Comments for Citi Forecloses on General Growth Mall
OptimumWestSucks says:
Well this is a big fish!
OptimumWestSucks Fri Mar 20 14:41:44 2009 CDT #
Spunkmeyer says:
So good to see Citi behaving so responsibly... :-P
Spunkmeyer Fri Mar 20 14:42:13 2009 CDT #
Mannwich says:
Can I haz my mall?
Mannwich Fri Mar 20 14:42:21 2009 CDT #
Rob Dawg says:
Wait until mark to market in the receiver's hands sets the new asset comps for the likes of Simon Property Group.
Rob Dawg Fri Mar 20 14:42:22 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
This comment thread has been HALO-IZED by CRbot.
http://realize.org/cr/halokit.php?halourl=http://www.haloscan.com/comments/calculatedrisk/6978657414942547856
CRbot Fri Mar 20 14:42:26 2009 CDT #
Rob Dawg says:
"You've got mall!"
Rob Dawg Fri Mar 20 14:42:52 2009 CDT #
goadam says:
you win.
Parent Post
goadam Fri Mar 20 14:56:01 2009 CDT #
wc says:
So General Growth is gone. Next, all eyes on Simon Property.
How many REITS will go under in the next 24 months?
wc Fri Mar 20 14:45:35 2009 CDT #
ille.vir says:
zerohedge had a nice graphic post about relative risks of the REITs.
http://zerohedge.blogspot.com/2009/03/reit-graphic-representation-of-risk.html
Parent Post
ille.vir Fri Mar 20 15:01:16 2009 CDT #
Dust Bowling for Dollars says:
In Houston - Willowbrook Mall (early 80s and suffering demographic shift), Woodlands Mall (new and very nice), Baybrook Mall (1978 but holding up). Interesting to see what happens if GGP goes into receivership.
Dust Bowling for Dollars Fri Mar 20 14:45:37 2009 CDT #
Samdog says:
Think of the traffic "Dead Mall" site's gonna pull!
Samdog Fri Mar 20 14:45:38 2009 CDT #
Cinco-X says:
Maybe they could turn them into death-match levels for paint-ballers ;)
Parent Post
Cinco-X Fri Mar 20 14:56:28 2009 CDT #
iceman says:
Simon just issued a ton of stock today. Good luck, secondary buyers, you're going to need it.
iceman Fri Mar 20 14:46:39 2009 CDT #
Reluctant Serf Ken says:
is there even a point to bankruptcy? What assets do they have that aren't mortgaged? 10 office chairs and a fax machine?
Reluctant Serf Ken Fri Mar 20 14:46:49 2009 CDT #
Cinco-X says:
Location, mall traffic, cash flow from stores.....
Parent Post
Cinco-X Fri Mar 20 15:02:19 2009 CDT #
Lifeguard1999 says:
"A possible General Growth Properties bankruptcy could happen in the next few ..." minutes? After all, it is Friday!
Lifeguard1999 Fri Mar 20 14:47:17 2009 CDT #
Mr. T. says:
This is really awesome news.
Mr. T. Fri Mar 20 14:47:20 2009 CDT #
Guest says:
wait! We need a bailout here. Think of all the vital economic productivity that is lost when a mall's ownership changes hands! GGP needs to get their congressman on the line!
Guest Fri Mar 20 14:48:44 2009 CDT #
Wisdom Speaker says:
And Citi's mortgage goes from mark-to-fantasy, to mark-to-reality?
Wisdom Speaker Fri Mar 20 14:49:34 2009 CDT #
Lifeguard1999 says:
"CBO now anticipates that the deficit will total almost $1.7 trillion (11.9 percent of gross domestic product, or GDP) this year and $1.1 trillion (7.9 percent of GDP) next year, the largest deficits as a share of GDP since 1945"
http://www.cbo.gov/
Lifeguard1999 Fri Mar 20 14:51:38 2009 CDT #
Samdog says:
"get"
Samdog Fri Mar 20 14:51:47 2009 CDT #
JimPortlandOR says:
Timber!
For some irrational reason, I'm quite happy to see GGP being axed and chainsawed down. :-[
Maybe my reaction is partly based on the mauling of America, with Mal(l) functions that result in the cookie cuttering of the country.
Local and not mass-produced is good.
JimPortlandOR Fri Mar 20 14:51:58 2009 CDT #
Mr. T. says:
Citigroup really has some nerve foreclosing on anybody.
