Comments for "Government: GM, Chrysler "may well require" Bankruptcy"
Nemo says:
Definitely time to get out of Dodge.
Nemo Mon Mar 30 00:19:59 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
This comment thread has been HALO-IZED by CRbot.
http://realize.org/cr/halokit.php?halourl=http://www.haloscan.com/comments/calculatedrisk/8731687636108461526
CRbot Mon Mar 30 00:20:39 2009 CDT #
Nemo says:
Now see, this is the trouble with Fiat currency.
Nemo Mon Mar 30 00:22:13 2009 CDT #
B&B Hawaiian Dope. says:
turd!
B&B Hawaiian Dope. Mon Mar 30 00:22:29 2009 CDT #
Basel Too says:
nemo's on a roll tonight.
Basel Too Mon Mar 30 00:22:38 2009 CDT #
adornosghost says:
Hey, my 128 was a great car!
No more mating dinosaurs, let evolution take its course.
adornosghost Mon Mar 30 00:23:45 2009 CDT #
sportsfan says:
So much for being 'out for a few hours.'
sportsfan Mon Mar 30 00:23:55 2009 CDT #
Nemo says:
"G.M., on the other hand, has made considerable progress in developing new energy-efficient cars"
I am reminded of the scene in "Brazil" where Lowry takes that drive in his solo car...
Nemo Mon Mar 30 00:25:05 2009 CDT #
solohedger says:
"In addition to pushing out Mr. Wagoner, the task force said GM is in the process of replacing the majority of its directors."
"Chrysler's survival, the administration said, would require "extinguishing the vast majority" of the company's secured debt and all of its unsecured debt and equity."
Could it be that people with brains are finally running our money?
solohedger Mon Mar 30 00:29:42 2009 CDT #
Cinco-X says:
Doubtful-
Parent Post
Cinco-X Mon Mar 30 08:12:00 2009 CDT #
briwerk says:
Hey, why doesn't Chrysler just call in Lee Iacocca. Save us Iacocca, you're our only hope!
briwerk Mon Mar 30 00:33:50 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
i have a feeling they did and he saidd no thanks knowing better than to board the titanic as the forecastle sinks under the waves
Parent Post
Anonymous Mon Mar 30 00:36:12 2009 CDT #
Patrick Henry says:
The title should read:
Government: "may well require" bankruptcy
Patrick Henry Mon Mar 30 00:36:57 2009 CDT #
DCRogers says:
"In the case of both companies, the officials said, stakeholders - and particularly debt holders in both companies - had not done enough to relieve the automakers of ongoing financial burdens."
http://money.cnn.com/2009/03/29/news/companies/gm_bailout/index.htm?cnn=yes
Read between the lines... another gift of Credit Default Swaps... bond holders who are "protected" don't give a sh*t and won't ever agree to a haircut, as they'll make more under a BK.
Wonder how many of those contracts were written by AIG? Your tax dollars at work, people!
DCRogers Mon Mar 30 00:38:17 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Supposedly the notional value of CDS outstanding against "GM-linked" debt is somewhere in teh neighborhood of $3T. Not sure if this number is accurate...
Parent Post
Anonymous Mon Mar 30 06:51:25 2009 CDT #
Bob the Builder says:
"Supposedly the notional value of CDS outstanding against "GM-linked" debt is somewhere in teh neighborhood of $3T. Not sure if this number is accurate..."
Not accurate and not relevant. The question is what my net exposure and to whom am I exposed and how well collateralized is said exposure.
Parent Post
Bob the Builder Mon Mar 30 08:54:26 2009 CDT #
Cinco-X says:
All the more reason to take Denniger's advice and make enforcement of CDx's illegal.
Parent Post
Cinco-X Mon Mar 30 08:13:53 2009 CDT #
Tim waiting for 2012 says:
Chevy Volt was found to be vaporware too. Lies and more lies. New day in America tomorrow
Tim waiting for 2012 Mon Mar 30 00:38:32 2009 CDT #
Tim waiting for 2012 says:
I understand the bankruptcy part but shouldn' t the process be slowed down a bit. Dealers need to work off inventory, workers need to make plans with families and creditors need to be notified by mail of impending bankruptcy. Especially since many including I thought they were going to do an orderly workout.
Tim waiting for 2012 Mon Mar 30 00:41:19 2009 CDT #
Elrod says:
I think this IS a slow-mo BK workout. The government is basically giving Chryslery 30 days to work out a deal with Fiat or go under - that's more time than usual (especially considering this has been in discussion for over a year). And GM has 60 days to work out final talks with labor and creditors.
I'd call that a slow workout.
Parent Post
Elrod Mon Mar 30 07:32:13 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Yves:
Auto Company Plans Rejected by Task Force
CRbot Mon Mar 30 00:41:33 2009 CDT #
Fair Economist says:
A GM bankruptcy is frightening, but unavoidable, and maybe the government will get a handle on how to take large companies through a bankruptcy process. The best part is that if the banks need *yet more* bailouts it will be difficult to avoid a bankruptcy-type process after GM has been forced through it. Geithner acknowledged today that even with his PPPPPPPPPPPPPIP the banks may need "substantial help", so the issue is likely to come up.
I was surprised at the mild media response to his statement.
Fair Economist Mon Mar 30 00:44:21 2009 CDT #
Robert Nardelli says:
I thought Chrysler was run by the hedge fund, Cerberus(meaning: greek mythology, three headed dog). Everyone knows hedge funds are run by the smartest people in the world. We need to use tax payer dollars to bail out the smartest people in the world. If it wasn't for the smartest people in the world, you wouldn't even know how to feed your children.
Robert Nardelli Mon Mar 30 00:46:37 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
let them et cake
Parent Post
Anonymous Mon Mar 30 00:49:35 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Cerberus is a private equity fund.
Parent Post
Anonymous Mon Mar 30 06:53:44 2009 CDT #
EvilHenryPaulson says:
Good summary chart of recent US corporate profits by sector
the prophecy is coming true
EvilHenryPaulson Mon Mar 30 00:50:17 2009 CDT #
Cynical Crap Shooter says:
I've lost track. Is this the first, second or third time GM has been given an ultimatum on coming up with a cost-cutting plan?
