So how much value does a ponzi scheme create?
How can you raise prices if your competitor wants market share?
yogi, you're sounding like you went to the U of Chicago 
So how much value does a ponzi scheme create?
Who is this Bernanke guy anyway? Hopefully not anyone in a position of responsibility.
Hey this was the USA , now it is Bernie Madoff country. Screw or be screwed.
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Bernanke is addicted to financial crack. Same language as any other junkie.
HAL : I'm afraid. I'm afraid, Dave. Dave, my mind is going. (CHONG : Dave's not here.)
"[W]ith hindsight, we can see that something went wrong in recent years..."
Until they recognize that the debt bubble was building for decades, I see little chance for any long term improvement.
Here's an interesting graph:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2009/02/household_debt_vs_gdp.html
Even if the S&P 500 went to 400 tomorrow, I don't know if I would have the confidence to buy equities.
Ben will be the first one against the wall when the revolution comes....
Innovation??? We can't even come up with a logical system to distribute the wasted stimulus....
BOSTON (AP) - Some leaders of towns are saying the federal stimulus package is neglecting the cornerstones of community life.
They say there's plenty of money for things like highways and solar panels but little or none to build new town halls, swimming pools, community centers or police stations.
Many local officials hoped the money would arrive in huge blocks with few strings. In the end, Congress opted to funnel much of the money through existing federal channels.
The scale and complexity of the stimulus package has added to the confusion.
For instance, state officials were first told there would be no money to build schools. They later found out the construction of new elementary and high schools is allowed.
Greenlander, don't you mean when you are king?
HAL : I'm afraid. I'm afraid, Dave. Dave, my mind is going. (CHONG : Dave's not here.)
Bernanke Deserves Credit - For Chutzpah:
In my mind's eye, I envision a street fair-one of those happy community gatherings at which sellers of handcrafted ceramics, funky clothing, herbal remedies, fresh vegetables, and edible delicacies congregate to display their wares for the strolling customers, who chat amiably with the stall-keepers and with one another. Suddenly, amid horrified shrieks and the roar of a giant engine, a truck plows through this placid setting, scattering twisted debris and broken bodies in its wake. Finally, after wreaking a hundred-yard swath of death and devastation, the truck stops, and the driver, Ben Bernanke, climbs down from the cab.
"People, people," he exhorts them in a calm, world-weary voice, "do not panic. I am here to assess the damage and make recommendations for reforms that will prevent a recurrence of this unfortunate and wholly unforeseen act of God." Whereupon he proceeds to lay out his assessment and recommendations, always speaking in the same quiet, unemotional voice. The stunned and wounded survivors gaze at him in astonishment. "He's a madman," one cries out.
Undismayed by the swelling chorus of curses and the groans of the injured, the truck driver addresses the gathering crowd of stunned onlookers. "We must have a strategy that regulates the street-fair system as a whole . . . not just its individual components." He then methodically lays out a series of recommendations for strengthening the construction materials of stalls and regulating their placement along the street, for ensuring that each transient merchant have an adequate capital cushion against such crises, for monitoring fruitmongers and hippy artists deemed "too big to fail," to keep them from taking excessive risk. He proposes that the city council consider new ordinances to require that wooden crafts such a birdhouses be made sturdier and to establish a "limited system of insurance" to protect against customer runs on the most daring drug-paraphernalia sellers.
"Moreover," he continues, "street fairs are too important to be left for each town to regulate on an ad hoc basis." He proposes that the rules be harmonized among the mayors of all the world's great cities and that a global street-fair authority be created to monitor street-fair risks and protect the people from accidents such as the one that has just occurred. Listeners look on in amazement, their mouths agape.
With that walk on the imaginary side as a warmup, I invite you to consider the speech Bernanke gave to the Council on Foreign Relations today, March 10, 2009. In this address, he proposes a sweeping overhaul of the regulation of "the financial system as a whole . . . not just its individual components." According to the Associated Press report,
This is why the SEC needs to be reformed and expanded. The FED cannot be trusted as a regulator.
Rattner, an actual investment banker and the govt. rep in carmaker proceedings, must be doing too good a job. We couldn't have a mind like that working on the "final solution" for the banks now could we?
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=afB9Nsc3iSfY&refer=home
You can innovate by engineering new things, or taking existing stuff and finding new uses for it.
Financial innovation is about hiding risk. Not eliminating it, but hiding it. When the shell game ends it blows up.
Nostrovia,
Hindsight's the new foresight.
Micheal no it is the USSA. Be in politics/government or in poverty
"Too much debt driven by too much leverage and too many exotic products? I feel your pain. Hi, I'm Ben Bernanke and I have a solution. All we need is more debt at higher leverage via even more exotic financial products. Remember, I'm from the government and I'm here to help you."
If the revolution ever did happen (it never will), Greenspan's body should be exhumed and dragged through the streets like Mussolini's.
shorter BB: keep your eye on your ass while cliff diving
Anymouse, as a street vendor myself, I gotta say that was fucking brilliant.
Only thing I'd add is that the truck was delivering chits from downtown to Lichtenstein.
Sounds like he is trying to defend all his "financial innovation" of the last couple of years.
ReVette,
"Sounds like he is trying to defend all his "financial innovation" of the last couple of years."
That would be self serving. B.S. Bernutty is a man of the people.
Nostrovia,
Ben's an Anarchist Primitivist.
WASHINGTON (AP) - A federal appeals court ruled Friday that the Bush administration did not properly study the environmental impact of expanding oil and gas drilling off the Alaska coast and canceled a program to find new reserves. A three-judge panel in Washington found that the Bush-era Interior Department failed to consider the effect on the environment and marine life before it began the process in August 2005 to expand an oil and gas leasing program in the Beaufort, Bering, and Chukchi seas.
If you were a teabagger, and you had the opportunity to lunch with Ben, what would you discuss?
That's going to send the Palinites into a tizzy. Bombings to come.
Get ready for the gushing headlines trumpeting the XXth consecutive up week for Wall Street in a few hours. ::rolleyes::
The fact that none of these guys see that innovation WAS the problem is why we are doomed.
If you were a teabagger, and you had the opportunity to lunch with Ben, what would you discuss?
Baseball, his childhood, hobbies, kids, kinda like the 60 minutes intvw.
It should be "who woulda thunk?"
You mean innovation like allowing any financial company to sell "insurance" against financial assets without having to hold statutory reserves against potential losses like a real insurance company does might lead to problems? Hoocoodanode?
Steve Rattner Nobama's auto czar under investigation. Yay I am feeling confident and good about the future prospects of American Autos
"If you were a teabagger, and you had the opportunity to lunch with Ben, what would you discuss?"
I think most teabaggers wouldn't discuss a thing, just stab him in the throat with a butter knife.
My SPG puts are arguing with my SHLD puts over the title of who has been most wronged. Any advice?
--
The Zombie Apocalypse begins when U3 hits 15%
They're already taking ordres for the 2011 Chyrsliats and Fiatlers.
Consider this:
It is a GLOBAL ship -the various attempts at life boats and raft building? It may be there is no where to land and no one is coming to pick up. So far the efforts to bail water -it may be just be plague carrying rats scurrying. While the shamans are attempting to offer sacrifice to the gods so the peoples will believe.
MOT
Careful NObama's listening...
Just thinking (always dangerous) that the above analogy from Bob Higgs used to remind me of the raving uncles that would show up at holiday dinners. Now they clearly are prescient, and my nephews are looking at me weirdly....
Will we be seeing the afternoon rocket again today?
I do too say whatever my employer and master tells me to say
This is what i don't get about Rattner:
A Treasury Department spokeswoman did not address the allegations, but said in a statement, "During the transition, Mr. Rattner made us aware of the pending investigation."
