mmm never happen. they are basically the Fed.
blah Fri Mar 20 21:08:04 2009 CDT #
reptillian says:
Thanks, comrade kristina, for the rolling stone link.
reptillian Fri Mar 20 21:11:52 2009 CDT #
vozworth says:
hey, Money man is the one who said "Man Up"
If I were Bammy.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnF3UAQvk5E&feature=related
ok, Ill stop now.....no more server crashes.
vozworth Fri Mar 20 21:16:14 2009 CDT #
reptillian says:
Will Bernanke be canonized? By the pope?
reptillian Fri Mar 20 21:22:24 2009 CDT #
EvilHenryPaulson says:
Very Cool map/charts summarizing the newspaper industry in America
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/03/12/business/20090312-papers-graphic.html
EvilHenryPaulson Fri Mar 20 21:25:12 2009 CDT #
alex black says:
My sympthies to the spouse of the FNMA employee who isn't going to get his expected compensation this year, but there are others who evoke more of my sympathy. Friday is the day my weekly contribution to Doctors Without Borders is debited - they're fighting a cholera epidemic in Zimbabwe right now, where LOTS of men, women, and kids, who were also in the wrong place at the wrong time are struggling for their lives. You get my best wishes - but they get my money.
alex black Fri Mar 20 21:26:31 2009 CDT #
ATM card and $19 in the bank says:
I'm sorry. I am not seeing the hardship. The TARP bonus tax still leaves the employee with 10% of the bonus *and* an income of over $250,000.
From the text of the bill:
(1) IN GENERAL- The term `TARP bonus' means, with respect to any individual for any taxable year, the lesser of--
(A) the aggregate disqualified bonus payments received from covered TARP recipients during such taxable year,
or
(B) the excess of--
(i) the adjusted gross income of the taxpayer for such taxable year, over
(ii) $250,000 ($125,000 in the case of a married individual filing a separate return).
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c111:1:./temp/~c111xAR5DV::
ATM card and $19 in the bank Fri Mar 20 21:28:20 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
alex black,
I think you missed my point. I guess I didn't state it clearly. When you work all year to exceed goals and then you don't get it, you feel bad. But, that is just a notch. The real problem is the stigma, the venom being spilled at the regular joes just trying to do a good job. Who go in everyday with a good attitude to try to do something to help this country. When you shoot the good ones in the foot....
Anonymous Fri Mar 20 21:31:16 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
If the only problem is the venom, then just refuse the bonus and tell everyone. Voila! Your husband is a hero! He could probably make a bunch of money going on talk shows and doing interviews.
Problem solved.
Next.
Parent Post
Anonymous Fri Mar 20 22:16:33 2009 CDT #
Hazard says:
Anon, I really don't buy this. If your spouse worked there for 13 (THIRTEEN) years, he knew exactly what was going on. Deny it if you choose, but one would have to be PARTICULARLY tone deaf and COMPLETELY unaware politically (company-wise) not to be aware of whats going on with (and in) their company. Sorry (but not really).
Parent Post
Hazard Fri Mar 20 23:11:30 2009 CDT #
Rufus the Doofus says:
I'm sure there are lots of good people who have been forced to work at bad companies to feed their families. Then it turns out that the bad company is so bad that the workers don't get paid, and the families don't get fed. Just a bad situation all around.
Parent Post
Rufus the Doofus Fri Mar 20 23:20:52 2009 CDT #
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) says:
EHP,
Thanks for the link. I wish they'd put the LA Times out of it's misery. The only reporters they have left are, well, left. Their bias is only matched by their cluelessness.
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) Fri Mar 20 21:31:26 2009 CDT #
mp says:
Stocked-up on some nice pork loin today.
$1.79/lb.
mp Fri Mar 20 21:36:44 2009 CDT #
sm_landlord says:
mp writes;
"Stocked-up on some nice pork loin today."
Sounds like a good deal. Do you have a Costco nearby? They are selling USDA Prime for 1/4 of what the local supers are charging. We are stocking up our new freezer.
Parent Post
sm_landlord Fri Mar 20 22:14:12 2009 CDT #
lawn grass says:
"Stocked-up on some nice pork loin today.
