Comments for Martin Wolf: "Successful bank rescue still far away"
CRbot says:
This comment thread has been HALO-IZED by CRbot.
http://realize.org/cr/halokit.php?halourl=http://www.haloscan.com/comments/calculatedrisk/7293367243342037975
CRbot Wed Mar 25 08:13:36 2009 CDT #
Basel Too says:
this plan will work >:o
Basel Too Wed Mar 25 08:15:09 2009 CDT #
sanjay says:
if one trusted Geithner his whole plan could be the back door to nationalization. Since I don't trust him, I think he has missed one obvious flaw in his plan. Lets stipulated that these private/public funds will over pay for the assets. Once they put a bid on the table how can the banks and more importantly their auditors allow them to carry assets on their books at prices that are higher than even the prices (deemed to be over valuation) offered by the PPP? Whether they agree to sell is irrelevant to the valuation. The banks can scarcely argue that the prices being offered represent "panic bids" since after all the FDIC is bearing 85% of the risk.
sanjay Wed Mar 25 08:16:05 2009 CDT #
Jas says:
--
Geithner wants to help the banking and finance crooks, e.g., PIMCO, to make more money by pushing 93% of the risk to the taxpayers.
He is a reliable agent of the Crooks, a necessary qualification for the job for the past many years. So is his boss. Let us face the reality of the system of the Crooks, by the Crooks, and for the Crooks. Please.
Jas
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Jas Wed Mar 25 08:28:52 2009 CDT #
Cinco-X says:
I guess the plan is as follows:
1) Buy up the crap to free up credit
2) Overheat the economy via monetary inflation
3) Try, at a later date, to sell off the assets previously known as crap at newer inflated prices
4) Start over
Cinco-X Wed Mar 25 08:19:39 2009 CDT #
Tom Stone says:
This is not an impasse.If the Bankers do not like it they can go to work at starbucks.
Tom Stone Wed Mar 25 08:21:45 2009 CDT #
Lazar Kaganovich says:
The report of the US' death is an exaggeration, by a couple of years.
Lazar Kaganovich Wed Mar 25 08:23:20 2009 CDT #
MrM says:
"Lazar Kaganovich" - nice handle
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MrM Wed Mar 25 09:24:23 2009 CDT #
NateTG says:
Considering they've made huge losses, I find myself firmly of the opinion that the banks should be salvaged and scrapped, rather than rescued.
NateTG Wed Mar 25 08:25:18 2009 CDT #
Jas says:
--
I have listened to and read Martin Wolf for years and he has one of the better understandings of the Anglo-American financial system. His last talk on BOOK TV on his latest book was fantastic.
Jas
Jas Wed Mar 25 08:25:23 2009 CDT #
JimPortlandOR says:
Provision of public money to banks is unacceptable to an increasingly enraged public,
So, we are going to pretend that public money isn't being provided under the Geithner plan. Later, we'll get the bill for recapitalizing FDIC when the loans fail without recourse, and everyone will feel better that we didn't just pump money directly into the banks.
See how easy that is. :'(
JimPortlandOR Wed Mar 25 08:25:31 2009 CDT #
Bubblisimo Gerkinov says:
Tom Stone says:Today, 5:21:45 PM
“This is not an impasse.If the Bankers do not like it they can go to work at starbucks.
They'll have to get in line behind the realtors ... and who's going to be buying all those lattes anyways?
Bubblisimo Gerkinov Wed Mar 25 08:25:48 2009 CDT #
Tom Stone says:
The Realtors have more self respect,check out the ads on Craigslist in 'Erotic Services"if you don't believe me...
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Tom Stone Wed Mar 25 08:45:41 2009 CDT #
wally says:
I propose a name change for the Timmy plan:
It should be the PIP - the Posthumous Insurance Plan.
wally Wed Mar 25 08:26:49 2009 CDT #
Jas says:
--
PIP = Pimp Inspired Prostitutes.
We are a nation of money whores, e.g., Crooks can hire the best economists and "experts" to peddle the plans that are meant to help them.
Jas
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Jas Wed Mar 25 08:43:40 2009 CDT #
Sexy Derivative says:
If I understand the plan correctly, the banks pick and choose what mbs to sell then work through them with Treasury. So there will still be hidden assets. Even with leveraging, how much are you going to overpay on assets without knowing what's coming afterwards? Apologies if I'm misunderstanding the process.
