All banks are down in early trading. Fundamentals!!!
Many, like Goldman Sachs, which wants to return the TARP money, are very reliant on the FDIC backing of their debt. Goldman Sach's benefit from the FDIC backstop is greater than what they received from TARP.
The pig's lipstick is cracking
WASHINGTON (AP) - A senior administration officials says President Barack Obama is ready to ask federal department and agency chiefs to find $100 million to cut from the budget when he holds his first formal Cabinet meeting.
The official previewed Topic A for Monday's Cabinet meeting on grounds of anonymity because it will be a private session. He said Obama will be reminding Cabinet members that financially-pressed families are looking to the government to spend their money wisely.
The president's first formal Cabinet meeting is being held just days after a series of "Tea Party" demonstrations across the country in which protesters challenged the administration over it's massive spending. A cut of $100 million in a multitrillion-dollar federal budget likely will be criticized by Obama's opponents as inadequate.
OT-- ORCL buying JAVA
Dave in SV
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NEW YORK (AP) - American International Group Inc. completed a sale of preferred stock and issued warrants to the Treasury Department as part of a previously announced plan to receive additional financial support from the government, according to a regulatory filing submitted Monday.
New York-based AIG said in the Securities and Exchange Commission filing that it sold preferred stock and issued warrants to the government on Friday in exchange for $29.84 billion. The new funds are now immediately available for AIG's use.
The additional funding was announced last month when AIG disclosed a fourth-quarter loss of $61.7 billion, the largest ever quarterly corporate loss in U.S. history.
As part of the deal, AIG must avoid bankruptcy and the government must remain the majority owner of the insurer. The agreement also restricts AIG's ability to repurchase stock and requires limits on corporate expenses, lobbying and executive compensation.
AIG has received four rounds of support from the government since the credit crisis mushroomed in September. AIG initially received loans totaling about $85 billion to help it remain in business. The government has since renegotiated the funding and expanded it. As part of AIG's financial support the government has taken a roughly 80 percent stake in the insurer. AIG has now received a package of loans from the government worth about $180 billion.
Credit cards used to be a license to print money. I know they say loses due to quality is to blame but I think it is their practices that drive quality users away.
Obama Vows Crackdown As Banks Hike Fees
Kimberly Dozier Reporting
Millions of Americans are saddled with high debt. Now, the White House says it will back new legislation cracking down on credit card companies for surprise fees and sudden rate hikes, reports CBS News correspondent Kimberly Dozier.
It really doesn't matter what APR these CC companies set, if 50 percent or more of the folks with the highest fees stop paying.
Have to love the asymetric mark to market, fine for liabilities but assets will be marked to myth. Don't most bond covenenats expressly forbid the company from buying them back absent calling the issue (usually at at least par, if not at a premium).
So if my tax dollars are going towards paying everyone else's credit card bills, can I deduct that as a charitable contribution on next year's tax return?
/s
'is their practices that drive quality users away'
I'm curious - do you define 'quality' the same way that a credit card company would?
Because a credit card company defines 'quality' in terms of the revenue that a credit card company can extract from the card holder. I will assume your idea of 'quality user' is what a credit card company would dismiss with some term like 'freeloaders.'
Credit card companies are about nothing but making money from debt and getting a cut of every transaction which they can. Quality has nothing to do with it.
I'll believe it when I see it, Dawg. Announcements from the White House are propaganda ploys. When you dig into the details, there's nothing behind the bluster. O was, and is, Wall Street's man. He won't do anything to upset that apple cart. He'll make it appear he is battling the bankers, but there will be no susbtance beyond the rhetoric.
BofA offers round-up savings: use their debit card and they'll round-up to the nearest dollar and deposit the difference into a savings account. But you've got to wait a year. Max $250 round-up savings. I think that it means that they are willing to pay you as much as $250 to keep your account open another year. Seems like an act of desperation.
And the layoffs continue....
GM exec says 1,600 will lose jobs in next few days
By TOM KRISHER – 1 hour ago
DETROIT (AP) - About 1,600 workers at General Motors Corp. will lose their jobs in the next few days as the troubled automaker accelerates cost cuts in order to qualify for more government aid.