$1.79/lb"
As long as you can keep juice to the freezer.
Parent Post
lawn grass Fri Mar 20 22:33:48 2009 CDT #
REBear says:
Sources: Geithner preparing plan to get toxic assets off banks' books with Fed and FDIC help
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/090320/bank_rescue.html?sec=topStories&pos=main&asset=TBD&ccode=TBD
>>
I want to be friends with Geithner.
REBear Fri Mar 20 21:37:14 2009 CDT #
Outsider says:
"VIVISECTION"
Otis, I think you've been living in FL too long. It can be a soul-less place.
Outsider Fri Mar 20 21:39:01 2009 CDT #
otishertz says:
outsider, i sold out of fl in 2005. but yes, i was there way too long.
Parent Post
otishertz Fri Mar 20 21:50:00 2009 CDT #
Basel Too says:
Geithner preparing plan to get toxic assets off banks' books with Fed and FDIC help
Every mortgage holder should have the option to purchase their mortgage at the discount rate...
Basel Too Fri Mar 20 21:39:17 2009 CDT #
rainyday says:
Anonymous,
That's what happens when you work for a failing company.
I have a number of friends who have lost their jobs - one couple who were laid off 24 hours apart - all good, effective, professional long time contributors to the success of the companies they worked for.
It makes no sense to use their tax dollars to prop up other failing firms.
rainyday Fri Mar 20 21:39:18 2009 CDT #
rich says:
If Geithner is preparing to announce a plan, it's going to be a bad week for stocks next week.
rich Fri Mar 20 21:41:35 2009 CDT #
rainyday says:
Every mortgage holder should have the option to purchase their mortgage at the discount rate...
absolutely.. Tanta would have known how to make a back office translate that into reality.
rainyday Fri Mar 20 21:42:12 2009 CDT #
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) says:
mp,
So, running any projects through your new machine shop yet?
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) Fri Mar 20 21:43:14 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
re: "The WSJ reports that the Geithner toxic asset plan might be announced on Monday:"
Now the NYT toxic asset article is out. This was my WTF moment:
"To entice private investors like hedge funds and private equity firms to take part, the F.D.I.C. will provide nonrecourse loans — that is, loans that are secured only by the value of the mortgage assets being bought — worth up to 85 percent of the value of a portfolio of troubled assets.
The remaining 15 percent will come from the government and the private investors. The Treasury would put up as much as 80 percent of that, while private investors would put up as little as 20 percent of the money, according to industry officials. Private investors, then, would be contributing as little as 3 percent of the equity, and the government as much as 97 percent."
WTF - Am I missing something here? We're supplying 97% of the money and the only collateral are the toxic assets themselves? The partner walks away and the taxpayer gets what? The toxic crap?
Why is this any different than just buying the friggin garbage outright?
I also questioned this:
"The government would receive interest payments on the money it lends to a partnership and it would share profits and losses on the equity portion of the investment with the private investors."
The interest payments they will just lower/eliminate in a few months anyway, but I wonder what kind "share" of the profits and losses the taxpayer will get. Since we're underwriting 97% of the cost, and if I know these guys, my guess is we'll get 10% of the profits and 90% of the losses.
I always assumed the taxpayer would eat it all in the end, so no surprises here.
The story says most believe there's about $2T of crap left and it looks like this round only shoves another $1T down the gullet of the American taxpayer.
I wonder what they have in store for the final trillion...
Anonymous Fri Mar 20 21:43:57 2009 CDT #
reptillian says:
We'll need to stay up later when the banks in Alasks and Hawaii fail. Anyone waiting on Guam?
reptillian Fri Mar 20 21:46:11 2009 CDT #
mock turtle says:
three banks fail, two credit unions under, and a toxic asset plan in a pear tree...
a fairly quiet friday by future standards, dont you think?