Sexy Derivative Wed Mar 25 08:28:10 2009 CDT #
Guest says:
Interesting article in the NY Post about how BofA and Citi, presumed to be the one who need this bailout, are aggressively buying even more Alt-A and Option ARM MBS...
http://www.nypost.com/seven/03252009/business/double_dippers_161157.htm
Guest Wed Mar 25 08:28:17 2009 CDT #
NateTG says:
"..BofA and Citi, presumed to be the one who need this bailout, are aggressively buying even more Alt-A and Option ARM MBS..."
One more way to scam the Geithner plan: Buy at market price, sell at subsidy price.
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NateTG Wed Mar 25 08:30:25 2009 CDT #
That\'s Ballgame, Goat Herders says:
Let's all move to South Dakota
That\'s Ballgame, Goat Herders Wed Mar 25 08:30:42 2009 CDT #
Jas says:
--
"If this is not frightening, I do not know what is."
We are way past frightening; we are numbed to the dangers. We are in the hope mode--let us try anything and hope that it works.
Jas
Jas Wed Mar 25 08:32:05 2009 CDT #
Iconoclast421 says:
When you say "congress is on the warpath", I dont think it is hyperbole. We're so deep in fascism I can see it in the rearview mirror. Half the economy is effectively nationalized. Next comes the brownshirts. Only they will be greenshirts this time.
Iconoclast421 Wed Mar 25 08:32:41 2009 CDT #
Jas says:
--
"Half the economy is effectively nationalized."
Large corps are de facto part of the govt; hence, approx. 70% of the economy has been nationalized.
Geithner (live): "govt must take the risks that the private sector is not willing to"!!!!!!!
Jas
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Jas Wed Mar 25 08:46:22 2009 CDT #
Praedor says:
Nonsense. Half the economy SHOULD be nationalized given the money (tax dollars) spent on it. The problem is that only the cost of support is nationalized, as is the losses. The gains are entirely private. Subsidized billionaires (welfare for the rich) is the situation.
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Praedor Wed Mar 25 08:53:33 2009 CDT #
Sexy Derivative says:
Let's all move to South Dakota
It'd be nice if Canada was south of the US.
Sexy Derivative Wed Mar 25 08:33:20 2009 CDT #
Praedor says:
Not with global warming. South of the US is going to start getting REAL uncomfortable within the next 10 years.
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Praedor Wed Mar 25 08:51:13 2009 CDT #
Jas says:
--
Geithner (live): "We are a strong and resilient nation." He is repeating Obama, who reads what Crooks' agents write for him.
Jas
Jas Wed Mar 25 08:34:24 2009 CDT #
Jas says:
--
Crook Roger Altman of Rubin-Summers gang is interviewing Geithner. Things are as they should be under the reign of the banking and finance Crooks.
Jas
Jas Wed Mar 25 08:36:30 2009 CDT #
citiprank says:
@NateTG.. what a minute.. I thought these things "couldn't be priced".... LOL now you are telling me there is a market price? Hoocouldanoode
citiprank Wed Mar 25 08:38:07 2009 CDT #
NateTG says:
'' @NateTG.. what a minute.. I thought these things "couldn't be priced".... LOL now you are telling me there is a market price? Hoocouldanoode ''
I'm not an authority on this, but I'd be very surprised if there weren't a bunch of more liquid MBS out there with more reasonable bid/ask spreads.
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NateTG Wed Mar 25 08:57:28 2009 CDT #
Tupuli says:
Jas, from what I've seen you're wagering on a deflationary depression. Why won't helicopter Ben avert this scenario? Is it simply the magnitude of the problem that makes re-inflation impossible?
Tupuli Wed Mar 25 08:38:38 2009 CDT #
Phaedrus says:
" ... that makes re-inflation impossible?"
Wait a year or two.
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Phaedrus Wed Mar 25 08:46:04 2009 CDT #
Jas says:
--
In 2006 I predicted that Heli Ben is impotent to fight deflation that would result from debt deflation in the private sector and ASSET DEFLATION NEVER BEFORE WITNESSED.
Jas
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Jas Wed Mar 25 08:51:07 2009 CDT #
Eric says:
WHY CAN'T THE COMMENTS STAY SORTED IN DESCENDING ORDER.....
sheesh.... once again trying to hang out here, once again getting so frustrated I want to throw coffee at the monitor.
Eric Wed Mar 25 08:39:43 2009 CDT #
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins says:
Jas on the warpath!
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins Wed Mar 25 08:39:46 2009 CDT #
Jas says:
--
The war began years ago; I am simply reporting and warning people of the dangers ahead. Banking and finance Crooks had declared war on the American People but no one knew until recently.