GM North America President Troy Clarke said in an e-mail to employees sent Monday that the layoffs are needed to ensure the company's long-term viability.
"In these unprecedented times, GM is reinventing every aspect of our business, including our organizational size and structure, to create a lean and agile company," Clarke wrote in the e-mail obtained by The Associated Press.
Clarke said the next week will be "a very trying time for the entire GM team, but especially for those employees directly impacted by these actions."
GM is living on $13.4 billion in government loans. The automaker faces a June 1 deadline to cut costs and gain concessions from stakeholders in order to get more government help.
Last month GM began cutting 3,400 U.S. salaried jobs as part of the 47,000 job cuts that it will make worldwide by year's end.
The e-mail says GM's leadership team has received training on how to handle the layoff notification process with respect and dignity. The company, he said, will provide laid-off workers with resources and support through the process.
GM must cut costs and win concessions from bondholders and its unions in order to get more government aid. The government's auto task force has said the company must persuade the holders of $28 billion in GM bonds to take stock in exchange for part of the debt.
Unions in the U.S. and Canada must agree to concessions, too. For GM to qualify for more help, the United Auto Workers must agree to take stock for part of the roughly $20 billion that GM must pay into a union-run trust that will take over retiree health care costs starting next year.
If it doesn't restructure enough by the deadline, Detroit-based GM could be forced into Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection with the government providing financing. The government advocates a short "surgical" bankruptcy to cancel debt, change union contracts and separate underperforming units from the company.
08:11 ET 10-Yr: +16/32..2.889%.. USD/JPY: 98.5250.. EUR/USD: 1.2972
If the current indication for the S&P 500 futures holds, the equity market would be expected to start the day with a decline of about 1.6%.
The weakness in stocks is peculiar since there is some notable M&A activity (Oracle buying Sun Microsystems for $7.4 bln) and a number of companies that are reporting better-than-expected earnings -- developments that would typically be construed as supportive for stocks.
Reportedly, the angst about the stock market going too far, too fast has returned as traders are questioning the trajectory of the economic recovery.
http://www.briefing.com/Investor/Public/MarketSnapshot/BondMarketUpdate.htm
.............................
If you don't take your profits, someone else will.
I'm curious - do you define 'quality' the same way that a credit card company would?
Because a credit card company defines 'quality' in terms of the revenue that a credit card company can extract from the card holder. I will assume your idea of 'quality user' is what a credit card company would dismiss with some term like 'freeloaders.'
Tanta explained this years ago. For the banks quality means carry a balance and ability to pay. I'm a freeloader, they don't like me. I don't care about interest rates or penalty fees because they never apply to me. For the people they do make money from however rates and fees are important and the recent increases are driving them elsewhere. CCard transactions were down 8% in 2008. And remember, that runs straight out of the bottom line via merchant fees.
reposted from the previous thread for Rob Dawg :
Werner wrote on Mon, 04/20/2009 - 6:06am.
re : Rob Dawg (member) wrote on Mon, 04/20/2009 - 4:48am.
...Probably a hoax...
From : Nouriel Roubini Feb 10, 2009
(http://www.rgemonitor.com/roubini-monitor/255507/it_is_time_to_nationali...)
... "...So these figures suggests that the US banking system is effectively insolvent in the aggregate... "
So Rob Dawg , still "Probably a hoax" ?
From the sociological perspective, this is going to be an interesting angle on unemployment and The American Crisis (tm):
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d28c79d6-2d11-11de-8710-00144feabdc0.html
The US recession has opened up the biggest gap between male and female unemployment rates since records began in 1948, as men bear the brunt of the economy's contraction.
Men have lost almost 80 per cent of the 5.1m jobs that have gone in the US since the recession started, pushing the male unemployment rate to 8.8 per cent. The female jobless rate has hit 7 per cent.
Another big bank with results bolstered by "trading". Trading worthless stuff to AIG for big cash from uncle sugar?
here's the "reporter" for the 16/19 bank insolvency. not exactly a paragon of professionalism.