(hey hey hey... guess what, as i keyboard this,
an economist, lou mandell, on local pbs station,kcts 9 seattle, in the background, recommends having several thousand dollars on hand, physically, hidden in or around house and some can goods stocked up
he reasures us that in the event of a total melt down we will recover soon (ha)
and such an event is unlikely...but he emphasizes an ounce of prevention...
mock turtle Fri Mar 20 21:46:13 2009 CDT #
mp says:
@tj
No, but some are in the pipeline. We don't have 3-phase here, so son of mp is working on a larger converter for the machines. We're still organizing everything, cleaning-up and setting up machines.
mp Fri Mar 20 21:47:18 2009 CDT #
blah says:
Basel Too says:
Today, 9:39:17 PM
“Geithner preparing plan to get toxic assets off banks' books with Fed and FDIC help
Every mortgage holder should have the option to purchase their mortgage at the discount rate...
that will never happen. they need that monthly mortgage slave to support the banks. the bailouts are essentially the banks writeoff for those who default or went bankrupt. for the rest of us, we keep paying our slavemasters. the major banking powers will never go bankrupt... but we will as always.
blah Fri Mar 20 21:47:34 2009 CDT #
ATM card and $19 in the bank says:
"Every mortgage holder should have the option to purchase their mortgage at the discount rate..."
Basel Too,
If you don't mind kicking that idea around a bit...
Earlier Rob Dawg suggested that w/r/t FDIC takeovers there should be a provision for homeowners to enjoy a right of first refusal for their own mortgage, but only if they were current. He saw twin incentives there -- the acquirer has an incentive to make a higher bid so it won't lose the quality mortgages in the pool and the homeowner has an incentive to stay current.
As to your suggestion, if a homeowner stays current, then the asset isn't toxic and there won't be any discount. If your suggestion does not require homeowners to be current, then aren't you fostering moral hazard whereby homeowners deliberately stop paying in order to turn their mortgage into a toxic asset?
ATM card and $19 in the bank Fri Mar 20 21:48:38 2009 CDT #
Under a big W says:
I wonder what they have in store for the final trillion
------------------------------------------------------
It's like this....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlCb41nelD8
Under a big W Fri Mar 20 21:49:33 2009 CDT #
Basel Too says:
As to your suggestion, if a homeowner stays current, then the asset isn't toxic and there won't be any discount.
The MBS is considered toxic based on the *overall* performance of the underlying mortgages. If a private investor is going to pay between 30-60% of book value for these assets, I can't imagine all every single mortgage in the security is non-current.
Basel Too Fri Mar 20 22:01:56 2009 CDT #
Elrod says:
Of course every single underlying mortgage is not in default. But the MBS is so sliced and diced that nobody knows just what portion is good and what is not. That's why these securities are somewhere between zero and 100%. It's all guesswork, really, based on anticipated growth in the housing market.
But even there you have uncertainty. A mortgage in default and heavily underwater is different than a mortgage in default because the borrower lost his job. Resale of Asset A might be futile for a very long time. But for Asset B it could be immediate. When Mortgage A and B are smashed together in the same tranche, how does the buyer know what it's worth? How does he know the expected cash flow?
Parent Post
Elrod Sat Mar 21 00:30:46 2009 CDT #
kicker says:
Does the term "toxic assets" grate on anybody's nerves?
Default rates are going through the roof on construction loans, credit cards, small business loans, CRE and even plain-vanilla MBS. What's left?
Are they really so stupid that they believe they can ring-fence a couple of CDO's and all this will go away?
kicker Fri Mar 20 22:08:29 2009 CDT #
REBear says:
local news:
AIG told employees not to display company logo for safety reasons.
Protestors to gather at AIG executives home tomorrow after bonus reciepients names were made public.
AIG gives employees until Monday 5PM to decide on what what they plan to do with their bonus.
REBear Fri Mar 20 22:09:40 2009 CDT #
ATM card and $19 in the bank says:
"The MBS is considered toxic based on the *overall* performance of the underlying mortgages."
Putting my ruthless hat on, if I think that my mortgage is in a pool or pools that will be sold, and I will have a right of first refusal based on the discount rate, wouldn't I want to sabotage the pool and lower that rate? That is where I see folks who are now current (and are now propping up the 30-60% price you indicated for the pool) deciding not to be current anymore.
ATM card and $19 in the bank Fri Mar 20 22:11:51 2009 CDT #
bobn says:
Protestors give AIG employees until Monday at 5:01PM to decide what to do with their lives.
bobn Fri Mar 20 22:12:15 2009 CDT #
bobn says:
This crap never ends until some high-living scumbags get heavy jailtime or become victims of vigilantes.
bobn Fri Mar 20 22:14:18 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Here's how it works in the real world.
