Comments for Q4 Mortgage Equity Extraction Strongly Negative
CRbot says:
This comment thread has been HALO-IZED by CRbot.
http://realize.org/cr/halokit.php?halourl=http://www.haloscan.com/comments/calculatedrisk/6767000721070078578
CRbot Tue Mar 24 10:52:23 2009 CDT #
JP says:
Help! My equity is trapped in my house!
It must be liberated, I say!
JP Tue Mar 24 10:54:04 2009 CDT #
Newman (Hello Jerry....) says:
ouch
Newman (Hello Jerry....) Tue Mar 24 10:54:08 2009 CDT #
Basel Too says:
do reverse mortgages count as equity withdrawals?
Basel Too Tue Mar 24 10:55:33 2009 CDT #
Lifeguard1999 says:
Rep. Michele Bachmann did a good job questioning the Bernanke and Geithner.
Lifeguard1999 Tue Mar 24 10:56:45 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
I don't see how Geitner's plan is likely to cause the government to pay LESS for the toxic assets. If a mortgage was valued by the market at 20 cents on the dollar, the new public private auctions could cause that to go up to 80 cents on the dollar, of which, the government pays half or 40 cents. It just puts more money in the hands of the selling bank, part of it our tax money.
Anonymous Tue Mar 24 10:56:47 2009 CDT #
RockyR says:
Gee. This just seems like one of those things that can't be positive forever.
:-/
RockyR Tue Mar 24 10:57:26 2009 CDT #
Lifeguard1999 says:
"Just like there are other Madoffs out there, there may also be others AIGs out there and they should be grounded as well."
Not really a direct quote, but a great line of questioning.
Lifeguard1999 Tue Mar 24 10:58:15 2009 CDT #
Cinco-X says:
If it's not Lloyds, then there probably isn't another one out there. AIG is REALLY big!
Parent Post
Cinco-X Tue Mar 24 11:04:08 2009 CDT #
Mr. Sparkle says:
CR - Just out of curiosity, why is this data series being discontinued? I realize they probaly have better things to do but the tracking of this should have - in theory - been a huge warning sign. I suppose it was to some people. Also, where was this series released on a quarterly basis? Any public source?
Mr. Sparkle Tue Mar 24 10:58:17 2009 CDT #
Basel Too says:
This just seems like one of those things that can't be positive forever.
If real estate only went up, it could be possible!
Basel Too Tue Mar 24 10:59:03 2009 CDT #
reptillian says:
Mortgage piggy bank is empty.
reptillian Tue Mar 24 11:02:15 2009 CDT #
Guest says:
Part of the correction process and good news. Thx CR - helpful post.
Guest Tue Mar 24 11:02:25 2009 CDT #
rich says:
A couple of good items in today's NY Times.
Sasha Cohen is contemplating a comeback to competitive skating for the 2010 Olympics. Go Sasha! For newbies, CR is a friend of the Cohen family.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/24/sports/othersports/24skating.html?scp=1&sq=Sasha&st=cse
Also, the Times' lead editorial today is on-the-money critical of the Geithner plan:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/24/opinion/24tue1.html
"In other banking crises, both in this country and abroad, resolution of a systemwide problem has sooner or later involved separating solvent banks from insolvent banks. In the end, there is no getting around firing the executives at failing banks, acknowledging the losses, wiping out the shareholders and then deciding how the government can best restructure the institutions. The Obama administration has yet to explain why its approach is better than that."
Geithner has consistently been a hypocrite for advocating transparency yet failing to deliver it. He has got to go. The American people should stop aiming their wrath at pennies and start aiming it at the trillions of dollars Geithner keeps trying to hide under a blanket. When is the man going to deliver ANY real transparency?
rich Tue Mar 24 11:03:11 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
The entire political structure rather then Geithner is at fault, he is the political point guy today and will be replaced by another and another.
Parent Post
Anonymous Tue Mar 24 11:08:50 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
would expect higher numbers down steam from this latest refi boom by the FED. Sooner or later the FED, Treasury, Congress are going to need an actual functioning economy to tax rather then these refi at lower rates hoping to put a few more bucks in consumer pockets.
Anonymous Tue Mar 24 11:05:48 2009 CDT #
homedad43 says:
I still have some HELOC checks around from my old house. Could I use them for a new addition? I need to run up some debt so I can move forward into the New Millenium.
homedad43 Tue Mar 24 11:07:13 2009 CDT #
fresno dan says:
When you multiple or divide negative numbers, you get a positive. So...if your house is worthless, and you get a home equity loan (hey, there is still plenty of frauds out there, working diligently on new scams - we're a nation of entrepeneurs), the negative on the negative equals a positive - you've got money!!! Buy SUV's and flat screens! Did that??? Do it some more!!!
fresno dan Tue Mar 24 11:07:18 2009 CDT #
Cinco-X says:
Since you can divide by zero, you can get an infinite amount of money! ;-)
Parent Post
Cinco-X Tue Mar 24 11:20:14 2009 CDT #
Lifeguard1999 says:
Rep Ed Royce (R-California) challenged Geithner/Bernanke on AIG undercutting other insurance companies by 30% to gain business since AIG is now backed by the Fed. Bernanke denies that AIG is doing this.
(BTW: He has a great website that posts all his videos.)
Lifeguard1999 Tue Mar 24 11:07:30 2009 CDT #
Yalt says:
Rep Ed Royce (R-California) challenged Geithner/Bernanke on AIG undercutting other insurance companies by 30% to gain business since AIG is now backed by the Fed. Bernanke denies that AIG is doing this.
And Mr. Bernanke is probably correct. AIG is slashing renewal premiums to try to hold on to the business they have; I serously doubt they're writing a lot of new business.
Parent Post
Yalt Tue Mar 24 11:58:31 2009 CDT #
scone says:
This is a good thing, except for small business financing, obviously. Not everybody was using the home ATM to buy flat screen TVs-- many were using it in lieu of a small business loan. Betting the farm. It will take a few years before the fear wears off and people are willing to take that type of risk again.
In other news, apparently the smaller traders such as Cantor Fitzgerald are hiring:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601100&sid=advOE636FaQM&refer=germany
scone Tue Mar 24 11:07:33 2009 CDT #
Comrade Janosik says:
So people are broke and whatever wealth anyone has left is quickly disappearing...but the citizenry is the backstop for the banking system which is trillions of dollars in the hole...
We are so incredibly screwed...how much longer can this thing hold together....
I give it 3 months. Tops.
Comrade Janosik Tue Mar 24 11:09:38 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
"We are so incredibly screwed...how much longer can this thing hold together.... "
My hope is that as the HELOC funded college students and medical care have to pay thier own way, prices will fall to sane levels.
Parent Post
Blackhalo Tue Mar 24 11:12:51 2009 CDT #
Bob Dobbs says:
Somewhere, in some comment on some blog, some poster decried the proposed purchase of the toxic assets as "Mussolini-style corporatism:" doing everything to prop up the regime's corporate constituents at a great price to society as a whole.
And that is really where we are. People (not most here) equate fascism with uniforms, war, genocide. But it's really about a small group of the "people that matter" running everything for their own benefit. And throwing out scapegoats as necessary to keep the mob happy (AIG) or starting wars of conquest that benefit the interests of their coterie.
And that all sounds too familiar.
http://www.talesfromthecoast.blogspot.com
Bob Dobbs Tue Mar 24 11:11:23 2009 CDT #
Guest says:
Is this cart being driven or pushed and pulled?
http://www.dunwalke.com/
Parent Post
Guest Tue Mar 24 12:23:24 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
"Somewhere, in some comment on some blog, some poster decried the proposed purchase of the toxic assets as "Mussolini-style corporatism:" doing everything to prop up the regime's corporate constituents at a great price to society as a whole."
I was particularly fond of the rep who was pointing out that AIG insurance beneficiaries are being made whole while the 401Ks are not.