Jas
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Jas Wed Mar 25 08:54:35 2009 CDT #
ac says:
Not the reaction you'd hope for with the Fed promising to throw mountains of money at long rates:
http://www.marketwatch.com/tools/quotes/intchart.asp?symb=TyX&intflavor=basic
ac Wed Mar 25 08:39:53 2009 CDT #
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover says:
"Let's all move to South Dakota"
Let's not! It sucks in this part of the country! Horizontal snow with 30 MPH wind!
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover Wed Mar 25 08:40:34 2009 CDT #
Larry G says:
It isn't entirely clear that "the public is enraged." These days, public sentiment is as volatile as the stock market.
Larry G Wed Mar 25 08:42:37 2009 CDT #
marz says:
The President of the United States is "timid?" Barack Obama is the most brazen, in your face, like it or lump it,I dare you, Socialist in memory. He is steadfastly driving the entire country to a government imposed metric that will make a shambles of this country and its economy. Timid my ass!
marz Wed Mar 25 08:43:26 2009 CDT #
sanjay says:
the guy has just signed onto a plan that hands vasts amount of tax payer money to the wealthy- is that your definition of socialism?
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sanjay Wed Mar 25 09:09:07 2009 CDT #
Morocco Bama says:
Is this the way to hell?
Morocco Bama Wed Mar 25 08:43:28 2009 CDT #
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover says:
"Is this the way to hell?"
You mean the 405 fwy?
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover Wed Mar 25 08:45:17 2009 CDT #
citiprank says:
"The President of the United States is "timid?" Barack Obama is the most brazen, in your face, like it or lump it,I dare you, Socialist in memory. He is steadfastly driving the entire country to a government imposed metric that will make a shambles of this country and its economy. Timid my ass!"
Pathetically ignorant nonsense.
You have no idea what the word socialism even means.. ,please go back to high school before you post on the buject again
citiprank Wed Mar 25 08:45:19 2009 CDT #
ac says:
Jas, from what I've seen you're wagering on a deflationary depression. Why won't helicopter Ben avert this scenario?
The more people that believe in the inflationary scenario the more politically difficult it is going to be to pull off without causing capital flight and a dollar implosion.
Also, at some point a brain cell may fire within our government and they'll realize they're destroying their most import source of power: The credibility of the dollar.
Ultimately the bankers run this country and with a completely debased dollar they become powerless.
ac Wed Mar 25 08:45:59 2009 CDT #
Jas says:
--
Well put, ac. Thanks.
Jas
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Jas Wed Mar 25 08:55:43 2009 CDT #
Yalt says:
Ultimately the bankers run this country and with a completely debased dollar they become powerless.
Spot on, ac. Rampant inflation rewards debtors at the expense of creditors and it's the creditors, not the debtors, who control the system. Some attempt at reflation is beneficial to the creditors for the moment, since you can't get as much blood out of a dead patient, but eventually either the creditors lose control, or they decapitate the patient when inflation becomes a real possibility.
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Yalt Wed Mar 25 09:09:39 2009 CDT #
Yancey Ward says:
The big banks are saved by this plan. Wolf is just plain missing the forest for the trees. How can anyone seriously believe that the holders of the worst debt won't use this opportunity to put the losses on the government's balance sheet?
If the holders of the bad assets are precluded from bidding in the auctions in any way, shape, or form, then Wolf is probably right- the plan can't save the big banks. We would have the problem we have always had- the assets are so worthless that any rational investor won't pay enough to save the banks, but I see absolutely no evidence the holders of the debt won't be the primary bidders.
Yancey Ward Wed Mar 25 08:46:34 2009 CDT #
Dead_Monkey_Bounce says:
Durables up: http://www.iii.co.uk/news/?type=afxnews&articleid=7236744&subject=general&action=article
Dead_Monkey_Bounce Wed Mar 25 08:46:42 2009 CDT #
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins says:
And it's party on til the break of dawn in the equities markets. UK gilt auction failure? Who cares, there was a positive number in a press release!
OMG they got Tia Caraerra out of an old age home and they're performing Ballroom Blitz on the floor of the exchange! You can't get more spontaneous than that! Wow, this is amazing, Maria just came, I don't know what to say, back to you Tucker Carlson in Mission Control.
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins Wed Mar 25 08:46:47 2009 CDT #
ATM card and $19 in the bank says:
"while government ownership of recapitalised banks is unacceptable to the still influential bankers."