So the Administration was aware of the pending investigation, and still went with him? It's not like he was even a good PE manager, or even familiar with the industry; most of his media holdings have gone to hell.
Does he have naked pictures of Emmanuel or something?
Yeah, innovation is good. When bank depositors put in their money, they should be promptly informed that their money will be devalued by poor investment by 50%, so that the delay in recognition can be elminated. When a mortgage holder defaults, the day after the judgment, the bulldozers should arrive so that the mortgage holders don't have to let the houses become worthless thru neglect/vandalism over months and years. When a banker makes bad investments, the axman should arrive right after the financial report is public and off his head in the street outside the bank. That's the kind of innovation we need.
"If you were a teabagger, and you had the opportunity to lunch with Ben, what would you discuss?"
When I wasn't busy slipping ecoli into his steak tartar, I would be curious as to how those he has had cocktails with during the previous month have been impacted by the recovery efforts. And I would be interested in how he anticipates the additional $163,000 of national debt imposed on each federal taxpaying family will be paid.
The only thing that went wrong is encouraging/enabling people to gamble with their retirement in the ponzi scheme that you created.
We all learned in the last depression that their needs to be a safe haven for savings....and that banks were supposed to be that safe haven.
You assholes watched, participated in and then celebrated the dismantling of those firewalls.
You stripped the protections in the name of free enterprise and then blamed the following crisis on the regulatory failure without naming yourselves as the conspirators.
Now all you got is Hoocoodanode.
You make me sick and I will come for your balls.
Patiently awaiting the revolution and yours in revenge,
Darth Paulson
teabaggers: swamp puritans looking for a witch
"Financial innovation is about hiding risk. "
Yup. And economists like Bernanke celebrate innovation in making better widgets, which have no use.
Proxy advisers recommend voting "no" on BofA's Lewis
http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSTRE53G4F020090417
wo influential investor advisory groups recommended on Friday that Bank of America Corp shareholders vote to strip CEO Kenneth Lewis of his chairman role, adding to pressure on the bank's leader following the controversial buyout of Merrill Lynch & Co.
Treasuries getting slapped again this afternoon. Jas must have pulled his bid.
Teabagger: Ben, we've had enough taxes. No more taxes. Taxes, taxes, taxes, taxes......have I made myself clear.
Ben: Quite clear, but I'm not responsible for fomenting tax policy. However, I agree with your assessment and sentiment. Taxes are too high.
Teabagger: Thank you for allowing me to put your scrotum in my mouth.
Ben: You're quite welcome. I'm a man of the people.
My god this rally in financials and REITs is evil!
commentariat signal to noise ratio is very low today...
on the morrow then
Good news guys
Borders is having a 50% off sale on CDs and DVDs!
Ben Bernanke has accomplished a feat I would have thought impossible. He's managed to lower my opinion of the economist profession.
"teabaggers: swamp puritans looking for a witch "
just out of morbid curiousity debtinator, i would like to know where you (and the rest of the teabag haters) and i differ. we have some general rules, always subject to exception of course, but by and large believed to be applicable in most cases. it would be helpful to know exactly which of the following teabagger principles you disagree with:
1. You will get less of any activity the government taxes.
2. You will get more of any activity the government subsidizes.
3. If the government helps you buy a product or a service, the price of that product or service will increase.
4. Once created, a government agency will never go away and in the vast majority of cases, the budget of that agency will increase year after year.
5. Like the asylum in One Flew Over the Cookoo's Nest, the primary goal of a government agency is not the welfare of its clientele, but instead the welfare of the agency and its members.
6. The cost to a business of compliance with government regulations is most often passed on to the consumer of that business's products or services.
7. Corporate taxes are paid by the consumer because they are passed into the price of the product.
8. In the long run, the value of the goods and services available to be distributed to the citizens of a nation are roughly equal to the value of the goods and services produced by the citizens of that nation.
9. An ordinary citizen has, for all practical purposes, no power to effect legislation on a national level but has substantial power to effect legislation at a local level.
10. The long term trend has been for Federal power to usurp local power.
11. Politicians do not get elected because they are good stewards of the public trust or because they are good leaders or good administrators. They get elected because they are better than the opposition at getting votes. That is their skill set.
12. Freedom implies that a person is free to take risks and to fail. In other words, more freedom equals greater risk. Less risk equals less freedom. The only way the government can reduce the risk of a "bad" event occurring in your life is to remove freedom somewhere in the system (either your freedom or the freedom of someone else).
The banks own the Federal Reserve banks. Literally. I'm not sure people understand that when they read what BB says.
Yeah the SPG and VNO spike today I just don't get, other than opex.
Tim waiting for 2012 wrote on Fri, 04/17/2009 - 10:28am.
Good news guys
Borders is having a 50% off sale on CDs and DVDs!
Was 40% last week. At 50% "off" their prices are only 20% higher than Fry's stores or Deepdiscount's website. There's a business plan. Limited selection at high prices in a strip mall location with brick and mortar overhead.
Rattner probably paid the Obama administration a fee to get the auto czar job.
"Where does all this leave us? It seems clear that the difficulty of managing financial innovation in the period leading up to the crisis was underestimated ..."
The human race needs an escutcheon with the motto: How was I supposed to know that?
Shoulder patches for jackets. Bumper stickers. Epitaphs on tombstones.
Pavel Chichikov
plebe wrote on Fri, 04/17/2009 - 10:34am.
Rattner probably paid the Obama administration a fee to get the auto czar job.
Blaggobama!
OT:
Can somebody tell me what "NCL Ratio" is? (From Citibank chart, several CR posts previous)
thanks
My god this rally in financials and REITs is evil!
Regions Financial caught a lot of shorts off-guard; the rally/covering in the regionals is actually stronger than the moneycenters.
"Freedom implies that a person is free to take risks and to fail. In other words, more freedom equals greater risk. Less risk equals less freedom. The only way the government can reduce the risk of a "bad" event occurring in your life is to remove freedom somewhere in the system (either your freedom or the freedom of someone else)."
Enjoy your peanut butter sandwich, while your house burns down because the fire department closed for lack of funding.
Pavel Chichikov
You know what would be really, awesomely innovative?
If we stopped using the word "innovative" to describe destructive acts of fraud.
To start with:
"4. Once created, a government agency will never go away and in the vast majority of cases, the budget of that agency will increase year after year."
The WPA is no more. Many important agencies have not seen their budgets expand proportionately with the size of the industry they regulate.
W. Black:
"After 9/11, the attacks, the Justice Department transfers 500 white-collar specialists in the FBI to national terrorism. Well, we can all understand that. But then, the Bush administration refused to replace the missing 500 agents. So even today, again, as you say, this crisis is 1000 times worse, perhaps, certainly 100 times worse, than the Savings and Loan crisis. There are one-fifth as many FBI agents as worked the Savings and Loan crisis."
Also refers to the tiny number of stress testers compared to the S&L wind down.
So, you need hindsight to realize that making $500,000 loans to employed people, putting them packages then selling or buying them is a bad idea?
I went to a state school, so what do I know?
Financial innovation = new carnival midway games, new worthless prizes.
'There are one-fifth as many FBI agents as worked the Savings and Loan crisis."'
So do you want fewer agents because they represent big government, or more agents so they can investigate financial fraud?
Pavel Chichikov
"Rattner, an actual investment banker and the govt. rep in carmaker proceedings, must be doing too good a job."
Not if you consider about a month ago he took any bargaining power away from GM when he told the UAW and bond owners they where not working on a BK!
What is NCL? Google doesn't help. Thanks.
To Darth Paulson,
Darth you got it right.
First the media said the average American was afraid and fearful of what was going to happen.
As the citizen becomes more educated as to what really happened and the facts keep coming out, that fear is now turning to
anger.