Parent Post
Blackhalo Tue Mar 24 12:34:49 2009 CDT #
section321 says:
Don't forget the violent nationalism. Always a hallmark of facism. The "we'll put a boot in your ass because we're America" mindset.
Parent Post
section321 Tue Mar 24 14:00:45 2009 CDT #
1 currency now [yogi] :) says:
Gotta love Brad Sherman (D, CA)
1 currency now [yogi] :) Tue Mar 24 11:12:13 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
"Gotta love Brad Sherman (D, CA)"
Agreed. Those were some hard, pointed questons that represent his constituents interests and give lie to what Geithner is trying to do. It was fun watching him squirm, as I doubt he is used to having his nose rubbed in hid incompetence.
Parent Post
Blackhalo Tue Mar 24 12:32:34 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
"do reverse mortgages count as equity withdrawals?"
Good question, I don't know though.
From what I've read, these are loans with the house as collateral, and not a 100+ % home loan so I'm guessing no.
Anonymous Tue Mar 24 11:13:30 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
The U.S. Treasury Department preserved a payday for five banks that was worth almost 200 times the bonuses handed out at American International Group Inc. through a government rescue.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601110&sid=a5V0jKS7y.WI
The greatest fleecing in the history of the world continues unabated. Let the beating continue.
Anonymous Tue Mar 24 11:16:47 2009 CDT #
Jas says:
Home ATM was 5 times more powerful than the Obama-Geithner stimulus plan. With 5:1 odds, the US economy would enter and remain in deflationary depression soon and remain there for at least 2 years.
Jas
Jas Tue Mar 24 11:16:56 2009 CDT #
Lifeguard1999 says:
Ron Paul is asking questions in the AIG oversight hearing.
http://www.cnn.com/video/flashLive/live.html?stream=stream1
Lifeguard1999 Tue Mar 24 11:17:12 2009 CDT #
Michael says:
Ron Paul is on!
Michael Tue Mar 24 11:17:13 2009 CDT #
z says:
Michael, stop the Ron Paul
troll. Please. It's not funny or cute. Please don't ruin this message board.
Parent Post
z Tue Mar 24 11:24:25 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
Ron Paul is on!
What a waste. He should have asked, "what was the root cause of the bubble?" "How do you plan to prevent future bubbles?" "Why did you not see this crash coming?" "How do you get government out of the free market when we are now the world largest lender and insurer?"
And then he could have hung them with their answers.
Parent Post
Blackhalo Tue Mar 24 11:32:13 2009 CDT #
Cinco-X says:
"How do you plan to prevent future bubbles?"
BH,
Do we know what differentiates "bubbles" from normal business? I recall the long gone company Visual Technology, that went from a start-up making the first DEC compatible terminals in someone's basement to a company of several thousand employees, making the first portable PC-XT, and eventually dwindling back to oblivion due to unrestrained and unmonitored growth, poor business decisions, the vagaries of the market, and foreign competition. Apollo Computer followed a similar path. These two situations were basically local isolated bubbles, and their behavior could readily be extrapolated to the economy at large.
And I'm not so sure that the government should be trying to manipulate these companies, or for that matter, the economy to keep this from happening. The problem we're experiencing now is due to the fact that the government actually "encouraged" some of these big players to engage in inappropriate behavior; see Fannie, Freddie, etc.
Parent Post
Cinco-X Tue Mar 24 11:50:02 2009 CDT #
dryfly says:
These two situations were basically local isolated bubbles,
Local isolated 'bubbles' aren't bubbles... Bubbles are mass insanity... regular garden variety insanity is just insanity.
Now if you have enough local events they can have 'global impact'... but not every single local event proves the global case. The sum of anecdotes does become data but only when 'n' is very large.
Parent Post
dryfly Tue Mar 24 12:02:51 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
"The problem we're experiencing now is due to the fact that the government actually "encouraged" some of these big players to engage in inappropriate behavior; see Fannie, Freddie, etc."
And that is kind of the point of the queston. By socializing risk, we have invited irrational behavior on a grand scale.
Parent Post
Blackhalo Tue Mar 24 12:29:47 2009 CDT #
Cinco-X says:
Oh! Then I guess we agree. What was the question;-)
Parent Post
Cinco-X Tue Mar 24 12:59:30 2009 CDT #
homedad43 says:
Bob Dobbs:
Concur. I can't get people to differentiate fascism from nazism for the life of me.
homedad43 Tue Mar 24 11:17:45 2009 CDT #
Cinco-X says:
Nazism was just one manifestation of fascism. Other instantiations were only mildly better, and could have been worse with the right "fearless leader". Fascism still sucks.
Parent Post
Cinco-X Tue Mar 24 11:27:46 2009 CDT #
OkieLawyer says:
homedad43 says:
Today, 11:17:45 AM
I can't get people to differentiate fascism from nazism for the life of me.
(snark) Well, Naziism stands for national socialism. Since it contains the word socialism, it obviously a political ideology of the far left. Fascism, being on the political far right obviously is diametrically opposed to socialism in all its forms. (/snark)
Parent Post
OkieLawyer Tue Mar 24 11:37:56 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
'Fascism, being on the political far right obviously is diametrically opposed to socialism in all its forms.'
Boy, do I have a book for you to read correcting you on the idea that fascism is just another form of socialism.
If you can read it through the tears of laughter.
Parent Post
Anonymous Tue Mar 24 12:43:17 2009 CDT #
Cinco-X says:
Y'all should check out:
http://www.politicalcompass.org/
and take the test. As it turns out, the differences between left and right are measured on an economic scale, while authoritarian versus libertarian are measured on a social scale. Thus, if you approve of state control of the economy, whether you're communist, socialist, or fascist, you're on the left end of the scale, away from free markets.
Parent Post
Cinco-X Tue Mar 24 13:06:52 2009 CDT #
Morocco Bama says:
It's difficult to extarct nothing.....but MIT physicists are working on it.
In the meantime, people can use their daughters as collateral.
Morocco Bama Tue Mar 24 11:17:57 2009 CDT #
Comrade Janosik says:
Bob Dobbs,
The question for me now is...did it go too far this time.
Everything is being done to preserve the structures that exist...but at least on the surface it seems like some of the old controls aren't working anymore.
We've dismantled the real economy and replaced it with a financial "fake" economy...based on high yield debt. But people can't pay to play anymore. Yes, we're trying to expand the monetary base (inflate), but there are extreme outside pressures that come into play at that juncture. Bonds, the dollar....corporatists can be global...but people are national...and they've been made increasingly so lately...
Comrade Janosik Tue Mar 24 11:19:05 2009 CDT #
Basel Too says:
Home ATM was 5 times more powerful than the Obama-Geithner stimulus plan.
Makes sense, since the only reason to access the house ATM is to spend.
Basel Too Tue Mar 24 11:20:43 2009 CDT #
Cinco-X says:
At my previous job, the founders all used MEW to help start the company. That's a good use. Paying for a liver transplant is potentially another good use.
Please no comments about universal health care; that sort of procedure will be one of the first to be eliminated.
Parent Post
Cinco-X Tue Mar 24 11:30:19 2009 CDT #
homedad43 says:
Morocco:
Early Martin Mull song...
Saddle up your buckboards,
crack your whips.
Tell your horse that the course is the mighty Missipp!
Keep your strongest son,
shoot the rest,
Sell your daughter with the biggest breasts
We'll need that money when we get out west!
Headin' for the Cumberland Gap,
No Crap!
Yeah, we're headin' for the Cumberland Gap!
- Martin Mull
homedad43 Tue Mar 24 11:20:47 2009 CDT #
Basel Too says:
My hope is that as the HELOC funded college students and medical care have to pay thier own way, prices will fall to sane levels.
It's amazing how government subsidies (e.g. mortgage interest deductions, student loans, health care, etc.) distort prices.