Geithner's plan is to spend $500B up to $1T. For that amount of money, couldn't the FDIC completely BFF Citi or BAC? I have yet to see these obscure little Georgia banks described as "recapitalised" or even "nationalized." They failed. FDIC lines up a buyer and takes a hit to the agency's reserves. I think Geithner has just made sufficient money available for a really big BFF.
ATM card and $19 in the bank Wed Mar 25 08:46:49 2009 CDT #
Cinco-X says:
Who's going to be able to buy Citi or BAC? These monstrosities need to be broken apart in order to BFF them, and that would be a triggering event for CDS', etc. More structural fixes need to be in place before that happens in order to keep this sucker from going down.
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Cinco-X Wed Mar 25 09:03:08 2009 CDT #
sanjay says:
Geithner's problem is that he wants the existing privately owned banking system making loans. If he simply wanted loans made it would be easy create a bunch of brand new banks -take the private capital along with the Treasury investment plus a line of credit from the FEd and you are in business. ($500bn is the total capital of the four top banks). This has never been about saving the economy or about lending. It is and always has been about saving the legacy banks.
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sanjay Wed Mar 25 09:20:08 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
This as probably been said before, but is anyone of the opinion that the push by Geitner and Bernanke to get the authority to "unwind" bank holding companies and other systemically important entities is perhaps because they are trying to have the ability to use such powers soon with a money center bank?
Anonymous Wed Mar 25 08:47:14 2009 CDT #
Praedor says:
I don't understand...why do these people continue to think that the American people are merely hurting for more loans? Do they HONESTLY believe that all they need to do is get easy credit flowing again and the peeps will happily go out and borrow and spend, borrow and spend some more?
Seriously, who is REALLY desperate for loads of new debt? Sure, a few small to moderate businesses, perhaps even a few biggies (*cough*GM*cough*) would be hot for more debt to keep things limping along for a few months more but beyond that? Where's the demand for more useless googaws? Where's the huge demand for expensive plasma or LCD TVs that requires a hefty loan to buy (or a third or forth home equity loan)? *DONT_KNOW*
Praedor Wed Mar 25 08:47:45 2009 CDT #
Phaedrus says:
" ... why do these people continue to think that the American people are merely hurting for more loans?"
Good question. Obama was touting it last night, the dolt.
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Phaedrus Wed Mar 25 08:53:10 2009 CDT #
Tupuli says:
These days, public sentiment is as volatile as the stock market.
I think that's a matter of sampling (i.e. selective reporting). Frankly, media fixation on AIG bonuses was just setting up a strawman issue. It distracted attention from the real crimes while giving Washington something they could visibly do something about.
I predict double digit unemployment to be the next rallying cry. Even a dope understands he's been had then.
Tupuli Wed Mar 25 08:47:58 2009 CDT #
citiprank says:
Jas, you have it backwards.. the govt is effectively part of large corps....
citiprank Wed Mar 25 08:49:14 2009 CDT #
citiprank says:
@Praedor.. you are right.... throwing money at banks doesn't solve the real problem... jobs and income...
the average income went down over the last 8 years.... even during the stupid bubble
citiprank Wed Mar 25 08:50:47 2009 CDT #
Praedor says:
My wife and I are aberrations, our ONLY debt is our mortgage which is much less than (theoretically) we could have "afforded" and we make extra principal payments all the time. WE aren't in the market for debt. Any and all extra money we get (from the VERY modest middle class tax cut Obama dolled out) will NOT be going into buying gadgets and gizmos to feed the empty economy. I don't even trust the stock market anymore so I wont waste any extra money there either. So, that leaves paying down our mortgage AND only paying for what we NEED and can afford without taking on a loan.
I cannot imagine people in different circumstances (in debt up to their ta-tas) being willing to spend spend spend and borrow borrow borrow. In any case, I believe that at this point, the most effective stimulus would have been bottom-up (for once). Give every American adult earning below (say) $250,000/yr, a $40,000 check. Boom. Credit card debts would have disappeared, mortgages would have been refinanced or back payments made, and most people (save the idiots) would have put themselves into a position to start buying a few things, like maybe even a new car.
The most certain thing is that throwing money at the likes of Hedge Funds and banking CEOs was simply making the money disappear into personal portfolios of a few top criminals, nothing else. >:o
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Praedor Wed Mar 25 09:04:28 2009 CDT #
Cinco-X says:
Do tata's make good flotation devices when you're submerged in debt?