My concern is what happens when the anger turns to action.
If there is no accountability, there will be no change.You can use all the clever sound bites,but the end result
for decades is going to be financially nasty,except of course for the wealthy and the powerful who profited from this scam.
At my age I cannot believe that I am living the 1930's all over again.
6. The cost to a business of compliance with government regulations is most often passed on to the consumer of that business's products or services.
The costs of lack of regulation, or compliance, are often hidden until disaster.
And costs are not passed to consumers in a competitive free market to the extent that one "innovator" is more efficient in complying with regulation.
Temper tantrums relieve tension but they are not constructive.
Pavel Chichikov
It seems clear that the difficulty of managing financial innovation in the period leading up to the crisis was underestimated - Ben Bernanke
Bernanke is such the useful idiot. Financial innovation is code for financial fraud. Wall street doesn't want transparency or efficient markets. Wall streetonly wants the illusion of transparency and efficiency.
Any financial "innovation" that allows the creation of money without a corresponding increase of actual productive output is a sham. More money chasing the same amount of goods dilutes wealth, it does not create wealth.
Bernanke should be fired immmediately. He couldn't even recognize the biggest housing and credit bubbles in history. Case closed.
What is NCL? Google doesn't help. Thanks.
Net Credit Loss
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_net_credit_loss
NCL = Non Current Loans... i think
oops
"Freedom implies that a person is free to take risks and to fail. In other words, more freedom equals greater risk. Less risk equals less freedom. The only way the government can reduce the risk of a "bad" event occurring in your life is to remove freedom somewhere in the system (either your freedom or the freedom of someone else)."
Enjoy your peanut butter sandwich, while your house burns down because the fire department closed for lack of funding.
Pavel Chichikov "
Pavel, do you honestly believe that i oppose government funding for police and fire protection. or that i don't believe that some minimal level of governmental funding for essential services and for the welfare of the the disadvantaged is necessary? i don't think that you do. given that, what is the point of your post? (or am i wrong and you do believe that?)
also, i'm not certain from your reply whether or not you agree or disagree with the assertion.
3. If the government helps you buy a product or a service, the price of that product or service will increase.
If the government subsidizes production of a product or service, even by direct subsidy to the end-user (senior citizen, student discounts) the long-term price decreases to the extent that the subsidy leads to innovation.
I am surprised Ben Bernanke to give so many speeches!
Do you really believe our erudite professor really deserves such attention given that he did not recognise the risks while the risks were being built up, underestimated the credit losses, poorly estimated the fallout of the housing crisis, wrong prognostication of the end of the crisis etc..
The only credit he can rightfully claim is for having rained money on the bailout bandits so that they could rain bonus on themselves, backstop credit losses, which should have been taken by the banks, rack up toxic assets into Fed's Balance Sheet, open the money spigot, prop up asset prices, screw the tax payer, prudent home buyers and savers.
Do you other than the fact he is a determined experimenter, with the dumb suckers (tax payers) as the guinea pigs, does he have any other qualifications to make a speech.
In fact he should not be holding the job!!
If the government subsidizes production of a product or service, even by direct subsidy to the end-user (senior citizen, student discounts) the long-term price decreases to the extent that the subsidy leads to innovation.
College or health care costs?
When innovation includes selective and surreptitious default.
When innovation includes backdoor appropriation of politically disenfranchised's hidden wealth
When innovation includes legal workarounds to suspend regulation and prosecution of fraud
When innovation includes monetary, fiscal, and tax policy arrogated by unelected, zero-check-n-balance money cabal
When innovation captures government and makes national business model uber-speculation on land and structures
Then innovation is bad. It is better termed venal corruption OR high crimes and misdemeanors
BONDS!
"Financial innovation is code for financial fraud"
------------
Yes. But my opinion of Bernanke has changed. I previously assume he was lying but allowed that he might just be naive. Now I assume that he's just plain crazy.
Imo, "innovation" is not the real problem, but that of accurately measuring risk of such products.
If such innovation wasn't overrated in the first place, money would of gone to better ventures.
In reply to yupside_downslide, I would like to point out - like the broken record that I am - that the Basel capital accords introduced some horrible mis-rankings of risk that disproportionately favor securitized trash over old-fashioned hold-to-maturity practices.
"3. If the government helps you buy a product or a service, the price of that product or service will increase.
If the government subsidizes production of a product or service, even by direct subsidy to the end-user (senior citizen, student discounts) the long-term price decreases to the extent that the subsidy leads to innovation. "
in 1969 thru 1973 i put myself through college, working for minimum and close to minimum wage. no scholarships, grants, or assistance of any sort. my 17 year old goes next year so i know what it costs now. no way could a student do that now. also, remember i stated these were general rules subject to exceptions so i will grant that you could be right in rare circumstances.
1. You will get less of any activity the government taxes.
If enormous capital gains are the product of "financial innovation" and looting of the wealth of producers of real value, then by all means hike those taxes.
Personally, I'll take scientific innovation any day over financial innovation.
"1. You will get less of any activity the government taxes.
If enormous capital gains are the product of "financial innovation" and looting of the wealth of producers of real value, then by all means hike those taxes."
i'm with you there.
875 has got to be hit...
_______________________________________________________________________________________
I emptied my bank account so the bastards can't use it. Being in debt is like diving with great white sharks.
teabagger wrote on Fri, 04/17/2009 - 10:57am.
in 1969 thru 1973 i put myself through college, working for minimum and close to minimum wage. no scholarships, grants, or assistance of any sort. my 17 year old goes next year so i know what it costs now. no way could a student do that now.
But is the problem really the government creating artificial demand, or shrinking real wages and rising credentialism creating artificial demand?
Forgive me for the political snark but I would definitely take a look at the election of George Bush and its dramatic change for the worse in bank regulatory attitudes especially at the FDIC.
"Pavel, do you honestly believe that i oppose government funding for police and fire protection. or that i don't believe that some minimal level of governmental funding for essential services and for the welfare of the the disadvantaged is necessary?"
I just didn't know, and I'm glad to hear that you are not some ultra. I'm also not in favor of intrusive and/or wasteful government. I'm not sure though that we can carefully and frugally measure out just what government can do or may not do. Society is not only unprecedentedly complex and specialized, but it seems actively to discourage social participation, or it provides diversions that draw people away from the process. We need much better public education than we have, or the citizenry will be too ignorant for any kind of effective self-government. And public education is expensive. The public must pay for it.
I like the Internet. It's participatory. I mistrust television - it's isolating, and a powerful indoctrinator.
Pavel Chichikov
Here is my response to Bernanke's efforts, courtesy of a very smart blog comment:
For those that don't like reading through all the comments on blogs....
Here is my first nominee for Blogger Comment of the Year....
Few Words.... Powerful message....
http://4best4worst.wordpress.com/
If you have a better nominee please email....
Best to all
Maximus
tb: I appreciate your open-minded approach to the debate.
From 1969-1973 I would guess the minimum wage had much greater purchasing power for many things than it does now. Did you attend a public or private college?
What the hell is the use of a 1590 SAT if you don't read history in an attempt to truly understand the lay of the land?
Smart is nice, but the world is complex, Bennie Boy. You've got to look for root causes that overwhelm all other factors.
Hint: household debt to GDP.
bernanke said near the bottom,
"I don't think anyone wants to go back to the 1970s. Financial innovation has improved access to credit, reduced costs, and increased choice. We should not attempt to impose restrictions on credit providers so onerous that they prevent the development of new products and services in the future."
hmmm.... lets see where we are today on one hand...or back to the 70s on the other
(if we could keep the knowledge and grow (go) a different way)
id climb aboard the way-back machine
mt
Elmo may show soon, this opex freak show of a day and the week long tape painting may end today, Monday at latest
When the political will depositors are bypassed and the rulers conjure up their own legitimacy,
When the banking depositors are bypassed and money masters print independently money and mint debt,
Democracy and the free market are DEAD! Bloody revolution is nigh OR a police state that strips all liberty.