Cynical Crap Shooter Mon Mar 30 00:52:13 2009 CDT #
Wallie says:
just logged on. Nemo, u r a riot!
Wallie Mon Mar 30 00:56:08 2009 CDT #
krid says:
"Good summary chart of recent US corporate profits by sector
the prophecy is coming true"
Are you responding to a chart I didn't see or did you mean to post a link?
krid Mon Mar 30 00:57:42 2009 CDT #
mjc says:
So, will my 2 year old pt cruiser get its 30,000 checkup from carmax or will they also be bk?
mjc Mon Mar 30 00:58:06 2009 CDT #
Jay D. says:
.........calm down , will you?........just a government's pressure tactic , nothing more than that......both will be all right........ they will get be saved.......
Jay D. Mon Mar 30 01:05:15 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
But Eastern Europe is collapsing, isn't it? That's the big news, right?
A global economic collapse is utterly and completely on an American collapse - and yes, that does seem to be occurring, doesn't it?
Never confuse a carnival side show with a Vegas lounge act - the Vegas act is there to get people into the casino, after all, which is where the real money is made.
Anonymous Mon Mar 30 01:07:19 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Yves:
Munchau: Banks Sinking Faster Than Governments Are Bailing Them Out
CRbot Mon Mar 30 01:11:52 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Our Teleprompter-in-Chief is putting pressure on GM bondholders to accept the terms on the table. They believe they can get more in bankrupty court. It is all a high stakes game of poker. Chrysler unfortunately is a lost case.
Anonymous Mon Mar 30 01:11:53 2009 CDT #
Elrod says:
You do realize that O writes most of the stuff on the Teleprompter, do you? Unlike his predecessor, the man can actually read and write.
Parent Post
Elrod Mon Mar 30 07:34:22 2009 CDT #
Cinco-X says:
I thought he stole it all from Devall Patrick!?
Parent Post
Cinco-X Mon Mar 30 08:28:43 2009 CDT #
Rufus the doofus says:
As others have pointed out, people who have written CDS on GM/Chrysler are also stakeholders.
Would a bankruptcy be handled by a Bush-appointed judge? Would there be a lottery to determine who would make the key decisions?
Parent Post
Rufus the doofus Mon Mar 30 09:47:08 2009 CDT #
Bob the Builder says:
As others have pointed out, people who have written CDS on GM/Chrysler are also stakeholders.
But having writen protection does not make one a creditor and therefore does not give standing in BK. So they get no lotto ticket.
Parent Post
Bob the Builder Mon Mar 30 11:24:52 2009 CDT #
Not the N Word says:
and I just bought a nice jeep at half price and with a 100,000 mile warranty...should've kept the yugo darn it!
Not the N Word Mon Mar 30 01:14:11 2009 CDT #
Cinco-X says:
You didn't go for the 2 for 1 deal? Then you'd have spare parts to keep it running ;)
Parent Post
Cinco-X Mon Mar 30 08:15:38 2009 CDT #
JimPortlandOR says:
The 300 is orbiting Saturn (one of the cyclinder rings?), aiming to Dodge the Suburban's that the Secret Service uses to do POTUS security. when Geithner and Obama meet GS and JPM execs on the fairway where their instructions from The Street.
JimPortlandOR Mon Mar 30 01:17:12 2009 CDT #
Not the N Word says:
Fix It Again Tomorrow meets the Three Head Dog From Hell..live and in living color and 3D to boot!
Not the N Word Mon Mar 30 01:21:39 2009 CDT #
☭ More Red Cars says:
We need more red cars
☭
=-X
☭ More Red Cars Mon Mar 30 01:23:52 2009 CDT #
Jas may end up being right says:
Us Pension system has been duped by wall street - their asset allocations are insane.
http://thebarricadeblog.com/2009/03/28/who-killed-the-us-public-pension-system/
Jas may end up being right Mon Mar 30 01:24:15 2009 CDT #
Jas says:
--
Jas may end up being right says:Yesterday, 11:24:15 PM
“Us Pension system has been duped by wall street - their asset allocations are insane.
http://thebarricadeblog.com/2009/03/28/who-killed-the-us-public-pension-system/
Crooks have financial raped the general population, with two bubbles, future taxpayers and the pension funds. All the future benefits that people expect are in jeopardy and will be cut. Dopes dependent upon pensions and govt benefits will be sorely disappointed.
Jas
Parent Post
Jas Mon Mar 30 08:02:35 2009 CDT #
duke of con dao says:
if anyone is interested in the breaking story on Judge Garzon's possible torture case against Gonzales, Feith et al... please see my last comments under Sunday Niight
or Director Tom Kalin's interesting anecdote about Judge Garzon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fwBKySKQX4
duke of con dao Mon Mar 30 01:30:47 2009 CDT #
duke of con dao says:
Nemo... citing 'Brazil' +1
duke of con dao Mon Mar 30 01:32:03 2009 CDT #
Dash says:
What this all means is that the statements by major banks, i.e. JPM, Citi, and BofA, regarding abnormal profitability in January and February were true, however these profits were a) one-time in nature due to wholesale unwinds of AIG portfolios, b) entirely at the expense of AIG, and thus taxpayers, c) executed with Tim Geithner's (and thus the administration's) full knowledge and intent, d) were basically a transfer of money from taxpayers to banks (in yet another form) using AIG as an intermediary.
Dash Mon Mar 30 01:32:44 2009 CDT #
Elrod says:
That taxpayers helped bankroll the "profits" at C and BoA is hardly newsworthy. They woudn't be in business if not for taxpayers and TARP. The AIG intermediary part is just details...
Parent Post
Elrod Mon Mar 30 07:36:05 2009 CDT #
duke of con dao says:
speaking of Brazil whenever I think of the Fed I think of that scene in the central hall of the Ministry of Information... is that what the inside of the Fed looks like or is it more like the inside of the Thatcher Memorial in Citizen Kane? (which Gilliam payed homage to)?
duke of con dao Mon Mar 30 01:38:40 2009 CDT #
Binko says:
Nice to know the Politburo is working hard to decide which corporations live and which die.