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Cinco-X Wed Mar 25 09:09:38 2009 CDT #
Praedor says:
@Cinco-X
Who care's? They're tatas!
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Praedor Wed Mar 25 09:19:26 2009 CDT #
Pavel says:
Yep, we have no idea what socialism looks like, nor is the President a socialist. However, not being as socialist does not guarantee a good outcome. Or a bad one.
Pavel Wed Mar 25 08:52:37 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Ritholz:
Dear AIG: I Quit !
CRbot Wed Mar 25 08:52:52 2009 CDT #
Black Star Ranch says:
"..BofA and Citi........are aggressively buying even more Alt-A and Option ARM MBS..."
Of course Geithner, doesn't have a provision in this wondrous wise plan to disallow this. Just another way to "game" Geithner's Toxic Refund site.
Black Star Ranch Wed Mar 25 08:53:02 2009 CDT #
Tom Stone says:
After all the hoopla about CL promoting prostitution I decided to take a look and saw two RE Babes and an "Investment Adviser" I am acquainted with.If I had looked at M4M I undoubtedly would have seen more but my stomach hurt from laughing so hard.
Tom Stone Wed Mar 25 08:54:14 2009 CDT #
Pavel says:
I think the most meaningful statistic next up is the unemployment figure for March.
Pavel Wed Mar 25 08:54:50 2009 CDT #
sanjay says:
and you still have belief in the accuracy of the government statistics?
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sanjay Wed Mar 25 09:22:59 2009 CDT #
citiprank says:
@Pavel, totally agree with you.... I make no comment on the outcome.. but I'm quite sick of all the whining about socialism when Obama is nothing more than a center-right politician
http://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2008
citiprank Wed Mar 25 08:55:59 2009 CDT #
grumpyoldvet says:
While I respect Mr Wolf for his views he again pulls out the BS meme...that qualified bankers will exit US banks, threaten the rule of law and on and on....weel Mr Wolf where will these "qualified" bankers go, rule of law, what rule of law, we change the rules all the time especially for the little people...er change the UAW contracts but let's spare the bondholders..... 8-)
grumpyoldvet Wed Mar 25 08:56:14 2009 CDT #
Comrade-Dope jg (jg) says:
Aw, Mr. Wolf has his panties in a wad for nothing. Treasury can just borrow whatever it needs from willing lenders worldwide.
Oh, maybe not:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aCUGyYwEVBdg&refer=home
Comrade-Dope jg (jg) Wed Mar 25 08:56:38 2009 CDT #
Tupuli says:
In 2006 I predicted that Heli Ben is impotent to fight deflation that would result from debt deflation in the private sector and ASSET DEFLATION NEVER BEFORE WITNESSED.
Why impotent? Bernanke's allusion to printing presses does suggest that, in principle, they could create the 10s of trillions required.
So, what's to prevent them from doing so? Is it that the necessary amount would forever debase the dollar. Who would stop Ben from going there?
Tupuli Wed Mar 25 08:57:36 2009 CDT #
black dog says:
Guest @ 9:28
This topic was discussed last fall when Paulson's original plan for TARP was to buy troubled assets. Since only banks are eligible for the bailout they could buy mbs from institutions not eligible for bailout(hedge funds/pension funds/endowments/foreign institutions) at true market price and then sell at inflated price to gov't backed investors and pocket the difference. Hopefully, the plan only allows for purchase of mbs that was sitting on bank's balance sheet for a prior period of time. Anyone know?
black dog Wed Mar 25 08:57:46 2009 CDT #
Pavel says:
Jas writes:
--
"The war began years ago; I am simply reporting and warning people of the dangers ahead. Banking and finance Crooks had declared war on the American People but no one knew until recently. "
The aim of the war is what? If it exists, and there is no aim, then it is not a war, but a raid, a razzia. Or even more simply, a process.
Pavel Wed Mar 25 08:58:37 2009 CDT #
Jas says:
--
PLUNDER!
Jas
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Jas Wed Mar 25 09:09:17 2009 CDT #
Michael says:
Are there any politicians currently receiving campaign contributions from companies receiving Tarp money or any other form of direct tax payer assistance through TARP and other plans? I do not want my tax payer money going to any politician from those companies that received tax payer money.
Maybe Ron Paul could introduce a bill forbidding politicians from receiving campaign contributions from companies receiving tax payer assistance.