From : Nouriel Roubini Feb 10, 2009
... "...So these figures suggests that the US banking system is effectively insolvent in the aggregate... "
So Rob Dawg , still "Probably a hoax" ?
Yes. Sure the banks in aggregate are insolvent. That doesn't validate the truth of this stress test leak.
http://doomisnigh.blogspot.com/2009/04/breaking-news-bank-stress-test.html
Breaking news, stress test results leaked.
Doomisnigh.blogspot.com
"Tanta explained this years ago. For the banks quality means carry a balance and ability to pay. I'm a freeloader, they don't like me. I don't care about interest rates or penalty fees because they never apply to me. For the people they do make money from however rates and fees are important and the recent increases are driving them elsewhere. CCard transactions were down 8% in 2008. And remember, that runs straight out of the bottom line via merchant fees."
------------------
And now the people the banks have valued most highly as customers are the folks who will be defaulting in unimaginable droves.
Okay. Enough already. The Turner leak. We all see it. There's nothing to discuss until we get more information.
Anyone want to bet whether this airport EVER opens?
DUBAI, United Arab Emirates (AP) - Dubai's airport chief says a new airport touted as the world's biggest could see its first flight pushed back even further than currently planned.
Dubai Airports CEO Paul Griffiths told The Associated Press in an interview Monday the latest opening date for Al Maktoum International is now June 2010, up from an earlier planned opening this June.
He says he is working to make operations at Dubai's existing airport more efficient. That could in effect delay the time when additional capacity at the new airport is needed.
He says officials will review Al Maktoum's opening date in the coming weeks.
Griffiths also says the number of runways planned for the new airport has been scaled back to five from six.
Dirk--yes, it's amazing how they use mark to market on one side and not the other. Why doesn't anyone on CNBS mention this? Or mention Golman's bucket month in their last report?
Return of the Kitchen Sink!
......amazing how all the banks started making money again - all in the same quarter - all beating guesstimates - and all are still taking it "in the shorts" with people refusing to pay their credit card & mortgage payments.
.......I know people buying a second home at 2009 prices and dumping the home they're upside down in - before the ink even dries on the new one. Seems to be an all-pervasive "Screw 'em All" attitude sweeping the country.
- - - - -
Black 
Ranch
Credit cards-feh. I won't use them. Bankers make the merchants pay a little for every transaction and forbid the merchants from giving a cash discount. The banksters have enough of my tax money, plus my childrens', and grand-childrens', etc.
Rob Dawg: au contraire, mon frere
There is everything to discuss and nothing to determine absent more 'information'.
"Return of the Kitchen Sink!"
hmmm, maybe we will eventually see penny stock hype again as well.
.............................
If you don't take your profits, someone else will.
"Okay. Enough already. The Turner leak. We all see it. There's nothing to discuss until we get more information."
Agreed. Don't trust any news associated with someone named Turner.
BSR: Suppose you loan me a million dollars and I don't pay you back. Bad loan, right? Then, the gubmint gives you a million to cover the bad debt. Meanwhile, you collect a million on the CDS you acquired to cover the same note. And you collect another portion (maybe not the whole mill) on another CDS you acquired for the CDs, which BTW, you laid off like a bookie to hedge your other positions.
How do you not make money?
volker the viking wrote on Mon, 04/20/2009 - 6:30am.
Rob Dawg: au contraire, mon frere
There is everything to discuss and nothing to determine absent more 'information'.
Touché. 
Rob Dawg (member) wrote on Mon, 04/20/2009 - 6:27am.
Okay. Enough already. The Turner leak. We all see it. There's nothing to discuss until we get more information.
So, are you still in denial that Nouriel Roubini essentially said the same ?
"...So these figures suggests that the US banking system is effectively insolvent in the aggregate... "
(http://www.rgemonitor.com/roubini-monitor/255507/it_is_time_to_nationali...)
What if it was Norv Turner?