Look for the YOU ARE HERE arrow on the map of your life.
"From 1969-1973 I would guess the minimum wage had much greater purchasing power for many things than it does now. Did you attend a public or private college?"
public. my son will also be attending public. post graduate, i attended private school. i paid for the first year and then received a full scholarship for the remaining years. nevertheless, i'm certain you would agree that in the last couple of decades tuition increases have far, far outpaced inflation.
sam.2,
God I hope you're right -- This reminds me of the Volkswagon action. Those that are following the S&P action are missing the story. The rise in XLF and IYR are freakish, and must be blowing up a bunch of overleveraged shorts/hedge funds. At least I'm not leveraged, but my puts are taking it in the shorts.
bernanke said near the bottom,
"I don't think anyone wants to go back to the 1970s"
----------
If he doesn't , then why in the h*ll is he trying to bring back inflation so badly?
As Pavel says, public education is expensive. The costs are relatively easy to add up. The costs of not investing enough in public education are almost impossible to measure, but they are very real.
"teabagger wrote on Fri, 04/17/2009 - 10:57am.
in 1969 thru 1973 i put myself through college, working for minimum and close to minimum wage. no scholarships, grants, or assistance of any sort. my 17 year old goes next year so i know what it costs now. no way could a student do that now.
But is the problem really the government creating artificial demand, or shrinking real wages and rising credentialism creating artificial demand?"
you have a good point and i'm not certain, but i know that if the government subsidized the purchase of the products that my company produces, we would raise prices.
"tuition increases have far, far outpaced inflation." in wages, yes.
Which is why the government must increase its subsidy of the service or of wages, because the market ain't gonna do it.
"Bernanke should be fired immmediately. He couldn't even recognize the biggest housing and credit bubbles in history. Case closed."
Actually, it was Greenspan who was in charge while all of this developed.
Bernanke cranked the rates up but it was already too late.
And like always, the Fed went to far in their reaction to the bubble, exacerbating the inevitable crash.
Had Greenspan never lowered to 1%, and if Bernanke never raised to 5.25% the bubble and crash would have been fairly average in severity.
Locally or nationally is a vital debate, I agree.
Yeah, we know. It's all the consumer's fault. Not the greedy, pompous parasitic bankers & their friends in government.
chas
How can you raise prices if your competitor wants market share?
if the government subsidized the purchase of the products that my company produces, we would raise prices.
Anyone seen an off-air HDTV decoder? The thing looks like it should cost less than $20 bucks...
From Interactive Brokers, just what you want to see on OpEx:
To AMEX traders:
Fri Apr 17 13:02:23 2009 EST
AMEX Options are currently unavailable for trading due to technical problems at the exchange.
The government raises funding for education, the teachers vote themselves a raise and raise tuition. It's a little game all subsidized businesses play.
How can you raise prices if your competitor wants market share?
yogi, you're sounding like you went to the U of Chicago
financial innovation
appears to me to be mostly (not entirely)....money changers at the temple
whats the difference between the protection money the mob collected from store keepers in new york , chicago etc
and TARP, PDCF, TALF, TAF, TSLF, CPFF , AMLF, TOP, and finaly my favorite MMIFF
mt
How can you raise prices if your competitor wants market share?
You purchase that competitor and collude with any remaining to fix prices. That's Gilded Age 101 by Karl Rove. Great course.
History will write that Ben Bernanke was one of the most influential lunatics in human history.
If it were not for his "scholarship" and "leaderships," you would not have the Fed and other governments and central banks all over the world creating trillions of dollars of stimulus out of thin air, virtually overnight, without any game plan or end-game in sight, and with zero public input or oversight. Bernanke has given financial looters all over the world permission.
None of his academic theories have been put to a real-world test, until now. None were designed for an economy this large and complex, or a globe with so many government sheep following one lunatic's lead. In his academic thesis, checks and balances weren't a reality or necessary.
Future generations will despise the name Bernanke. And they'll equate it with generational looting.
"I just didn't know, and I'm glad to hear that you are not some ultra. I'm also not in favor of intrusive and/or wasteful government. I'm not sure though that we can carefully and frugally measure out just what government can do or may not do. Society is not only unprecedentedly complex and specialized, but it seems actively to discourage social participation, or it provides diversions that draw people away from the process. We need much better public education than we have, or the citizenry will be too ignorant for any kind of effective self-government. And public education is expensive. The public must pay for it."
there were very few "ultras" at the sacramento tea party. 98% (IMO) were just about as regular as regular folks can get. however, it was predominantly white (sigh). i wish we could get more people of all persuasions to come around to our way of thinking.
when i was born we had public shools, police and fire protection, doctors who made house calls at a reasonable price and mail delivery twice a day. total (fed, state and local) government spending that year was 19% of GDP.
College tuition is no different then the housing bubble, loans grew unrealistic prices. Student loans are the fuel for high tuition. Less loans would pace the attendance and they would lower cost. Colleges sell student loans and credit cards like a used car salesman.
I coach at a famous private University. Because of endowment losses from risky investments, they are moving away from need-blind admissions. The long-term quality of their students will suffer, and the current students know it. I'm not suggesting public subsidy of private education, and Obama was right in opposing vouchers. But full scholarships to smart people like you will be cut.
Glod continues to sink....hoocoodanode?
Is being black and/or latino a persuasion?
.....well, if they're less smart BUT a leftie with a mean curveball, they're in.....
- - - - -
Black 
Ranch
Yes, college has become a scam to sell loans, books, housing and offer big salaries to overeducated dopes...having attended a UC years ago when it was more reasonable, I would bet the $25k per year is not worth it...
Bernanke on Financial Innovation
Anyone still listenig to that crap ?
I thought it's all contained ?
(I have to commend the drug lords : if they encounter such incompetent/dangerous ones , they simply shoot them ! )
It is better to fall among crows than bankers; for those devour only the dead--these the living
As to our republic's representatives, media darlings, federal reservists...there is no faithfulness in their mouth; their inward part is very wickedness; their throat is an open sepulchre; they flatter with their tongue, and make secret thievery of your most prized possessions their art!
Zephyr,
Greenspan does indeed bear much of the blame. But re-check the record on Bernanke. He repeatedly stated that there was NOT a housing bubble and claimed that house prices were rising due to rising income gains.
Moreover, once the subprime debacle hit him in the face, Bernanke claimed the risk was limited to subprime and quantified the risk (under congressional oath) at $50 to $100 billion max!
Bernanke also repeatedly stated that the banking system was NOT at risk.
And Bernanke's performance only gets worse. His primary response to the crisis has been to shower money on the incompetent banking industry and throw the productive economy under the bus. Rather than routing out the fraud (think AIG, CDS, etc.) he has decided to send the bill to the tax payers.
I am not joking when I say Bernanke is a useful idiot and should be fired. Tens or even hundreds of millions of lives have and will be ruined in our country as a result of the biggest finacial fraud in history.
I have an Economics degree. My advisor was the brilliant Robert H. Frank, much smarter than the Chicago dopes. But anything "free" is a great ideal, a market, a college education (free to students at City College of New York since the 1800's). Always be suspect of an argument that taxes will automatically be passed on to consumers...
there were very few "ultras" at the sacramento tea party. 98% (IMO) were just about as regular as regular folks can get. however, it was predominantly white (sigh). i wish we could get more people of all persuasions to come around to our way of thinking.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And 100% were viewers of fox news. Just Sayin'.
1 currency now -yogi (member) wrote on Fri, 04/17/2009 - 11:24am.