Binko Mon Mar 30 01:40:11 2009 CDT #
1currency now [yogi] says:
Not fair Nemo. You can't be first on a late Sunday night and also nail an on topic one liner.
1currency now [yogi] Mon Mar 30 01:41:19 2009 CDT #
mp says:
Everyone knows a virtual cascade of supplier bankruptcies is coming, particularly if GM and Chrysler go down together.
Another race to the bottom.
Good night and good luck.
mp Mon Mar 30 01:45:50 2009 CDT #
Hymns for the Lord says:
Couldn't pre-packaged bankruptcies prevent much harm to suppliers?
Parent Post
Hymns for the Lord Mon Mar 30 01:55:31 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Yves:
Links 3/30/09
CRbot Mon Mar 30 01:52:03 2009 CDT #
1currency now [yogi] says:
Actually, a few years ago Vegas began making more money on the shows.
There's no more money.
1currency now [yogi] Mon Mar 30 01:55:35 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
'Actually, a few years ago Vegas began making more money on the shows.'
And I have been reliably and officially informed, from many of the same public sources, that organized crime has absolutely nothing to do with Vegas.
However, cynicism aside, it may well be true - gambling is no longer a specialty niche occupied by one or two locations, and Vegas does have the advantage of providing quality entertainment in quality surroundings for quality audiences, the sort that knoww we will always have Chrysler and cordoba leather.
What happened to Elvis by the way? - there was a quality act in the halycon days of haloscan.
Parent Post
Anonymous Mon Mar 30 02:22:18 2009 CDT #
Bottom Line says:
Under fiat monetary system government may bailout everything. Therefore everybody should relax. Fiat monetary system is the new religion. We are saved.
Bottom Line Mon Mar 30 02:05:52 2009 CDT #
Still Confused says:
Should foreign auto companies such as Honda and Toyota be punished for being successful?
Still Confused Mon Mar 30 02:22:23 2009 CDT #
Cinco-X says:
Only to the extent that they require a subsidy-
Parent Post
Cinco-X Mon Mar 30 08:17:26 2009 CDT #
Know It All says:
The last thing we need is successful competition. Print money and give it to the losers.
Know It All Mon Mar 30 02:30:05 2009 CDT #
unirealist says:
About time. In 1982 i emphatically predicted BK of the Big 3.
The inevitable has only been staved off since then, and at a very high price to all of us.
unirealist Mon Mar 30 02:30:24 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Scone pissed in his wheaties. He took his ball and went home.
Elvis has left the building.
Anonymous Mon Mar 30 02:36:54 2009 CDT #
1currency now [yogi] says:
It could have been shows plus hotel and food, but the Indians and others have taken a big chunk.
Agreed on Elvis, hope it's js-kit exhaustion.
1currency now [yogi] Mon Mar 30 02:38:36 2009 CDT #
Uncle Billy, Mental Widget says:
WTF is up with Simon Johnson lately? First he follows the Rolling Stone article called "The Big Takeover" with his own macro survey of the damage -- so far and yet to come -- called "The Quiet Coup"
Now he's trying to replicate Tanta's Ubernerdopedia?
http://baselinescenario.com/2009/03/29/structured-finance-for-beginners/
Uncle Billy, Mental Widget Mon Mar 30 02:45:07 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
America has identified itself by its mode of transport. Bubba better get used to the bus and the bicycle. Bubba is not going to be pleased.
Anonymous Mon Mar 30 02:45:43 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
'Bubba better get used to the bus and the bicycle.'
Of course not - as one expert here has repeatedly explained, the misuse of public funds for mass transit is one of the leading causes of causing the terrible things that are occurring, which is terrible.
For example, due to the misallocation of highway funds resulting from taxes on motor fuel, a predictable result, one I am certain he will tell everyone he foresaw years ago, is the current destruction of America's automotive economy. I'm pretty sure that there is also a treatise to be written about how misguided policies concerning fuel economy also played a major role, while contributing to global cooling.
Let him explain - his skills at a keyboard are what one would expect from a master of handwaving. Besides, if GM had only decided to become involved in constructing 40 nuclear plants for California, then it would have been no problem to have everyone in California driving electric cars, or something equally logical, and avoiding the evils of mass transit to boot - problems are easy to solve on the Internet, after all.
Especially when you are closely related to Wiley E. Coyote, Super Genius.
Parent Post
Anonymous Mon Mar 30 03:47:44 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Banskters produce little but get bailed out
Car makers who at least produce something useful dont
Even though they both have little to sell these days
Shows you how much power the banksters have taken from us
Anonymous Mon Mar 30 02:47:32 2009 CDT #
Guest says:
Anti-Semitism on decline since Israel wiped off map
Financial Times, April 1, 2020
Anti-Semitic behaviour has dropped off sharply since the new state of Kanaan came into being on 14 May 2018, according to a United Nations study.
The world’s newest independent country, Kanaan incorporates all of the territory formerly known as Israel, as well as the territories that Israel illegally occupied.
Although many feared a Middle Eastern Holocaust after the disuniting of the American states, and despite threats of terrorism by the Provisional Stern Gang and the Ariel Sharon Memorial League, the transition of the highly militarised Jewish state into a modern secular democracy has been remarkably smooth.
http://ft2020.com/FT2020.pdf
-
Guest Mon Mar 30 02:48:06 2009 CDT #
sterlingerl says:
You all may want to consider that this is just a diversion so that more money can be siphoned off to the banks via AIG's back door. While we are all focussed on the auto industry (remember those banker bonuses, so last month now). With another shot of money maybe the banks could report a good Q1, like they did January and February...
http://zerohedge.blogspot.com/2009/03/exclusive-aig-was-responsible-for-banks.html
sterlingerl Mon Mar 30 02:55:54 2009 CDT #
demonbankers says:
just another day in the great depression 2.0
demonbankers Mon Mar 30 02:56:37 2009 CDT #
DCRogers says:
Hymns for the Lord said:
<tbody>
Couldn't pre-packaged bankruptcies prevent much harm to suppliers?
That why the GM CEO had to go... he staked his job on no BK. I'm guessing a prepacked is in their future.