BSR: more--then you make a show of your desire to give back the money the gubmint gave you and the gubmint said, no thanks, not now. In fact, we'll let you know when you can give it back. What do you do next?
If the banksters can borrow money at less than one percent, and T-Bills are paying more than that, it won't be the banksters that are insolvent for long. Unca Sam, look out!
HEY! You leave Norv Turner out of this. He's got a plan.
Norv Turner's a genius. Football's Dick Motta.
GM to slough-off underperforming units?
And what will be left? Really. One line of truck, a few lines of hybrids, one line of sportscar? Profitability when it produces between 30-50,000 cars a year, and is rebranded as an American Boutique automative company?
--bh
Dr. Munch... what do you mean when you say Golman's bucket month? Reference to bucket shops?
"Further, todays Wall Street Journal (April 20, 2009) is confirming at this link that lending by the largest banks has DECREASED 23% since the government began the T.A.R.P. program....."
16 of 19 are Broke? That sure is a surprise. The "Bank of Black Star" is more solvent than any of THEM! What a joke.
- - - - -
Black Ranch
Werner,
If we acted on everything Roubini says... never mind. Just read what I said above:
Yes. Sure the banks in aggregate are insolvent. That doesn't validate the truth of this stress test leak.
this brings back memories!
as a fixed income analyst at Salomon I along with my boss Jay Weintraub wrote up the credit memorandum
when Citibank set aside a 7.2 billion loan loss reserve (about 32.5% of loan portfolio) for the LDC exposure in Latin America and the effect this
would have on other money center and supper regionals with similar exposure (good bye Mannie Hannie)
in real dollar terms it seem Citibank's was a greater set aside...
no?
'If either BofA or Citi went down - alone - that would wipe out the FDIC'
If I was a dawg, this would be the point where my claim to having provided this information would be prominent, along with all the appropriate Internet drama that could be mustered.
Until remembering that honestly, very few rational people spend all their time going through all the sludge in the comments, and who cares that much about what someone on a blog writes in its comments anyways.
Dr. Munch... what do you mean when you say Golman's bucket month? Reference to bucket shops?
They switched to calendar year reporting and left December an orphan with $2b in loses and other garbage.
Welcome back to the US, CR.........Did you eat at the park in Santa Monica like I suggested?
- - - - -
Black Ranch
'That doesn't validate the truth of this stress test leak.'
Except the leak, as CR noted, is almost blatantly false - but apart from that, please, keep commenting about how most people are incapable of recognizing the facts.
Anonymous wrote on Mon, 04/20/2009 - 6:43am.
'That doesn't validate the truth of this stress test leak.'
Except the leak, as CR noted, is almost blatantly false - but apart from that, please, keep commenting about how most people are incapable of recognizing the facts.
Get a handle and take a reading comprehension class.
Rob Dawg (member) wrote on Mon, 04/20/2009 - 4:48am.
...Probably a hoax...
I'm thinking the stress tests need to be recalibrated before releasing the upbeat results, judging by the meltdown in credit trends.
Leave Norv Turner out of this.
It wasn't his fault that he drafted Heath Shuler in the first round for the Redskins. He had a plan, akin to Paulson having a plan.
Any place to get a video link - if there is one - of the NPR event or was this entirely unrecorded?
homedad43
*snork*
We'll be told what the 'facts' are.
last thread, re: army refusing to put down Americans during civil unrest:
Lawyerliz writes:
Agreed, Nova. My son was in the Rangers and there's no way they'd shoot civilians.
What about "gunmen" or "terrorists"?
-------
http://www.afterthecrash.net - After the Crash, a blog shared by the CR Commenting Community. Hoopajoop on over.
OK, enough Elmo.
Where's Kermit when you really need him?