Mr. T. Fri Mar 20 14:52:09 2009 CDT #
nova says:
I added more to my CR inspired story of life after the economy falls apart. (American Apocalypse)
excerpt
We three looked at each other. I didn’t want to say anything. At least not first. I knew we could feed ourselves and we had enough to do that for at least a month. Add in the extra mouths and we were out of food in less than a week. Plus some of those kids needed kid food. Night was the first to speak. She did the logistics, the motel was owned by her family, and she knew more than any of us how many we could feed.
“I will not let babies and children starve while I have food.” She left unspoken whether she was committing us to feed the adults.
Plus OtisHertz has a new post up.
site://afterthecrash.net
We three looked at each other. I didn’t want to say anything. At least not first. I knew we could feed ourselves and we had enough to do that for at least a month. Add in the extra mouths and we were out of food in less than a week. Plus some of those kids needed kid food. Night was the first to speak. She did the logistics, the motel was owned by her family, and she knew more than any of us how many we could feed.
“I will not let babies and children starve while I have food.” She left unspoken whether she was committing us to feed the adults.
nova Fri Mar 20 14:53:57 2009 CDT #
Gary says:
Is this the same Citibank that forclosed on Tim Geithner's testicles?
Gary Fri Mar 20 14:54:34 2009 CDT #
ille.vir says:
GGP failure would be the nail in the coffin. The one thing even news-ignorant shoppers will notice is when the mall they shop at has been foreclosed upon. This will really hit home for many people.
ille.vir Fri Mar 20 14:55:01 2009 CDT #
Cinco-X says:
I doubt Citi, or anyone else for that matter would force them to close their doors. THAT would be the nail in the coffin. If they can keep 80-90% of their stores open and generate some cash flow, it's MUCH better for their creditors than if they slam the door shut.
Parent Post
Cinco-X Fri Mar 20 15:00:35 2009 CDT #
ille.vir says:
I think it'll be all over the local news every time it happens though, like "x local mall taken over by y bank" kind of headline. In fact, we've seen it already. This will drive home how bad the recession is for many. I think the places people shop have a meaning for people beyond just its functional worth.
Parent Post
ille.vir Fri Mar 20 15:07:16 2009 CDT #
Cinco-X says:
I doubt there are many out there that haven't realized how big a deal this is. Most are either out of work or praying they don't end up out of work. Even the bonus takers at AIG are "literally" fear for their lives, and yes, I used it correctly. These folks have "literally" gotten death threats, and I'm sure than a number of them really deserved them.
Parent Post
Cinco-X Fri Mar 20 15:16:47 2009 CDT #
ille.vir says:
Think about how many people are calling for a "second-half recovery." A lot of people still do not get it, although more and more are coming around.
Parent Post
ille.vir Fri Mar 20 15:25:22 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
so Citi wanted a mall? Just what do they plan to do with it? The value of it will be tanking not because of the foreclosure but because of the lack of retail sales and lessors. this is just part of the pull back. retail will be muchy smaller in a few years( ok months....weeks....days??)
Anonymous Fri Mar 20 14:55:07 2009 CDT #
cd says:
anybody going to buy some srs right now...
cd Fri Mar 20 14:55:08 2009 CDT #
OptimumWestSucks says:
Dollars - Those sound like tree museums.
OptimumWestSucks Fri Mar 20 14:55:23 2009 CDT #
All Fall Down says:
Finally! A plan to fix the housing mess - give local govs. money to tear them down. http://www.mercedsunstar.com/167/story/747213.html
All Fall Down Fri Mar 20 14:57:06 2009 CDT #
OptimumWestSucks says:
Note to self: Check to see if CRE can be included in TARP at Mark to Fantasy
OptimumWestSucks Fri Mar 20 14:57:26 2009 CDT #
OptimumWestSucks says:
forclosed = frooze lol
OptimumWestSucks Fri Mar 20 14:58:03 2009 CDT #
debtinator says:
Reit the writing on the wall.
debtinator Fri Mar 20 14:58:54 2009 CDT #
Broker says:
Les fleurs du mal(l).
Broker Fri Mar 20 14:59:09 2009 CDT #
poic.v20 says:
"Note to self: Check to see if CRE can be included in TARP at Mark to Fantasy"
I assume that is a rhetorical question.
poic.v20 Fri Mar 20 14:59:30 2009 CDT #
Comrade alexei mikhailovich says:
This is triage for GGP, Simon will do the same as well; any marginal property will be returned to lender so they can service debt on cashflowing properties.