Michael Wed Mar 25 09:00:52 2009 CDT #
Praedor says:
The bailout banks ARE giving political donations. The Huffington Post had an article up a few days back with just that headline. Bailout dollars going to bankers and then right back into the coffers of policians and the parties.
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Praedor Wed Mar 25 09:08:01 2009 CDT #
Michael says:
Maybe Ron Paul or some other politician who wants to make a name for themselves could introduce a bill forbidding politicians from receiving campaign contributions from companies receiving tax payer assistance.
This subject needs to be blogged far and wide. We got them assholes in D.C. on this one.
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Michael Wed Mar 25 09:13:26 2009 CDT #
Jas says:
--
We are dealing with a major conflict between the banking and finance Crooks and the American People. Violence has been the ONLY way to resolve major conflicts in the US history from day one. Please read your history.
Jas
Jas Wed Mar 25 09:01:11 2009 CDT #
popeye says:
Breaking it down into steps makes some sense to me.
[1] Prevent a deflationary spiral
[2] Stabilize
[3] Stimulate
[4] Take a bubble bath
I think we are pretty clearly in stage 1. Recovery is something to look for down the road; the possibility of inflation is a long way off.
popeye Wed Mar 25 09:01:30 2009 CDT #
GYSC says:
To all those cheering because the mortgage deduction repeal will only apply to those making over $205,000 try and remember that the good old AMT was only supposed to target the "mega rich" as well. Non indexed for inflation those laughing now may well be crying befroe long.
GYSC Wed Mar 25 09:01:57 2009 CDT #
Praedor says:
That's the other thing that drives me batty. Why the f*ck haven't the assclowns in DC simply amended the AMT with an index for inflation?!
Instead, we get the GOP crying to kill it entirely (so they and their rich buddies can skip on taxes) and the Dems flail around as if it is just sooooooo hard to fix. No, it is EASY to fix: index for inflation. Ta-da! Fixed.
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Praedor Wed Mar 25 09:10:39 2009 CDT #
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover says:
Socialist, Socialism. Try Dictionary.com for their definition and it reflects OB's direction clearly. More government control, more government growth, more taxes, debt to fuel government nanny services, unions. Definitely more government dependency. OB is no where near the center.
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover Wed Mar 25 09:02:43 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
"Socialist, Socialism. Try Dictionary.com for their definition and it reflects OB's direction clearly."
So far O's "direction" has been the complete opposite of the previous Communist administration. W- Fannie, Freddie, AIG: Nationalized. USA is now the worlds largest insurer and lender, and is driving market forces from those industries.
O'- not even health care or a bank yet. Just toxic assets.
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Blackhalo Wed Mar 25 09:08:40 2009 CDT #
Tom Stone says:
What people really want is simple,A living wage,an opportunity to get ahead,a chance fr their children to improve themselves and a sense of belonging to a community.when the playing field is tilted to 90 degrees there is a problem.
Tom Stone Wed Mar 25 09:02:53 2009 CDT #
Pavel says:
"Ultimately the bankers run this country and with a completely debased dollar they become powerless."
The most interesting idea so far in this thread.
Pavel Wed Mar 25 09:03:22 2009 CDT #
Jas says:
--
It is a news to you?
Jas
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Jas Wed Mar 25 09:04:55 2009 CDT #
Cinco-X says:
Inflation and resulting high interest at the end of the seventies was what eventually resulted in the S&L Crisis. Do we really want to add that to our current problems?
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Cinco-X Wed Mar 25 09:07:26 2009 CDT #
notional billionaire says:
Cinco-X - you might find this Wiki article on the causes of the S&L crisis interesting. Causes too numerous to mention here, including de-regulation, fraud, and oddly, if I am reading this correctly, the end of inflation as contributing factors.
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notional billionaire Wed Mar 25 12:14:23 2009 CDT #
notional billionaire says:
Cinco-X - interesting Wiki article <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%26L_crisis"> here</a> on the causes of the S&L crisis, including, oddly, the <i>end</i> of inflation, if I am reading this correctly.
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notional billionaire Wed Mar 25 12:43:52 2009 CDT #
MaryAnn says:
The OGB's are way in over their heads. To do the right thing will not assure you everyone is happy, but to keep on keeping on bailing out, is a diaster that's already happened waiting now on the tsunami.
MaryAnn Wed Mar 25 09:06:21 2009 CDT #
LAM says:
Parking Meter Rates Skyrocket - No More Holidays
They are taking more of your quarters every day. And Chicagoans are in revolt. While some are saying enough by avoiding them, others are taking out their frustrations on the parking meters.