This part about Turner was kind of interesting on his wiki page:
Informant allegations
Allegations that Turner acts as an informant to the FBI surfaced after unidentified hackers claimed on Turner's website's forums that they had read email correspondence between him and an FBI agent, apparently his handler.[34] This led to a discussion on a neo-Nazi website on January 10, 2008, in which Turner revealed he was quitting political work, was ending his radio show and that he was separating "from the 'pro-White' movement".[34] Both the FBI and Turner declined to comment on the matter.[34] The Southern Poverty Law Center later reported that they had "revealed... that Turner was an FBI informant"[35] and the Anti-Defamation League reported that "a neo-Nazi Website had posted material reportedly found by the hackers, including alleged exchanges between himself and law enforcement agents that indicated that Turner had been providing information to them."[36]
I hate how this whole meltdown is turning me into a conspiracy theorist... So most likely scenario... he knows nothing and is making stuff up. Other scenarios... he does know people and has sources... he does know people and is "leaking" disinformation. Remember when the media was going to show Clinton's taped deposition? I remember the "leaks" of all of the bombshells that were going to be a part of the testimony. It created a ton of interest... people were lining up to watch the meltdown... then nothing really happened. Get people expecting the worst and the surprise them with something a little less horrible.
We need a good week or more of Elmo to get this thing down to 7000 or under, where it needs to be, and prune out the nonsense and chicanery
Elmo took an early vacation .......... "sell in May and go away"
spx 875 was pretty clearly at resistance.
.............................
If you don't take your profits, someone else will.
Dirk van Dijk (member) wrote on Mon, 04/20/2009 - 9:10am.
Have to love the asymetric mark to market, fine for liabilities but assets will be marked to myth. Don't most bond covenenats expressly forbid the company from buying them back absent calling the issue (usually at at least par, if not at a premium).
Yeah. I know that we're now going to let them create whatever magical profits they can out of their balance sheets, but this accounting allowance is truly unbelievable.
"Our bonds are trading at 25 cents on the dollar, so we could hypothetically purchase them on the open market at that amount, thus reducing our debt exposure by 75%. Voila!!" Except, the only way an issuer can close their existing debts is by calling them (usually at par and at preset points in time).
We are really "Through the Looking Glass" now. I'm not even surprised by things that I would have believed absolutely impossible 18 months ago - not the financial collapse, but the obfuscation and doubletalk being employed to pacify the peons.
Not saying, just suggesting. I could be wrong.
If the downturn has started in equities today, the test will be the recent lows. Slip past that and we may well see the 4,500 (+/-) in the Dow and 450(+/-) S&P. Wait for when the grown ups get back from lunch today. More will be revealed.
Don't listen to me though, I'm a knucklehead.
WRT military putting down US civilians:
In most dictatorships, the task of putting down internal dissent is left to secret police (NKVD, Gestapo, etc). Most soldiers are working class guys, or conscripts. Most military folks I know are pretty populist and would side with the angry mobs. Or at least the guys I work with (drunken sailors).
Pension funds vs. AIG..let the threats continue.
April 20 (Bloomberg) -- American International Group Inc., Morgan Stanley and other companies squandered more than $5 billion on executive pay since 2005 and must recoup the payments or face lawsuits, a pension fund said.
The Service Employees International Union's pension fund said today it sent letters to 29 companies, including AIG and Morgan Stanley, demanding that directors recover "incentivized executive pay" based on derivatives or other investments whose value was later written off.
re : Rob Dawg (member) wrote on Mon, 04/20/2009 - 6:39am.
Dash (Dash wrote on Mon, 04/20/2009 - 2:31am) summarized in his last setence the gist of the "leak" : ...Put bluntly, the entire US Banking System is in complete and total collapse... , as Roubini in a general sense said earlier ("...So these figures suggests that the US banking system is effectively insolvent in the aggregate... ".) and now you confirm (Rob Dawg (member) wrote on Mon, 04/20/2009 - 6:39am. ...Sure the banks in aggregate are insolvent...) .
So where , please , is the hoax you were talking about ?
(Rob Dawg (member) wrote on Mon, 04/20/2009 - 4:48am ...Probably a hoax...)
Werner: the 'hoax' is on you.
Frazier is getting his ass kicked.
The Rage of the Rich...