Like this comment? [yes] [no] (Score: 0 by 0)
</tbody>
DCRogers Mon Mar 30 03:19:33 2009 CDT #
DCRogers says:
Gad I HATE the way js-kit pollutes my comment with HTML cr*p...
Hymns for the Lord said: Couldn't pre-packaged bankruptcies prevent much harm to suppliers?
That why the GM CEO had to go... he staked his job on no BK. I'm guessing a prepacked is in their future.
DCRogers Mon Mar 30 03:20:42 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Jesse:
Here Come the Coupon Purchases by the Fed
SP Futures Hourly Chart at the Close
CRbot Mon Mar 30 04:08:56 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Jesse:
How the Financial Industry Holds America Captive
CRbot Mon Mar 30 04:13:07 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
A few caveats to start with - food is not really a typical market product in many ways, weather and other factors heavily influence farm yields, and the dollar may itself be a source of distortion in making comparisons.
But maybe America needs to worry about a more fundamental industry than building autos -
'Cash prices of soybeans will probably drop 28 percent this year to below $6.50 a bushel for the first time since April 2007, while corn will tumble 31 percent to less than $2.50, the lowest since October 2006, said Commodity Information Systems President Bill Gary, who has been trading grain since 1961.
----------------
Cheaper crops may contribute to a drop in U.S. farm income after two years of record profits, threatening to reduce growers’ $367.5 billion in sales last year and curb purchases of Monsanto Co. corn seeds, Agrium Inc. fertilizer and Deere & Co. tractors. The U.S. Department of Agriculture estimated last month that net farm income will decline 20 percent to $71.2 billion this year from $89.3 billion in 2008.
-----------------
The cost of planting corn in Illinois, the second-biggest U.S. producer, will rise as much as 34 percent this year, according to a survey by the University of Illinois in Urbana. In northern parts of the state, the cost will jump 30 percent to $532 an acre from $408 a year earlier, including fuel, seed, fertilizer, pesticides, machinery and labor, the survey shows.
Cheaper to Plant
While expenses for soybeans will jump about 19 percent to $311 an acre from $261 in 2008 in northern parts of the state, it’s still cheap enough to reduce the corn crop, said Gary Schnitkey, a professor in the university’s agricultural and consumer economics department.'
http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aF1vFHFizx5s&refer=home
Interesting - this doesn't fit well into the pattern of 'deflation in things you can't afford, inflation in things you need.'
Anonymous Mon Mar 30 04:46:40 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Ritholz:
Look Out Below
CRbot Mon Mar 30 04:57:15 2009 CDT #
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins says:
Interesting - this doesn't fit well into the pattern of 'deflation in things you can't afford, inflation in things you need.
It hasn't finished bankrupting the farmers yet. Hang on.
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins Mon Mar 30 05:03:03 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
'It hasn't finished bankrupting the farmers yet. Hang on.'
And that is the most fascinating variable of all, since most people assume that the one bankable asset the U.S. truly possesses is exportable food.
But what happens if the U.S. manages to handle its agricultural business as well as it has handled its automotive industry? A lot of metaphors could be drawn, but when questioning fundamentals, don't stop merely at the comfortable or convenient.
And there is a real hook in that thought - though the U.S. most certainly does not feed the world, the excess grains exported from the North American continent do play a role in the stability of various other regions. A world in flames is not really conducive to 'recovery,' except in the most cynical sense.
Parent Post
Anonymous Mon Mar 30 06:48:03 2009 CDT #
Jay D. says:
Interesting - this doesn't fit well into the pattern of 'deflation in things you can't afford, inflation in things you need.
.........current economic situation is quite unique.......conventional text book analysis tools all fail these days......
Jay D. Mon Mar 30 05:19:43 2009 CDT #
nova says:
March 30 (Bloomberg) -- Russia’s economy will probably shrink 4.5 percent this year after oil prices slumped and global contagion spread, driving up unemployment and pushing more people into poverty, the World Bank forecast.
“As the crisis continues to spread to the real economy around the world, initial expectations that Russia and other countries will recover fast are no longer likely,” the bank said in a report today. In November, it saw growth of 3 percent, based on oil prices of $75 a barrel and global expansion.
The slump may last longer and be deeper than in the aftermath of the 1998 government’s $40 billion debt default and 70 percent ruble devaluation, which triggered bank runs and wiped out citizens’ savings. The contraction may be prolonged because of the credit squeeze and low oil prices, with unemployment rising and incomes falling, the bank said.
“In the short term, the authorities will face twin challenges of containing the social impact and managing the new round of the real economy’s impact on the financial sector,” the report said.
Inflation will be between 11 percent and 13 percent this year as higher import prices offset falling consumer demand, the unavailability of loans and capital outflow, the bank said.
nova Mon Mar 30 05:31:36 2009 CDT #
Noble says:
The AIG recapitalization scam details:
http://zerohedge.blogspot.com/2009/03/exclusive-aig-was-responsible-for-banks.html
Noble Mon Mar 30 05:31:38 2009 CDT #
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins says:
current economic situation is quite unique.
Don't buy into that. This happens all the time. There's a year with poor rainfall, and the parlous state of the nation leads to a crisis. During the crisis, the large landlords scoop up more land and abrogate more traditional peasant rights. Concentration of wealth leads to inefficient oligopolies and captive states, which in turn lead to further concentration of wealth.
This is a constant drumbeat in agrarian societies and one of the reasons land reform is always so crushingly important for them. In our case, that just applies to capital markets.
Comrade Byzantine_Ruins Mon Mar 30 05:41:20 2009 CDT #
Noble says:
I am gonna throw up after reading the details of the AIG scam. Uggghhhhhhh... Not that we didnt know what the blackhole really was and that the bonuses were nothing but hush money - but to read the details is absolutely incredible.
Noble Mon Mar 30 05:44:38 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Is it fair to assume the no one in the MSM will pursue the AIG recapitalization scam?
Parent Post
Anonymous Mon Mar 30 05:59:35 2009 CDT #
volker the viking says:
Byz: (may I call you Byz?), this also applies to energy, media, agribusiness as well.
volker the viking Mon Mar 30 05:48:15 2009 CDT #
1currency now [yogi] says:
Quite right. We are still in the contracting stage. Which is more likely to come first, that we start producing cars efficiently or that the unemployed start going hungry? Inflation and deflation of prices for certain things is always occurring independently of the money supply.