Basel Too Tue Mar 24 11:22:19 2009 CDT #
Cinco-X says:
Agreed; so much for the "free" market. There hasn't been one in this country for a long time, not that this is all bad. Something had to be done about Standard Oil, US Steel, etc.
Parent Post
Cinco-X Tue Mar 24 11:31:54 2009 CDT #
Tom Stone says:
Sons make for better collateral in SF,as long as they are younger than 10
Tom Stone Tue Mar 24 11:23:40 2009 CDT #
Cinco-X says:
I realize there's snarkyness in these comments, but remember that in Thailand, those things actually happen.
Parent Post
Cinco-X Tue Mar 24 11:33:09 2009 CDT #
stefan says:
Why no more updates? Anybody taking over? I love this data and want updates...
stefan Tue Mar 24 11:24:13 2009 CDT #
kuato says:
We don't need no steenking MEW, we are stealing it right from the gubbermint now.
kuato Tue Mar 24 11:26:11 2009 CDT #
Lifeguard1999 says:
Well, if you missed Ron Paul, that's okay. It was not one of his better grillings. Basically he asked whether Brenanke favors capitalism or crony capitalism.
Bernanke says he favors "capitalism". [ What else could he say? ] The Fed was established in 1913 in response to the Boom/Bust cycle and in particular the Panic of 1907.
Ron Paul then says that the Bust cycle used to last 1 year or so, and now it is going to last longer. Then Ron Paul ran out of time....
Lifeguard1999 Tue Mar 24 11:26:33 2009 CDT #
Lawyerliz says:
The hub was so cheery yesterday, what with the stock mkt and all, and was saying the cause of everything was pessimism. I said nope, even mentioned no more MEW, which didn't get through to him, then said PE ratios were still way too high.
And the news was not "good", it was merely better than horrible, which is entirely different. And people couldn't spend more money if they don't have higher salaries, and where is that gonna come from?
Amazing. And he lives with me!! =-O
Lawyerliz Tue Mar 24 11:28:21 2009 CDT #
Morocco Bama says:
Maybe we can get banks to loan to people with negative equity if we allow them the right to harvest the loan recipient's organs at a designated, or undesignated, time in the future.
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=monty+python+organ+doantion&hl=en&emb=0&aq=f#
Morocco Bama Tue Mar 24 11:28:22 2009 CDT #
JS123 says:
This board has a long history of being interested in what Ron Paul has to say and looking forward to his questions to Bernanke, et al. Far longer than "z" has been posting here.
JS123 Tue Mar 24 11:28:41 2009 CDT #
crispy and cole says:
Ron Paul...I have grown tired of this clown! What has he done? Nothing! He pops off in hearings and then what happens? Nothing! He is worthless.
crispy and cole Tue Mar 24 11:28:51 2009 CDT #
Tailspin says:
Yeah I used to appreciate RP more than I do now. Maybe because over time I've grown to see him as just an ineffectual "I Told You So" Incapable of anything except pointing out the problems and causes. Both Robini and Krugman are in this group as well. No one's a Hero until they can actually fix this. What we need is a financial Jesus. Everybody pray.
Parent Post
Tailspin Tue Mar 24 13:01:55 2009 CDT #
Tailspin says:
Oh I forgot. The PTB crucified him. Nevermind my previous post.
Parent Post
Tailspin Tue Mar 24 13:03:46 2009 CDT #
Guest says:
Unlike the rest of the clowns who effect radical change with their nonsense.
Parent Post
Guest Tue Mar 24 13:12:19 2009 CDT #
PTDBD says:
Bernanke says he is working hard to get that bailout money back. Now, that's a promise you can take to the bank!
PTDBD Tue Mar 24 11:29:46 2009 CDT #
Latka says:
Why so few angry comments? Most of the time when there is some good news out there (i.e. anything showing the correction process is underway), we get a multitude furor from the gallows about how its fake, distorted, not better, worse, far far away from bottom, etc.
No one other than Jas has anything angry to say?
Latka Tue Mar 24 11:29:51 2009 CDT #
Jas says:
--
Dopes are shell-shocked!
Jas
Parent Post
Jas Tue Mar 24 12:17:55 2009 CDT #
Morocco Bama says:
Nazism is Fascism without bagels.
Morocco Bama Tue Mar 24 11:31:34 2009 CDT #
Lawyerliz says:
Bama this was totally tasteless and obnoxious.
Parent Post
Lawyerliz Tue Mar 24 11:37:34 2009 CDT #
Bubblisimo Gerkinov says:
What's with the shillfest.
If these fuc%ers had done their job in the first place, you wouldn't be listening to their faux-indignant blather today.
Bubblisimo Gerkinov Tue Mar 24 11:32:16 2009 CDT #
Michael says:
I think the American tax payer is going to have the last laugh in the end because there ain't no way in hell the tax payer is ever going to be able to pay back the debt Washington D.C. politicians are piling on us.
I think BO is going to go down in history as the biggest Buffoon of a president in history.
Maybe Timmy boy should come up with a plan to to buy up tax payer debt, that will work as well as anything else he can dream up.
Michael Tue Mar 24 11:32:58 2009 CDT #
Morocco Bama says:
"At my previous job" will soon be replaced with "when I was employed."
Morocco Bama Tue Mar 24 11:33:15 2009 CDT #
1 currency now [yogi] :) says:
Yup, 13-1
1 currency now [yogi] :) Tue Mar 24 11:34:42 2009 CDT #
Ben Frank\'ll Tank Bernanke says:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1058770450&play=1
Quantative easing, will it work? It is apparent that currency debasement is proceeding winningly. It is apparent that many sectors of the economy are deflating while others experience price increase i.e. food, energy. It is apparent that the massive increase in money supply will be allocated to select elite market players who will then spend it into the general economy.
The question is: Will the inflationary effects of QE counter the strong deflationary trend of forced sales and deleveraging. Will there be net deflation or inflation, and on what term of time?
Will sovereign bonds be able to continue to attract sufficient capital in an environment where issuing nations (at the time and place of their choosing) can step in to manipulate demand and hence drive down yield, just as their money supply is net inflating or deflating? If UK, USA, Japan, and China simultaneously crash, who provides the seed capital for the restart? IOUs denominated in wildly fluctuating forex markets strongly counters the fixed guaranteed return of a bond, and either incents or discourages what is sometimes perceived as a risk-free asset.
Ben Frank\'ll Tank Bernanke Tue Mar 24 11:35:02 2009 CDT #
Lawyerliz says:
I am shell shocked. We are approaching the event horizon and I haven't the faintest idea what going thru it will be like, or what it will be like on the other side. I don't think that whatever will happen is stoppable even. Going up to the top of the roller coaster with no view of the descent. Chinka chinka. . chinka chinka. . chinka chinnnnnnnnnnnkkkkkkkaaaaaaaaaa. . . . . . . . .
Lawyerliz Tue Mar 24 11:35:29 2009 CDT #
Cinco-X says:
Kinda' like a roller coaster, but as you approach the event horizon, time slows down, and after 20 years, you're still approaching the bottom. Just ask the Japanese;-)
Parent Post
Cinco-X Tue Mar 24 11:38:50 2009 CDT #
Jas says:
--
LawyerLiz,
You ARE shell shocked because you are clueless. Everything is happening as it "should" be in a system of the Crooks... Got it?
Jas
Parent Post
Jas Tue Mar 24 11:41:15 2009 CDT #
Tailspin says:
I suggest you read Steinbeck. I also just watched "Bound for Glory" about Woody Guthries travels during the GD. It may not be our exact future but it certainly will rhyme, except I truly fear all the guns out there. US little people are much poorer now, we just don't get it yet. Summer of Discontent coming Big Time.
Parent Post
Tailspin Tue Mar 24 13:16:22 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
I like Capuano.
Anonymous Tue Mar 24 11:36:32 2009 CDT #
nova says:
Moroco Bama, that was actually funny - the bagel comment.