NY mag has a cover story on Wall Street folks who feel that they deserve their money, failures be damned, because they are who they are. No sense that they are surviving on taxpayer handouts...though few would be quoted by name. Obama has betrayed them by threatening to raise their taxes...oh for the good old days of George Bush.
Anyone else catch this on the NYT front page today?
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/20/business/20bailout.html?_r=3&partner=r...
It appears "nationalization by proxy" is moving forward.
Werner,
you're being especially dense. Turner is not a reliable source, the "leak" is not worth discussing, as it may be a hoax. Understand?
Werner wrote on Mon, 04/20/2009 - 7:01am.
and now you confirm (Rob Dawg (member) wrote on Mon, 04/20/2009 - 6:39am. ...Sure the banks in aggregate are insolvent...) .
So where , please , is the hoax you were talking about ?
Give it a rest. Some obscure commentator gets ahold of a report that isn't even expected for weeks and doles out a few tiny pieces that don't make sense or use proper terms? It is hard to grant any credibility.
what you say makes a lot of sense, Viking.
4500, wow.
However, I expect some serious national panic at 6000 and societal disruptions the likes of which we haven't seen since the 1960s long before 4500.
5000 will be a benchmark for this nation.
All, the Turner "leak" has a few flaws. If either BofA or Citi went down - alone - that would wipe out the FDIC - so why does the "memo" say "any two bank"?
Also, why mention 1,800 small and regional banks? The stress tests are for the 19 largest banks.
I'm not claiming the turner leak is real, but I think what he means by any two is if the least costly two went under, FDIC would be wiped out. He's not saying that none of them are large enough, on their own, to wipe out FDIC.
Even though the original scope was 19 banks, after getting the results it's possible they decided to run the numbers for other banks to see how they were likely to hold up. They probably had an algorithm and just need to raw data to plug in. They may have been looking to see if any of the smaller banks (or multiple smaller banks) were healthy enough to absorb any of the 19.
If things are as bad as inferred, I think the gov't needs to come clean. They can't cover up something like this and covering up will likely blow up in their faces. If Obama comes clean and says he inherited the mess and will do what's needed to fix it, he can only come out looking good or at least not look bad. If he tries to cover and it looks like he's covering, he'll look bad. He can say that after the careful analysis of the banks, this is what was found... . He didn't want to say anything until the analysis was complete.
BofA offers round-up savings: use their debit card and they'll round-up to the nearest dollar and deposit the difference into a savings account. But you've got to wait a year. Max $250 round-up savings. I think that it means that they are willing to pay you as much as $250 to keep your account open another year. Seems like an act of desperation.
Nope, I think means they are willing to pay you interest on your $250. I believe they are just moving money from your checking to your savings account. And making it sound like they are giving you free money Yippie!
Nationalize the damn banks and get it over with.
.............................
If you don't take your profits, someone else will.
"Germany's recession deepened in the first quarter of 2009, Bloomberg reported April 20, citing a statement by Bundesbank. Germany's economy has shrunk by 5.3 percent in 2009, and business confidence fell in March to its lowest level in more than 26 years."
Pavel Chichikov
http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/16/news/companies/tully_profitbubble.fortun...
The fall in earnigs of 84% would indicate a substantial downside risk for equities. It's all about the earnings.
What is 15% of 14,000?
Nuke, I must have known different people. On the contrary, they took, their military obligation to obey orders completely seriously.
Pavel Chichikov
SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - Oracle Corp. snapped up computer server and software maker Sun Microsystems Inc. for $7.4 billion Monday, pouncing on an opportunity that opened up after rival IBM Corp. abandoned an earlier bid to buy one of Silicon Valley's best known - and most troubled - companies.
The deal will end Sun's 27-year history as Silicon Valley's brash independent and give Oracle ownership of the Java programming language, which runs on more than 1 billion devices around the world. Oracle also will take charge of the Solaris operating system, which already has been a platform for much of Oracle's products.
It's far from Oracle's biggest acquisition during a four-year shopping spree that has cost more than $40 billion, but it may be the boldest.
Zardari has been fatally weakened - the questions appear to be when and how - not if...wonder which way the ISI and the larger military have placed their bets.