You think eight is enough? How about 12? That's how many quarters buy an hour of parking time in some places now. And its why some people have had enough.
Near Broadway and Addison, meter after meter are broken.
http://cbs2chicago.com/local/Parking.Meter.Revolt.2.967110.html
LAM Wed Mar 25 09:07:08 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Geithner says "quite open" to China's suggestion of moving toward SDR-linked currency system - Reuters
Gold spiked.
Anonymous Wed Mar 25 09:07:56 2009 CDT #
Werner says:
From the previous thread :
Jas (not the Jas Jain, but probably the Jas Nova) says:
All the growth in the US economy since 1997 has been artificial and by increases in household debt levels. We are going to give back all that growth from 1998-2007. Can you spell depression?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Just a quick and dirty estimate :
Jesse the other day stated that Americans in 2007 spend 15% more than they earned. (I did not check that figure, but it seems plausible so for the sake of argument lets accept it.) .
If America would simply stop taking on "additional" credit, that would mean American expenditures would decline by (ca.) 15% .
In macro-economics rhere is this nice concept of an "economic multiplier". Let' make a conservative assumption of 3 as the multiplier for America.
So, if America would simply stop taking on "additional" credit, that expenditure reduction of 15% would, once it rippled through the economy turn into a 45% spending reduction !! (now you are suddenly awake, hihi.)
Ahh..., can you figure out what decline in GDP this translates into ?
Werner Wed Mar 25 09:09:44 2009 CDT #
Pavel says:
"It is a news to you? "
Addressed to me? I was thinking of the possible political effects of a hypothetically debased dollar. That's what I found interesting.
Pavel Wed Mar 25 09:09:50 2009 CDT #
citiprank says:
"Socialist, Socialism. Try Dictionary.com for their definition and it reflects OB's direction clearly. More government control, more government growth, more taxes, debt to fuel government nanny services, unions. Definitely more government dependency. OB is no where near the center."
Try taking high school history.. .you simply have no idea what you are talking about.
Obama is center-right... he would be a right-wing politician in most western representative governments... the US has simply moved radically to the right over the last 30 years.
If you dont see that you need to go back to high school or read a history book
citiprank Wed Mar 25 09:16:09 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
" 45% spending reduction !! (now you are suddenly awake, hihi.)
Ahh..., can you figure out what decline in GDP this translates into ?"
And can you figure out what this does for an exporting nation already in recession?
See Japan for today's example.
See the US for the GD1 example.
Anonymous Wed Mar 25 09:18:34 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Yves:
AIG Aircraft Lease Unit Says Survival at Risk, May Need Government Funding
CRbot Wed Mar 25 09:19:18 2009 CDT #
citiprank says:
Blackhalo.. you make some good points.. but I think bush was much more of a fascist then a communist.. then again when you get that extreme the differences kind of fade away....
citiprank Wed Mar 25 09:19:50 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
Well, to me there is a differece between government doing the bidding of one's corporate masters, and gov BEING our corporate master.
Parent Post
Blackhalo Wed Mar 25 09:23:07 2009 CDT #
Comrade Kristina says:
Thanks citiprank, I tire of seeing the word "Socialism" thrown around like a hand grenade. The current state of affairs doesn't even rhyme with Socialism. We've been an Oligarchy/Kleptocracy for quite some time now, it just amazes me that people just noticed.
Comrade Kristina Wed Mar 25 09:20:26 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
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CRbot Wed Mar 25 09:20:34 2009 CDT #
Pavel says:
"More government control, more government growth, more taxes, debt to fuel government nanny services, unions. Definitely more government dependency. OB is no where near the center."
Except for the mention of unions, those characteristics could describe a polar opposite form of governance. And the unions have been giving back lately. Socialism is when your plumber, your electrician, and the guy in the hot dog cart on the corner work for the government.
Pavel Wed Mar 25 09:20:57 2009 CDT #
Doc at the Radar Station says:
This matters because the government has ruled out the only way of restructuring the banks’ finances that would not cost any extra government money: debt for equity swaps, or a true bankruptcy.
-Martin Wolf
I think a government sponsored bankruptcy and break-up of some big banks will be the ultimate result, IMO. They will have to do something simultaneously with CDS of course to make it work, but that's where we are headed I think. Nationalization isn't going to fly because I think that the government will be too afraid to be perceived as botching the process (warranted or not).