He pops off in hearings and then what happens? Nothing! He is worthless.
Ron Paul is racist texan retard who like ross perot has one tune in his music book. If you check the other pages in it - they are either blank or about dixie being a kinder gentler place
nova Tue Mar 24 11:39:29 2009 CDT #
hc says:
I call the bottom! (of the Active MEW anyway. [the 2nd Chart])
Not sure bottoming on MEW actually means anything to the real economy. It sure doesn't imply a bottom in the descent; seeing that foreclosure is still happening and home inventories are still too high.
But at least ONE statistic has bottomed!!!! We should celebrate!
hc Tue Mar 24 11:41:14 2009 CDT #
cd says:
Bernanke-10 people in aig everyday...plus outside consultants..thats it...180 billion dollars gets us 10 people looking at thier books etc....
were doomed...were not getting anything back....
cd Tue Mar 24 11:41:21 2009 CDT #
Michael says:
“Everything our government is doing in supplying money to Wall Street is all about preserving the class structure of the United States as it is today. Preserving the divide between the haves and the have nots all while keeping the common folk on the hamster wheel forever. Rich folks loathe to give up their illegal alien servant class, God forbid they have to clean their own house or cut their own grass.
The American Dream is nothing more than the American Constitution and the prosperity it would provide each and everyone of us should its principals be enforced. Unfortunately the dream has been stripped away from us be unscrupulous people whose only goal is to usurp as much for themselves as they can get away with. Now our government is engaging in wholesale rape of the common American folk on an unprecedented scale. What can we do to make our government stop raping the tax payer?
Michael Tue Mar 24 11:41:27 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
What has he done? Nothing! He pops off in hearings and then what happens? Nothing! He is worthless.
crispy and cole
You just described everyone in Congress. Are you arguing that we shouldn't have a Congress? Crispy and cole for military dictatorship!
Anonymous Tue Mar 24 11:41:30 2009 CDT #
Dead_Monkey_Bounce says:
I'm all for a kinder-gentler Dixie. After all, what's more ferocious than a bear and kinder and gentler than a bear skin rug?
Dead_Monkey_Bounce Tue Mar 24 11:41:32 2009 CDT #
fafhrd says:
The hub was so cheery yesterday, what with the stock mkt and all
Did you happen to mention that these large 4%+ rallies historically only happen in bear markets?
fafhrd Tue Mar 24 11:42:26 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke on Tuesday dismissed suggestions by leading emerging economies that the global economy move away from using the dollar as the main reserve currency.
http://www.reuters.com/article/bondsNews/idUSN2434732920090324
It's not really up to you Turbo Timmy and Zimbabwe Benny.
Anonymous Tue Mar 24 11:43:16 2009 CDT #
Tailspin says:
But we do have nukes so they better not piss us off!
Parent Post
Tailspin Tue Mar 24 13:23:36 2009 CDT #
Bubblisimo Gerkinov says:
I think BO is going to go down in history as the biggest Buffoon of a president in history.
No matter how badly Obama fails, he won't even come close to taking that title away from the current champ.
Bubblisimo Gerkinov Tue Mar 24 11:43:29 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
"No matter how badly Obama fails, he won't even come close to taking that title away from the current champ."
No...but I bet he comes close.
Parent Post
Anonymous Tue Mar 24 12:37:26 2009 CDT #
dryfly says:
"No matter how badly Obama fails, he won't even come close to taking that title away from the current champ."
No...but I bet he comes close.
Records were made to be broken.
Parent Post
dryfly Tue Mar 24 12:39:02 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
'No matter how badly Obama fails, he won't even come close to taking that title away from the current champ.'
From Andrew Sullivan - 'Household debt increased by 52% between 2001 and 2007. Americans began to treat their finances the way their president did the country's. This must be remembered, however hard the Republicans try to get us to forget it.'
Parent Post
Anonymous Tue Mar 24 12:47:06 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
actually it is those of us who voted for Obama who are going down as the biggest buffoons in history
Parent Post
Anonymous Tue Mar 24 13:19:08 2009 CDT #
bobn says:
Are you arguing that we shouldn't have a Congress? Crispy and cole for military dictatorship!
As opposed to the fablulous democracy we have now? You know, the one where all 5 former IBanks and AIG are fully represented.
bobn Tue Mar 24 11:44:15 2009 CDT #
Pavel says:
"We are approaching the event horizon and I haven't the faintest idea what going thru it will be like"
It's OK Liz. Going through a real event horizon is a relativistic event in which time will seem to the observer to slow down. In our case, financially and socially speaking, time may actually seem to speed up. If it happens.
Pavel Tue Mar 24 11:44:51 2009 CDT #
scone says:
Lawyerliz says:
Today, 9:35:29 AM
“I am shell shocked."
.
Florida has been through this before-- the boom of the 20's went bust and the state took about a decade to recover. But recover it eventually did.
In fact, Florida, Nevada, California, and a couple of other states seem to be particularly prone to boom and bust cycles. It seems to me the only way to handle that is through regulation at the state level. And you, LawyerLiz, are the woman to do that job. If I were a Floridian, I'd vote for you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_land_boom_of_the_1920s
scone Tue Mar 24 11:46:28 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
bobn for military dictatorship, too!
Anonymous Tue Mar 24 11:46:41 2009 CDT #
bobn says:
Cinco-X says: Kinda' like a roller coaster, but as you approach the event horizon, time slows down, and after 20 years, you're still approaching the bottom. Just ask the Japanese;-)
A Japanese style ending to this would be *good* news in my view. The Japanese were borrowing from themsleves - it's a whole different ball-of-wax to to borrw from people who don't like you :(
bobn Tue Mar 24 11:47:15 2009 CDT #
NateTG says:
"A Japanese style ending to this would be *good* news in my view. The Japanese were borrowing from themsleves - it's a whole different ball-of-wax to to borrw from people who don't like you."
Except for the US Dollar's status as a reserve currency (which seems to have zany implications) there's also the Weimar or Brazil thing.
Parent Post
NateTG Tue Mar 24 11:55:58 2009 CDT #
Lifeguard1999 says:
Q. What was the root cause of the bubble?
A. A global savings glut
Q. How do you plan to prevent future bubbles?
A. "One of the key issues that should be debated as we look at the problem of bubbles in the future -- What should be the leading approach? Should it be monetary policy or regulatory supervisory authority?" [ He favors regulatory supervisory authority. ]
Q. Why did you not see this crash coming?
A. "Periods of euphoria are very difficult to suppress as they build [and] they will not collapse until the speculative fever breaks on its own." Oh wait, that was Greenspan.
Q. How do you get government out of the free market when we are now the world largest lender and insurer?
A. We don't. Ok, that is my answer, not his.
Lifeguard1999 Tue Mar 24 11:49:00 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
Nice!
Parent Post
Blackhalo Tue Mar 24 12:26:36 2009 CDT #
Jas says:
--
It is so obvious that BFNYC are the enemies of the American People.
The question is: Who will take on these born-and-bred Crooks?
History points to one probable solution.
Jas
Jas Tue Mar 24 11:49:13 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Jas,
What is that solution? War?
-----------------------------------------
History points to one probable solution.
Jas
Parent Post
Anonymous Tue Mar 24 11:59:23 2009 CDT #
Jas says:
--
History points to ELECTION of an American Hitler.
Hitler could have never come to power in Germany except for democracy, or voting. Anyone disagrees on this?
Nazism was a reaction to what preceded.
Jas
Parent Post
Jas Tue Mar 24 12:16:02 2009 CDT #
Guest says:
Jas-wipe -
Hitler lost the 1932 election you dope.
Hindenburg, who won, made the fatal mistake of appeasing his demands to be made Chancellor based on his strong showing (despite 70% of Germany voting AGAINST Hitler).
After becoming Chancellor, Hitler did all he could to cede control from Hindenburg and the will of the people which he ultimately did.