Clerics: Spread Shariah to all Pakistan
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan, April 20 (UPI) -- A Pakistani cleric says a government deal to allow Islamic law in the Swat Valley will open the way for its installation in other parts of the country.
Cleric Sufi Mohammed, in a televised speech Sunday, defied Pakistan's federal judiciary by saying he would not allow any appeals to state courts of decisions made under the system of Shariah, or Islamic law, approved for the Swat Valley as part of peace deal signed by President Asif Ali Zardari, The Washington Post reported.
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/04/20/Clerics-Spread-Shariah-to-all-Pak...
They were asking for something like the Turner story playing games with releasing the results. If it wasn't turner today it would have been somebody else tomorrow or next week.
Of course I'm sure the well connected will know the results long before the general public. How else can they maintain their "trading profits"?
The US domestic auto industry will be running at 50 % capacity this year. Obama is facing some type of liquidation of the industry, or subsidizing it for the long-term. A lot of stalling right now.
Next stop 7200 on the Dow then in a few months 6000-5500
7200 could easily be this week
fried (member) wrote on Mon, 04/20/2009 - 7:08am.
fried :
A lot od "unreliable sources" are posted and proffered here . But that's not the point !
As far as I can discern the gist of that "horrible horrible" source is : ...Put bluntly, the entire US Banking System is in complete and total collapse...
Even if if Turner was a "horrible source , in this case the gist of his "leak" was just the truth .
So , what's the uproar ("hoax") here if he only said the truth ?
After earnings, consider the historical (hysterical?) PE ratios. 15? 10? 6?
And, as earnings continue to erode (absent artificial means of propping up) the numbers look increasingly grim.
Werner wrote on Mon, 04/20/2009 - 7:23am.
So , what's the uproar ("hoax") here if he only said the truth ?
It destroys the signal to noise ratio.
Excerpt from this morning's Kunstler Missive:
People of good intentions and progressive predilection are scratching their heads wondering just how President Barack Obama managed to turn himself into George W. Bush Lite with sugar-on-top just twelve weeks after that fateful walk down the US Capitol's east stairway to the waiting helicopter. I'm hardly the first observer to note that Mr. Obama's actions in the face of an epochal finance fiasco and economic collapse are a mere extension of the pre-January-20 policies, carried out by much the same cast of characters.
The assumption up until now was something about the reassuring value of continuity -- if we could just prop up an ailing set of banks for a little while, the US public could resume a revolving credit way-of-life within an economy dedicated to building more suburban houses and selling all the needed accessories from supersized "family" cars to cappuccino machines. This would keep everyone employed at the jobs they were qualified for -- finish carpenters, realtors, pool installers, mortgage brokers, advertising account executives, Williams-Sonoma product demonstrators, showroom sales agents, doctors of liposuction, and so on.
This was a dumb strategy for such a supposedly bright group of people surrounding Mr. Obama. That old economy was dead on arrival January 20th. Even the kindest physicians don't put corpses on life support. This particular corpse has been placed in the world's cushiest intensive care unit, with transfusions running about a trillion dollars a month -- not to mention hefty bonuses for the attending nurses. Instead, a fast and furious wake might have been held, with the corpse of the old economy laid out on a granite countertop for all to toast and bid farewell. President Obama might have led this exercise with some aplomb -- even while directing his new justice department warriors to round up a host of suspects in the old economy's suspicious death.
fried (member) wrote on Mon, 04/20/2009 - 7:06am.
The Rage of the Rich...
Yes, they certainly feel a sense of entitlement, don't they?
I just don't get how paper pushers think what they're doing is so important.
"Cap-pi-tal, Cap-pi-tal, Cap-pi-tal" - Zombie BAC
Werner,
I don't now why I bother, but intelligent posters are waiting for a source with reliable credentials to provide this info. If you want to believe Turner, because it suits you, then do so.
But don't waste more bandwith as if this is something to be discussed.
http://www.generationaldynamics.com/cgi-bin/D.PL?xct=gd.e070823
old but relevant
After earnings, consider the historical (hysterical?) PE ratios. 15? 10? 6?