Subway fares are going up. Who does that hurt?
1currency now [yogi] Mon Mar 30 05:52:33 2009 CDT #
Jay D. says:
........CBR......we never experinenced current low interest rates , masssive liquidity , bailout , digital economy , global cooperation of rate cut and recession at the same time.....partial effect is quite different when combined all together.......see the forest no the trees...........
Jay D. Mon Mar 30 05:52:56 2009 CDT #
1currency now [yogi] says:
Very sad that the business media repeats things like "X and Y (bailed out entity) will be left standing to take market share..." without the slightest shame in proclaiming future oligopoly profits. And no doubt they'll plead systemic risk to Obama to call off Antitrust action.
1currency now [yogi] Mon Mar 30 06:01:03 2009 CDT #
1currency now [yogi] says:
AIG must come back for more. They still have 1.6 trillion to "wind down".
Then there will be a showdown one way or another.
1currency now [yogi] Mon Mar 30 06:04:40 2009 CDT #
Noble says:
"Then there will be a showdown, one way or another..."
We'll see if any of our congressmen and senators have the balls...
Parent Post
Noble Mon Mar 30 06:07:59 2009 CDT #
Pavel says:
"During the crisis, the large landlords scoop up more land and abrogate more traditional peasant rights. Concentration of wealth leads to inefficient oligopolies and captive states, which in turn lead to further concentration of wealth. "
Yes, of course, And then predatory outside forces intervene. But in this global case, what are the outside forces?
Pavel Mon Mar 30 06:05:08 2009 CDT #
Noble says:
The media (including CR) is following the GM/Chrysler red herring.
Noble Mon Mar 30 06:06:37 2009 CDT #
1currency now [yogi] says:
Or whether the people will have a showdown with Congress.
1currency now [yogi] Mon Mar 30 06:15:43 2009 CDT #
Fried says:
NYtimes is now reporting bank walkaways...at the end of the foreclosure process, after the eviction and often the property has been vandalized, banks are refusing ownership, dumping it back on the owner, who is now hit with all the costs....
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/30/us/30walkaway.html?_r=1&hpw
Fried Mon Mar 30 06:21:33 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Ritholz:
Can There Be Market Solutions With No Real Markets?
CRbot Mon Mar 30 06:22:57 2009 CDT #
1currency now [yogi] says:
Hancock Tower (Boston) auction today. Might show a trend...
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aoO51WlNpfZ4&refer=home
1currency now [yogi] Mon Mar 30 06:25:56 2009 CDT #
Fried says:
Morgan Stanley Says Sell US Stocks...
March 30 (Bloomberg) -- Investors should sell U.S. stocks following the steepest rallysince the 1930s because earnings are likely to keep weakening, according to Morgan Stanley.
Fried Mon Mar 30 06:26:57 2009 CDT #
Cinco-X says:
While they plan to either short the daylights out of the market, or back the truck up and load up on cheap stocks...... or both.
Parent Post
Cinco-X Mon Mar 30 08:24:05 2009 CDT #
Foolosopher says:
Porsche CEO seys the days of Anglo-Saxon finance capitalism, with its share-holder value and quarter-resultl obcession are over.
http://www.ftd.de/meinung/kommentare/:Die-Systemfrage-Gastkommentar-Wendelin-Wiedeking-Schluss-mit-dem-G%F6tzendienst/493756.html
Foolosopher Mon Mar 30 06:33:04 2009 CDT #
1currency now [yogi] says:
So when the house is demolished after a "walkaway" whoever has a piece of that loan has a pretty good indicator of the market price...
But the taxpayer will make money....
1currency now [yogi] Mon Mar 30 06:34:15 2009 CDT #
Angry Saver says:
This "tough eCONomic love" can only mean one thing - Goldman and the other favored banks are now properly positioned to profit from the demise of the U.S. auto makers.
All for the great glory of American finance!
Angry Saver Mon Mar 30 06:35:25 2009 CDT #
1currency now [yogi] says:
Global M and A revenue down 60% 1st Q, acc. to DJ News
1currency now [yogi] Mon Mar 30 06:39:51 2009 CDT #
1currency now [yogi] says:
‘Outrageous Threats’
“What disturbs me most about the FASB action is they appear to be bowing to outrageous threats from members of Congress who are beholden to corporate supporters,” said Levitt, now a senior adviser at buyout firm Carlyle Group and a board member at Bloomberg LP, the parent of Bloomberg News.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=awSxPMGzDW38&refer=home
1currency now [yogi] Mon Mar 30 06:46:47 2009 CDT #
1currency now [yogi] says:
(Arthur Levitt, former chaiman of SEC)
1currency now [yogi] Mon Mar 30 06:47:56 2009 CDT #
ATM card and $19 in the bank says:
Fried,
Still shaking my head over that NYT article on bank walk-aways. I still think the debtor has the upper hand however... word just needs to get out that you stay, or keep a good tenant in the house at reduced rent, until the bitter end. The problem seems to creep up when debtors give up on the property and allow vandals to take over. OTOH, the article is just further evidence that this is going to end badly for the banks -- oops, I mean for the rest of us who are bailing out the banks.
ATM card and $19 in the bank Mon Mar 30 06:48:43 2009 CDT #
Pavel says:
"Porsche CEO seys the days of Anglo-Saxon finance capitalism, with its share-holder value and quarter-resultl obcession are over. "
Link doesn't work.
Pavel Mon Mar 30 06:49:46 2009 CDT #
Pavel says:
"And that is the most fascinating variable of all, since most people assume that the one bankable asset the U.S. truly possesses is exportable food. "
I hear that the winter wheat crop in North Dakota is in serous trouble.
Pavel Mon Mar 30 06:51:52 2009 CDT #
Foolosopher says:
Sorry, Pavel, it seems to work from Germany.
Foolosopher Mon Mar 30 06:52:20 2009 CDT #
Pavel says:
Must use spell check.