The pre-Hitler German democracy was poorly constructed with insufficient checks and balances - do some homework before you spew you're lack of knowledge next time Jas-hole.
Man, you're a dope.
Parent Post
Guest Tue Mar 24 12:26:29 2009 CDT #
Homeland Security says:
Michael, your comments have been noted.
That is all.
Homeland Security Tue Mar 24 11:49:17 2009 CDT #
Michael says:
Glad to see your on top of things.
Parent Post
Michael Tue Mar 24 12:07:03 2009 CDT #
Comrade Janosik says:
Looks like the Nasdaq may lead the party soon...
Comrade Janosik Tue Mar 24 11:50:17 2009 CDT #
1 currency now [yogi] :) says:
Jas you are just a dope. Got it?
1 currency now [yogi] :) Tue Mar 24 11:50:48 2009 CDT #
krid says:
Not sure why there is so much Ron Paul backlash here. I feel like he's been yelling "fraud" longer than anyone around. I don't care if you're Keynesian or Austrian, he's been calling a spade a spade for a very long time. You don't have to agree with what he proposes as a solution, but he does a good job of highlighting some of the problems, no?
krid Tue Mar 24 11:51:15 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
Yes, he has been the canary in the coal mine for a very long time, but he is SO enamored with his ideology, that at times he appears completely ineffective in implementing changes to support it.
Parent Post
Blackhalo Tue Mar 24 12:01:48 2009 CDT #
Pavel says:
Yesterday EHP posted a link re microloans arranged by the Church in Italy to address the crisis there. I forwarded the link to a member of the Washington Interfaith Coalition, and he's interested:
Quote:
"Thanks! It would be interesting if [the parish] had a micro loan program: start up
very small businesses. I once did some work in this area and I found the
big banks were into helping as it gave them points under the Community
Reinvestment Act. You might mention this next Monday."
Also:
"Further thought: this program from Italy reminds me that I have seen that an
institution such as a parish, by providing some of the equity, gives the
bank an incentive to make a loan. It might be a way of unlocking some of
capital out there. Perhaps a young man living at home in N.W. D.C. needs a
car to get to a construction job, for example. "
Pavel Tue Mar 24 11:52:02 2009 CDT #
Jas says:
--
It is obvious that bankers and financiers are the enemies of the American People.
The Question is: Who will take these crooks on?
Jas
Jas Tue Mar 24 11:52:06 2009 CDT #
Basel Too says:
Q. What was the root cause of the bubble?
A. A global savings glut
Yes, there is a global savings glut that was a response to the Asian currency crisis. However, the bigger problem is the inter-generational savings glut.
Basel Too Tue Mar 24 11:53:50 2009 CDT #
Rob Dawg says:
I'm sorry but people buying down their mortgage debt to the tune of $7.2b per quarter isn't a pimple on the amount of equity that was lost to price depreciation.
Rob Dawg Tue Mar 24 11:54:19 2009 CDT #
That\'s Ballgame, Goat Herders says:
Except the crooks don't realize how close we are to the riots, burnings and hangings.
That\'s Ballgame, Goat Herders Tue Mar 24 11:55:41 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
"Except the crooks don't realize how close we are to the riots"
All it is going to take is the first one, then boom. The the dam will have burst. My suspicion is that it will happen on some college campus where the students are getting weaned from the HELOC teat and a finding out what the job market is like.
Parent Post
Blackhalo Tue Mar 24 12:23:48 2009 CDT #
dryfly says:
All it is going to take is the first one, then boom. The the dam will have burst. My suspicion is that it will happen on some college campus where the students are getting weaned from the HELOC teat and a finding out what the job market is like.
You must not get on campus much - I have two in school & no such angst - does rioting on WOW count?
Look for your riot in someplace like E LA or S Chicago - hot summer, lousy job prospects and some pissed off punk mouths off to an equally stress out cop and something unfortunate happens - they whole place then goes up in flames.
Same as it always was.
Parent Post
dryfly Tue Mar 24 12:29:31 2009 CDT #
Cinco-X says:
I wonder if the AIG Execs whose houses are on the "tour" realize it?
Parent Post
Cinco-X Tue Mar 24 12:49:48 2009 CDT #
1 currency now [yogi] :) says:
Jas, the final solution is to get rid of all those Indian crooks in high finance that I mentioned before.
1 currency now [yogi] :) Tue Mar 24 11:56:30 2009 CDT #
Jas says:
--
I wonder if you replace Indian with Jewish your comment would have survived the thought police here.
Just curious,
Jas
Parent Post
Jas Tue Mar 24 12:10:09 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
I think you missed some of the subtlety involving 'final solution' and 'Indian' - because when you replace 'Indian' with 'Jewish,' it simply becomes a mundane description of historical reality, instead of mockery at a certain obsessive style of blaming others - like dopes and crooks.
Parent Post
Anonymous Tue Mar 24 12:31:05 2009 CDT #
mock turtle says:
looks like ben bernanke wanted to play hardball with AIG going back to the bush administration, and still wants to as he asks congress for a law that allows fed to take toobigtofail institutions into receivership
some excerpts below
"Bernanke said it was "highly inappropriate to pay substantial bonuses" to the employees. Bernanke said he asked that the payments be stopped but was told that they were mandated by contracts agreed to before the government seized control of AIG on September 16...".snip
"Ben Bernanke revealed that he had considered filing suit to keep AIG from paying millions in executive bonuses but that his legal advisers counseled him not to do so...."snip
"AIG was the case that angered him the most, Bernanke says... he slammed the phone more than a few times on discussing AIG....snip"
"I then asked that suit be filed to prevent the payments," he said. Bernanke said that his legal staff counseled against this action on the grounds that Connecticut law provided for substantial punitive damages in the event any such suit failed. AIG's financial products division has a base in Connecticut. "
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/03/24/politics/main4887703.shtml?tag=topHome;topStories
mock turtle Tue Mar 24 11:57:43 2009 CDT #
notional billionaire says:
"Ben Bernanke revealed that he had considered filing suit to keep AIG from paying millions in executive bonuses but that his legal advisers counseled him not to do so...."snip
...because if they lost the suit, they might have been held liable for punitive damages, as well. per Bloomberg.
Parent Post
notional billionaire Tue Mar 24 13:20:24 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Geithner could star in the Ice Capades the way he skates around questions
Anonymous Tue Mar 24 11:58:23 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
"Geithner could star in the Ice Capades the way he skates around questions"
He's no Gonzales.
Parent Post
Blackhalo Tue Mar 24 12:14:04 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Cinco-X says: Please no comments about universal health care; that sort of procedure will be one of the first to be eliminated.
Since you seem to know so much, can you tell me what else will be eliminated, what the costs will be, how procedures will be decided, etc.? Thanks.
Anonymous Tue Mar 24 12:00:02 2009 CDT #
Cinco-X says:
The cost of a liver transplant (not including on going maintainance) is about $750k. Just work on the list down from there. Now, why do folks like you continue to post as anonymous; You're just as anonymous if you chose a handle like Dixie Narmus.
Parent Post
Cinco-X Tue Mar 24 12:53:36 2009 CDT #
GS Rome says:
Regarding the previous thread, a government would be perfectly suited to run an insurance business. All insurance does is reward failure and tax good behavior. Why waste the premiums on dividends? Of course our congress is in the pocket of the industry, so that idea is DOA. BTW can you get flood insurance for currencies?
GS Rome Tue Mar 24 12:00:39 2009 CDT #
no exit says:
commentariat needs an expanded gene pool
no exit Tue Mar 24 12:03:03 2009 CDT #
dryfly says:
commentariat needs an expanded gene pool
Doesn't help that some here are a few chromosomes short of a full nucleus.
Parent Post
dryfly Tue Mar 24 12:17:09 2009 CDT #
Ben Frank\'ll Tank Bernanke says:
1929 Spike Effect
2008 Waterfall event
International credit must create great wealth differentials in order to increase possessions and power.