...But full scholarships to smart people like you will be cut....
Sure you are on the right blog ?
Innovation good, accountability not so much
I think this is one of those threads that I don't even bother to discuss because it's so completely inane and out of touch, other than a self indictment.
Be that as it may, deleveraging and it's effect on housing, spending and employment are the issues that must be addressed if we are to pull out of this tailspin anytime soon
Financial innovation is good so long as regulators do their freaking jobs and Fed chairs stop spiking the punch bowl with everclear.
Borders' 40-50% off sale is a liquidation in disguise; I noticed inventory sheets all over my local a few weeks back in all sections, not just CD(which they announced they were leaving the market months ago) and DVD's(I don't think I can pick up Godfather II at Fry's for $8.) They had done the same thing at my old local before they shuttered that as well.
It seems clear that the difficulty of managing financial innovation in the period leading up to the crisis was underestimated
I love the use of passive voice in this sentence. It obfuscates the meaning and the culprits. Much like "mistakes were made". They just happened, nobody actually made mistakes, though.
'Financial innovation is about hiding risk.'
Or, in fairness, by spreading it. Look at the financial innovation that Lloyd's brought about in world trade by creating the insurance syndicate concept.
A rare case, but other examples can also be found - the mini-credit banks in 3rd World countries also be an interesting example of spreading risk, in this case, from those where a thousand dollars is chump change to those where it represents a family's budget for a year. Though in fairness, till now, the best run microloan banks are quite profitable.
j you're challenging Pavel-in-residence with that stuff.
S&P hits 875!
http://www.rallymonkey.com/oldvideo.php
--
The Zombie Apocalypse begins when U3 hits 15%
Greenspan does indeed bear much of the blame. But re-check the record on Bernanke. He repeatedly stated that there was NOT a housing bubble and claimed that house prices were rising due to rising income gains.
The Fed Chairman works for the financial oligarchy, kleptocracy…whatever you want to call it. To attempt to blame any one person is to say that person had choices and made the wrong decisions. And that's incorrect
jorod
fyi for discussion purposes and are teachers over or under paid
here in the state of washington
the average teacher salary is 45k with starters at 34k and topping out with a doctorate and 29 yrs exp earning 64k
up until last year 2 out of 5 teachers left teaching for more profitable enterprises in a 5 year follow up study
retirement is based upon the average of the top 5 years and usually works out to 60% of that salary
ie 2% (as a number) times 5 year salary average, times years of service
2 x 30 x 50k = 30k per year
my personal opinion, generally teachers are neither over nor under paid...its about right
mt
Bernanke acts as if "financial innovation" happened in a vacuum.
It happened in an environment of deterioration in many facets of the U.S. real economy.
If the U.S. real economy were fundamentally strong, the costs of ignoring financial innovation's perils wouldn't be so great.
Here is a professional economist with access to more information about the real economy than anyone else in the world.
And he ignored every sign of weakness, any one of which should have prompted him to pay more attention to financial risks and stronger regulation. This went on for years before it all fell apart. Given his track record of regulatory negligence, Bernanke has no business continuing to hold his job.
you're right of course, but in my defense i don't think they stayed away due to the amount of melanin in their epidermis...
Sort of like people who do not understand the laws of gravity innovating with airplanes. Since we now see it proven (once again) that economists do not understand the fundamental laws of human financial interaction, I'd suggest maybe they should not be innovating anything, anyplace, anytime.
Uncle Ar wrote on Fri, 04/17/2009 - 11:34am.
there were very few "ultras" at the sacramento tea party. 98% (IMO) were just about as regular as regular folks can get. however, it was predominantly white (sigh). i wish we could get more people of all persuasions to come around to our way of thinking.
Surprising to me was we had a good turn out of Hispanic and black folks. Our town has very few black and a fair amount of Hispanics. Obama Bush and Clintons names where raised as problem leaders. So both parties caught heck from the folks. I didn't see any local Rich people there either.
yogi: that wasn't a criticism; i was just reacting to your comment about competitors keeping prices in check.
today is antitrust outlining day for me, so i'm up to my eyeballs in the economic naivete of certain Justices when it comes to competition. I don't think that they're corrupt, i just think that they believe in a world where the honorable thing is to call your own fouls.
'i wish we could get more people of all persuasions to come around to our way of thinking.'
Well, tell me when that happens - until then, get used to the idea of being in the minority, the minority that lost the 2008 election cycle.
In part, because a majority of the people that voted simply rejected the idea that tax cuts work. And considering the contrast between the memories of the Clinton high tax (can anyone actually say that with a straight face?) era and its federal surpluses with the last 8 years of fiscal policy summed up as 'deficits don't matter,' can you blame them?
However, any protesters that were protesting in the streets in 2006 against federal deficits would certainly have my respect for being honest - did you meet anyone like that, you know, a normal person that was deeply disturbed at federal spending during that time?
No matter what you do, say, or how many papers you write or read....you can't change the fact that fiat is fiat. At the end of the day it really IS all about psychology. People understand that the concrete connection between money and the underlying wealth is simply not there. Money in general has serious PR problem. Before we can move on, its credibility must be restored. Until that happens, we all languish. Step one of restoring value to something is to reduce the availability of it. Let the banks fail. Let the bad debts fail. Let the poorly run, cashless businesses fail, let the remaining capital be reallocated to the necessities for a while. Give people a chance to take up new PRODUCTIVE works; an honest day's work for an honest day's pay and all that. We will all be leaner, smarter, more competitive, and more satisfied for it.
fyi for discussion purposes and are teachers over or under paid
it's not the teachers that are overpaid, but the 18 levels of administrators on top of them.
The entire economy is Ben's petrie dish. Mad science.
When does ultra-elation turn to despair ?
Ya vote for Ronnie and Georgie then complain about the guvmint stealing.
Uncle Ar wrote on Fri, 04/17/2009 - 11:34am.
there were very few "ultras" at the sacramento tea party. 98% (IMO) were just about as regular as regular folks can get. however, it was predominantly white (sigh). i wish we could get more people of all persuasions to come around to our way of thinking.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And 100% were viewers of fox news. Just Sayin'.
well 100% might be pushing it a bit but there's no doubt that the majority were probably fox news viewers. i'll do a rough survey at the next party and let you know. but keep in mind that fox news jumped on this after it became a movement. correlation is not causation. i'm an outlier in that regard in that i don't particularly care for fox news; too much sensationalism. on the other hand i do despise pretty much all mainstream media. they cherry pick the news that suits them.
once again, "Everything in the newspapers is 100% accurate…unless it happens to be about something, of which you have actual knowledge." Mark Twain
Mr. Elmo, COME ON DOWN..... you're the next contestant on THE PRICE IS FIXED!
Basel Too (member) wrote on Fri, 04/17/2009 - 11:44am
"it's not the teachers that are overpaid, but the 18 levels of administrators on top of them."
-------------------------------
Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner.
1 currency now -yogi (member) wrote on Fri, 04/17/2009 - 11:24am.
I coach at a famous private University. Because of endowment losses from risky investments, they are moving away from need-blind admissions. The long-term quality of their students will suffer, and the current students know it. I'm not suggesting public subsidy of private education, and Obama was right in opposing vouchers.
As someone on the far right (what am I, probably Kemalist?) who who would teach his kids at home regardless of cost, who has another friend more liberal than you even, yogi, who has similar feelings -- both due to going through the same failed school system -- I honestly think you have idea how bad it is, or how much forward pointing damage the ruinous dysfunction of the vested interests that make up the education industry have caused.