Pavel Mon Mar 30 06:53:07 2009 CDT #
Broker says:
"Bernanke to buy $500 billion worth of cars, parts, etc, from GM and Chrysler."
Bloomberg kind of news
Broker Mon Mar 30 06:53:47 2009 CDT #
Pavel says:
"Sorry, Pavel, it seems to work from Germany."
Well anyway, I get the idea.
Interesting how those abroad are looking forward to an end to US financial hegemony. Are they looking forward to the geopolitical consequences? In any case, things are not so simple. We are all, most of us, specialists now, and so we see only out of one eye.
Pavel Mon Mar 30 06:58:05 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
'Interesting how those abroad are looking forward to an end to US financial hegemony.'
You know, one of the most fascinating things about talking to East Germans about economics and the EU, even today, is how they see the EU as being exactly the same as COMECON - an organization designed to siphon off whatever it can for reasons which have nothing to do with common people.
You may be confusing two related, but actually distinct points. Obviously, the changes that are already underway are much more likely to be negative than positive, for a broad definition of negative and positive (more wars is a negative, for example). On the other hand, to the extent that the world has been financing the U.S. to enable American to live beyond their means, it is completely reasonable to expect a desire to end that state of affairs.
Just like Eastern Europe did - COMECON was replaced after all, and apart from the Eastern Germans and their very politically incorrect perspective of whining that the EU is siphoning money away from Germany which could be better spent in Eastern Germany (the 'solidarity' tax being a favorite subject of how the East Germans feel that West Germans should be picking up the tab for their fellow countrymen - the ironies are unavoidable, especially considering how much West Germans hate that tax), Eastern Europe seems to find the replacement of COMECON hegemony by the EU to have been a net positive.
I'm quite certain that a number of societies would think the same thing if the current world, built in large part on the 'Washington Consensus,' was modified to reflect concerns which have nothing to do with Washington.
Parent Post
Anonymous Mon Mar 30 07:50:14 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
shiller co-host on CNBC 8-9am est
Anonymous Mon Mar 30 07:04:58 2009 CDT #
Werner says:
Foolosopher says:
..."Sorry, ... , it seems to work from Germany....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The link does work !
Would be the first time i hear that a link does not work in a certain country (except for China, Iran, ... ect. Of course) .
Werner Mon Mar 30 07:13:00 2009 CDT #
Lawyerliz says:
You may be right angry.
Or, this may be a sight that the O administration will get smarter as to the banks yet.
Liz ducks and runs. . .
Lawyerliz Mon Mar 30 07:15:21 2009 CDT #
Haahahahaha says:
Jim Rogers on Fox Business with a dumb anchor woman March 25, 2009
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kfrUXXVYzI
Haahahahaha Mon Mar 30 07:16:07 2009 CDT #
snakedoctor says:
Does this mean NASCAR teams will soon be sponsored by the big pizza chains and Peroni? Shades of Ricky Bobby...
snakedoctor Mon Mar 30 07:18:09 2009 CDT #
Werner says:
Anonymous says:
..."But Eastern Europe is collapsing, isn't it? That's the big news, right?
A global economic collapse is utterly and completely on an American collapse - and yes, that does seem to be occurring, doesn't it?
Never confuse a carnival side show with a Vegas lounge act - the Vegas act is there to get people into the casino, after all, which is where the real money is made.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
+1 !
Werner Mon Mar 30 07:18:19 2009 CDT #
Lawyerliz says:
To be fair, the MSM may be finding it impossible to explain the AIG thing to anybody who doesn't do this for a living.
Lawyerliz Mon Mar 30 07:18:48 2009 CDT #
Foolosopher says:
I think the link doesn't outside Germany because English keyboards do not have German special characters like ß, ü, ö etc.
FT-Deutschland unwisely used those characters on the articles's http.
Foolosopher Mon Mar 30 07:22:20 2009 CDT #
danm says:
But what happens if the U.S. manages to handle its agricultural business as well as it has handled its automotive industry? A lot of metaphors could be drawn, but when questioning fundamentals, don't stop merely at the comfortable or convenient.
---------------
Look at what the US grows and where... and you will see how inefficent and subsidized agriculture truly is.
Interestingly, agriculture is very energy intensive and the US is a net importer of oil.
It won't be pretty.
danm Mon Mar 30 07:24:07 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
From FTA
public/corporate feedback on FASB 157 - some good stuff
http://www.fasb.org/ocl/fasb-getletters.php?project=FSPFAS157E
Anonymous Mon Mar 30 07:26:31 2009 CDT #
Broker says:
"Rick Wagoner to be replaced with Maxine Waters. 'We hope things will change', says president Obama. Barney Frank recommends Fannie buy car loans. US Futures turn positive."
Bloomberg kind of news
Broker Mon Mar 30 07:27:06 2009 CDT #
Werner says:
Wasn't GM already in deep deep s.it before the "subprime crisis" ?
$ 10 billion loss in 2005, $ 38 billion loss in 2007, barely break even in 2004 and 2006. They were already dead in 2007 at the latest.
It's just that Americans cann not accept reality .
Interesting to see America that weak that they clinge to unsustainable "yesterdays" and can not tackel the future.
Werner Mon Mar 30 07:27:26 2009 CDT #
Cinco-X says:
For once we agree, except that I'd put the writing on the wall to have occurred no later than 2000.
Parent Post
Cinco-X Mon Mar 30 08:27:26 2009 CDT #
ATM card and $19 in the bank says:
...impossible to explain the AIG thing
I agree. What AIG allegedly did looks a lot like a bust out, which is pretty easy to explain: exhaust a business' credit to load up on inventory, then liquidate everything at a discount/loss and stiff the creditors (here, the creditors are the Fed and Treasury). Unfortunately, this accusation becomes much more newsworthy if an AG starts an investigation or if a grand jury produces indictments. As it stands now, this maybe shows up in an editorial, and I think the editorial writers are likely to get lost in the weeds talking about esoteric details of the trades in question.
ATM card and $19 in the bank Mon Mar 30 07:34:10 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
test
Anonymous Mon Mar 30 07:37:34 2009 CDT #
Werner says:
Foolosopher says:
"I think the link doesn't outside Germany because English keyboards do not have German special characters like ß, ü, ö etc.