A couple of years ago I was employed at a company that went BK. As an employee my salary (last pay period) and vacation pay made me a creditor at the top of the the pile. I got 20c on the dollar.
I now work at a company with a bonus structure equal to 15% of yearly salary. Bonus is split 60/40 between how my division does and how the company as a whole does. During the 2000 downturn no-one at the company got a bonus regardless of how their division did as we lost money as a company.
Bonuses are just that, bonuses. If the company is losing money I do not expect to get a bonus.
A company that requires government intervention to stay afloat is at a minimum running at a loss and most likely bankrupt. Why any employee at one of the above companies would even expect a bonus is beyond me.
Anonymous Fri Mar 20 22:16:05 2009 CDT #
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) says:
If the only problem is the venom, then just refuse the bonus and tell everyone.
Brilliant! I smell an Oprah appearance...
Comrade Bear (tj and the bear) Fri Mar 20 22:19:48 2009 CDT #
d4of11 says:
reptillian says:Today,
We'll need to stay up later when the banks in Alasks and Hawaii fail.
maybe the rest of planet earth is connected to america but alaska is doing just fine by itself (so to speak).
d4of11 Fri Mar 20 22:20:14 2009 CDT #
bobn says:
I smell an Oprah appearance
That's just not right.
bobn Fri Mar 20 22:21:01 2009 CDT #
REBear says:
What if Shiti banksters bought some fine NYC Real Estate with their bonus?
REBear Fri Mar 20 22:21:22 2009 CDT #
sm_landlord says:
To the Anonymous whose husband is losing the FNMA bonus:
Sorry about your situation, but this is something I learned back in 1989: stock options, bonuses, etc. are meaningless unless they are written into your employment contract. If you plan to actually collect, you need an airtight contract vetted by your own lawyer, who can tell you what you will actually collect in a lawsuit. Do not plan on collecting anything that you do not have a firm basis to sue for, or you *will* be disappointed.
The bonus/options game can be played to your advantage if you have a good lawyer on your side *before* you sign the employment contract. You *must* have a negotiated, written employment contract if you plan to collect anything beyond your base salary as an employee.
A solid employment contract puts you at the head of the line to collect, even in a BK situation.
Everything else is just hot air and promises.
sm_landlord Fri Mar 20 22:23:27 2009 CDT #
sm_landlord says:
Hmmm. Hot Air and Promises. I may have to do another version of this one:
http://therandominium.blogspot.com/2008/10/stock-traders-lament.html
What do you think?
Parent Post
sm_landlord Fri Mar 20 22:27:34 2009 CDT #
lawn grass says:
no problem
lawn grass Fri Mar 20 22:28:47 2009 CDT #
HarshRealty says:
Individually, my spouse, like 90% of the people that might get affected did their jobs, often well. They were not responsible for the policy or the poor decisions made by the 10%.
I want my dotcom job and bonuses back too. I'll send you my address and you and your husband can send me monthly checks, deal?
HarshRealty Fri Mar 20 22:33:42 2009 CDT #
mp says:
sm_landlord- "Do you have a Costco nearby?"
Unfortunately, no.
mp Fri Mar 20 22:35:05 2009 CDT #
The Fly says:
Maybe a possibility would be to roll over this stuff ino some type of fund. How about:
The Toxic Asset Growth Fund
The Fly Fri Mar 20 22:36:47 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Yves:
Gillian Tett: "Where is Gordon Gekko when you really need him?"???
CRbot Fri Mar 20 22:37:53 2009 CDT #
ATM card and $19 in the bank says:
Re: The Toxic Asset Growth Fund
I read that as The Toxic Mold Growth Fund.
All those poorly-built REOs sitting empty as we head into summer...
ATM card and $19 in the bank Fri Mar 20 22:51:31 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Amateur hour in Washington.
Anonymous Fri Mar 20 22:52:17 2009 CDT #
Samdog says:
Comrade Kristina,
Thanks for that hilarious RS piece--too bad for taxpayers the tragic end is becoming all-too-real: we've been betrayed by a Judas-infested Congress and Fed. The vaults stand open and empty--raided bare by a corrupt and arrogant pack of Wall Street frat boys.