Doc at the Radar Station Wed Mar 25 09:21:15 2009 CDT #
ac says:
Obama is center-right... he would be a right-wing politician in most western representative governments... the US has simply moved radically to the right over the last 30 years.
Haha... the framers of the US constitution thought any income tax was immoral.
Sometimes it's helpful to put the term "radical" in perspective.
ac Wed Mar 25 09:21:47 2009 CDT #
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover says:
Blackhalo,
So more of the same direction makes sense? Bush's socialist Medicare Drugs tells it all.
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover Wed Mar 25 09:24:06 2009 CDT #
Guest says:
BHO is going to destory this country with his, and his administration's incompetency.
Guest Wed Mar 25 09:24:11 2009 CDT #
telepromptr says:
@Praedor re AMT,
Of course the CONcritters could index it if they wanted. They don't want to give up the money.
telepromptr Wed Mar 25 09:25:45 2009 CDT #
Comrade Kristina says:
The banksters have been running this country for quite some time, the fact that the CEO of GS was present at the meeting when they were deciding whether to bail AIG the first time should have made that quite clear to anyone paying attention.
Comrade Kristina Wed Mar 25 09:26:00 2009 CDT #
Blackhalo says:
"CEO of GS was present at the meeting when they were deciding whether to bail AIG the first time should have made that quite clear to anyone paying attention."
Where else would you expect the Treasury Secretary (at the time) to be.... ;)
Parent Post
Blackhalo Wed Mar 25 09:37:25 2009 CDT #
citiprank says:
ac, is there a point to your non-sequiter? Most of the founding fathers were radical liberals (with the exception of that ass-hat hamilton)..... however their ideas about taxation in an agrarian economy that made heavy use of slavery hardly interest me.... different world
I'm not saying that different tax schemes shouldn't be discussed of course.
The problem is our tax system (outside of the income tax) is very regressive and redistributes wealth upward
citiprank Wed Mar 25 09:27:08 2009 CDT #
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover says:
Cityprank. I got the free crappy public ed. That is why my kids went to private school. Most educated are not Smart or have excellent thinking skills. They rely on their merit badge system as a false verification of ability. I rely on performance. Your reality conflicts with mine.
Lobbyi$t Ben Dover Wed Mar 25 09:30:14 2009 CDT #
Guest says:
Pathetically ignorant nonsense.
You have no idea what the word socialism even means.. ,please go back to high school before you post on the buject again
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Citiprick,
Why don't you pull your head out the Obama's ass. Your brain could use the air.
The man's destroying this country.
Guest Wed Mar 25 09:32:11 2009 CDT #
Werner says:
Anonymous says:
“" 45% spending reduction !! (now you are suddenly awake, hihi.)
Ahh..., can you figure out what decline in GDP this translates into ?"
And can you figure out what this does for an exporting nation already in recession?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Much less than for the source of the contraction which is in addition already up to it's eyeballs in debt !
America dies of pneumonia, the rest of the world gets a cold.
Werner Wed Mar 25 09:33:52 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
"Much less than for the source of the contraction which is in addition already up to it's eyeballs in debt !"
Enjoy your ignorance...while you can.
Anonymous Wed Mar 25 09:43:05 2009 CDT #
Martin, the Netherlands says:
@ Comrade Kristina: I think Kleptocracy is an accurate description. The U.S. is a democracy, so it is up to the people of the United States to end it, should they desire so. But it seems to me that they are content with the present state of affairs, as much as I don't understand it.
Martin, the Netherlands Wed Mar 25 10:12:46 2009 CDT #
Martin, the Netherlands says:
By the way, I just read that Sir Fred Goodwin's house has been attacked, see http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/55d8ed64-1922-11de-9d34-0000779fd2ac.html . Does anyone care to comment?
Martin, the Netherlands Wed Mar 25 10:15:33 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
So many things to consider: Politics is the art of the possible.
Sanjay. The destruction of the "legacy banks" is bound to have a masive associated shock wave. Waimea baby, bring out the big guns and wax 'em up!
I think the bho/summers team HAS to try this first. incrementalism. They can do this without congress.
Many arguments agains't are based on idea that political capital/ammo spent is capital/ ammo spent so just skip the play nice and go right to the bankruptcy. I fact that seems to be Wolf's main objection.
Dutchman: The only thing funnier than the mental acuity of the average amerikan is the idealized vision the rest of the world has of that.
Bent Over: Place your hands above your head; step away from the keyboard. I repeat: step away from the keyboard!
Anonymous Wed Mar 25 12:21:42 2009 CDT #
END