LMFAO @ mark to market allowing them to report a $2.5 billion gain after all that whining by Forbes and Gingrich
"So when do they pay back the TARP money? "
That is sooooo mean 
LMFAO @ mark to market allowing them to report a $2.5 billion gain after all that whining by Forbes and Gingrich
When Mortgage Pigs fly.
First profit in 18 months, eh? Must be because the unemployment rate is dropping quickly, right?
----
"no one is pricing in low, mid teens unemployment in any of their assumptions." - Meredith Whitney
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All the big boys, except Wells, made all their money trading. Trading junk to AIG for full cash payment? Sustainable? The writedowns begin again soon
Returning the TARP money doesn't help CitiGroup because they still have the ring fenced assets. I'm not sure if they have to let those assets run off or if there is some other means of ending the ring fencing. The same is true of the ring fence Merril assets for Bank of America.
To add to my comments from the previous thread - so, mark-to-market has been suspended for assets, but still saves the day for liabilities.
And I thought torture of logic and common sense was banned under the new administration.
"So when do they pay back the TARP money? "
That is sooooo mean
And if their health improves, they'll have to MTM losses on their own bonds as they trade higher.
TBTF doctrine is now effectively guaranteeing our banks, their depositors, and their investors - equity and bond.
TBTF is itself possible due to the full-faith-and-credit of the government to borrow money.
Lets see how long this can go. We have the biggest capital misallocation known to mankind being held up because the government is afraid of the alternative. Or alternatively, the current beneficiaries have convinced the government that any alternative would be devastating. No matter how wrong they are, it appears no one has the will, power or conviction to stop it.
Just like all bubble, the TBTF bubble will pop when no more suckers can be brought into it.
CR and his readers were discussing the housing bubble years before it popped.
Any guess on how long TBTF lasts? Or alternatively how long the Treasury bubble lasts?
OT: this rattner story has the potential to make the Detroit mess 10X worse than it already is. no way is the uaw going to bow to a possibly corrupt financier. so much for the vaunted vetting process.
"Under the rule, companies are allowed to record any declines in the market value of their own debt as an unrealized gain."
Can someone please translate that into English??
"Any guess on how long TBTF lasts? Or alternatively how long the Treasury bubble lasts?"
.....As long as the sheeple keep financing it?
- - - - -
Black 
Ranch
Accounting is wonderful.
To repeat and amplify a comment in a thread of yesterday, Bof A is offering to settle my client's 2nd mtg debt--not paid for about a year--for 25 cents on the dollar. And he wants even less. This will put him a nostril's worth above water, and motivate him to bring the first (with BankU, cough, cough) current. A detail not mentioned. If you only have 10k, they will partly settle--so if you owed 100k, you pay 10 and now only owe 60k. Of course, this may be foolish, as you may still be underwater (my client would be, but much less). It may be this is a ploy to get loans restarted. Some will fall for this. But if you can get yourself even, or in sight of the water's surface, this may be a great deal.
Spread the word.
lawyerlizinMI today.
Nobody believes these numbers, but in the words of one of my former bosses we are all "playing along " I hear there are openings at The Ministry of Information.
Gosbank never has loss.
"Under the rule, companies are allowed to record any declines in the market value of their own debt as an unrealized gain."
Can someone please translate that into English??
Let's say you had a bond that would pay $100 ten years from now. Last year, say the bond was worth $60. Now, because of your crappy performance, the bond is only worth $10. In effect, you've "earned" $50, because you could've retired the debt by buying it for $10 (ignore the TVM part).
Moin from Germany,
@Dr Munch
"All the big boys, except Wells, made all their money trading. Trading junk to AIG for full cash payment? Sustainable? The writedowns begin again soon"
Wells Fargo's Profit Looks Too Good to Be True: Jonathan Weil
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=a6sv0hG.nW7g&refer=home
Wells Fargo & Co. stunned the world last week by proclaiming it had just finished its most profitable quarter ever. This will go down as the moment when lots of investors decided it was safe again to place blind faith in a big bank's earnings.
What sent Wells shares soaring on April 9 was a three-page press release in which the San Francisco-based bank said it expected to report first-quarter net income of about $3 billion. Wells disclosed few details of what was in that figure. And by pushing the stock up 32 percent that day to $19.61, investors sent a clear message: They didn't care....
Look at Wells's Dec. 31 balance sheet, and you'll see a $109.8 billion line item called "other assets." What's in that number? For that breakdown, you need to go to a footnote in Wells's financial statements. And here's where it gets comical.
The footnote says the largest component was a $44.2 billion bucket that Wells labeled as "other." Yes, that's right: The biggest portion of "other assets" was "other." And what did this include? The disclosure didn't say. Neither would Bernard.