Now the taxpayer is left holding the bag, which--unfortunatly--is empty. And our grandchildren willing still be paying to finance the retention bonuses of long dead, failed financial executives. .
Samdog Fri Mar 20 22:53:16 2009 CDT #
mock turtle says:
comrade kristina at 18:28:26 recommended an article to us in RS
just finished it...outstanding summary and some detail i didnt know about how the barbarians stormed the gate
excellent history, must read
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/26793903/the_big_takeover
mock turtle Fri Mar 20 22:55:04 2009 CDT #
ScroogeMcDuck says:
Russia met representatives of China, India and Brazil ahead of the G20 finance ministers meeting last week, to discuss a new currency
http://www.reuters.com/article/usDollarRpt/idUSLJ93633020090319
ScroogeMcDuck Fri Mar 20 22:56:59 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Jesse:
Here Comes Timmy's Toxic Asset Clearance Sale
CRbot Fri Mar 20 23:12:38 2009 CDT #
Rob Dawg says:
Counterpointer says:Today, 7:00:18 PM PDT
As a former football player, try this folks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yU091YLgC9Q
#8 and scrum-half here. When do we play Team AIG?
Rob Dawg Fri Mar 20 23:20:19 2009 CDT #
Counterpointer says:
Played No 8, great position, Tom in Az. Very freewheeling from forwards and backs.
Not that I was any good at it. Just had fun running into people.
C
Counterpointer Fri Mar 20 23:25:06 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
New Thread: Late Night Music: "Hey Paul Krugman"
http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2009/03/late-night-music-hey-paul-krugman.html ( 0 comments ...You could be FIRST! )
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It won't be a ... stylish marriage.
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I'm sorry Ben, I can't let you do that...
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--Your systemic-failure-crashing bot
CRbot: Call me HAL.
CRbot Fri Mar 20 23:28:37 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
A bit of information about US CENTRAL FEDERAL CREDIT UNION POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE (U.S. CENTRAL PAC) -
http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/committees/us-central-federal-credit-union-political-action-committee-u-s-central-pac.asp?cycle=08
Seems a mixed laundry list of dirty socks and unmentionables, but it also appears they thought the Democrats would win in 2008.
Anonymous Sat Mar 21 00:47:43 2009 CDT #
Tom Stone says:
Lovely thread.I spent the evening in a sweat lodge with a mad sculptor (God struck several years ago),a blues harmonica player,a physicist and a recovering junkie who used to be a nun.I like california at times.
Tom Stone Sat Mar 21 01:04:32 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
I have ZERO sympathy for anyone who worked at Fannie/Freddie/AIG/Citi/BAC who will get their bonus clawed back.
I worked for a bank that got taken over by the FDIC, and had an employment contract that guaranteed me a bonus. And guess what? The FDIC tore up that contract in order to "facilitate the sale of the bank." Guess they have the right to do that under FIRREA. You see, canceling contracts is not unconstitutional in some situations.
At first I was kind of ticked off, but then, when I thought of it, I was like "well, I worked for a failed company that cost the taxpayers money, I don't deserve that money". Live by the sword, die by the sword.
What is the difference between my bank and Fannie/Freddie/AIG/etc? Not a damn thing, really, except these companies were too big to fail, and mine was not. Does that mean their employees should get paid and I didn't? Nope, in fact, arguably I had more rights, because my company's failure was smaller, and immediate, the price was paid and the FDIC moved on (it literally happens in hours).
I do feel a bit sorry for employees of JPM and WFC, because they did not need to TARP money, but they should blame their CEOs, not the government. I know they took the money "for the good of the system", but they should have been thinking of the good of their shareholders and employees first and foremost, and refused the TARP money. The whole concept was ridiculous: everyone knew who REALLY needed the money, making WFC take some didn't fool anyone that it was really Citi that was being bailed out.
Anonymous Sat Mar 21 02:23:20 2009 CDT #
foo says:
I wouldn't be so sure that JPM and WFC don't "need" TARP. Look at what they do not what they say.
Parent Post
foo Sat Mar 21 14:00:37 2009 CDT #
END