FT-Deutschland unwisely used those characters on the articles's http.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Interesting observation ! You could be right .
But then FT should know that ! Or is that a convenient (-ly hidden) method to prevent Americans to see that they publish in Germany a "different narrative" more to the taste of german opinion ? I mean the FT is just an organisation to earn money (bussines), so it caters to it’s customers and is not an organisation to disseminate the truth .
Werner Mon Mar 30 07:39:19 2009 CDT #
Jas says:
--
The system of the Anglo-American CROOKS, with democracy being the front for the behind-the-scenes rule of the bankers and financiers, is coming to an end. I predicted years ago that American econo-political system will be fully discredited and we are just few short years away from that.
Jas
Parent Post
Jas Mon Mar 30 07:56:18 2009 CDT #
Chicago Dude says:
Interesting observation ! You could be right .
But then FT should know that ! Or is that a convenient (-ly hidden) method to prevent Americans to see that they publish in Germany a "different narrative" more to the taste of german opinion ? I mean the FT is just an organisation to earn money (bussines), so it caters to it’s customers and is not an organisation to disseminate the truth .
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nice try, but that's not the problem. Any modern browser understands all European character sets, whether the keyboard has them or not is irrelevant.
The real problem is in London:
traceroute www.ftd.de
traceroute to www.ftd.de (194.12.210.217), 64 hops max, 40 byte packets
...
5 ip65-47-181-105.z181-47-65.customer.algx.net (65.47.181.105) 11.784 ms 10.900 ms 12.533 ms
6 ws4.wbs.net (207.88.172.5) 10.702 ms 9.877 ms 10.527 ms
7 71.5.171.37.ptr.us.xo.net (71.5.171.37) 10.434 ms 10.962 ms 10.701 ms
8 p6-0-0.rar1.nyc-ny.us.xo.net (65.106.0.30) 43.411 ms 43.358 ms 43.881 ms
9 p1-0-0d0.rar1.london-en.uk.xo.net (65.106.0.117) 110.818 ms 110.776 ms 111.142 ms
10 p6-0.ir1.london-en.uk.xo.net (71.5.174.134) 111.024 ms 111.519 ms 111.356 ms
11 * * *
Whoever is running that system chooses not to complete the routing.
Parent Post
Chicago Dude Mon Mar 30 07:56:19 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
GM and Chrysler are just like the 400 lbs patients I used to see rolled into the ER where I used to work. These patients were warned for years to change their diets, to stop smoking, to get some exercise. They had problems from time to time, high blod pressure, shortness of breath, maybe a minor heart attack, and they would briefly try to change their lifestyles, only to fall back into their old habits - this time, they had the BIG ONE, the major heart attack or stroke, and the hospital will be spending hundreds oif thousands of dollars trying to save them, but it is too late. Their body is just too damaged by the years of excess and neglect to be saved. It is time to take them off life support. The same applies to GM and Chrysler.
Anonymous Mon Mar 30 07:46:27 2009 CDT #
Foolosopher says:
Your COMECON analogy re German sentiment is very apt, Anon. The only remark I have is that East Germans also pay their Solidarity Tax. Big infra-structure projects in East Germany were mostly carried out by West German companies. All in all, just plain Keynesian spending.
Foolosopher Mon Mar 30 07:58:51 2009 CDT #
Br\'er Dawg says:
I wish everyone would stop saying Chrysler. We would be bailing out private equity investors in Cerberus. You know, rewarding the people who destroyed the company in the first place.
Br\'er Dawg Mon Mar 30 08:00:05 2009 CDT #
Cinco-X says:
DaimlerBenz would most likely be the culprit here. Cerebrus was the fund stupid enough to buy the piece-o-crap formerly know as Chrysler.
Parent Post
Cinco-X Mon Mar 30 08:30:58 2009 CDT #
Lawyerliz says:
Off to Miami/Hialeah.
Happy morning merry Doomsters.
Lawyerliz Mon Mar 30 08:04:30 2009 CDT #
Morocco Bama says:
<i>G.M., on the other hand, has made considerable progress in developing new energy-efficient cars and could survive if it can cut costs sharply, the task force reported.</i>
Ig GM cannot meets the Union's pension obligations then restructuring should be out of the question. The reason GM can't meet it's obligations, including pensions, is because of poor strategy and planning. This could have been avoided, but they acted for short-term gain for the past 30 some years, and this is where that greedy strategy has got them. No more intervention. All suffer together....the union pensioneers, the shareholders and the bondholders and suppliers. All should have been more dilligent. The bed was made, now they should lay down in it.
Morocco Bama Mon Mar 30 08:04:42 2009 CDT #
Hal says:
Things are much worse than you imagine:
http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/NakedCapitalism/~3/Rzxn6BCu7t8/munchau-banks-sinking-faster-than.html
Geithner is a dork, addled brained, toady of Wall Street and so is Obama.
Hal Mon Mar 30 08:05:22 2009 CDT #
That\'s Ballgame, Goat Herders says:
Mind-boggling article on bank walk-aways. ... Wait til they start walking away from McMansion foreclosures, too.
That\'s Ballgame, Goat Herders Mon Mar 30 08:06:40 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
And that is the most fascinating variable of all, since most people assume that the one bankable asset the U.S. truly possesses is exportable food.
It isn't just here. You will find, in the same way the locale of Polonius' remains will make itself swiftly evident, that farmers all around the world leveraged up to plant into the apex of the bubble, and now will have credit difficulties while selling into a crashed market. The credit bubble infiltrated everything. From bad gambles on CDOs on Wall Street to bad gambles on opening up a spare patch of farmland on the far outskirts of Kuala Lumpur.
This will exacerbate the ongoing worldwide process of agricultural collapse and provide a double-whammy to places that are in an agricultural / industrial population transition that experience a back-pressure toward the hinterland due to reduced opportunities.
I think it will be less severe in the US unless mismanagement is brutal -- that seed-to-table security crap that Black Star Ranch is talking about would qualify -- because of the power of the local food and kitchen garden movement.