Talk about a black box. That $44.2 billion is more than Wells's tangible common equity, even using the bank's dodgy number. And we don't have a clue what's in there.
The entire link is a must read.... For me the reaction to the news is clearly a sign that the euphoria level is close to a high.....
JP Morgan raised non-FDIC insured capital yesterday:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=ambfNbYyynHY
Since previous bond-holders have not been punished, I would imagine that whether the bond is FDIC insured or not matters less than it might have last fall. Afterall, we know that the goverment will step in and offer its ample bosom as it did to Citi and BoA.
TBTF is the new mantra.
I think we need to determine what that means to the investing lanscape for the next few years. My thoughts: jobs are key. If job losses continue, the losses at banks will and therefore the drawdown against US guarantees will continue. But if the confidence being developed now stems losses, perhaps we can continue our dance-party albeit at a slower rate?
Citi announces a profit! Now I know why Hell froze over today!!!
Well Boy Howdy Hell, I need to get me a boat load of Citi shares today. These boys are a steal at this price. Yee Haw!! Green-shooted pastureland as far as the eye can see with of wealth of glimmering hope shining on it from above.
I think we need to determine what that means to the investing lanscape for the next few years.
massive inflation, given that the Fed doesn't have an exit strategy for the non-cash equivalent holdings on its balance sheet, if (when) they fail?
The biggest portion of "other assets" was "other."
There is nothing to fear, but fear itself.
.............................
If you don't take your profits, someone else will.
Why can't GM and Chrysler hire Citi's accountants?
what does it say about America that GameStop has affirmed its full year guidance?
I don't quite understand the game these banks are playing. Won't this make it hard for the USG to allocate any more bailout funds to banks?
9:15 ET BRIEFING.COM] S&P futures vs fair value: -1.80. Nasdaq futures vs fair value: -10.30. Heading into this session, stocks have managed to climb 1.0% week-to-date. That gain has come on the back of late-session rally efforts on Wednesday and Thursday. The rallies were helped along by some short-covering. This morning's indication is that the major indices will open flat, uninspired by better-than-expected earnings results from General Electric (GE) and Google (GOOG), and a more shallow loss-than-feared from Citigroup (C). The question, then, is whether another afternoon rally will surface to help stocks close the week on a strong note.
http://www.briefing.com/Investor/Public/MarketSnapshot/StockMarketUpdate...
.............................
If you don't take your profits, someone else will.
We should create a new adjective for describing man-made concepts that are beyond ridiculous.. any suggestions?
Citi
JPM
GS
WFC
BoA
BNYM
or Timmy, Bernie, Greenspend... any more ideas?
"... companies are allowed to record any declines in the market value of their own debt as an unrealized gain."
Next they'll be calling off the depression --guess I won't be needing Rob Dawg's recipe for roast squirrel with slug and sawdust stuffing....
Lucifer,
As in Space Balls, Both Ludicrous Speed and Going-Plad come to mind.
--bh
companies are allowed to record any declines in the market value of their own debt as an unrealized gain.
i don't really see anything nefarious about that, especially since the IRS will tax one's own debt retirement as income.
Black-box accounting, as jmf noted earlier for Well's is like NINJA-lending. It's the best-sign that T-bills will be shredded, and the beast of inflation is nigh...
--bh
If accounting rule changes can help Shiti make an imaginary profit, why not GM, Chrysler... and everyone else.......
Ponies for everyone!!
thanks basel too.
I would feel better if they could only record it if they actually bought back the debt. But I guess that would be called a "realized gain" not an "unrealized gain".
2.5 billion of it. More than the profit itself. Where can I get into this funny math business?
Gamestop was one of the companies I sold in Fall, 07, when it was in the high 50s. Should I buy back in?
GE, which I erroneously thought mostly made light bulbs and jet engines, I kept. I hope have 100 shares anyway. It's been to much of a bother to sell.
Is it that anyone actually believes these figures, or is it that somebody thinks that some other dumber somebodies believe these figures and so they should buy in?
Anon above was me.
Lawyerliz.
NPR planting the seed. I wouldn't be surprized to see something like this in the near future. Manufactured Zeitgeists.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=103186662
In 1927, Donald Huffman was a student at the Bath School in Bath Township, Mich.
Bath was "a little farm town. Had [an] elevator, a little drugstore, and you knew everybody within 20 miles," Huffman says. "Back then, that's the way it was."
Near the end of the school year, on May 18, an explosion ripped through the Bath School. Huffman lost one eye and part of his cheekbone, suffered compound fractures, and ended up with "lots of scars, lots of scars all over. I was just messed up." He was 9 years old.