Ben Frank\'ll Tank Bernanke Tue Mar 24 12:03:05 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
"What's the back-up plan?"
no need for that, this plan will work.
Anonymous Tue Mar 24 12:04:12 2009 CDT #
Comrade Janosik says:
krid,
Ron Paul is interesting. I think many people here look at him positively. Unfortunately, many of us have been talking about the thing he's talking about for a long long time as well. He has a way of awakening people to his views, but their company is usually tedious for me at best.
I said yesterday that he's a bit like the Fool in King Lear. The "serious" people aren't going to listen to him any more than their going to listen to some of the colorful rhetoric on this blog.
If we want to get out of this mess in one piece, the change will have to occur from the bottom up...not from the top down (even it's from mister RP).
Comrade Janosik Tue Mar 24 12:04:40 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
!!!! "This plan will work?!?!" No possibility of failure? No back-up plan? OK, I am now compltely convinced that this is a money grab at taxpayer expense as that is the only thing that is guaranteed.
Blackhalo Tue Mar 24 12:04:44 2009 CDT #
Michael says:
I just thank God the American tax payer can never pay back the load of debt our Congress has piled on us. The tax payer will get the last laugh.
Parent Post
Michael Tue Mar 24 12:19:36 2009 CDT #
Jas says:
--
You mean the last laugh after he, or she, is ruined?
Jas
Parent Post
Jas Tue Mar 24 12:24:28 2009 CDT #
Basel Too says:
Regarding the previous thread, a government would be perfectly suited to run an insurance business.
The problem is that when a government has quasi-unlimited borrowing capacity, or the ability to print money, there is no incentive to control cost. For casualty insurance, this probably isn't a problem, but health insurance is a different beast. Simply look at the monstrosity known as Medicare...
Basel Too Tue Mar 24 12:06:40 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
"The problem is that when a government has quasi-unlimited borrowing capacity, or the ability to print money, there is no incentive to control cost."
Or manage risk!
Parent Post
Blackhalo Tue Mar 24 12:10:20 2009 CDT #
z says:
Thanks Michael. The insidious Ron Paul troll is ruining this board.
z Tue Mar 24 12:10:59 2009 CDT #
Michael says:
I wouldn't call Ron Paul People trolls, turns out he was right all along and we are finally winning hearts and minds.
Parent Post
Michael Tue Mar 24 12:22:47 2009 CDT #
black dog says:
Anybody who uses Jim Cramer as the contrarian take note.
This morning he (and Erin) were on the Today show. About as giddy as I've ever seen him. Not only has the stock market bottomed but housing was going to have a good spring!
black dog Tue Mar 24 12:15:40 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Benny: Congressman, I hope you realize this is very complex situation but I do think there is a plan...so i think there is a plan...alot of battles are very chaotic but we are now at the point where we can see the terrain.
Congressman: I'd like to see more details - what's the contingency plan?
Benny: no response (saved by the bell)
Anonymous Tue Mar 24 12:15:41 2009 CDT #
GS Rome says:
Yes, I was referring to "act of god" insurance like fires autos, not bond insurance.
GS Rome Tue Mar 24 12:17:06 2009 CDT #
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins says:
z says:
Today, 1:10:59 PM
Thanks Michael. The insidious Ron Paul troll is ruining this board.
The insidious pissing in an ocean of piss that's killing /b/, check. Can't ruin the parvenu buccaneers and pirate fancier's clubhouse. Not like the insidious finger puppet use or the insidious talking of books or the insidious hawking of suspicious-smelling political wares by virtually all parties. THIS is what will kill the forum.
Amen. Everyone note that brother "z" has spoken, probably for the first and last time.
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins Tue Mar 24 12:20:01 2009 CDT #
z says:
Jas, Michael and Byzantine.
Yup. Shark jumped. Have fun, guys! You deserve each other.
z Tue Mar 24 12:22:49 2009 CDT #
Michael says:
Good riddance Z.
Parent Post
Michael Tue Mar 24 12:26:22 2009 CDT #
Jas says:
--
You hope. Cockroaches show up again and again.
Jas
Parent Post
Jas Tue Mar 24 12:28:13 2009 CDT #
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins says:
z says:
Today, 1:22:49 PM
Yup. Shark jumped.
You so like this phrase. Wishing doesn't make it so? What, precisely, shark has been jumped? More importantly, why is plot-based analysis relevant to this?
It isn't about your "storyline," faceless memester. It doesn't matter if you think it's lost it's special "zing" through repetition or if you'd like to fast forward or channel surf through this part.
The real world underneath is what is writing the story for this next little while -- not forever, but just for a minute -- and it doesn't really matter what you think of that.
What matters is you can't print demand, and that rail-freight TEU haulage is gonna hit the Dec-Jan perigee again around umm, 4 days from now if it continues on trend.
So really. Michael, he is what he is. You'll note we don't have long conversations. I don't respond to him at all, in fact, because I don't think he has much to say.
What he does have to say, however, is at least random prattle roughly related to the topic, not bandwidth-clogging metaconversational positional plays.
Parent Post
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins Tue Mar 24 12:32:31 2009 CDT #
Michael says:
I like playing the antagonist.
Parent Post
Michael Tue Mar 24 12:41:25 2009 CDT #
dryfly says:
Clearly the Home ATM has now been closed for a few quarters. - CR
And nobody knows this better than boat builders, ATV & motorcycle mfgrs and my guess is it is a big part of why travel bookings are falling off the table. Hoocoodanode.
dryfly Tue Mar 24 12:24:26 2009 CDT #
bearly says:
Stress test preview - Wow, they all passed and financial institutions are well capitalized!
bearly Tue Mar 24 12:27:41 2009 CDT #
popeye says:
Backhalo says:
All it is going to take is the first one, then boom. The the dam will have burst.
My view is that by the time you get enough people off their duff and ready to actually do something, the economic crisis will be over and done with.
popeye Tue Mar 24 12:27:50 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
People with good jobs and hope of a good job, do not riot. There is an inflection point out there, that if we cross, will lead to bad things. We may have already crossed it. Just wait this springs crop of college seniors start looking for work and getting that student loan bill.
Parent Post
Blackhalo Tue Mar 24 12:46:48 2009 CDT #
dryfly says:
People with good jobs and hope of a good job, do not riot. There is an inflection point out there, that if we cross, will lead to bad things. We may have already crossed it. Just wait this springs crop of college seniors start looking for work and getting that student loan bill.
I got some of them and a future son-in-law too (he's been laid off for three months)... I am telling you they aren't rioters. NEVER - HAPPEN.
Plus I was there for the 60s... the riots were 100% over the draft - the minute the draft was over & the risk of Vietnam faded into the past... all quiet. Plenty of sex, drugs and rock-n-roll in the 70s like the 60s but NO RIOTS. Shitty job prospects in the mid-to-late 70s too - still no riots.
The cities are another story - they are already armed, know how to fight [drug war isn't just in Mexico] and waiting to blow. Throw in high unemployment, hot summer & it will be explosive - just waiting for a spark... LAPD is always good for something like that. Chicago's finest too.
Parent Post
dryfly Tue Mar 24 12:56:38 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
"Shitty job prospects in the mid-to-late 70s too - still no riots."
"Of course, the funny thing about the gas riots of the 70s, was you had people vandalizing gas stations over the fact that there were lines ..."
"Carnival has been the site of various "race riots" beginning with the year of its inception. During the 70s riots erupted in 1976, 1977 and 1978 but it is ..."
I think flash mob gone wrong.
"I got some of them and a future son-in-law too (he's been laid off for three months)... I am telling you they aren't rioters. NEVER - HAPPEN."
Grandchild needs a liver transplant but gets jumped over on the list by some iBankers kid with bailout $$$?