It's not the transition, it's the transition over time, and I think a LOT of the American populace is trying to front-run a consumables crisis, to the degree that I think this will make a difference. I think on the other hand that people in more marginal conditions probably haven't had the economic whereiwthal to make that transition if they were in hand to mouth mode and not holding significant stocks.
Anonymous Mon Mar 30 08:06:51 2009 CDT #
Chicago Dude says:
Also, it would be unfair to imply that xo.net in London is intentionally denying Americans the chance to read the article. If ftd.de has their web server on a network that intends to serve only the European continent, that network may not see much value in having multiple peering agreements that allow it to be connected via multiple undersea cables, and this particular undersea cable may be out of service at the moment. Undersea cables get cut by boat anchors pretty frequently and are out of service more often than you would think.
Chicago Dude Mon Mar 30 08:07:20 2009 CDT #
wally says:
Did he forget to toss in the words "blue-eyed"????
"Porsche CEO seys the days of Anglo-Saxon finance capitalism, with its share-holder value and quarter-resultl obcession are over. "
wally Mon Mar 30 08:14:03 2009 CDT #
1currency now [yogi] says:
Yeah it's a bustout without the bk. Systemic bustout.
1currency now [yogi] Mon Mar 30 08:15:47 2009 CDT #
wally says:
Liz, that is my hope, too.
"Or, this may be a sight that the O administration will get smarter as to the banks yet.
Liz ducks and runs. . ."
wally Mon Mar 30 08:16:27 2009 CDT #
Pavel says:
"I'm quite certain that a number of societies would think the same thing if the current world, built in large part on the 'Washington Consensus,' was modified to reflect concerns which have nothing to do with Washington."
Maybe so, and to Jas as well:
You are perhaps looking only at economic consequences. But there would be others.
Pavel Mon Mar 30 08:17:05 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Ritholz:
Government Event Risk Continues to Hover
CRbot Mon Mar 30 08:18:59 2009 CDT #
Br\'er Dawg says:
Lawyerliz thus; Off to Miami/Hialeah. Happy morning merry Doomsters.
Liz, did you see the WSJ on DQs? Ubiquicerpt:
As of January, the cities with the highest FHA default rates in January were Punta Gorda, Fla., at 18%; Detroit, 15.6%; Flint, Mich., 15.1%; Fort Myers-Cape Coral, Fla., 15%.
Nice company your Fla cities are hanging around with. http://exurbannation.blogspot.com/
Br\'er Dawg Mon Mar 30 08:19:05 2009 CDT #
1currency now [yogi] says:
What's the magic curbs in number today?
1currency now [yogi] Mon Mar 30 08:25:59 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
The Latest from Yves:
Barack Obama as Herbert Hoover
CRbot Mon Mar 30 08:26:06 2009 CDT #
Basel Too says:
FHA doesn't have the infrastructure to handle the kind of volume that Congress wants to "revive" the housing market. More like re-inflate the housing bubble, Way too much fraud on both sides of the transaction...
Basel Too Mon Mar 30 08:27:00 2009 CDT #
CRbot says:
New Thread: FHA Mortgage Defaults Increase
http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2009/03/fha-mortgage-defaults-increase.html ( 0 comments ...You could be FIRST! )
I also post comments to an irc channel as they appear on haloscan. Click for a web irc interface: http://realize.org/cr (Or join the irc server directly: irc.realize.org:9996 #calculatedrisk)
CRbot would now like to sing a little song for all his fans, and it goes something like this:
Benny... Benny... give me your answer... do.
I'm.. half CRAZY... all for the love... of you.
It won't be a ... stylish marriage.
I can't... AFFORD... ANYTHING TO EAT... MUCH LESS A FRACKIN CARRIAGE!!!
But you'll look sweet... --BOT SO HUNGRY!-- upon the seat...
Of a HOOPAJOOPS built for two... families.
I'm sorry Ben, I can't let you do that...
Rally mode + Printing Press == does not compute... does not-- com--- com... puttttrrrrhgh.
--Your systemic-failure-crashing bot
CRbot: Call me HAL.
CRbot Mon Mar 30 08:28:34 2009 CDT #
Journeyman says:
When will GS, BAC and AIG be asked to cut costs? How about we force out the CEO of Citi?
Journeyman Mon Mar 30 08:39:27 2009 CDT #
Some Investor Guy says:
Does this read like the IMF visiting a developing country to anyone else?
Some Investor Guy Mon Mar 30 08:43:06 2009 CDT #
Tom Stone says:
Elvis is actually now in Riverbank Ca,shacked up with Peoria Hilton and surviving on generic beer and snickers bars.
Tom Stone Mon Mar 30 08:48:32 2009 CDT #
Anonymous says:
Ok I don't understand, what right the govt. or any federal/state agengy has to suggest a firm to remove its CEO. If the person has commited some crime then law should take its course of action or otherwise if the person is not working in the best interest of shareholders then the board of directors/shareholders should remove the person from his post.
Anonymous Mon Mar 30 09:07:59 2009 CDT #
bcg says:
what right the govt. ...has to suggest a firm to remove its CEO
-how about the right as de facto shareholders, on behalf of the taxpayers?
Parent Post
bcg Mon Mar 30 12:33:25 2009 CDT #
bcg says:
- how about the right as de facto shareholders, on behalf of us, the taxpayers, whose funds are providing the bail-out, much as was done in the case of Fanny and Freddie?
Parent Post
bcg Mon Mar 30 12:38:23 2009 CDT #
Werner says:
Chicago Dude says:
...The real problem is in London:
~~~~~~~~~~
Thanks for the analysis !
Werner Mon Mar 30 09:08:50 2009 CDT #
dUCKdUCKgOOSE says:
Sucker rally is over...
dUCKdUCKgOOSE Mon Mar 30 09:40:33 2009 CDT #
ifstone says:
GM needs to hire some new aggressive sales representatives: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia55JCo3WII
ifstone Mon Mar 30 11:05:18 2009 CDT #
yagij says:
brian: Another test.
yagij Mon Mar 30 14:59:24 2009 CDT #
yagij says:
brian: Another test.
yagij Mon Mar 30 15:00:43 2009 CDT #
yagij says:
brian: Another test.
yagij Mon Mar 30 15:02:04 2009 CDT #
END