Andrew Kehoe, a local farm owner who was also the school's caretaker, had planted the bomb at the school. Kehoe had been angry about property taxes used to fund the school. He burned down his farm that day, and then blew up his car, killing himself and five other people.
The total death toll in the Bath School disaster was 45, including Kehoe. Thirty-eight of those killed were children. Huffman remembers one family that lost three children that day.
Borocco Mama wrote on Fri, 04/17/2009 - 6:34am.
NPR planting the seed. I wouldn't be surprized to see something like this in the near future. Manufactured Zeitgeists.
Shock doctrine. They need to excite a couple dead-enders into doing their business for them so they have an excuse.
why don't they just do us a favor and abolish FASB all together?
here's an oldie but goodie... a vid mash-up on Citi from months ago... soundtrack is
We Built this City by Starship... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPfbXFf4g2k
if I have the time I'd like to make it current but heh....
What a fantastic headline Citi "Announces" a profit. Well done.
A limit down day would be fitting for the CNBC ponzi-bration.
Need to break out the NASDAQ 5000 celebration tapes.
CR... one complaint about the new system.... you have to create a password as though
you're handling secrets at Los Alamos.... it's just a blog, or is it now?
"I hear there are openings at The Ministry of Information."
The memory hole?
Pavel Chichikov
The loudest have the final say,
The wanton win, the rash hold sway,
The realist's rules of order say
The drunken driver has the right of way.
The Kubla Khan can butt in line;
The biggest brute can take what's mine;
When heavyweights break wind, that's fine;
No matter what a judge might say,
The drunken driver has the right of way.
The guiltiest feel free of guilt;
Who care not, bloom; who worry, wilt;
Plans better laid are rarely built
For forethought seldom wins the day;
The drunken driver has the right of way.
The most attentive and unfailing
Carefulness is unavailing
Wheresoever fools are flailing;
Wisdom there is held at bay; The drunken driver has the right of way.
De jure is de facto's slave;
The most foolhardy beat the brave;
Brass routs restraint; low lies high's grave;
When conscience leads you, it's astray;
The drunken driver has the right of way.
It's only the naivest who'll
Deny this, that the reckless rule;
When facing an oncoming fool
The practiced and sagacious say
Watch out - one side - look sharp - gang way.
However much you plan and pray,
Alas, alack, tant pis, oy vey,
Now - heretofore - til Judgment Day,
The drunken driver has the right of way.
Ethan Coen
I am beginning to suspect that some of these Bankers lack probity...it is either that ,or all of these banks are above average.
Tom Stone
"why don't they just do us a favor and abolish FASB all together?"
Coming soon via convergence with IASB.
it's a little late for April Fools.
"Alas, alack, tant pis, oy vey,
Now - heretofore - til Judgment Day,
The drunken driver has the right of way.
Ethan Coen "
That's first class satiric verse.
Pavel Chichikov
If Citi realized gains of $2.5b trading then that means somebody (everybody) else lost $2.5b. Why would anyone knowingly trade with the likes of them and their track record?
The smell of cooking the books in the morning, makes me hungry for breakfast!
Pavel, I don't see it as Satire as much as dark, biting humor.
Either way, it's briliant.
Borocco Mama wrote on Fri, 04/17/2009 - 6:34am.
NPR planting the seed. I wouldn't be surprized to see something like this in the near future. Manufactured Zeitgeists.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=103186662
In 1927, Donald Huffman was a student at the Bath School in Bath Township, Mich.
Bath was "a little farm town. Had [an] elevator, a little drugstore, and you knew everybody within 20 miles," Huffman says. "Back then, that's the way it was."
Near the end of the school year, on May 18, an explosion ripped through the Bath School. Huffman lost one eye and part of his cheekbone, suffered compound fractures, and ended up with "lots of scars, lots of scars all over. I was just messed up." He was 9 years old.
Andrew Kehoe, a local farm owner who was also the school's caretaker, had planted the bomb at the school. Kehoe had been angry about property taxes used to fund the school. He burned down his farm that day, and then blew up his car, killing himself and five other people.
The total death toll in the Bath School disaster was 45, including Kehoe. Thirty-eight of those killed were children. Huffman remembers one family that lost three children that day.
NPR planting the seed? Try Fox News and their militia-recruiting field day this week.
test.
lawyerliz--finance the REOs.
The drunken driver has the right of way...
That IS classic satiric verse, to second Mr. Chichikov.
Ya know; at least they are telling us they are using a marked deck. At least we can't complain we haven't been told.
.............................
If you don't take your profits, someone else will.
Last time I checked BankUnited, in was, like, 19 cents. Now it's 33 cents.
Why?
Listening to the financial segment on NPR yesterday.
The guy reported a healthy bounce.
Why are bounces always healthy.