They are a bare hair behind the prison industry for the amount of pain and sufrfering they have inflicted on this Republic. Public education may be a public good, but it has been AWFUL for the victims. I am down for vouchers, charter schools, Cambodian work-education programs for public teachers who don't perform, whatever it takes. An entire generation of Americans has been left ruined and ignorant in a police barracks, under constant surveillance and given only the most perfunctory care by an administration far more interested in promotion and maintenace of station than performance. That generation is being maimed and confused *right now* in a school near you.
Byz, hedgehopping
Basel Too (member) wrote on Fri, 04/17/2009 - 11:44am.
fyi for discussion purposes and are teachers over or under paid
it's not the teachers that are overpaid, but the 18 levels of administrators on top of them.
Depends if you compare teachers as part time to full time then no they are not under paid.
Yes, Werner, teabagger has shown that (s)he is open to persuasion, if a tad careless with terms.
BSR, although my school doesn't award athletic scholarships, I am prepared to argue for diversity in admissions (curveballs, backhands) so as to avoid over reliance on test scores (mine were quite high). When the banker class is underrepresented, I will stand up for their privileges.
Need-blind is hard to argue against, even if you knew that a higher number would drop out for lack of finances. 4 years is overrated.
In the day of prosperity be joyful, but in the day of adversity consider.
What is affluence acquired in the last 20 years? Was it obtained through merit, true hard labour, free and open exchange with one's fellow man giving him some measure of joy in furnishing his life with comfort? or otherwise?
Has it been bought, in large measure, with ploys--slavery out of sight--subtle fraud--entrapment and snares of one's neighbors? Who eats their bread in peace in a home when both meat and shelter are extracted through the devaluation of one's soul?
When the fabric of our financial system is built upon lies, half-truths, purposeful complexity is not everyman corrupted who participates? Hasn't the entire well been poisoned? Can any man partake and not be infected?
Can a gang of pickpockets really grow wealth, or do all but the most slippery of elite criminals become ultimately impoverished?
What is this system we have built our lives and the lives of our loved ones upon?
"Will all great Neptune's ocean wash this blood clean from my hand? No. This my hand will rather the multitudinous seas incarnating making the green one red." How to get out of the pit I've fallen in?
"I didn't see any local Rich people there either."
.......do they "walk a certain way?", wear certain colors (designer rainbows maybe)?, wear imported shoes and sweats? Thanx. I'll have to check out if we have any local rich here.........
- - - - -
Black Ranch
I apologise if it's been posted before :
Stiglitz Says Ties to Wall Street Doom Bank Rescue
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=ahnPchOxZMh8&refer=home
April 17 (Bloomberg) -- The Obama administration's bank- rescue efforts will probably fail because the programs have been designed to help Wall Street rather than create a viable financial system, Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz said.
"All the ingredients they have so far are weak, and there are several missing ingredients," Stiglitz said in an interview yesterday. The people who designed the plans are "either in the pocket of the banks or they're incompetent."
teabagger, my 100% comment was an exaggeration for effect. What I was trying to imply was look at the demographics of fox news viewers and my guess is you will see a very strong correlation with the tea party attendees.
there seems to be a war between old school bankers vs newer hedge fund wizards.... my take is obama is fighting on the side of the old school bankers, trying to eliminate the new money that was created from the financial meltdown. the last month seems to basically be a squeeze on these big hedge funds. the hedge funds probably bet big on CITI GM etc going bankrupt ... but Obama is not gonna let it happen like lehman and bear stearns.
were basically in the middle of a financial mob war it seems...
Anonymous wrote on Fri, 04/17/2009 - 11:42am.
'i wish we could get more people of all persuasions to come around to our way of thinking.'
Well, tell me when that happens - until then, get used to the idea of being in the minority, the minority that lost the 2008 election cycle.
In part, because a majority of the people that voted simply rejected the idea that tax cuts work. And considering the contrast between the memories of the Clinton high tax (can anyone actually say that with a straight face?) era and its federal surpluses with the last 8 years of fiscal policy summed up as 'deficits don't matter,' can you blame them?
However, any protesters that were protesting in the streets in 2006 against federal deficits would certainly have my respect for being honest - did you meet anyone like that, you know, a normal person that was deeply disturbed at federal spending during that time?"
well, i was deeply disturbed. and i know others who were as well. keep in mind that a large subset of people on the right regard bush as a democrat with socially conservative values. but your point is well taken. much to our disgrace. no doubt that some in the current movement are rank hypocrites.
I graduated from college 6 years ago. I ALMOST double majored in econ. Took something like 10 classes in it and thought it was pretty easy, but decided to stick with engineering. That said some of my books were written by ben bernanke. Is my econ minor worth anything ?!?!?!
I think in the end it came down to , econ wouldnt be very challenging. I was led to believe that banking had to do with making loans to do productive things. And that people paid back those loans with the gains they made from said productive activities. Having learned that, I was thinking well that doesnt seem as interesting as writing code. Apparently financial innovation is what makes it interesting!
Here's a litmus test for Bernanke and his financial innovation theory. Are most people financially better off today than they were 10 or 20 years ago? Did real incomes for the majority rise more under a gold standard or a fiat standard?
Exactly what good are average income gains when the majority of the gains accrue to the top 1/10th of 1%?
Most of the wealth garnered by the top 1/10th of 1% over the past 10 years is the result of inflation. Since 1995, MZM increased 60% faster than nominal GDP.
Our fiat financial sysmtem is a sham. If you want to make money today, you need to get in on the senseless credit creation sham.
BSR,
Not hard to figure out who the rich are in small town America. I know some of the old boys in coveralls are very well off. The wannabees are not hard to figure out either. Spent most of working life with the public to make a fair snap opinion. Kind of like the guy who guesses you weight at the fair!
hans (member) wrote on Fri, 04/17/2009 - 11:57am.
Apparently financial innovation is what makes it interesting!
In the sense that a quick game of Russian roulette livens up a regular Saturday trip to the target range, yes.
Stiglitz said in an interview yesterday. The people who designed the plans are "either in the pocket of the banks or they're incompetent."
It's not an either/or situation. The people who designed the plans ARE in the pockets of the banks AND they're incompetent.
Biggest financial fraud in history which has Criminal Behavior wrote all over it. A young logger in our county killed himself over the weekend because of debt, mostly to the IRS. Wonder if NY Times or Fox News will report on that, nope because he didn't jump out of a high rise in New York.
It's not an either/or situation. The people who designed the plans ARE in the pockets of the banks AND they're incompetent.
----------------------
At this rate, it's becoming increasingly hard to argue with your statement.
Basel:
Good luck with antitrust, it will make a "comeback" soon.
It's a war of semantics like so many areas of law. "Pure" economic reasoning becomes circular so fast your head will spin.
Oh, yes - completely unaffordable housing was essential to our prosperity. Jerks.
BC-IPOs Planned,0171
Initial public offerings scheduled to debut next week
NEW YORK (AP) - The following is a list of initial public offerings planned for the coming week. Sources include Renaissance Capital, Greenwich, CT (www.ipohome.com) and SEC filings.
Week of Apr. 20-24
No IPOs scheduled this week.
A great spinner......best of the best
India and China implore IMF to sell all 3200 tonnes of gold.
http://www.kitco.com/ind/nadler/apr172009A.html
If their accountants are the same as those of TBTF banks, I suggest there is substantially less.
I was led to believe that banking had to do with making loans to do productive things. And that people paid back those loans with the gains they made from said productive activities
That's what they teach in college believe it or not. The reality is just the opposite. Per Adam Smith, no country has ever repaid its debts. Today the same can be said for almost all corporations. And thanks to Bernanke and Greenspan, we have decided to tranform mortgages into non-liquidating debt.
Bernanke should be more honest and state the following: either we get busy creating more debt to pay the interest on the existing debt, or this sucker is going down.