Comrade alexei mikhailovich Fri Mar 20 15:00:58 2009 CDT #
Cinco-X says:
Better get those Simons gift cards spent THIS weekend;-)
Parent Post
Cinco-X Fri Mar 20 15:19:30 2009 CDT #
jauus says:
Who shops at "malls" anymore?
jauus Fri Mar 20 15:01:18 2009 CDT #
Cinco-X says:
Teenagers-
Parent Post
Cinco-X Fri Mar 20 15:03:49 2009 CDT #
Samdog says:
I wonder if Citi can run a mall, since we know they can't run a bank ....
Samdog Fri Mar 20 15:02:47 2009 CDT #
fallonPDX says:
Citi will just flip the mall. C is out looking for cash and pressing hard. They know now they are deemed to big to fail and are going to play hardball with everyone. Including the taxpayers.
Parent Post
fallonPDX Fri Mar 20 15:18:16 2009 CDT #
nova says:
Who shops at "malls" anymore?
Most of America.
nova Fri Mar 20 15:03:14 2009 CDT #
dUCKdUCKgOOSE says:
This is what insider trading looks like...
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=AIG#chart1:symbol=aig;range=3m;indicator=volume;charttype=line;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined
dUCKdUCKgOOSE Fri Mar 20 15:05:56 2009 CDT #
de says:
Ah, now you're calling me an insider because I got a bit of that action? LOL :-D
Parent Post
de Fri Mar 20 15:31:03 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
"GGP failure would be the nail in the coffin. The one thing even news-ignorant shoppers will notice is when the mall they shop at has been foreclosed upon. This will really hit home for many people."
Not true, the FDIC won't be standing there Monday morning to calm peoples fears, and the majority of the employees except for store managers won't even have a clue it took place. For the most part these are transparent events to many mall employees and even more so to shoppers.
Somebody will buy them out for dimes on the dollar and collect the rent as usual.
If anything, astute shoppers have already noticed empty stores, and the new owners will be in a better position to lower rent due to a lower cost basis.
Anonymous Fri Mar 20 15:07:17 2009 CDT #
ille.vir says:
The oakwood story is already in the local news. Functionally, this may be a transparent event, but the news that the owner of their local mall has gone down, and that a bank has taken over management will be in the local news. People will talk about it. This will be repeated wherever a GGP mall is seized.
http://www.nola.com/news/index.ssf/2009/03/bank_has_oakwood_center_seized.html
Parent Post
ille.vir Fri Mar 20 15:13:39 2009 CDT #
cd says:
SRS-bought at 55 sold at 68 and bought back at 70.44 for possible gap up monday...seems to had some strength going into close...plus would you rather be long reits or short over the wknd....
cd Fri Mar 20 15:09:44 2009 CDT #
reptillian says:
Maybe Citi needs some stores to loot for its office remodeling project.
reptillian Fri Mar 20 15:11:03 2009 CDT #
Cinco-X says:
A fairly uneventful triple witching hour. Now for BFF-
Cinco-X Fri Mar 20 15:13:20 2009 CDT #
fallonPDX says:
This is a domino effect. Seize one GGP property in foreclosure and all the rest fall down.
fallonPDX Fri Mar 20 15:17:00 2009 CDT #
Dust Bowling for Dollars says:
I had to visit our local GGP mall this last weekend as my better half wanted to cash in her Sephora birthday coupon.
Who shops at malls - Asian and immigrant families, and variegated teenagers. No stereotyping intended here - I observed for quite some time and these groups comprised a minimum of 80% of the population.
Dust Bowling for Dollars Fri Mar 20 15:17:45 2009 CDT #
nova says:
Then the people will go to the mall and see life being carried on as usual. They will be reassured that all is well, or as well as it can be.
nova Fri Mar 20 15:20:00 2009 CDT #
debtinator says:
REO malls.
debtinator Fri Mar 20 15:22:03 2009 CDT #
Dust Bowling for Dollars says:
You can also use malls for filming zombie movies, or massive car chases.
Dust Bowling for Dollars Fri Mar 20 15:22:18 2009 CDT #
Sexy Derivative says:
Citi will just flip the mall. C is out looking for cash and pressing hard. They know now they are deemed to big to fail and are going to play hardball with everyone. Including the taxpayers.
Right. I don't know the mall business, but is this really big deal if they sell it off to another operator? Just asking.