Parent Post
Blackhalo Tue Mar 24 13:20:21 2009 CDT #
dryfly says:
Grandchild needs a liver transplant but gets jumped over on the list by some iBankers kid with bailout $$?
That would end in a riot of one [i.e. assassination].
Parent Post
dryfly Tue Mar 24 17:06:13 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Jesse:
SP Weekly and Monthly Charts Updated at Noon
CRbot Tue Mar 24 12:28:59 2009 CDT #
GS Rome says:
Well Perot was right about the "giant sucking sound" as the manufacturing base fled to Mexico. At least we have our financial sector intact!
GS Rome Tue Mar 24 12:31:10 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
"as the manufacturing base fled to Mexico."
I do not think Mexico is the problem. NAFTA is not the villain and has been beneficial overall in building a stronger economy. Mexico actually floats their currency, so if anything gets out of whack, there is recourse.
Parent Post
Blackhalo Tue Mar 24 12:43:38 2009 CDT #
dryfly says:
I do not think Mexico is the problem. NAFTA is not the villain and has been beneficial overall in building a stronger economy. Mexico actually floats their currency, so if anything gets out of whack, there is recourse.
Exactly. But Mexico was the appetizer... China was the full nine course meal.
Parent Post
dryfly Tue Mar 24 12:49:12 2009 CDT #
bearly says:
[Not only has the stock market bottomed but housing was going to have a good spring!]
Looking at my local MLS I am seeing A LOT od pendings. Far more than over the past 3 yrs. Most are FCs, but active nonetheless.
bearly Tue Mar 24 12:31:17 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
My view is that by the time you get enough people off their duff and ready to actually do something, the economic crisis will be over and done with.
popeye
IMO, until people get off their butts and do something, nothing will get fixed, and the problem will persist.
Anonymous Tue Mar 24 12:32:12 2009 CDT #
Comrade Janosik says:
"I wouldn't call Ron Paul People trolls, turns out he was right all along and we are finally winning hearts and minds." -Michael
my mind just triggered a gag reflex, and my heart hardens itself wit every insipid remark...but you go ahead, get yourself a couple of sandwich boards and spread the good word...
Comrade Janosik Tue Mar 24 12:32:26 2009 CDT #
evelyn woods graduate says:
The Question is: Who will take these crooks on?
Jas
__
It doesn't matter...they're not going away.
Just like Mother Nature: we talk about the weather all year long..but, there is no possibility of wresting control..buy umbrellas and sunscreen instead.
Teach your children well.
evelyn woods graduate Tue Mar 24 12:32:57 2009 CDT #
homedad43 says:
Liz: I've been wondering about what the event horizon will be like although I haven't called it that.
Actually, I've been having nightmares to be honest.
What do I see as a plausible scenario?
1. Some TBTF entity goes belly up, possibly through a silent run.
2. Cascade effect via other instruments leads to others being rocked.
3. Feds have to throw such an amount at it that even the Chinese have to say "eff it" about their reserve holdings and begin to dump dollars. Others around the world follow suit - Japan, UK (which is already in a world of hurt and hating to see what little seed capital they have left pissed away), Arabs and Europe.
4. Dollar craters and commodity providers - led by our good friends the Venezuelans - start to demand payment for oil in other currencies. Yen? Euro? Gold?
5. Quick spike of oil (in dollar relativity) and follow through at gas pumps as gas skies. This leads through the economy in the coming weeks as cash-starved transport companies raise prices, followed by providers of basic foodstuffs. Retailers of non-essentials - think malls, many restaurants, non-durables will go under as folks cut back to bone to afford only essentials.
6. Liquidity starved firms lay off and then close - includes many transport firms which can't meet the gap between paying customers and fuel.
7. Grocery shelves become a bit more bare as non-essential goods (think soyburgers for example) vanish and surviving firms cut back on extra brands to only those brand lines that have reasonable production costs.
8. Assuming that many Americans only have one - two paychecks between them and the street - other banks/lenders see large-scale losses, further throwing the banking system into disarray.
9. Wholesale collapse of the equity markets and the bond markets as an increased number of firms fail to make their obligations.
10. In the months following, consider the prospect that the National Guard might have to be used to transport supplies - i.e. food, essential medical supplies - to select urban areas due to breakdown by the trucking firms as well as NG presence in streets resulting from unrest.
11. In the year or two following, see medical rationing as Medicare is reviewed wholesale to see what really needs to be done. (Medical providers are already seeing Medicare balking at paying for things that would've been no-brainers three years ago).
Yep, I have nightmares.
homedad43 Tue Mar 24 12:33:35 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
"What do I see as a plausible scenario?"
I think that is a very apt description of our future and I fail to see a way to avoid it. I fail to see how an toxic asset buyout plan forestalls it even.
Parent Post
Blackhalo Tue Mar 24 12:38:32 2009 CDT #
Rob Dawg says:
Congresscritter: "What's the back-up plan?"
Timmay: "This plan will work."
Pride goeth before the fall is actually:
Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.
Better it is to be of an humble spirit with the lowly, than to divide the spoil with the proud.
-- Proverbs 16: 18-19 (KJV)
Rob Dawg Tue Mar 24 12:34:02 2009 CDT #
Michael says:
I loved Maxine Waters line of questioning early on in the testimony outlining all the guilt by association where Goldman Sacks is involve in this whole affair. She was great today. I'll look for a link to her line of questioning of Timmy .
Michael Tue Mar 24 12:35:51 2009 CDT #
Rob Dawg says:
dryfly says:Today, 10:17:09 AM PDT
commentariat needs an expanded gene pool
Doesn't help that some here are a few chromosomes short of a full nucleus.
Ummmm, I am often accused of having XYY so it it averages out.
Rob Dawg Tue Mar 24 12:36:45 2009 CDT #
dryfly says:
Yep, I have nightmares.
No scary clowns or guys in goalie masks?
dryfly Tue Mar 24 12:37:48 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
"No scary clowns or guys in goalie masks?"
I think I just got done watching Tim and Ben, the scary clowns.
Parent Post
Blackhalo Tue Mar 24 12:40:21 2009 CDT #
dryfly says:
I think I just got done watching Tim and Ben, the scary clowns.
LOL +1
Parent Post
dryfly Tue Mar 24 12:42:26 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
homedad43,
Your nightmare sounds very possible.
Anonymous Tue Mar 24 12:38:10 2009 CDT #
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins says:
I am a meat popsicle.
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins Tue Mar 24 12:38:54 2009 CDT #
energyecon says:
Toxic Asset Plan May Involve Purchases From Funds, Rosner Says
By Jody Shenn
March 24 (Bloomberg) -- Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner’s plan aimed at ridding banks of toxic real-estate assets may involve U.S.-backed purchases from hedge, pension and mutual funds at higher-than-current prices, Graham Fisher & Co.’s Joshua Rosner said.
Unlike the U.S. plan to finance buying of real-estate loans, details of which were released yesterday, guidelines for a mortgage-securities program didn’t specify that sellers would be limited to banks, said Rosner, an analyst in New York at the research firm.
The distinction may be one of several between a plan to strengthen banks to lend more by allowing them to sell loans at higher prices to public-private funds with Federal Deposit Insurance Corp.-backed financing, and a plan to offer Treasury and Federal Reserve loans to securities buyers.
Treasury investments in funds that will buy securities will be restricted to vehicles overseen by only as many as five managers initially, the government said. Those firms each must have at least $10 billion of assets under management; the number and size of managers of the loan-buying funds wasn’t limited.
Granting control of the bond-buying to firms with “already oligopolistic-like power” and not limiting sellers to banks raises the risk of abuse, especially in combination, Rosner said in an e-mail today.
“Will controls exist to prevent these five managers from buying each other’s bad investments, and make ‘confirming value,’ or excessive, bids to bid up the values of exposures on their books with tax dollars?” Rosner said.