You can't pay an inspired teacher too much. We don't pay them, so many go elsewhere. If you reward fraud you get fraud. If you reward self-giving inspiration you get at least some of that.
Pavel Chichikov
April 17 (Bloomberg) -- Credit-default swaps traders set a value of 3.25 cents on the dollar for bonds of an AbitibiBowater Inc. unit to settle derivatives linked to the newsprint maker that's now in bankruptcy protection.
The price means sellers of credit swaps guaranteeing as much as $1.1 billion against a default by the Abitibi- Consolidated unit would pay 96.75 cents on the dollar to settle the contracts.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aOO5mCwHvU.A&refer=home
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/recession/5166956/IMF-w...
Telegraph UK
IMF warns over parallels to Great Depression
The International Monetary Fund has warned of "worrisome parallels" between the current global crisis and the Great Depression, despite the unprecedented steps already taken by central banks and governments worldwide.
'keep in mind that a large subset of people on the right regard bush as a democrat with socially conservative values.'
In all honesty, they do not - no one on the right has ever accused Bush of being an America hating, soft on terrorism, leftist wimp who cared more about world opinion than keeping America safe against the evildoers. Though a few, a vanishingly small but still honorable few, were disturbed about his casual use of executive power to wiretap, imprison without charge, and torture - a few that were quickly marginalized. Remember 'Bush Derangement Syndome?' - it was supposed to only afflict Democrats and other crazed people, Bush of course not being a Democrat, but the very antithesis of such people as Pelosi.
This desire to call Bush a Democrat is fascinating, much like the attempt to call Mussolini a 'socialist,' even while ignoring what the founder of fascism himself said and wrote. Bush was not a Democrat, he was not elected by Democrats, and he will never be a Democrat - he was and is a Republican, which is a regrettable truth for Republicans to bear. Admittedly, a Republican whose feckless incompetence certainly places him in the front running for worst president ever - but he will have earned this dishonor as a Republican, not as a Democrat masquerading as a Republican. This is a neat trick, in its way - no one ever accused Nixon of being a Democrat, even though he created the EPA, as a way to deflect responsibility for Watergate.
But it is true that it is possible to find conservatives (Andrew Sullivan comes to mind) that have considered Bush's fiscal policies to be worse than those advanced by Democratic figures. But Sullivan has never claimed, to my knowledge, that Bush was a Democrat in sheep (or is that wolve's?) clothing.
Bush belongs to the Republicans, regardless of how much current Republicans, a now truly minority party, may not want him, as they were the ones that elected him to at least one term (or both, depending on the technicalities).
Equally, regardless of what Obama does, including continuing numerous Bush fiscal policies, he will remain a Democrat.
However, I have called Clinton a weak moderate Republican president for more than a decade, so I do understand the point, if not perhaps the phrasing as a way to further blame the Democrats for what the Republicans, and those voting for them, wrought in the U.S. since the 2000 elections.
"teachers are neither over nor under paid...its about right"
Don't know what the cost of living is in Washington, or the level of teachers' health or other perks-- ability for the talented to supplement with lectures, tips from parents (blind pool, of course), real vacation and holiday time, etc. But 64k after 29 years sounds small.
From earlier post, articles worth reading :
http://www.scribd.com/doc/14268132/Financial-Panics-Political-Change
http://www.scribd.com/doc/14227076/Behind-the-Curtain4909
Anyone has any comments or thoughts on these and Armstrong, do post them.
Anonymous wrote on Fri, 04/17/2009 - 12:23pm.
'keep in mind that a large subset of people on the right regard bush as a democrat with socially conservative values.'
In all honesty, they do not..."
ok. i'll rephrase. rightly or wrongly, a large subset of people on the right thought that bush's fiscal policies were more akin to the fiscal policies of the democrats. and yes, you are right, bush belongs to the republicans and has, thereby, in my opinion, effectively destroyed the republican party.
As a US citizen I was surprised at how easy it was to open a Checking and saving account with the Royal Bank of Canada.
This bank really is refreshing.
Can you please elaborate on how to do so? What docs are needed? thx
As a US citizen I was surprised at how easy it was to open a Checking and saving account with the Royal Bank of Canada.
This bank really is refreshing.
"Don't know what the cost of living is in Washington, or the level of teachers' health or other perks-- ability for the talented to supplement with lectures, tips from parents (blind pool, of course), real vacation and holiday time, etc. But 64k after 29 years sounds small."
Again like tuition cost are unreal due to student loans and credit cards, teachers who work for less are only victims of themselves. No one is locked down in America and can move to a town with a realistic economic for their field. The high cost areas will have no choice but to respond with wages appropriate with the living expenses. I hope like hell they don't teach math or economics.
Anon's at 2:42 and 3:23: get a handle on things, please, sir or madam...
Wow, a Kemalist. Shouldn't it be Istanbul Ruins? Sounds like we agree more resources should be dedicated to education in a variety of forms. I don't want much of my taxes to go to certain missionaries or madrassahs. (My Jewish mother still sings the praises of her Quaker high school, like the one Obama's kids' classmates might be forced out of by his actions.) But within Constitutional limits, just about any investment in knowledge is good.
Meanwhile... who's gonna be your BFF??
ok. i'll rephrase. rightly or wrongly, a large subset of people on the right thought that bush's fiscal policies were more akin to the fiscal policies of the democrats.
A large subset of people in this country think that Saddam Hussein had something to do with 9/11. Doesn't make it true. A large subset of people in this country are clueless about a great number of things.
Replace "financial innovation" with "liar loans, off-balance sheet financing and Ponzi schemes" and see if Bernanke's comments make any sense. The only "innovation" I saw during the past decade was a fraudulent, systematic betrayal of investors by Wall Street and our largest national banks. The idea of "managing" fraud is ludicrous, and so is the idea of "managing" innovation that was, at its heart, a total fraud.
novabot
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Lobbyist BO the economic problem is that the value of good teaching at a public school is nearly impossible to measure in current dollars. Even a great math teacher may be terrible at negotiating wages. The transaction costs of such negotiation are also difficult to price (thus often left out of the economist's equation).
I see that Armstrong is in line with Jas argument that no matter how much you try to inflate, it won't be enough, there will be deflation.
GE is way overestimating collateral value on their loans http://www.ge.com/pdf/investors/events/04172009/ge_webcast_presentation_...
(Capital Finance section, page 19)
Non-earning, Commercial:
$4.5bn = $1.4bn 0% loss + $1.0bn 0% loss after workout on terms + $1.2bn collateral value + $0.9bn losses
• .9/(1.2+.9) = 57% LTV average on NPL. Ummm, gonna call BS. Someone at GE thinks Hospitals are still buying MRI machines like candy or there aren't entire fleets of working aircraft grounded. Collateral is overvalued
• How is it even possible to honestly state you expect full recovery under new loan terms? It's just delaying loss recognizance and hoping you win the lottery.
• How is it possible for one third of NPLs to get 100% recovery, with no workout. Did the checks just get lost in the mail for 3 months straight? Must be a common problem
on the residential side
• Let's just look at residential mortgages. $3.9bn non-earning
• $1.3bn / 33% marked under the mysterious label "Cure" (assuming government funded modifications). It's amazing how you can rework loans where neither party loses money, but just an amateur question... why write them any differently in the first place if you can write them magically to be worth the same value and invincible to default
• 2/(2+.3+.3) = 76.9% Collateral value on remainder of non-earning mortgages. Wow, someone did a great job writing mortgages that would have been 50% down. Surprised they didn't get fired writing so many low premium mortgages, and how GE finance managed those lofty profits doing such safe business
• $.3bn of $2.6bn is recovered through mortgage insurance, or 11.5% of the loan ... odd, mortgages with 50% equity shouldn't need mortgage insurance
That's my contribution for the day
Ok, just how many finacial inovations have had any real value over say the last 25 years? The only one I can really think of is ETF's. The rest of them, CDO's, CDS's, Neg amort mortgages etc clearly have had a net negative value for society. Anyone else think of a financial inovation that has been a net positive.