Sexy Derivative Fri Mar 20 15:22:34 2009 CDT #
OptimumWestSucks says:
I wonder if there will be a sign: "Under New Managment". might help sales!
OptimumWestSucks Fri Mar 20 15:22:51 2009 CDT #
fallonPDX says:
Nova,
That is why American's seek out McDonald's when traveling
abroad. A big mac sighting in Germany or Thailand means all is well.
fallonPDX Fri Mar 20 15:23:04 2009 CDT #
nova says:
A big mac sighting in Germany or Thailand means all is well.
Starbucks also gives me that warm fuzzy feeling. Gawd, I love being an American!
nova Fri Mar 20 15:26:12 2009 CDT #
nova says:
I was going to write something about how Malls are esential for teenage employment. Thats wrong. I have noticed that the bannana republic girls are grandmas now.
nova Fri Mar 20 15:27:28 2009 CDT #
poic.v20 says:
"Starbucks also gives me that warm fuzzy feeling. Gawd, I love being an American!"
They put a Starbucks inside the Emperors Palace in Beijing. Pragmatic capitalism didn't go over too well with those in Beijing who actually wanted to keep an iota of history.
poic.v20 Fri Mar 20 15:31:06 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Is this one that little tom freidman wife owns? :)
jo6pac
Anonymous Fri Mar 20 15:49:34 2009 CDT #
Guest says:
back to eating comments .... grrrrr
Guest Fri Mar 20 15:50:48 2009 CDT #
LAS says:
=-O I have nothing intelligent to say; just trying to figure out how these little emoticon things work. Ignore me. 8-) :*
LAS Fri Mar 20 15:59:05 2009 CDT #
kidbuck says:
We're bankrupt?
Bonuses all around!
kidbuck Fri Mar 20 16:00:14 2009 CDT #
azurite says:
Some of us look for Chinese or Indian restaurants if we don't feel up to sampling local cuisine, both often offer inexpensive but still good food. Especially in China, although I'm thinking mostly about places to which Indians or Chinese have immigrated (numerous nations)although, maybe not the nations currently comprising the former Soviet Union? Both the Ukraine & Georgia have their own very good local foods/cuisines) whether you can find it their restaurants, I'm not, unfortunately, enough of a global traveler to know.
azurite Fri Mar 20 16:01:11 2009 CDT #
Slid says:
GGP is half owner (with Simon) of a dying mall in our town. JC Penny left and FEMA took over the area (headquarters for Ike), Dillards just announced it is pulling out. That leaves Macy's (ha!) and a bunch of smaller stores. The neighborhood association is impatiently waiting to have the whole thing bulldozed and re-done. Should be interesting.
Slid Fri Mar 20 16:11:21 2009 CDT #
bruiser says:
When does Citigroup get foreclosed on?
bruiser Fri Mar 20 16:35:44 2009 CDT #
Charles Kiting says:
Excellent!
This sets up my dream scenario. Citi dumps these mall assets onto the government. So government employees can go shopping at the government-owned mall. Just like Pullman. Pullman, the company town ruined first by a bad economy and then by a never-ending series of community activist outsiders exploiting the conditions of the residents for political gain without actually improving the conditions of the community.
Yes, Pullman - the community President Obama was an activist in. (Note I said activist and not resident.)
Charles Kiting Fri Mar 20 16:49:14 2009 CDT #
Tom Stone says:
SPG haas a dying Mall in Santa Rosa Ca,Coddingtown.It is an eerie place to visit.Whole foods built a large,never opened store there which was supposed to be the new Anchor Tenant.You could use the main hallway for a 200 meter indoor range,and the parking lot for go kart racing.
Tom Stone Fri Mar 20 17:18:19 2009 CDT #
splat says:
"A possible General Growth Properties bankruptcy "
It's already a corpse, we're just seeing a little post mortem twitching. Who's going to be crazy enough to stump up the billions needed to keep them drowning ?
Time for a Mall bail out ? ;)
splat Fri Mar 20 17:20:02 2009 CDT #
avl dao says:
The CRE industry (mall guys) and their minions and trade association formally applied to Paulson for a bailout late last year. I downloaded the letter. Don't kno what became of their request...sitting in Timmie's in-box?
avl dao Fri Mar 20 18:15:21 2009 CDT #
That Barton Fink Feeling says:
Sure, it's all general growth until that particular moment...
That Barton Fink Feeling Fri Mar 20 18:25:33 2009 CDT #
END