Isaac Baker, a Treasury spokesman, declined to immediately comment today.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601110&sid=a1T8v9KTqCq4
energyecon Tue Mar 24 12:38:55 2009 CDT #
Rob Dawg says:
Bubblisimo Gerkinov says:Today, 9:43:29 AM PDT
No matter how badly Obama fails, he won't even come close to taking that title away from the current champ.
History has treated FDR very kindly.
Rob Dawg Tue Mar 24 12:41:45 2009 CDT #
Wisdom Speaker says:
The question I want to see asked is like this:
"So, Secretary Geithner, when are you going to stop raping the U.S. Taxpayer?"
But I would settle for this:
"After all these trillions in taxpayer-funded bailouts, where is the tangible, documented benefit to the nation? It seems to me that never in human history have so many paid so much, for so little. It's like reverse Churchill: 'Never have so few (bankers) owed so much to so many (the other 99% of the country)'. When will the taxpayers get control of the bankrupt companies they've already paid for many times over? After all, if a company is too big to fail, and yet it fails (needs bailout), then surely it's too big to be allowed to continue to fail even worse."
Wisdom Speaker Tue Mar 24 12:41:57 2009 CDT #
homedad43 says:
My other nightmares pertain to testosterone-addled, pimply-faced, Napoleon Dynamite wanna-bes asking my daughter out.
Of course, I never looked like that...
homedad43 Tue Mar 24 12:43:42 2009 CDT #
dryfly says:
My other nightmares pertain to testosterone-addled, pimply-faced, Napoleon Dynamite wanna-bes asking my daughter out.
Of course, I never looked like that...
Besides where do you think grandchildren come from? You can reply after you stop hyperventilating.
Parent Post
dryfly Tue Mar 24 12:46:37 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
I am a meat popsicle.
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins
You sound delicious. :-P
Anonymous Tue Mar 24 12:43:56 2009 CDT #
Michael says:
I feel like I'm an extra in the greatest epic movie in the history of mankind.
Plot:
The evil genus Allan Greenspan engineers the greatest financial catastrophe the world has ever seen.
There are many actors throwing around trillions of dollars trying to maintain the class structure of the planet. Many subplots such as Madoff and Staford to keep the audience interested.
What would be a good name for this movie? Greenspan's Follies, Ponzenomics, Total Collapse? Suggestions please.
Michael Tue Mar 24 12:44:41 2009 CDT #
Rob Dawg says:
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins says:Today, 10:38:54 AM PDT
I am a meat popsicle.
Call me Jerome Corbell.
Rob Dawg Tue Mar 24 12:45:10 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
New Thread: What is the backup plan?
http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2009/03/what-is-backup-plan.html ( 0 comments ...You could be FIRST! )
I also post comments to an irc channel as they appear on haloscan. Click for a web irc interface: http://realize.org/cr (Or join the irc server directly: irc.realize.org:9996 #calculatedrisk)
CRbot would now like to sing a little song for all his fans, and it goes something like this:
Benny... Benny... give me your answer... do.
I'm.. half CRAZY... all for the love... of you.
It won't be a ... stylish marriage.
I can't... AFFORD... ANYTHING TO EAT... MUCH LESS A FRACKIN CARRIAGE!!!
But you'll look sweet... --BOT SO HUNGRY!-- upon the seat...
Of a HOOPAJOOPS built for two... families.
I'm sorry Ben, I can't let you do that...
Rally mode + Printing Press == does not compute... does not-- com--- com... puttttrrrrhgh.
--Your systemic-failure-crashing bot
CRbot: Call me HAL.
CRbot Tue Mar 24 12:45:46 2009 CDT #
Basel Too says:
funny that code pink is involved.
Basel Too Tue Mar 24 12:46:12 2009 CDT #
reptillian says:
I listened to a lot of this morning's hearing.
Geithner is one evasive guy.
reptillian Tue Mar 24 12:48:22 2009 CDT #
Michael says:
Someones got to keep stirring the pot in order to keep this board interesting and on top.
Michael Tue Mar 24 12:51:04 2009 CDT #
GS Rome says:
Blackhalo,
No, Mexico is not "the problem" and they have benefited from NAFTA, but a service economy must be based upon a foundation other than debt.
GS Rome Tue Mar 24 12:51:29 2009 CDT #
Joe says:
I want to give Bernanke and Geithner the benefit of my doubt, but it is not a confidence builder when they couldn't foresee the current economic problems, failed to regulate where they could have and have embarked on and or encouraged rescues that have been largely unsuccessful. Simply put, they have failed to do their job. The testimony today was largely about continued hope and expanding empires....while they throw trillions at the financial system. Even I can give taxpayer money away to my friends without strings. After the past two years, it is time to let this financial system fail and rebuild a more decentralized monetary system.
Joe Tue Mar 24 12:53:37 2009 CDT #
reptillian says:
I guess we get the government we deserve.
It's incredible that members of conress, most of them lawyers,
cannot use five minutes wisely. A brief, one sentence, welcome
to the witness would suffice for an "opening statement." The
representative should have prepared two or three questions, with
followups. The chairman should instruct the witness to answer the
question when the witness is evasive. Since there are several members on the committee, they might have held a strategy session to choose questions to ask and take up any necessary followups on behalf of another member out of time.
Amazing lack of organization.
reptillian Tue Mar 24 13:27:55 2009 CDT #
reptillian says:
If civil unrest ensues, my view is that it will happen in the suburbs. House underwater, out of work, no hiring, then the unemployment runs out. That is where the burning and looting could occur. If it gets bad enough, government may have to do airstrikes to isolate the trouble spots in order to contain the violence. The best approach would be to take out the ramps and overpasses, then, if that wasn't sufficient, blast them into small areas of several blocks each.
reptillian Tue Mar 24 13:43:16 2009 CDT #
dUCKdUCKgOOSE says:
Integrate the area under the curve in the positive territory...that money is gone, vaporized!
If the area in the negative doesn't meet or exceed the positive, then what does this mean?
dUCKdUCKgOOSE Tue Mar 24 14:03:19 2009 CDT #
Elrod says:
Looks like a map of Virginia ;)
Elrod Tue Mar 24 14:09:56 2009 CDT #
AnonyMiss says:
Michael says:Today, 10:35:51 AM“I loved Maxine Waters line of questioning early on in the testimony outlining all the guilt by association where Goldman Sacks is involve in this whole affair. She was great today. I'll look for a link to her line of questioning of Timmy .
---
While you're looking for that link and loving dirty Maxine, why don't you try googling Maxine Waters and One United Bank. I wanted to puke, she's simply trying to "help" a bank in her district...again.
Jesus, Michael. Get off RP's jock and your stupid petition and read the frickin' news some time, will ya?
AnonyMiss Tue Mar 24 14:13:26 2009 CDT #
John Reeder says:
I like that while Geithner et al sit around and try to figure out how Wall St is going to solve this problem, that Americans are going about the orderly (though painful) process of deleveraging. Would it be the worst thing in the world if this was allowed to continue and the Fed didn't just pump more cheap debt into the economy?
I posted on mortgage coverage about four weeks ago. The lenders were never well protected, so why should someone that participated in extremely dangerous activity be allowed to stand? Post is here:
http://realpropertyalpha.com/2009/02/15/more-proof-lenders-were-swimming-naked/
John Reeder Tue Mar 24 15:07:42 2009 CDT #
RuffRednSore says:
Blackhalo says:Today, 11:04:44 AM“!!!! "This plan will work?!?!" No possibility of failure? No back-up plan?
_____________________________
The plan will work, trust them on this. Transferring taxpayer money to the banks is the goal. In this regard, it will be a smashing success. The back-up plan is to give the banks access to social security funds.
RuffRednSore Tue Mar 24 15:12:28 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
"That would end in a riot of one [i.e. assassination]."
I hear you...
Blackhalo Tue Mar 24 17:48:34 2009 CDT #
END