Creativity is good for artists and inventors, not for accountants and bankers!
1 currency now -yogi (member) wrote on Fri, 04/17/2009 - 12:44pm.
Lobbyist BO the economic problem is that the value of good teaching at a public school is nearly impossible to measure in current dollars. Even a great math teacher may be terrible at negotiating wages. The transaction costs of such negotiation are also difficult to price (thus often left out of the economist's equation).
Teachers unions have done the work for these folks. Any American who thinks they are worth more but works for less then they are the problem and no one else. I was mechanic and grew to a small businessman. Today's inflation corrected income would be bumping $250K. High School grad, Am I worth it?
OMG! "The teachers vote themselves a raise." Are you kidding me. Our teaching union negotiators are in many months long negotiations with the administration in what could essentially be called biparty brinkmanship. It is a battle and we teachers lose a little ground each year. I always find it amusing to ask the loudest critics of teachers, "If teaching is such a peach of a job why aren't you a teacher? Why isn't there massive competition for teaching jobs? Why does the teaching field have such a high burnout rate?"
LBO was Cassano worth 300 million to AIG?
If a mechanic fixes an engine for $1000, bucks, it's fairly easy easy to measure the performance of that in engine in $. If a teacher teaches a kid calculus, what's that worth?
I watched a documentary on the great Alexander Graham Bell recently. His telephone was inspired by a device that showed sound visually. The device had "no practical use". What was it worth?
The math teacher pays for the work done by his union, because it isn't free.
1 currency now -yogi,
You miss the point. You are worth what you produce. The mechanics work is test by the customer. It doesn't work a flat rate paid mechanic does it over at no cost to the customer or the employer. Every job the mechanic does he is on trial and could get fired for poor performance. If the teacher teaches 30 kids calculus and five really get it why does almost everyone pass? Low standards to keep up enrollment? The teachers work is not tested in the long run and gets paid regardless of results. What is that worth? Students should be tested in and out to be promoted every grade. This also test the teachers quality that should include the right to fire in a quick fashion. The education system (I call Public programing) relies on merit badges(degrees) as proof of performance. They can be terrible and still have a long career with raises. Group wages and unions does not create a competitive environment but a political one. If one see wages as a problem then they should move on or deal with less. Education and making money should not be a sure thing. Just like the college pitch of take this loan and make the big bucks. If the teacher pays the Union and get low wages compared to local income they need to fire the union!
I have friends that are teachers. And in silicon valley a teacher can make 60-70k. That said, having hung out with the teachers enough, I would say the math and science teachers are under paid, and given the much larger supply of "qualified" people for all the other subjects those are the ones that are overpaid.
Given their pensions and such, teachers as a whole are overpaid, but due to their union and non merit based pay, there is a lot of inequity in their ranks.
Forgot Crooks aren't worth a dime. AIG or any others. Honest hard working people on any level deserve to make as much as the can produce.
How about food, clothing, shelter, transportation, energy & health care? Money is meaningless without these. So why do we hear so much about money & nothing about food. clothing, shelter, transportation, energy & health care? Is money more important? I know the oilgarchists will say you can't have food, clothing, shelter, transportation, energy & health care withou money. But, you can't have money without food, clothing, shelter, transportation, energy & health care either. You can't have one without the other. So why does Bernanke & his friends in the fat cat oligarchy only talk about money? Strange.
chas
Excellently done. I applaud you.
Smartest guy on the planet that can speak for over 1 FULL hour and SAY NOTHING.....
Bob_in_MA,
Bernanke knew the debt bubble was building for decades. Hell, he helped build it.
From Ben's perspective, things couldn't be better. FOR HIM. The only question is what can he do to keep the gravy training rolling long enough to complete the strip mining of America's future wealth that started 10-15 years ago? Ben and his friends don't have to live in this country, so they don't really care how bad the U.S. economy gets provided that it only gets bad after they're done squeezing out every last dime they can.
One thing that I always find interesting is how people always seem to assume bad outcomes are unexpected (or even undesirable) to those responsible for embarking on the course of action that results in those outcomes. Bubbles always result in the wealthiest becoming wealthier: if you have enough capital, you can make money in any market. Why do you think that Social Security is once again on the table? The Financial Sector needs more new capital to leech wealth from and invest it in foreign countries that are likely to grow more than the U.S.
While seeing the S&P 500 go to 400 tomorrow would not give me enough confidence to buy and HOLD equities in this market, there's a lot of money to be made actively trading equities even at this price point, as long as you don't get too greedy and let things ride for too long.
...for those comments, Bernanke should get the Nobel Prize in Chemistry....because only a mental chemical imbalance can explain the difference between what he said two years ago, and after, vs. his above quotation. A politician might get away with inconsistencies like that one, but not a Ph.D like him.
The guy should be nominated, definitely, for the Nobel Prize in Chemistry.
No, I think Greenspan and Phil Gramm will be against the wall, along with the other Red-neck Mothers. We'll do Ben, Paulson, and Geithner in the second round.
And when you were born you had Jim Crow segregation in the South and lynchings and . . . Might be a reason why all around you were white. I don't think these "perks" were available to all "when you was (sic) was born."
Maybe no ultras other than "ultrawhite." Oh for the days when the USA and South Africa was a meaningful comparison.
He destroyed Republicans with the collusion of the entire Republican Congressional contingent. If that's what you mean, OK, then, you're right.
If you view his cut taxes, increase spending, place Iraq spending off-budget, abrogate Constitutional liberties and harange Democrats concerned about those liberties as "traitors" as somehow un-Republican, despite the support of his Republican majority, Limbaugh, Fox (Glen Beck, Poppa Bear, etc.) , and the teabaggers, well, OK, whatever, what a collective abberation that was, with the advice and consent of the entire party. I'm a little amused by the tea-baggers concern about deficits and spending. Where were these demonstrations 6 years back, 5 years back, 4 years back, 3 years back, 2 years back, 1 year back, 6 months back? And now we're arguably in deflation, concerns over deficits suddenly arise to the point of open demonstration? Hyprocrites, thy protest too much. Oh, for the grand old days of Clintonian fiscal conservatism. Where were those supporters of fiscal conservatism, pay as you go (went South as soon as the GOP won Congress), etc.
I don't claim the DEMs as any better but the tea-bag demonstrations are, well, 6 years too late to be effective. Pay as you go for Iraq meant severe cuts 6 years ago or else large tax increases or maintaining the Clinton tax structure. Instead, you cut taxes, increased spending, put Iraq and other Bush spending off budget, then demonstrated after Obama won. J'accuse, vous hypocrites. I can't listen with a straight face after the bullshit of the last six years. I would have supported tax cuts to pay for Iraq but no conservatives had the cojones to link national security with the need for--gasp--tax increases to pay for a "war on terror." Instead, it was shifting profits to Haliburton and KBR, I fear.
Now that military cuts loom on the horizon, we have to balance the budget. OK, whatever. Where were you six years ago, I ask again. Where? Where? Where?
I went to Houston downtown demonstrating and all I saw were signs telling me I was a traitor for opposing the Iraq invasion looking for the WMD's we "knew" were out there. What was your stance, tea bag? In favor of tax raises to support the war? Or tax cuts in combination with off-budget invasions?
I'm really curious how serious this conviction of the perils of deficits really was six years back. Inform me, please. Or shut the hell up.
Well said Anonymous at 7:45 pm! Where were all these lovers of liberty (teabaggers) 8 years ago, 6 years ago, 4 years ago...
Innovation is good.