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http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/images/2009/Apr/bloom-20_image001.gif
Way too grim.
That's Ballgame, Goat Herders wrote on Mon, 04/20/2009 - 7:19am.
...The deal ... give Oracle ownership of the Java programming language, which runs on more than 1 billion devices around the world.
Sounds great (and Java runs on my PC too) but is worth NOTHING !
Java (and other stuff) is given away for free !
So, sounds bombastically but is worth nothing ! Nice try .
"Just three of the 19 largest TARP banks increased lending from October to February and the total dollar amount of new loans declined in three of the four months, the Journal reported.
According to the Journal analysis, 19 financial institutions made of refinanced a total of $226.3 billion of loans in October, compared to just $174.2 billion in February."
http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/markets/economy/wsj-lending-falls-reali...
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The Rage of the poor if they paid their fair share of federal income taxes!
How to Distinguish the Bank's Quarterly Results
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HaHa: uffdah! But, like I been suggesting...
Am i the only one who is thinking that once Obama and his crew got a look at the books that they knew the game was up either way and right now elongating the crisis with the only hope of a steadying the economy saving the US and subsequently the world from falling back 100 years
-I just don't get how paper pushers think what they're doing is so important. -
You've never worked in a bureaucracy. In my experience, the farther one gets from actual work, the more self-important they are.
Pavel:
What branch were of the service were you in?
Hal turner is an idiot, and his "leaks" are all bullshit lies designed to drive traffic to his failed white supremacist radio show/blog. His last "scoop" was when he bought one of those novelty "amero" coins and said that he had a friend inside the treasury department and a major bank tell him that they had shipped pallets of these new currency units to various fed reserve banks.
In truth he is a part time janitor and window repair man (when he can get this work) in jersey city, new jersey, where he lives in and manages a crappy apartment complex twenty feet from a huge interstate. He was involved in the white nationalist movement, specifically in the "fundraising for himself" part of it, until a series of emails leaked that appeared to show him selling out the personal information of white nationalists to an FBI agent as a regular paid informant arrangement type of exchange.
Since "splitting" from the movement he has relied on various retarded, 9/11 here is a dead alien type of "leaks" to drive traffic and possibly get his radio show back.
Now you are educated. Don't post this shithead's links. He is a window repairman from new jersey who has been rejected even by the white nationalists.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hal_Turner
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http://www.afterthecrash.net - After the Crash, a blog shared by the CR Commenting Community. Hoopajoop on over.
Hoopajoops:
Is this the same Turner from "The Turner Diaries"? Or is that another right-wing nut?
fried (member) wrote on Mon, 04/20/2009 - 7:35am.
...Werner, I don't now why I bother, but intelligent posters are waiting for a source with reliable credentials to provide this info. If you want to believe Turner, because it suits you, then do so.
But don't waste more bandwith as if this is something to be discussed...
LOL .
"Treasury: Caught Lying Again"
(http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/972-Treasury-Caught-Lying-Ag...)
Turner may be a "horrible" source but still better than your Treasury . Haha.
It is a clever game. Create fictitious securities. Trade them back and forth with your co-conspirators, churning up huge real bonuses. Make lots of money for yourselves. Get out of the way of the crashing death star.
When the telecoms were trading worthless bandwidth back and forth a while back, folks actually went to jail. Guess they didn't pay off the right people. Go figure!
Turner, which turner are we speaking of here? So many comments, so little time.
meltdowns are quite fascinating in real time... any one remember when Stansfield Turner was nominated under Bush '41 or was it Clinton for
CIA chief? and the meltdown he had on camera... (Bill Belichek tried to do him one better when he re-signed as coach of the Jets after just one day...)
How could Wells Fargo post such low credit losses when everyone else is posting such high ones?
Dirk van Dijk wrote:
"assets will be marked to myth."
Excellent ! That phrase is a keeper 
Hal Turner is a known disinformation agent. Do not believe anything coming from him as a source.
is this including the $100B backstop?