Wouldn't a 100 point drop be healthy if the mkt is oversold?
It will never be reported that way, not even on NPR.
lawyerliz--finance the REOs.
I'm shocked, SHOCKED to see Citi is reporting profits!!!
Fed mulls taking wider array of collateral: source
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Federal Reserve is considering expanding one of its lending programs to include commercial mortgage-backed securities with terms longer than three years, a Fed official said on Friday.
This will cheer up everybody holding SRS. Me included. Gulp.
For FFDIC and popeye,
a recording has surfaced of Susan Boyle singing an unbelievable version of Cry Me a River....listen to it while you digest the Citi and GE news....
NPR planting the seed? Try Fox News and their militia-recruiting field day this week.
See, egg already laid in your head. It's "inevitable" and you already know how to point your finger. Isn't the shock doctrine easy?
SUCKER!
NPR planting the seed? Try Fox News and their militia-recruiting field day this week.
See, egg already laid in your head. It's "inevitable" and you already know how to point your finger. Isn't the shock doctrine easy?
SUCKER!
accounting is proving to more profitable than expected...
The NPR Bath school story is there b/c it is the 10th anniversary of Columbine, nothing more.
curious (member) wrote on Fri, 04/17/2009 - 7:04am.
Fed mulls taking wider array of collateral: source
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Federal Reserve is considering expanding one of its lending programs to include commercial mortgage-backed securities with terms longer than three years, a Fed official said on Friday.
Next week; dead mice, used prophylactics, promises of the night before.
fried,
thank you
.............................
If you don't take your profits, someone else will.
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Well it's good news Friday and now we all wait for the FDIC normal Friday update. Please citi made money because of eron accounting changes it worked for them it will work for us.
jo6pac
I thought Susan Boyle was a joke. My God! What a freaking voice!
http://afterthecrash.net - Home of the Doomer Story Portal and Other Stuff
Uncle Ar wrote on Fri, 04/17/2009 - 7:08am.
The NPR Bath school story is there b/c it is the 10th anniversary of Columbine, nothing more.
Uh huh. And why do we celebrate the 10 year anniversary? Oh right, currently in the midst of a shock doctrine gun control media blitz. Maybe we can work Columbine into the "flood of guns to Mexico" meme.
NPR planting the seed? Try Fox News and their militia-recruiting field day this week.
Most definately. The MSM, including NPR, are fabricating a Zeitgeist, wittingly, or unwittingly.
Borocco Mama wrote on Fri, 04/17/2009 - 7:14am.
Most definately. The MSM, including NPR, are fabricating a Zeitgeist, wittingly, or unwittingly.
Coverage of people running amok encourages emulative behavior. Yet the "responsible" media covers it with breathless attention.
If "responsible" means "answerable for their actions" then there's not much question that the people they answer to want panic and fear as a cover for their policies. "We had to cancel elections, things were getting... OUT OF CONTROL."
If Coen's Drunk Driver poem is satire, what vice or folly is being assailed?
IMO, that poem is a direct indictment of those who seek to control outcomes. He explicitly states, in skillfully poetic prose, with some injection of black, biting humor, that for all our attempts to control, chaos wins in the end. He's right. We live in a world of entropy. We have created a system that attempts to defeat that entropy, but it's futile. There's nothing round-a-bout in his message. He couldn't be more direct.
Less tin foil hattishly:
Lincoln Steffens, 50? 100? years ago, with his journalist buddies decided, for amusement value to create a crime wave. So, they simply reported all the crimes they could find out about--no lies, no exaggerations. They just normally didn't report them all, 'cause it wasn't that interesting. huge hue and cry.
So they toned it down, and the crime wave went away.
No, the media have NEVER been responsible.
lawyerliz--finance the REOs.
"NPR planting the seed? Try Fox News and their militia-recruiting field day this week"
So, moral equivalance between a crazed bomber who killed innocent children and US citizens exercising their Constitutional right to peaceably assemble and petition the government for redress of grievances?
Is that you, Janet?
/signed, right wing extremist militia cookie baking grandma
"their Constitutional right to peaceably assemble and petition the government for redress of grievances?"
Yeah, sure but your kinds of people were mightily silent about Gitmo and torture...but guess you numnuts always will vote or demostrate against your own interest....always. After all, Jesus is coming soon for the second time to smite those eevil libruls, right?
"So when do they pay back the TARP money?"
Funny.
It is obvious: as soon as they can accumulate enough losses so the accountants can call them 'gains'... and convince the Treasury those are good as gold.
After a huge bailout.. Citi is fully back into profit.
Their new division (TBaC) "Taxpayer Bilking and Conning" scored record profits. Next quarter results will be depending on how much more money they can weasel out of the govt.
Everyone's a Winner !